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82 Comments
- inactive, on 04/25/2009, -3/+29Good to see some interest in this. Now if only the right click issue could be fixed instead of me having to hold it down for 2 seconds before the menu appears, or if not, the email this link, bookmark this link, save as prompts appear.
- clarious, on 04/25/2009, -0/+25The problem with firefox on Linux is the fsync() fetish of sqlite used in it, plus the default data=ordered setting and cfq scheduler used in most distro nowaday. All of those things cause a heavy performance degradation for firefox. This benchmark only talk about JavaScript performance.
The fix for it? Use ext4 or wait until 2.6.30 kernel is out. Or make a tmpfs and mount .mozilla to it -> BlazingFox (there is a risk of corrupting Firefox data if not being synced back to disk correctly though).
But the fix above won't work for single threaded Javascript execution used in Firefox (one page loading content via JS = whole firefox stalling), though I heard it will be fixed in Firefox 3.5 too. - podgey22, on 04/25/2009, -1/+24Your comment might have some value if Google released a *stable* version of Chrome/Chromium for Linux. (This article is posted in the Linux/Unix area and has "Linux" in the title so no excuse.)
Chromium isn't bad but it's a long way from being stable or feature complete. And I should add that "feature complete" means a hell of a lot more (to me) than just being a tabbed browser thanks to the plugins I use for Firefox. - fungie5, on 04/25/2009, -2/+23NOT SO FAST, PEOPLE!
I just updated Ubuntu to 9.04 yesterday and one of the first performance-related things i noticed was how fast FF3 was running compared to version 8.10. I read the article and the ones it linked to and decided that this could NOT possibly be the case any longer with the new version of Ubuntu. My XP PCs all have Ubuntu installed in dual boot configuration (only one has the newest version though) so i decided to do my own testing. I just did the Sunspider benchmark of FF on Ubuntu then rebooted into XP on the same machine (an older machine running an Athlon XP 2200 CPU with 1GB Ram) and repeated the test. FF3 on UBUNTU 9.04 ACTUALLY BEAT the XP SCORE by 263.8!
FF 3.09 on Ubuntu 9.04 got 7228.0ms +/- 2.4%
FF 3.09 on WinXP SP3 got 7491.8ms+/-4.4%
The article that claimed that FF generally ran slower on Linux may have had a point in the past, but it's no longer valid. FF3 on Ubuntu 8 was a bit sluggish when really graphics-intensive stuff was being rendered. Not any more. I have to say that Ubuntu 9.04's performance and combination of subtle UI tweaks still has me in shock. My original plan before yesterday was to test it on my older machine for a while before updating Ubuntu on my more powerful machine. CHANGE OF PLANS!
One thing I do find problematic with the article is that it generalizes Linux by essentially making the suggestion that because they tested it on Fedora 10 their conclusions are valid for all varieties of Linux across the board. Performance with Linux OSes depends on your choice of distro. Linux itself is just the kernel and there's a whole bunch of modules built on top of the kernel that makes each OS very, very different, right down to how they perform. I'm sure if you test FF3 on different distros you'd get different benchmark figures. Even on Ubuntu, I had different levels of performance when I switch from using the default Gnome desktop of Ubuntu to using KDE (Kubuntu) to using Xfce (Xubuntu) on the SAME machine. - beautifulbeast, on 04/25/2009, -0/+16I don't understand why you're getting dug down. I've had similar problems with Firefox in Ubuntu, wich runs like crap. Only thing that seemed to "fix" it was upgrading to a faster computer and it seems to be getting better and better with all the OS and FF upgrades, but it's a shame because it used to run smoothly in XP.
- fungie5, on 04/25/2009, -1/+16And another thing.
The fact that Windows versions of FF3 running on wine actually beat the FF running natively on Linux indicates that it's not the Linux OS that is the problem, but some aspect of FF running natively on Linux that is not taking full advantage of Linux. Wine is merely an interface between the Windows program and the Linux OS. If the Linux version of FF is not communicating with the OS as efficiently as Wine can, then it's clearly not the fault of the Linux OS. - podgey22, on 04/25/2009, -0/+14OT but isn't it nice to see a website that focusses on the content? No sidebars or inline ads detracting from it. Good work.
- Warom, on 04/25/2009, -0/+11Shouldn't it be 3.5 beta 4 native vs 3.5 beta 4 wine? Because it might still be comparatively slow just this version faster than the older version?
- comrade693, on 04/25/2009, -0/+11What are you talking about? A whole bunch of work went into working around this problem in Firefox 3.5 (I know because I'm one of the people who did it). Things should be a lot better in 3.5.
Additionally, the file system folks have worked on making fsync not be so crappy for ext3/ext4. I can't find the blog post about that, but it was posted within the last month. Basically, the next kernel upgrade makes this problem almost go away, and Firefox 3.5 does some tricks to make things go faster too. It should be a much better experience. - oobuntu, on 04/25/2009, -0/+11not always the case: nvidia restricted drivers in 8.10 cause slow scrolling problems on java rich pages esp. facebook, fsync problem slows down firefox bigtime (esp. eeepc), other stuff too. not everybody's experience is perfect on linux.
not to mention the frequent crashes we get on centos5.2 desktops at work (maybe plugin related?) - alexforcefive, on 04/25/2009, -0/+10go to about:config > browser.backspace_action. Set it to 0
- db113456, on 04/25/2009, -2/+10And well done benchmarks too.
- greenx, on 04/25/2009, -2/+10Very interesting results for early stages.
- Ragzouken, on 04/25/2009, -0/+8He's probably getting dugg down because not many people experience an issue with the right click menus.
- Darkhacker, on 04/25/2009, -3/+10Windows has a majority marketshare, so it kind of makes sense that they'd optimize for Windows before the other platforms. I do wish the Linux build received more attention though.
- int19h, on 04/25/2009, -1/+7Check your extensions, the right-click menu appears instantly here.
- wmuldoon, on 04/25/2009, -0/+6and since when is the ubuntu forums where all the guru's hang out?
Im sure a quick search will tell you that installing ubuntu is extremely difficult there.
ubuntu != gnu/linux
Ubuntu is an ancient African word meaning: I can't configure debian - ThreeDee912, on 04/25/2009, -0/+6@themusicalduck
It's called "Autoscrolling".
Go Tools > Options... > Advanced > General > Check "Use Autoscrolling" - rpgmakr, on 04/25/2009, -1/+7Or you must really, REALLY love Chrome or you never liked Linux so much. I mean, I'm not the happiest person with firefox (even though the extensions still stop me from changing browser) but to use XP just for Chrome, I mean, Chrome is good and all but a browser has to give me an orgasm every time I use it in order for me to leave Linux.
- Biscuitz, on 04/25/2009, -0/+6Weird, I've never had any issues with firefox on ubuntu... I was totally unaware of the issues =/
- ThreeDee912, on 04/25/2009, -0/+5They renumbered 3.1 to 3.5.
http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2009/03/next-firefox-ve ... - smacksaw, on 04/25/2009, -0/+4Umm...I don't really hang out on Linux forums all that much, but at least on Digg most people will tell you Firefox is slow. It's not like it's any sort of big secret and you can't claim it's not since there's so much proof otherwise.
As far as stability goes, they both have problems.
In Windows, Firefox will freeze up quite often. But in Ubuntu it won't freeze up, but will sometimes simply disappear when you're using it. In the end, it's the same thing - you either kill it manually or it kills itself without asking you, but I lose Firefox more often in Windows than I do in Ubuntu. - com2, on 04/25/2009, -0/+4How about the backspace going back a page. I miss that on Linux.
- ranold, on 04/25/2009, -0/+4Minefield FTW.... currently beta'ing 3.6v1
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nig ... - trib4lmaniac, on 04/25/2009, -0/+3It also needs to add a lot more functionality to it's printing. There is no print preview or page setup atm - you can't even disable the headers and footers - and that's a real deal breaker for us at work.
Thankfully, both addons and print preview are coming soon to a Chromium near you. Addons, at least, will be /very/ soon (fingers crossed, next month). - kovert, on 04/25/2009, -0/+3I've been using Firefox on Linux since Fedora Core 6/Ubuntu 6.04 and the biggest boost in speed I've seen is the transition from FF2 to FF3 and from Flash 9 to Flash 10. Nice to see there will be another boost once Firefox 3.5 comes out.
- systemghost, on 04/25/2009, -1/+4On Windows 7 build 7000, 3.1b2 vs 3.5b4
** TOTAL **: 1.41x as fast **FROM**: 1267.4ms +/- 2.0% **TO:** 901.8ms +/- 0.9% **DETAILS:** significant
Interesting enough to keep installed for me at least. - inactive, on 04/25/2009, -0/+3on my windows machine i prefer Firefox but on my netbook with ubuntu, its either Midori ppa build or Chromium (pretty freaking stable and awesome.)
- CamoChris, on 04/25/2009, -0/+3Did you read the same article as I did? It said they used Ubuntu not Fedora.
- fungie5, on 04/25/2009, -0/+3I was referring to the article they linked back to in the opening line....this one
http://www.tuxradar.com/content/benchmarked-firefo ... - asgari, on 04/25/2009, -0/+3On Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 x64 :
** TOTAL **: 2.40x as fast 2304.8ms +/- 1.6% 959.2ms +/- 2.2% significant
FF 3.0.9 (2304.8ms)
FF 3.5b4 (959.2ms) - noughtsInaName, on 04/25/2009, -0/+3Wow thanks for mentioning that! I was seriously worried I was losing control over my fingers, didn't know it was common.
- Sammi84, on 04/25/2009, -0/+3It's called utilitarianism, and it's generally a good idea.
- clarious, on 04/25/2009, -0/+3In fact, I did change data mode to writeback (eliminate fsync slugginess), change the elevator to anticipatory (better for slow HDDs like laptop's ones), use noatime, create a tmpfs for .mozilla and use the lastest nvidia beta driver (which enable putting small pixmap in vid memory) so I can say how much performance can be gained.
Though so I still have a very small delay when enable smooth scrolling on some sites :-/ - fungie5, on 04/25/2009, -0/+3That was the case for me as well until yesterday, although i would call it sluggishness in browser behaviour rather than slowness in rendering. Now, for me, FF 3.09 is fastest on Ubuntu 9.04 when compared to XP on the same machine and my little test shows me why. It even starts in 2 seconds flat on cold start-up. In XP on this machine FF3 starts in about 8 - 9 seconds on cold start-up.
Ultimately though, it's the features like Compiz that makes browsing so much better in Ubuntu for me, I typically open 2 -3 windows each with 10 or more tabs and i move each window to different desktops and rotate the cube as needed. It's more efficient for me and more fun rolled into one. I look forward to using Chromium when released but it won't meet the criteria for default status on any machine of mine until it acquires Xmarks functionality. - nerddtvg, on 04/25/2009, -0/+2Wow, I thought that was a problem with my mouse. Seriously. That has been pissing me off.
- javaroast, on 04/25/2009, -0/+2Yeah and Linux trolls like zsev will keep telling us that linux is useless, bug ridden piece of crap and I should just purchase windows and be done with it. For me, I'll just skip the input of the trolls and the fanboys for any of the daily digg OS fights. I really think adblock needs to find a way to block trolls and fanboys too. I know that is one extension that I would install.
- AzureRise, on 04/26/2009, -0/+2Why is it off on Linux by default? Does middle clicking serve some other purpose in Linux? I know I used to use it to google search text on a distro I used to use.
- XeroXenith, on 04/25/2009, -0/+2I thought that too... anyone care to test?
- fungie5, on 04/25/2009, -0/+2@smacksaw
Ok, I get the picture now. That does sound like a graphics card driver issue - that will affect Ubuntu's performance overall. Whenever the graphics card is underutilized, the CPU has to pick up the slack. When i first ran Compiz in 8.04 I had a similar 'jerky cube' experience for a short while, but once they started rolling out improved proprietary Nvidia drivers in the updates, everything got better right away - flash animation improved, the flash version 10 plug-in that came later was able to utilize the graphics card much more, the browser's operations got smoother overall.
Here's what you may need to do. Go through Compiz and turn off some of the graphical features and special effects, particularly ones that you don't use very often. Some of them tax the graphics card even when not being actively used, You should see an improvement in the performance of the cube once you do that. If you are using an ATI card, Ubuntu 9.04 will provide you with better drivers than Ubuntu 8. The next version, 9.10, is supposed to ship with a much larger variety of graphics drivers, according to what i read yesterday.
One thing that I've learned about Ubuntu, is that if you stick with it, you will see performance improvements over time. - Zsev, on 04/25/2009, -4/+6now if only every computer user is as honest as you to the flaws of their OS.
- 1x253, on 04/25/2009, -0/+2ism70605
Read smacksaw's comment closely: "spent more time in XP these days simply because I like Chrome so much."
He is referring to only one need (browsing) not ALL his needs. Also, he may (like me) have partitions for both Linux and MS OS's. I use Linux for almost everything, but I can only use Dragon Naturally Speaking on the Windows side. It's a damn shame, too, b/c I'm guessing (as a non-programmer) that working with open source code they could optimize Dragon's performance on Linux more readily than on an MS OS. - inactive, on 04/25/2009, -0/+2Just so you know, there are multiple Linux issues with FF and right click in any distro forum. I looked for a fix or workaround but the only information I could gather was the FF code is not clearing the cache quickly enough and therefore producing errors that are truly random. It is Similar to Java scripts input handler and how it fails to clear the buffer before the input has been cleared. The result is an eternal loop in any if /where/ do while statement.
This is being caught but the exception is producing a random callout rather than a fixed get menu. - 1x253, on 04/25/2009, -0/+2
" (the article) generalizes Linux by essentially making the suggestion that because they tested it on" one distro or another "their conclusions are valid for all varieties of Linux across the board. Performance with Linux OSes depends on your choice of distro."
Yes, that IS true. - 1x253, on 04/25/2009, -0/+2that's my experience as well, point for point.
- SuperMoses, on 04/25/2009, -0/+2Conclusion: significant!
- themusicalduck, on 04/25/2009, -0/+2How about a way to enable scrolling by holding down the middle mouse button? I miss that on windows too.
- svivian, on 04/25/2009, -0/+2Just because a site has ads (to make a living or cover costs) and navigation sidebars (to... well, navigate the site) doesn't mean they're not focusing on content.
- javaroast, on 04/25/2009, -0/+2Yes, I've been a little critical of all the Radars, but this was a useful article in a nice format. Definite Kudos for their clean approach.
- smacksaw, on 04/25/2009, -0/+2I never said I left Linux. I said that I prefer Chrome and am using XP more. Like...say I want to play a game, I boot into XP. It doesn't mean I dislike Linux.
Where do you draw that conclusion from? -
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