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33 Comments
- linuxquestions, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1echimu,
I'm not following your logic at all. As a community, our goal is to help people with Linux. The more people that know about us, the more people we can help. Since generating a profit is not a big concern for us, after we pay expenses we do things like donate to our favorite projects, try to save for more hardware and promote the site. If you've never seen any other community do this, you've just not looked very hard. Why would us trying to help more people instead of putting the money in our pockets not make us part of the community?
--jeremy - AdamCo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Anchoret;
did you look into Suse as I suggested? I gave you a link to check out for your laptop.
Here's a link to the Suse HCL: http://www.opensuse.org/HCL/Network_Adapters_(Wireless) - BitHammer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Diggworthy? Absolutely. The LQ community has saved hours of my time. You'd think that given the number of times I've installed Slackware that I'd have xorg.conf memorized (ZAxisMapping every time!).
Digg users interested in GNU/Linux should have this resource bookmarked.
Congrats. - Optimistic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1>So, Linux takes a tremendous amount of time and tinkering and futzing
It is not that Linux takes so much time to set up. It is just that Linux offers you the ability to tinker and customize, something that is sorely absent in Windows.
Last weekend I set up my girlfriend's computer with openSuse 10, and tied it into the home network without any problems---and I didn't even have to go on the net or look for the Driver CDs for the hardware. Everything just worked. Plus, by installing Linux I already had a useable word processor (openoffice 2), an image manipulator (gimp) and a host of other applicatiopns that in the Windows world would all cost something more and come on different CD with different CD keys, blah, blah, blah.
Plus, after you get everything on Windows you want (don't forget to restart every time you add a new program), you then have to worry about viruses and all that on a daily basis.
Who has the time and money to setup and use windows?
- linuxquestions, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Thanks for the feedback. A couple comments:
> I love linux but the ***** on that site get off on making you feel stupid
Are you sure you have the right site? We pride ourselves on being extremely friendly, despite our size. If you have any specific examples of such behavior please point them out to me and we'll get the situation remedied immediately. We simply don't accept that behavior
> and it's telling that it's not "LinuxANSWERS"
Actually we had linuxanswers.org for a long time, but a domain squatter has it now. When I created the site, I figured people "had questions" about Linux, hence LinuxQuestions.org. I assure you though, we do have answers.
> no digg from me. story reported as spam. if we all started self-digging our own blogposts or our own > sites, digg would just be a complete waste of time.
I looked around for a policy about submitting your own site before I did, and didn't find anything. I assure you I wasn't trying to spam anything (I'd not have chosen "linuxquestions" as a username if that was my intention). I felt the 3 submissions were potentially of interest to the digg community and figured I'd check things here out. If it's not acceptable to submit a story about any of your own sites, I'll certainly stop (and will continue to use digg either way). FWIW I did attempt to submit a couple other non-LQ Linux related stories, but they came up as dupes.
> So, Linux takes a tremendous amount of time and tinkering and futzing
I find newer Linux distributions to be extremely easy to use and very well setup right out of the box. For overall user experience I think that Mac is still probably better for someone who is completely new to computers (the fact that it comes preinstalled alone is huge). I'd still consider Windows by far the hardest to install, configure and use on a day to day basis though. In the end though, you should choose what works best for you.
--jeremy - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1In a sense, Linux has better hardware support than windows because it supports so many different platforms (x86, x86-64, PPC, sparc, MIPS, ARM. . .) The same can be said for the BSDs, it cannot be said for windows.
- n3tfury, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0definitely not worth a digg.
as for the "down with open source" comment: i hope that was sarcasm, or am forced to believe that you're a complete dolt.
@7of7: you also, are an idiot. if you can't get ubuntu or a similar debian based distro to work for you without crashing, you need a swift kick in the balls.
"i must've needed to ask 1000 questions": sure thing, Capt. Hyperbolize - echimu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+02,000,000 post ? 200,000 users? so what's the big deal and is this is tech news? I guess they are making good money out of it... just type "linux help" in google.com and you will get first ad by linuxquestions.org ...
I'm not saying it is bad to make money but then plz stop saying your big community, I think UseNet via google group is the best place to look for answers,
just my thoughts.. - darkchild, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0LinuxQuesions.org is run by volunteers for no profit, so they are not really making any money from it.
- ilikejam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Linux users should exercise the same caution Mac users do. Only buy hardware which is supported. It's not hard.
- Anchoret, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0> I think my Suse install took less time than a windows install and was just as easy.
That's a mendacious response: "Installing" is one thing; "working" is something else (though of course a lot of distros do simply crash during install on many machines).
"Installing" doesn't mean that your hardware won't be unsupported -- or badly supported with buggy, semifunctional, underdeveloped amateur drivers -- nor does it mean that the buggy, semifunctional, underdeveloped amateur applications will work properly, either alone or with each other...and that's assuming that the basic distro release is sound, something that's far from being a given.
I've been trying for SIX YEARS to get a 100% functional Linux desktop, and in that time I've tried at least fifteen different distros on probably ten machines. I've never made it yet for the reasons above. I've tried five distros in the past week alone on my new notebook, but the VIA video and RT2500 wireless are unsupported by any of them, never mind that the RT2500 was "Product of the Year" in some major Linux journal.
If you want to spend your life on some site like LinuxQuestions (and it's telling that it's not "LinuxANSWERS"), you can eventually kludge together some partial, fragile fix for your box, maybe, if you buy a new bunch of different peripherals to go with your "free" OS.
_That's_ the Linux Experience for the overwhelming majority of people who've tried Linux and that explains the two million posts. It's not a sign of success, its a sign of failure. - thund3rstruck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Definatly no digg... I love linux but the ***** on that site get off on making you feel stupid. Much better community in alt.linux and comp.os.linux.*
- AdamCo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Anchoret;
I think my Suse install took less time than a windows install and was just as easy. Same with Fedora and FreeBSD, no tinkering involved. Using it was just as easy. I'm not sure which distro you tried. I've seen many very good and complete answers at LQ. It's unfortunate you had a bad experience, but you probably didn't spend enough time there to actually see the good replies. - AdamCo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Well, if "snoopdawg" doesn't deem this submission worthy of a digg, then no one should. Yet, he felt it was worthy enough to leave a comment about how he wasn't going to digg it. Amazing. One thing about LQ is that it's members sure are better than the ones here at digg.
- echimu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Okai jeremy thanks for reply back, good to see your explanation, now my thoughts are clear :) Yup I do love Linux and community like you, but most of time I hang around chat rooms and newsgroup but sure I will join LQ sooner or later
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Diggworthy? Absolutely. The LQ community has saved hours of my time. You'd think that given the"
Yeah, however, the person posting it is part of LinuxQuestions and the only diggs he's submitted before are "Linux Questions ISO Downloads reach 1,500,000!" and "Linux Questions Site Redesigned!".
Digg isn't for ***** personal press releases. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm sick of people bashing linux because of it's hardware support, you _cannot_ blame the community for unsupported devices. You have only the hardware vendors and microsoft coercion to blame for that, you obviously have no idea how hard it is to write drivers for devices without support specifications from the manufacturer, in many cases, it's like trying to read a book in the dark. Thankfully, there are some kind companies that provide native drivers like nvidia and ati, but alot of what is in linux now are drivers coded by community members (can you say intel centrino?) and now that we have cooperation from IBM and HP think of what the linux kernel alone will support by next year! I notice you (Anchoret) still haven't named this elusive hardware, or the distro's which cannot tame it. You cannot expect hw support to magically improve if all you do is troll on digg about how linux does not hold your hand, how about you work with the developers by letting them know you are having problems with said chipset and it gives so and so errors so there can be a chance of this hardware being supported.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"I've been trying for SIX YEARS to get a 100% functional Linux desktop, and in that time I've tried at least fifteen different distros on probably ten machines." Either you are sponsored by microsoft or you don't know the first thing about linux, i find it interesting that you have had soo many dawnting problems with linux, but when I installed my first distro (knoppix with kernel 2.4 on a KT266a based motherboard) as a complete noob, i had no problems other than learning to compile source code. That was 2 years ago, do you mean to tell me linux hardware support has gotton worse? please. I have since had no major hardware support problems when installing linux on a wide variety of hardware, i've even installed it on my playstation 2! how about you post the hardware specs of the machines you've had so many problems with so we can figure out how to get it working because a large part of open source development is user contribution, have you reported any bugs? until you learn to be patient and cooperative, happy virus scanning!
- irabinovitch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0LinuxQuestions.org is sponsorsing / attending SCALE 4x ( http://www.socallinuxexpo.org )
- AdamCo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Maybe next time you should quote my next sentence that said:
"Using it was just as easy."
I spend most of my time on LinuxQuestions looking through and seeing if I can help anyone. I don't think I've ever submitted a question. I've had questions of course, but I've always been able to find my answer with a search on google (which usually lead to me a LQ post) or searching on LQ itself.
Have you Tried Suse? Searching the Suse hardware compatibility list it shows the RT2500 as being supported by Suse Linux 9.3 and the current 10.0.
Look here for your laptop: http://www.opensuse.org/HCL/Laptops it will show which devices are supported/not supported on many different kinds of laptops. Again, it's unfortunate for your bad experience. If you haven't, I'd look into Suse, it's been very good to me. Add a few repos and you will be good to go with intalling software. I've had great software running Linux. Good Luck. - kdehead, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0no digg from me. story reported as spam.
if we all started self-digging our own blogposts or our own sites, digg would just be a complete waste of time. - archiesteel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Anchoret: the RT2500 card is supported on the latest Linux versions. Linux has improved TREMENDOUSLY over the past six years, especially in the area of hardware support.
May I suggest you try things out with a LiveCD before installing? This will tell you if your hardware is supported out-of-the-box. For WiFi drivers, don't forget that ndiswrapper and Linuxant's driverloader will let you use the Windows XP drivers (I know it works flawlessly for my laptop's Broadcom WiFi adapter). - Anchoret, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0> Anchoret: the RT2500 card is supported on the latest Linux versions.
100% feature functionality upon distro install? Please, name one. There are some distros with partial functionality using ndiswrapper and some partially-functional experimental drivers developed from the orphaned RaLink Linux drivers, but I know of no distro that installs the RT2500 much less with all its features active & running. I think that you can eventually kludge the RT2500 chipset to somewhat work in most distros, but it's not pretty.
> Linux has improved TREMENDOUSLY over the past six years
I know it has, and that's great, but it has far to go and it's not keeping up.
> especially in the area of hardware support.
Hardware support is always late and behind the curve. A year from now, my hardware may be adequately supported on distro install, but it's not now -- and the devices are not that new or obscure. Linux hardware support is not keeping up with hardware obsolescence; it can't because it's an underfunded, reactive process. Driver development usually doesn't begin until the device is on the market, won't be incorporated into a distro for at least six months after it's somewhat functional and that's just too late. This is a best-case scenario, too. Some drivers I'm waiting on are bogged-down in forks and geekfights by the guys developing them. By the time the drivers are genuinely workable and in place within distros, the device has typically gone to a new chip and the cycle starts over. I have no solution for that situation.
> May I suggest you try things out with a LiveCD before installing?
I've used at least six recently. Most install, at least on some of my boxes, but leave me without functioning hardware. Some of them I like very much, but they just don't do everything I need, or run all my hardware. That's the heartbreak of Linux. - kdehead, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0looks to me as if Anchoret is just a Microsoft sponsored troll. either that, or just a complete and utter idiot.
- Dwebtron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0..... & this hit the front page and still nobody cared...
- FullMetalMonkey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0WTF! "down with open source"
You got a problem with Open Source MoeB! - Ssullivan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+07of7 is such a troll
- echimu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0jeremy nice to see your reply but you didn't anwser my question why you are putting ads on google adwords? I never see any community doing this..? I know making money is not bad, if you run such big site then you need money and you have full right to put ads on your site.. but why you are adverting yourself? then plz stop calling yourself community
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0LAME and additionally, in light of who is posting it, SPAM.
- Anchoret, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0No Digg. So, Linux takes a tremendous amount of time and tinkering and futzing and a thousand questions to a bunch of people who probably don't know the answer and couldn't explain it clearly if they did.
So what?
Tell me something I don't know.
LinuxQuestions has crapped out on me every time I needed an answer, BTW.
This isn't as stupid as the article the other day about the "best" Linux distro, which of course never delivered on the tease.
You Linux nuts have to be more discriminating in your links. Not everyone is as hysterically gaga for anything with the word "Linux" in it as you are. - snoopdawg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0yeah, no digg.
- 7of7, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Sorta says something, doesn't it? I know when I installed Linux on my laptop I must've needed to ask about 1000 questions because the damn thing wouldn't work right. Then again, after I got sick of Linux's shiat and installed XP, the computer works fine and I haven't had any problems with crashing or freezing like with Linux.
- MoeB, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0down with open source
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