What is Digg?106 Comments
- sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -7/+43If Linus needs to get off his high horse, so do the the Gnome Devs.
I decided to look at the mailing list myself instead of relying on Bloggers and other media on the web.
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2007-February/001119.html
"¿Quién es el NAZI?
Nada más, esto para LINUS para que piense.
LINUS, NO SABES LEER ESPAÑOL, ¿A VER SI VAS A SER IDIOTA TU TAMBIÉN?"
Run through the Google language tool, it means " Who is the NAZI? Nothing else, this for LINUS so that it thinks. LINUS, YOU DO NOT KNOW TO READ SPANISH, TO SEE IF YOU ARE ALSO GOING TO BE STUPID YOUR?" Yeah, I know the last sentence doesn't quite make sense as written. I think it just means "Linus, you don't know how to read Spanish, are you also stupid", even though Linus never said Gnome users are stupid. (And they're not, being smart enough to look at alternatives to Windows)
On his next post, after being called a Nazi, Linus himself was remarkably calm
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2007-February/001121.html
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Marcos Pérez López wrote:
>
> Yo también soy idiota. No se configurar la mayor parte de las opciones
> del escritorio, y si he podido empezar a usar linux es porque Gnome me
> lo facilitó.
There is a _huge_ difference between "being easy to use" and "_only_ being
easy to use".
"Being easy to use" is important, because it means that there isn't a very
high learning curve. That's _good_.
"ONLY being easy to use" is bad, because it means that once the initial
learning curve is over, maybe you know the program, but you can't actually
do what you WANT to do. And that's *bad*. That's *really* bad. It's
actually much worse than being hard to use to begin with, in many ways.
Game designers know about this. You don't want to make your games too
challenging, because if you do, people never get "into" them. But if you
don't give people challenges along with the game, and don't allow them to
"grow" with the game, the game sucks. It migth be as easy as making things
just "fall faster" (Tetris), or it might be giving the person new
capabilities ("bigger guns").
Gnome people seem to think that once you "got into it", you never want to
do anything more. Not true.
Linus
In fact, Linus' daughters use Gnome. Also in the same post he proposes other solutions:
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2007-February/001135.html
*nix geeks do get on high horses. But I think the media is actually portraying Linus to be on a higher horse than he really is, meanwhile some of the Gnome devs are being utter *****. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+38OMG Linus voiced his opinion! Surely this man must be part of the nazi movement.
- FreakyT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30I've noticed them doing things like this, and it baffles me as to why. For example, take preferences dialogs. In several cases, I've seen functional preference dialogs stripped down to about one or two options, with the help files telling me that I should "use GConf Editor" to edit the preferences. Now, I'm all for user friendliness, but, IMO, removing almost every configuration option from a program's UI makes that program HARDER to use.
- hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -5/+29>KDE devs are just as bad. Want double-click behavior? Sorry, KDE thinks they know better than you, and they refuse to include double-click behavior by default. Swim through their horrid configuration options for 20 or 30 minutes...you'll find the option eventually.
If that is true, then KDE devs are not just as bad. Want a behavior with Gnome? There are no configuration options to wade through, and you will not find the option eventually. The option is never there. - shanesemler, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25They both have good points. I'm a Gnome user but I'm really pissed off they removed something simple like the the xscreensaver configuration dialogs. WTF for??? Linus is right, it IS a disease. The Gnome developers have succeeded in creating a desktop with easy, sane defaults (that's good) but totally destroyed power user capabilities (that's very bad). On the other hand, KDE is a mess and in my PERSONAL experience, not as fast or stable as Gnome. The gnome developers are right. Linus is more right. Gnome developers: listen to the man.
- sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -7/+28This bit from the article pretty well what I don't understand about Gnome:
""In GNOME I think we've done a very good, and somewhat painful job, of creating something that's very simple and very usable for someone who sits down in front of the machine," Blizzard continued. "I say painful because we've had to remove a lot of things that people were very used to in order to get a base experience that's pretty good." How does taking basic abilities that people actually use make the desktop more usable and not less? - lnostdal, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20one of the most annoying things about this debate is all the morons (yes, you) who do not understand what's going on:
1. gnome want simple sane defaults
2. linus want simple sane defaults ... yes; the _same thing_
3. ..but linus also want options that power users can access _if they want to_
think of it like this; you can have the benefits of the simple gnome _and_ the benefits of the more flexible kde _at the same time_ .. it's not impossible to imagine, morons - mabhatter, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20I'll jump on this one! I've run both KDE and Gnome on my linux install, but I keep coming back to Gnome because I hate the constant fidgeting with the KDE settings.
For example on the Knoppix CD there are 4 seperate control panels and 3 lists of programs on the start menu!! Trying to remember to use the Knoppix control panel, KDE settings, KDE control panel, or some other place is fustrating. Let's take simple configuration of the screen...IF you want to change the wallpaper that's one place, toolbars eyecandy and menus are another, the resolution is in a different program, and adapters are somewhere else. Worse, none of those control panels link to any of the others (which is what Linus was complaining about in Gnome by the way) Something as simple in Windows or mac as right-clicking on the desktop to change stuff has 4 different places in KDE.
In the default Human Ubuntu setup, there's only 1 place for each system change. They may not always make sense coming from other OS or DE but once you learn where something is at you only have to go there. They stay away from haveing 4 control panels with similar names to not confuse new users. Of course this is coming from the same guy that thinks breaking binary compatiblity in 2.6 kernel to add new features in stable is just fine when that's not been the case for 10 years before... It's the difference between USING the system and FIDGETING with it looking busy.
I do agree, some things in Gnome still need the little control panels built to work the "Gnome" way. KDE rules in terms of configurability... you can tweak it to act or look like darn near anything.. control panels to match all the major OSes... but just adds CONFUSION to new users, particularly older users. Gnome is trying to be very approachable and judging from my household habit of leaving strange OSes on the computer for days it seems to do better at the "wife and kids" test when they're in a hurry to do something and dad has goofy stuff going on. - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -21/+38IMHO, Linus must get off his high horse and be polite to those who make his kernel so attractive. I use KDE, but whenever I read these remarks from Linus, it's just embarrassing.
- Me1on, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18>> "The founding father hates the most popular desktop environment"
According to the 2006 LinuxQuestions.org Members Choice Awards, KDE is the most popular by a fairly large margin: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=514945 - diggsIt, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19I may or may not switch to KDE, but I learn something every time Linus speaks. He can say whatever he wants about Linux distros and packages. He's earned it.
- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Hes working on one, heres a screenshot:
root@desktop:~# - SeBBBe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14KDE and Gnome have different approaches to how they think a desktop environment should work, and the visions are different from each other. KDE is more suitable for some people, Gnome is more suitable for some people. And you can choose which one you want from those two, or another desktop environment. That's why Linux is so great.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10"On his next post, after being called a Nazi, Linus himself was remarkably calm"
Linus first referred to GNOME developers as "interface nazis". The post you quoted pokes fun at that characterization. For what it's worth, Linus has historically been quite aggressive in his language towards GNOME. - MrTea, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I think that gnome could just easily solve the problem with a "Beginner" and "Advanced" theme configuration; the "Advanced" could add the options that Linus is fighting to include while "Beginner" could be the same ol' same ol'. I personally like both GNOME and KDE, but I would love for GNOME to have all of those customization options without having to go into the source.
- Apreche, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I've been using Linux for 6+ years, and I stand firmly with the Gnome camp. My first desktop environment was KDE1, then KDE2. Then after short stints of using XFCE, fvwm, fluxbox, ion, etc. I'm now just happy using the default Ubuntu Gnome. Sure, it's not perfectly customizable. There are hundreds of options available that Gnome offers no access to. If I actually wanted to access all those options, I would go back to using the 100% customizable fvwm.
As someone who actually wants to use my computer to do things, Gnome works. I can launch my applications. I can move them around. I can have multiple desktops. I can access things through menus. I can change the theme and layout of my desktop. What more do I need? I'd probably still be using XFCE if it properly supported dual monitors like Gnome does.
As a former KDE user I must say that KDE offers excellent applications. KWrite, KDevelop, Amarok, K3B, etc. are often far superior to the equivalents in Gnome land. But there's no reason I can't use Gnome and also run Amarok. In fact, I do it now! The reason I don't use KDE anymore is because it does exactly what Linus seems to want. It offer a GUI interface for almost every option you could possibly want. As a result you have incredibly long and complicated menus. You have cluttered dialog boxes. You have a control panel with about a million checkboxes all over the place. Sure, there might be 2 or 3 of those checkboxes I wish I had. But when you start putting in the checkbox for everybody, you get a mess. I'm willing to sacrifice the few options I want if it means I don't have to be bothered sifting through thousands of options that I don't want. At least fvwm has a text configuration file instead of a cluttered gui. That's really the only reasonable way to provide the level of customization that Linus seems to want.
It's great for him if his preference is KDE. Everyone is entitled to their personal likes and dislikes. He just has to realize that there are a lot of people out there who have the opposite likes. Most of us don't going around insisting that KDE should change to our philosphy. That's why we have choices! If Gnome became more like KDE as Linus wants, that decreases diversity. That's the opposite of what makes the open source world great. Every project does what the community around that project wants to do. If you don't like it, there is another project somewhere else that does what you want. Use what you want and who cares what other people do? - sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Ack! What I was trying to say is that you just go into the Control Center, notice where it says Peripherals (the mouse is a peripheral, after all :p ) and select the Double Click. This hardly takes 20-30 minutes.
Why should KDE enable double clicking by default though? KDE users are used to single clicking and suddenly changing that to accommodate users that switched over from Windows yesterday would be a bad thing. Yes, they can fix it as easily I just mentioned, but it would be annoying. - chedabob, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17Linus being the father of linux and all, should be proud of everything people are doing with Linux. He may not like some of the things, but the least he could do is concentrate on the positives (like Gnome is far easier for newer users) instead of being a total dick towards Gnome.
- Hindu_Wardrobe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Why can't everyone just get along?
I'm a proud GNOME user, but I don't think it's Godly and that KDE is evil, etc etc etc.
I just think that instead of having flamewars, Linus should actually do something about it, which he is (didn't he submit a patch?)
Just remember, Linux is about choice. - HerbertScrunge, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"I guess Linus just prefers KDE's giant, over-abundant icons, single-mouseclick launching and big, unecessarily bold fonts everywhere as oppossed to the professional-looking GNOME interface."
Or maybe he doesn't, and he took 30 seconds to change them to the way he likes them. - darkchild, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I don't see how Linus pointing out what he thinks are flaws in a particular piece of software thats not kernel related a disservice to the kernel. He actually seems to know a bit about GNOME development because he submitted patches within a few hours which goes to show that he has used GNOME before and is quite familiar with the development process. Its a well known fact that in the past Linus has contributed code to various opensource projects that are in no way related to the Linux kernel but this has never affected kernel development.
- TimoP, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Yes, STFU Linus. I guess OSS is about choise, but not about the right to voice your opinion.
- nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8KDE has 100 options for things I will never care about, and they get in the way of the few that I do care about. I am a programmer and a BS comp sci student so I am no novice grandmother. The options aren't confusing, they're just pointless _for me_. Apps like amarok are great. I don't think amarok suffers from typical KDE-isms though.
I'm a fluxbox and Xfce guy myself, but I prefer Gnome to KDE any day of the week. Until Gnome 2.x I was a fan of KDE, so I have no bias. I think KDE4 looks very cool so maybe one day I'll use KDE again. Things change fast in the OSS world and every year or so it's good to give the other guys a chance again. Xfce 3 and KDE 2 were nice in their own way, but not exactly steak, and Gnome 1.x was an atrocity. In several years I think both Gnome and KDE are going to be really top-notch. Think how they were several years back. - smellinator, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@chedabob:
I am thrilled that Linus is being vocal. My somewhat recent experience with Linux, having been away from it for years: Pick a distribution. Whoa, there are dozens or hundreds. I don't really have the time or patience to "see which one's right for me". So I rely on the experts and the market. Narrowed it down to Fedora, Ubuntu, and Suse. A little research, and I decided on Fedora.
Then I'm faced with DOZENS of decisions on the install. Disk partitioning, application selection, blah blah. I just want to "take the defaults" and end up with something decent. Of course one of the options is to select your desktop manager.
Well one question that I see debated all over the 'net for years is Gnome vs. KDE. And if I recall correctly, one had some issues a few years back about not being Free-Open-Source-Software. I can't remember which (I think KDE), but I wanted to stay away from that if it were still an issue. I don't have the patience to research all this stuff. I WANT someone that I trust to tell me the best way to go. (I ended up with Gnome at the time, for a few reasons.)
Well.... now after a few years of playing with linux, I have a couple Gnome machines, a couple KDE machines. Fedora, Ubuntu, and Debian on various machines. But it's pretty intimidating for the newbie, especially if you only have one machine, and you want to get it right the first time. I appreciate the input of the experts.
Incidentally MY recommendation (and I am no expert!!!) is that if I were doing it all over (having little linux experience, and installing a fresh copy over an old windows machine, for learning purposes), I'd start with Ubuntu. But the best thing about the FOSS market is that you have choices. Complement that with opinions, and it's very powerful! - sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7So you completely missed that his mom, (presumably) a non-power user, has no trouble using KDE?
- hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12There is a _huge_ difference between "being easy to use" and "_only_ being
easy to use".
That doesn't say to me that Linus is bashing Gnome for making it easier for people who don't normally use computers.
And my personal experience with Gnome is that it doesn't allow you to reorganize the applications in their equivalent of the Start Menu and QuickLaunch by dragging and dropping. This makes it easier for who exactly? - haffe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Mr. Torvalds is indeed entitled to his opinion. However, the weight of his opinion should not be affected by what he previously has done.
- bobbob1016, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8To hackwrench:
From ubuntuforums.org, and I quote aysiu:
"In Nautilus (the file manager), go to Edit > Preferences > Behavior > Single-click to activate items."
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=333382&highlight=single+click - hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6NOTE: My experience with Gnome has been with the varient installed on Ubuntu Edgy Eft
"I say painful because we've had to remove a lot of things that people were very used to in order to get a base experience that's pretty good." would seem to suggest that Gnome was more customizable in the past. - xero8472, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Gnome and KDE both have their ups and downs.
Personally I still haven't decided which I prefer, because an issue or two that frustrate me in Gnome may not be as much trouble in KDE, but KDE may piss me off with a different issue which Gnome simplifies.
If only there were a 3rd main desktop environment that combined the GOOD qualities of both Gnome and KDE. - dragazis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"I want something very simple: I want to configure my mouse button window events," explained Torvalds. "That doesn't sound so bad, does it? Everybody else can do it, gnome does not. My laptop has a two-button mouse, which means that I want the right button to do something more useful than show me the menu that I never use."
I definitely see where he is coming from as a user of both Gnome and KDE. Although KDE's simplicity isn't nearly as much as Gnome's is, the functionality to get the two button mouse on a laptop working is there and accessible. I said it in another digg article on KDE and Gnome, and I'll say it again, Gnome makes me feel like I'm in elementary school and using a computer for the first time with it's big buttons and menu bar icons, menu organization and accessibility (you don't need a menu for each thing like a mouse, keyboard, accounts, etc...a preference pane would have been much better) and more.
With this in mind, this is why I'm eagerly waiting for KDE 4's release. I know it will be easier for the user to navigate around the system, set preferences, enable certain functionality and more with out it being too simple so the user feels stupid. - HerbertScrunge, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@democracysucks
Firstly, I'd like to give you props for actually cutting down on the laundry list of complaints that you copy-and-paste (http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/Linus_fires_latest_shot_in_GNOME_Wars#c5281076) into these discussions after darkstalker's rebuttal (http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/Linus_fires_latest_shot_in_GNOME_Wars#c5282729), and for your restraint in actually posting it just the once in the same topic (http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/Linus_fires_latest_shot_in_GNOME_Wars#c5282072).
Secondly, I'd like to point out that KControl has a search function, and typing in the first few letters of "double" (as in, "I want to open files on double-click, damn it!") very rapidly brings us down to this:
http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kdedoubleclickkr5.png
Thirdly - actually, I agree with this one, kinda - if there's one thing that really exemplifies the difficulty with KDE's configuration organisation, it's the utterly surprisingly location of this setting. - thecheatah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5From the discussion, I think linus cares about gnome. It is not that hard to switch to kde and ignore gnome problems. Linus probably liked gnome more then kde and other available desktops, but had trouble with that one issue.
What I see as the common goal in most linux applications is complete user control. I have wanted features that, to me would seem to trivial to include in an application, were available from command line in the tool. Mplayer is a good example. The gui is great, but sometimes I use the command line to place indexes on unindexed clips.
What linus is saying is that have the features available. Keep them separate from the gui developers. Basically have two teams. One develops the application, the other develops the guis.
This way if their is a demand for advanced guis, their would not be a problem implementing it without having to argue with the application developers to include features.
I think linus knows what he is doing. It is true that gnome developers can do what they feel fit for their application, but what linus is trying to say is to stick to programming practices that dont end up shooting your self in the foot. Especially in community projects. You can never decide what is the "best" for the community. - bkor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"If Linus needs to get off his high horse, so do the the Gnome Devs."
That is not a GNOME developer, but just a subscriber to that mailinglist. See also http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct for the guidelines we try to follow. - sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I'm not gonna go that far. The licensing issues with QT at the time where a potential ticking time bomb, so it was rational decision to try to create a desktop based on entirely FOSS tools. I read somewhere that now KDE is "more" free than Gnome, licensing wise, ironically enough. But I'll support the right of Gnome to continue to exist. The competition can actually wind improve both desktops. Throw XFCE into the mix and Gnome can take notes on how to build a light GTK+ based desktop.
Gnome is no longer about trying to be more free, and now its about being simple and usable. The trouble is just that they go so far that it appears they think their users are idiots that can't use a web browser or a print menu. For myself, I hate to use Gnome and find it insulting. But I don't hate the Gnome project itself, or its devs (despite some of their behaviour toward Linus) or the users. - saralk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think the fact that such open discussions can take place is a good reason for why Linux is so great. Such and argument about two developers within Microsoft or Apple would never be made public, and so the public's reaction would never be considered.
Not to mention the fact that the developers would never be able to voice their opinion against the lead developers so publically in MS or Apple. - sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4At least Gnome even has a menu editor, now. When I tried a version, possibly 2.08, they had taken the menu editor out because appearanly the ability to edit the menu was too confusing. When I was thinking, "Ok, this Gnome isn't as ***** as the last one, I'll give it a shot. Wierd, this app didn't appear in the menu. I'll just add it.....WTF?!? You can't edit the menu?!? Back to KDE"
- sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Last year people where lamenting because KDE is "bloated" untill, surprise of surprises it turns that resource wise, they're actually about the same and neither is exactly light. Now people are bitching because allegedly KDE is "cluttered" No, it isn't. Everything is in its place, Kcontrol is organized efficiently and if anything this cluttered, it would be that new XP wanna-be Gnome Control Center.
Linus is not whining. He's pointing out specifically what's wrong and sent in patches to fix the damned thing. Some of the Gnome devs, however, are whinning like little bitches (But others are reasonable.) - veracon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Let's all use Xfce simply to avoid this discussion. Yay.
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Exactly, and we could all sit here posting thousands of features that have appeared in Gnome and been removed, including wanted, needed or liked features.
It wouldn't be so bad if they actually *said* it needed fixing, rewriting or additions they weren't prepared to spend time and effort on, but all you get is "we completely gutted this part of Gnome to make it more minimal" "everything we do is perfect and the best technical decision". - sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Linus is bashing gnome for making software "for idiots", " Once again, this not Linus is saying. Why do people want to take things completely out of context and misquote, etc?
- sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Maybe your distribution just likes the default KDE settings, but a default install of KDE has a configuration utility if a new user starts KDE." A lot of distros already do this
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I use Linux because I like to control what my computer does.
When I use a GUI, I want to be able to control how it looks, and control how it behaves, and for me, that's the KDE/gnome debate over *as it stands right now*, because only KDE offers about 70% of the desktop stuff I like.
For instance, I like something where I can control it *all* with a proper GUI and where I can find everything in that GUI - kcontrol gives me lots of control and it has had a search bar like amarok's for yonks so every setting it offers is one click away.
I also want discoverability - I understand interface design myself so I expect, in the GUI, for simple things to be simple and complex things to be possible. KDE offers this, but Gnome falls short on the second point. This is where the "limited" sensation people talk about comes from.
if you design a desktop which works in one way and does it well, you'll fall foul of the reality - only about 10% of people will ever be with your way of thinking, and all the rest will be trying things that won't work because those things you think "nobody uses" are usually just widely used features YOU never use.
If/when Gnome offers this more than KDE at some point, I will change to Gnome, tbh. Some Gnome apps are the best for the task, I use those, I don't see why anyone would use anything but the one with the best features for them right now. - Soapdish, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I don't know why people complain about KDE being so difficult to use without configuring anything.
I recently installed Gentoo with KDE on a computer for my mom (I'm happy to install any software for her when she asks). The process of acquainting her with KDE (and the computer) was faily simple:
1. Here's your user name and password
2. Press this button to start any app you want from the menu.
3. Look! You can have multiple desktops!
4. Turn off the computer by clicking "Log out..." and then click "turn off computer"
Wow, that was hard. Everything on that machine is KDE defaults except that I switched to a left-handed mouse for her. - InetRoadkill, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8I used gnome for a long time, but I switched to KDE. Both are fine desktops. But what caused me to switch was all the problems I ran into trying to upgrade Gnome from an earlier version. Geez, what a nightmare. I never did get it to work right -- at least not fully, and I'm a long time linux user/programmer.
The problem with gnome is that its dependency list is as long as your arm now. It's gotten to be a real bastard to satisfy all the external dependencies. KDE was much easier to deal with. - HerbertScrunge, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The large number of people asserting their love of GNOME and indifference to/ dislike of KDE suggests to me that there is in fact *every* reason for GNOME to exist.
GNOME has outgrown it's original raison d'etre as a Free alternative to Qt - now it has an entirely new set of reasons to exist, and it is still very much needed and wanted. - loconet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@sanguinemoon
eh, you are taking that quote from the gnome reply out of context. If you read the whole message* you see that a) the reason the reply was in Spanish was to illustrate that just because Linus may not read Spanish it doesn't mean he's an idiot as he himself implied about users confused with functionality. Was it a good example? I don't now. And b) the message was replying to Linus calling the users idiots. However, I agree with the spirit of your post. Both sides need to relax and discuss things without coming off as being childish. Although as already pointed out that person replying to Linus was not a developer
* original message
Linus escribió:
> This "users are idiots, and are confused by functionality" mentality of
> Gnome is a disease. If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will
> use it. I don't use Gnome, because in striving to be simple, it has long
> since reached the point where it simply doesn't do what I need it to do.
Yo también soy idiota. No se configurar la mayor parte de las opciones
del escritorio, y si he podido empezar a usar linux es porque Gnome me
lo facilitó.
No creo que todo el mundo que se tenga que sentar ante un ordenador
tenga la obligación de ser un "super programador". Hay mucha gente que
necesita usar el ordenador para tareas sencillas y no necesita saber
configurar hasta el último rincón de su escritorio.
Por eso precisamente Windows está en la posición que está, porque
entre otras cosas se preocupó por hacer un sistema operativo sencillo
de usar para la mayoría de la gente.
Yo no digo a nadie que use Gnome, pero GNOME ES BUENO porque es lo que
le hace falta a una parte importante de la sociedad, y quien quiera
más cosas, pues que no use Gnome pero que no lo critique.
A mi no me gustan los plátanos, ¡pues que exterminen los plataneros!
¿Quién es el NAZI?
Nada más, esto para LINUS para que piense.
LINUS, NO SABES LEER ESPAÑOL, ¿A VER SI VAS A SER IDIOTA TU TAMBIÉN? - -Chi.0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I think Linus feels this way is bc Gnome does not really support the spirit of Linux & open source. I feel this way is bc the beauty of Linux is that you can make it what you want & you should be able to config every thing down to the last bit, pixel or button. This is why I use Linux & thats why a lot of peeps are drawn to it. We are not stuck w/ what ever the default setting are, we can just change it on the fly. Personally i have used both KDE & Gnome as well as other desktop environments. I have choesen to go down the KDE path bc I love the huge setting menu bc i have learned it & like being able to just change it or mod a confing file w/ out having to do research to see if i will break it. If you think about it even Microsoft is changing their ways on configuring the desk top & usability. Which means that even the most computer eliterit person still whats to have control over their computing experience. Really this does show something. The reality is that it does not need to be what you want be default & that does take all the fun out of playing w/ you computer for weeks on in just so you can press one button to do 5 things or what ever.
Sorry about the last blurb of death, but i did have put down some deep real feelings about this subject.
You all are here bc you believe in Linux & the values it holds dear to your harts. The truth is that I can respect all the pros & cons for both desktops as well as the others out their. This is really a touchy subject bc Linux really has become more then a operating system or a way to compute. It have Evolved in to a way of life and or Religion. We can sitt and have a pissing match about which is better or not but the we really need to sitting down and see if we just join the two desktops or should we leave them be.
Linus rebuttal is just saying that Gnome is just not supporting the Linux way by taking freedoms form the user & that it's not right for Gnome to take that away from the users bc it should be the user to decide what they want not some one else.
Bc Gnome has gone this direction that is why I use KDE on a usability level & on LinuxOpen source way of live level. I have been using Linux it seems forever & not so long. but every time I boot up I feel just a little better I made my choice to switch.
I now this was longer than hell & fell free to flame me, but deep inside we all fell how we feel about Linux & It's you right to choose you Computing experience.
LinuxOpen source for life & thank you for your time.
-Chi.0 out. - ubuwalker31, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Perhaps GNOME needs multiple levels. The regular setting could be a very simplified GNOME desktop. An intermediate setting could be a more complicated and feature rich. Advanced and Expert and Guru settings could be made as well. I like both GNOME and KDE, but I like using GNOME better, because it feels cleaner to me. However, I'd appreciate some more options.
- AquaFox, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I wouldn't hate to see a Desktop Enviroment by Linux Torvalds.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 106 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is 