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230 Comments
- dafoe, on 11/16/2009, -20/+291WTF, the guy could not find a windows PC/laptop to take the test on. For the gods sake he could have gone to a library near by to take the test. Why would he need to wait for the company to ship him a laptop.
I am a dev and admin who works on Debian linux at work and home, but I would not survive being this inflexible. Loving a OS is one thing. That is your personal choice. But when it comes to working for others, you need to be flexible and just get the things done without whining. OS is just a tool to accomplish business goals.
It's like saying a mechanic won't fix your car because he can not find his snap-on tools and it is beneath him to use craftsman. - Davids26, on 11/16/2009, -10/+212Linux Contractor Fired for Using Firefox/Linux != Linux Contractor Fired for not Using IE/Windows
- digghasnoethics, on 11/16/2009, -7/+98You're a contractor. Keep your head down, never say anything negative and treat any stupidity or screw up their problem, and a potential opportunity for new work.
- BloggerSavvy, on 11/15/2009, -4/+88Interesting read. Why didn't the person just use Virtualbox, WMware, or somesuch. When I want to use an enforced Windows/IE environment, visualization works wonders! Surely all professional consultants could come up with that solution, no? It takes minutes to install...
- ohplease, on 11/16/2009, -1/+81I've worked with PMs like that, let's just say that project will fail miserably and it's better to get out before it gets going.
I started a project with a very large company (over 100,000 workstations) in which they wanted to deploy a resource forest with a 2 way trust on their main forest that held all their accounts, all Windows 2000, all Active Directory. They brought me on as the senior technical lead as AD is one of my specialities. They had rented out 2 floors of an office building and hired a few hundred staff for this two year project.
They didn't use usernames and passwords in this environment, instead they used smart cards. I walked in on the first day, after I was hired, and they showed me the Grand Plan. Build a nationwide resource forest, trust it with the main forest holding the smartcard authenticated user accounts, and leave the account management to the global team with resource management to the national team.
One small problem: it doesn't work. Smartcard authentication doesn't work across forests in Windows 2000, only 2003. So I told them on day one "Guys, this won't work. You can't do this." I then had a Microsoft technical account manager confirm that for them.
Their answer was "Well, we're going to go ahead and do it anyways". Nobody got fired. The project cost millions, and of course, didn't work. They employed me a for a year and a half, under contract, full time, to do something I told them was not possible on day 1. - 0tis, on 11/16/2009, -6/+66He only tried it while he waited for his laptop to arrive; if he thought he didn't need to, why go to the library?
Besides, Firefox is not Windows only; it's not outlandish by any means to suggest they support it. Granted, his OS is a problem in that he can't run IE without some techno-magic from the IES4Linux people, which is a lot of effort for one thing (and not 100% reliable at that).
But none of this is the real problem - the problem is that, while waiting for his Windows laptop, he asked if they would consider supporting Firefox and they overreacted hugely and fired him! That's not about Windows, I don't know what the ***** that's about. - FunFactor100, on 11/16/2009, -22/+77What kind of expert in this field doesn't have a Windows box handy? Any expert would have multiple boxes or at least a dual boot machine. He was probably not the guy for the job.
- TheWindBlows, on 11/15/2009, -6/+57Yes, but there are issues here, if he were to do that the Windows Price would be on his bill and his bill alone. Meaning cut from his contracted salary when all he had to do was wait a few days and get full payment. Also that is not the lone issue here, this is a Linux Contractor, working on Linux Servers, and he was fired for trying to figure out what was going on, why the website was Windows/IE only, while he waited for a secondary temp laptop with windows to arrive. The issue here is the company just decided to get rid of him, completely, unfairly and unjustly.
Seriously though why have Servers if all your going to do is fire the people who maintain them. - Samurai77, on 11/16/2009, -2/+44A contractor in the IT biz can't find a Windows PC laying around to use, and had to wait for one to be shipped?
Sounds like the PM isn't the only incompetent one. - 0tis, on 11/16/2009, -5/+43That's the point. They said he was fired for 'refusing' to use IE/Windows, but he didn't. All he did was use Firefox and ask if they could fix their site.
- 0tis, on 11/16/2009, -2/+35IE will install (the easiest method is to use 'IES4Linux', and if anyone from that project is reading, you rock) but it's not dead easy and not 100% reliable.
The thing is, he was ready to take the test while hopping on one leg, patting his head and rubbing his stomach. He just found it confusing that the test was IE-only - after all, Firefox is not a Linux-only thing by any means. While he was waiting, he decided to ask, so they fired him and *blacklisted* him? - uways, on 11/16/2009, -2/+35First off, the title is misleading.
Even with the very limited experience I have doing small tech jobs,I know well enough to have Windows XP AND Vista, Office, sometimes IE on hand because more often than not, I'll need them.
On the other hand, I am disappointed the website could not be accessed using other browsers. Are web standards non-existent to the people that made the website? Shame on you, big company (IBM?) - Vindexus, on 11/16/2009, -5/+37Did you even read the article? It didn't go:
"You have to use Windows/IE."
"***** you, support Linux/Firefox."
It went:
"You have to use Windows/IE. We'll send you a laptop with that."
"Cool. While I wait for that I'll try to find a workaround."
"You're fired." - crunchyeyeball, on 11/16/2009, -5/+36All sounds a bit iffy to me. Maybe I'm being cynical, but I'd rather hear the other side of the argument before I rush to condemn "Company with 3 letters in the name".
Maybe the online test really did require some feature of IE/Windows on the basis that most of their end-users were using IE/Windows. Maybe the guy was a bit of a douche and decided using IE/Windows offended his sensibilities. Maybe he rang the test admin to make the point that Windows was beneath him, and that if they wanted him to take the test, they'd have to ship him a Windows machine to use. Maybe the test admin decided that frankly, if a candidate was causing this much hassle before he even sat the test, he wasn't someone they wanted to work with. Maybe I'd agree with them.
I can't help but think the article is only giving us one side of the argument. - spworm, on 11/16/2009, -1/+32I don't see the problem.
He just escaped from what would have been a horrible job. - grexeo, on 11/16/2009, -1/+25IBM and Visa?
- sabach, on 11/16/2009, -2/+26He could've just gone to his local library and taken the test from there. There were so many ways he could've gotten around this.
- grimacebrown, on 11/16/2009, -4/+28The part about this that annoys me is that somebody who makes money off of a site that stupidly runs on only IE made a call to the PM and got a guy trying to use Linux fired.
He said this in the post, but this is just another crappy way to vilify Linux when the only problem was a dude who was seemingly a sycophantic Windows user. It's really the problem with anybody who is exclusive to a platform. Have your preferences all you want... but this is ***** retarded. - roebeet, on 11/16/2009, -0/+23You don't just dismiss a contractor that you've spend a month trying to secure and had sent a laptop to via overnight to fix an access problem. Something must have happened when he called the web site company that caused the dismissal. Unfortunately, the article doesn't go into detail on that.
As for the contractor - if you want to do business with computer/server company that isn't Apple or Red Hat, you should do yourself a favor and invest in a copy of Windows + Virtualbox. Think of it as necessary training / job tools to allow you to work within the policies that the company requires of you. - vulcanius, on 11/16/2009, -2/+25I'll think of it as spam.
- vault, on 11/16/2009, -5/+28FTA: "He was going to need it anyway to access MS Windows VPN only...it was how they would access the large credit card company with four letters in their name network. That was the setup for the project."
He should have gotten a copy of Windows in that case himself. That's what contractors do- you sometimes have to put up with ridiculous situations, and yes I agree it's ridiculous that the project manager had never heard of Firefox. So what? You don't ask them to change, *you* accommodate *them* because you are doing the job for them, not the other way around. Overnighting him a laptop for this is a little ridiculous in the first place.
It sucks that he lost the job. But large corporations are not the same as geeky friends. You do what you have to, and in this case, he should have already had access to Windows or had easy enough access that no one would have needed to send him a laptop over it. - yaosio, on 11/16/2009, -0/+22You mean they never blamed you for telling them that it would not work and then ignoring you?
- tnvwboy, on 11/16/2009, -2/+23Like wait the couple of days to get the loaner laptop from the project manager.
- MarkOfTheDead, on 11/16/2009, -0/+20He's not complaining, He's stating the inefficiency of big-business mentality and how they will in fact pay someone for a year and a half instead of admitting failure because he's "just some guy working for us".
- qwertydvorak, on 11/16/2009, -0/+20i work for a very large company (fortune 50) and i can say firsthand that we support windows 2000 heavily, windows 98 is still alive and kicking on some laptops, ie6 is standard, windows xp is currently the big os, and vista / 7 aren't even on the main radar yet.
companies like these are all about conforming and not rocking the boat. chain of command is king. never question anything, just do. the really big mistake that the guy made was questioning something when working with one company that is contracting with another larger company. the smaller company does not want any problems that will jepoardize the contract they have with the larger company. they will throw someone under the bus in a heartbeat, especially if the client is the largest moneymaker they have. - rmxz, on 11/16/2009, -3/+22Wonder if the "what's this foxfire thing" guy will be getting a Microsoft MVP award for this.
Seems the whole structure of this deal is messed up. So I'm to understand that
1. a US financial company, paid
2. a US computer services company, to pay
3. an Indian IT company, to pay
4. A US contractor
to apply a patch - and they didn't think there'd be breakdowns in communication?
Seems it'd be cheaper and safer for everyone if they hired #4 directly. Or at least told whomever they contracted the deal to - not to farm it out to layers of subcontractors. - Runningflame570, on 11/16/2009, -1/+20The blogger in question isn't talking about himself, hes retired. Nice reading comprehension there.
- elmargol, on 11/16/2009, -3/+21Thats why you have a Winxp IE6 VM in your homedir...
- Genma, on 11/16/2009, -1/+19his mistake imo was treating his contractors as some homogeneous entity that was supposed to make sense. in reality business does not work like that at all, sad but true. all we have are managers that act on the information they have about who's getting what done, anyone that introduces more work is just considered a liability getting in the way. someone throws a wrench in the process, drop them like they're hot and move on, it's that simple. even if it involves completely nonsensical procedure, sometimes it's better to just go with the flow. easy to say of course looking in from the outside, but thems the breaks. he was already lucky to be dealing directly with a PM who had the initiative to skip a step and get things moving, though had it been someone less inclined like HR of some sort, the whole situation might have been avoided since he would have no choice but to comply.
I would totaly blame the test site contractors, what else would you do if someone was dissatisfied with outdated and unusable software that you were trying to maintain as a viable solution. belittle and get rid of them, it's the corporate way. just bad luck that he happened to rub someone with way too much influence the wrong way. - grubwort, on 11/16/2009, -3/+21Not all of them, no. Only the ones that want steady employment as a consultant.
- diemunkiesdie, on 11/16/2009, -4/+21I'm not sure how much I believe his version of the story. Think of it this way, when someone says they got into an argument with a manager at the store, the person telling the story will invariably say they said everything calmly and cleanly without offending anyone, but the manager flipped out because he is crazy. 10 to 1 the person talking to the manager was belligerent and a demanding ass, but when he tells you the story he was more angelic then Mother Theresa.
- antoniuk, on 11/16/2009, -2/+18No, I think he hit the point square in the jaw. Anyone with a decent amount of skill is not discriminatory to only one OS.
Real techs can't afford to be single OS elitists - shredswithpiks, on 11/16/2009, -0/+16Buried for inaccurate. He wasn't fired, he never fully secured the contract. Yes, company with three letters in their name has a retarded Linux Project Manager, and even dumber web site builders (please make sure your web apps work with the four current browsers, ok?) but in private business it's their right to run things how they want and as a contractor you either play their game or you don't play their game. Dude had no business rocking the boat, it's not his company or his employer. You want their money you need to fit yourself into what they want and playing their game. You wouldn't sell cars by pointing out that <your favorite brand> is the best and pushing that onto the customer, would you? You'd ask what they're looking for and sell them the closest match you have. IT consulting is no different.
- ohplease, on 11/16/2009, -0/+15Working on a project doomed to fail is not nearly as gratifying as working on something that will actually succeed. In fact it's pretty depressing.
- ramilehti, on 11/16/2009, -2/+17Reading comprehension...
The guy was waiting for a new Windows laptop to arrive. And while he was waiting for that he thought he would ask if it were possible to get the website to support anything other than Windows+IE.
This is not about the guy being inflexible. He was willing to use Windows. The problem was he tried to get them to fix a problem that users similar to him would have.
It is about the website administrator overreacting and telling the PM overreacting some more. - Nerotique, on 11/16/2009, -0/+15Sounds to me like you've never worked for IBM. Did you know that all the PPC code for IBM BladeCenter's MM is compiled on x86 machines? Did you know that those x86 machines run Windows? That one threw me for a loop too.
- MxM111, on 11/16/2009, -0/+14In other words:
Initiative is a risk of being punished. - linagee, on 11/16/2009, -2/+15Or just piss off the client and get fired.
- rkthoadan, on 11/16/2009, -0/+13The article mentioned that he did try IE4Linux.
- Lonandubh, on 11/16/2009, -1/+14Somewhere between 1/5 and 1/4 of the market and you've never even Heard of it? Someone that ignorant of the computing world really shouldn't be a Project Manager.
- rkthoadan, on 11/16/2009, -0/+12You have difficulty believing that people can be self-centered jerks who don't really care about their customers and will do anything to discredit the competition? That's just human nature.
Anyway, here's the follow-up to the first story:
http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/character-as ... - oobuntu, on 11/16/2009, -2/+14He was fired for being difficult and not finding a way around the problem without whingeing.
- Elranzer, on 11/16/2009, -1/+13Wait... who is going to hire a blind and deaf computer contractor?
- jv2k, on 11/16/2009, -1/+13I'd have to agree. The incompatibility is a bit ridiculous but I can't see why the contractor would have gotten blacklisted for calling and casually asking about the firefox or windows support.
It could just be lazy/inflexible programmers that didn't want him stirring the pot(and potentially getting themselves fired for not being able to support anything other than IE). Of course he also could have been a total douche about the matter and given the fact that he didn't have a copy of windows lying around and didn't just find a way around it(a tech guy who only runs linux hits a roadblock when he hits an incompatibility?) seems to imply it.
I want to feel sympathetic for the guy but his actions are suspicious. He was already getting a laptop with windows shipped to him and he was still poking around. It seemed obvious the only way to make it work would be to redo the site or change a lot of stuff around what would a "tech support" call do? It seems the employer was very accommodating to his situation he basically got a "Don't worry about it we'll send you a laptop" and he kept poking around calling the people who ran the website. I get the feeling he was disgruntled and said some things that eventually lead to him getting fired.
Of course this lack of flexibility may have been an indication to his employer that the guy might not be the best one for the job(whether it is true he actually is or not). Even the most die hard suicide bombing linux supporter understands that we live in a linux world and usually has a way to make sure they can use windows software. This guy is an expert(probably dating back to days when internet explorer was king and everything was built around it) and the fact that he couldn't figure out a way around this problem on his own is troubling. - BoneheadFarker, on 11/16/2009, -3/+14What are you complaining about? You got a year and a half worth of contract pay for something you didn't have to put much effort into because you knew it was going to fail. As long as you don't get the blame for it, that's not a bad deal. Unless you actually put effort into it or you got blamed for the failure, in which case that's just sad...
- MonkeyOverlord, on 11/16/2009, -5/+16I call *****...
http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-h ...
http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flar ...
Some of this bloggers' stories have been sufficiently over the top to make me call shenanigans, especially the second one. - antoniuk, on 11/16/2009, -2/+13yes
we
do - Jaime2000, on 11/16/2009, -0/+10Politically correct companies.
- linagee, on 11/16/2009, -0/+10This becomes a much different case if he was "contractor that could not use proprietary IE website because he is blind/deaf/etc and his reader/braille/etc does not work with their proprietary system".
- waspbr, on 11/16/2009, -0/+10you mean it was in his contract that he could not request support from a website?
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