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Linus Torvalds says OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of ...

article.gmane.org — "I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys"

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  • likwidtek, on 07/15/2008, -34/+187amen.
    • mem2, on 07/16/2008, -2/+17while its nice to cheer on like this is Jerry Springer, he did actually have a very good point.
      http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/701694/ ...
      FTL: when you fix a bug, the commit describes what it fixes without omitting
      anything relevant. when you fix a security bug, its commit doesn't say
      what it fixes (not even that it's a security fix, never mind actual
      impact information), that is, you omit relevant information (based on
      some ill-conceived argument that i deconstructed at the beginning). in
      other words, you're *not* treating security bugs as normal bugs. for
      all intents and purposes, you cover them up. i *wish* you did treat
      them as normal bugs however.

      cheers,
      Pax Team
    • Gimpy1983, on 07/16/2008, -7/+1Ironically, if you fix the small bugs in many cases it filters through and fix's the security hole.

      If port x not not open then
      close port x
      else
      proceed
      end if

      Is it a bug, is it a security hole? who cares if its supposed to be closed its a problem.
      • starquake, on 07/16/2008, -0/+5Huh? What?

        How can you close a port that's not open?

        Trying to understand your post makes my head hurt.
      • cesclaveria, on 07/16/2008, -0/+4he put a double negative there, "If port x _not not_ open then", so I guess is still valid.
    • heldlik, on 07/16/2008, -3/+15Is he trying to tell us that he is NOT a monkey, and that he DOESN'T masturbate?

      Yeah right.....
    • rpgmaker, on 07/16/2008, -11/+6It's that time of the year again? When Torvalds make those controversial and assholish claims...
    • vat0r, on 07/16/2008, -5/+7So Linus gets a hair across his ass one day and half of you who have absolutely no damn clue what he's talking about agree like it's the word of God. I wonder what he thinks about Diggers? Now that would be front page worthy.

      Digg down will commence in three, two, one....
    • nickbertovich, on 07/16/2008, -0/+4And a great deal of the Linux crowd are lunatic crusaders. Torvalds needs to pull his head out of his ass.
  • matthekc, on 07/15/2008, -21/+180Everybody take cover the openbsd monkey's are going to fling poo at us for this one.
    • mmmdelishus, on 07/16/2008, -2/+51Poo is the least of your worries
      • RaulMuadDib, on 07/16/2008, -3/+1Jizzstastic
      • polloconjamon, on 07/16/2008, -6/+1you're dumb. this is for you.

        |/|
        |/|
        |/|
        |/|
        |/|
        |/| /¯)
        |/|//
        |/|/
        (¯¯¯)
        (¯¯¯)
        (¯¯¯)
        (¯¯¯)
        (¯¯¯)
        /¯¯/
        / ,^./
        / / /
        / / /
        ( ( )/)
        | | |/|
        | | |/|
        | | |/|
        ( ( )/)
        / /
        `---' /
        `-----'
      • Purin, on 07/16/2008, -1/+3What the hell IS that?
      • iJessicaRabbit, on 07/16/2008, -1/+2Lamp post?
      • StormTroopr, on 07/16/2008, -1/+3Lightsaber?
    • mem2, on 07/16/2008, -2/+9brace yourselves for alot of linux exploits from openbsd hackers :P
      • nmnnotmyname, on 07/16/2008, -2/+6= XD.
        For various reasons.
      • microchp, on 07/16/2008, -3/+3The Masturbating Monkeys couldn't hack their way out of a decayed paper bag. Have they finally gotten around to adding SMP support yet? Doubt it.
      • ike368, on 07/16/2008, -1/+1GOOD ONE.
    • p3ngwin, on 07/16/2008, -5/+11oh i wish i could the Digg button of this very page often and everywhere like a cheap whore.

      "I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys"
      and then:
      "Everybody take cover the openbsd monkey's are going to fling poo at us for this one."

      this page has everything i need :)
  • TheWindBlows, on 07/16/2008, -15/+237I got to agree with the guy. Security is just one piece of something. You can make something as secure as you want but if everything else sucks, then what you have is a worthless piece of crap wrapped in cast iron armor.
    • known, on 07/16/2008, -12/+2We need different type of upgrades for each distribution.
      For example

      1. apt-get func-upgrade (upgrades packages with new features)
      2. apt-get secu-upgrade (security upgrades)
      3. apt-get perf-upgrade (replaces with optimized packages)
      4. apt-get usab-upgrade (replaces with better usability packages)
      • rodrigo74, on 07/16/2008, -0/+8Things are too interlocked for that to be viable; and the discussions over what changeset should be where would be interminable.
      • marx2k, on 07/16/2008, -0/+5Why wouldn't I want to upgrade with all 4 features at once? I want new features, security, optimization and better usability!
      • nmnnotmyname, on 07/16/2008, -0/+2Commits are indeed a mix of everything. Whence a new version is released, usually more than one commit occured and they must occur loosely in the order they were created. So seperating security updates and other things would be absolutely insane - not to mention pretty useless...
      • Origin415, on 07/16/2008, -0/+2Ubuntu differentiates between security and other upgrades, you can set it so only upgrades with security fixes get installed.
    • cenarta, on 07/16/2008, -4/+47Um, no what you get is one damn good OS for a firewall.
      • nanajeebus, on 07/16/2008, -2/+14Exactly. The armor is so good that not a damn thing is getting *near* that piece of crap!
      • mem2, on 07/16/2008, -5/+14linus is suffering security envy
      • Gutterpunk, on 07/16/2008, -2/+14Exactly. "For a firewall" is what everyone does with OpenBSD, but still it is advertised as the second coming of the Christ by it's fan, thus earning the moniker of "masturbating monkeys"

    • manishsinha27, on 07/16/2008, -2/+7Me too agree! OpenBSD is secure! I agree on that point,but we need a distro which can be used at any place apart from servers.
      We general people also use Computers, do think also about us...
      • nmnnotmyname, on 07/16/2008, -9/+1You're probably not a native english speaker so no offense but
        "Me too agree!" should be "I Agree!"

        And

        Linux and OpenBSD aren't for general users. Typically you don't need strong firewalls on desktop PCs because you're not a large target for attacks, like a webserving computer would be. If you plan to do webserving it's best you learn your OS and the technology involved inside and out.
      • championchap, on 07/16/2008, -1/+9"Typically you don't need strong firewalls on desktop PCs because you're not a large target for attacks, like a webserving computer would be."

        THANK YOU!
        Now if you could just convince my old "web" teacher of this?

        I once gave a presentation where i stated that Windows is simply a more insecure OS than, say, Linux or BSD.
        She said it was just that nobody used them.

        Somehow she didn't see sites like Amazon as being worthwhile targets for hackers. THE WOMAN'S NUTS.
      • Spuy767, on 07/16/2008, -1/+8It goes back to the old stat, and I'm rounding off big time, 75% percent of webservers run on Apache, but 75% of attacks are on IIS servers. It's not because there's no reason to attack an Apache server, it's just that you're bang for buck in time spent attacking a IIS server will produce far more results.
    • Joomal, on 07/16/2008, -3/+8OpenBSD is not meant to be a desktop machine - it is meant to be a very secure firewall or perimeter machine.

      I love OpenBSD, but I only use it for OpenVPN servers, Firewalls, and Routers. As for desktop machines I use linux (usually fedora or ubuntu flavours.)

      Talk about calling the kettle black. Linus says that he hates everyone that makes things black and white - I think it is he that is calling things black and white by labeling OpenBSD people as masturbating monkeys.

      j
      • RaulMuadDib, on 07/16/2008, -1/+2Why is it called OpenBSD if it is so closed?
      • inksmithy, on 07/16/2008, -0/+2well no, he could have called them a pack of dogs licking their own balls, or a mix of cats licking each others bums. Hardly black and white, there are loads of other things he could have called them.
      • Joomal, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1"Why is it called OpenBSD if it is so closed?"

        Go back to your Vista install nub.
    • georgewellsca, on 07/16/2008, -0/+2I could not have said it better!
    • anonmass, on 07/16/2008, -5/+0This sounds a lot like vista very secure but very buggy.
    • directedition, on 07/16/2008, -0/+4And yet, the fact of the matter is that we need OpenBSD. It's not MEANT to be an operating system for the masses. Linux accomplishes that just fine, and Ubuntu is wonderful for it. OpenBSD has specific uses, and I think it's kinda rude to knock them for being a niche.

      In some places, security really does trump all. If you're a sys admin at the CIA, someone breaking in and stealing all your data could be many times more devastating than a catastrophic system failure. Or even just a hardware development company. Sometimes the early release of information has caused ruin and bankruptcy.

      The right tool for the right job. Linux is a great desktop OS. OpenBSD is great for applications where security is important. OSX is the best of the best for film editing and production systems.

      It's fine to have your own way of doing things, it's not so fine to make fun of others for not following your example. I admire Linus Torvalds, and he's one of my great heroes. But I don't back up his position here.
    • dukeochutney, on 07/16/2008, -1/+1and what do you get doing the opposite....windows.
  • leodavinci, on 07/16/2008, -13/+87instant classic
    • yertthedigger, on 07/16/2008, -1/+8Isn't it? Plus now we have the name of the next Ubuntu release.
  • JoemcC00L, on 07/16/2008, -12/+48Ohhh snap... it's on now!!

    /s
  • HumanCattle, on 07/16/2008, -19/+42EVERYONE HATES YOU THEO.
    • aeoo, on 07/16/2008, -4/+21I actually like Theo. Theo is cool. But so is Linus. :) Linus also has some "dumb ass" moments of his own. It's all good.
    • apcfreak, on 07/16/2008, -1/+44I don't mind Theo, but the rest of the Huxtables are pretty annoying after the first season.
    • NSResponder, on 07/16/2008, -9/+9Theo has rather more claim to coding cred than Linus does.

      -jcr
      • SupaNeo, on 07/16/2008, -3/+12Really? Linus coded and created Linux from scratch. Theo forked BSD.

        There might be something that I'm overlooking, but from that general bit of info, I'd say Linus would have more cred.
      • SgtHobo, on 07/16/2008, -0/+5Theo was one of the founders of NetBSD.
    • phatagnus, on 07/16/2008, -2/+9He hates you, Theo because there's no decent pf replacement for Linux ;-)
      PF coolness, that's what it is.
  • cenarta, on 07/16/2008, -3/+89I wouldn't really run it for much else, but IMHO OpenBSD makes a damn good firewall. We have run it for years without ever having an intrusion, and you should see the number of script kiddies pf blocks.
    • wyrdness, on 07/16/2008, -2/+27You're right. OpenBSD boxes make great firewalls, and I much prefer configuring BSD's ipfw to Linux's iptables.

    • blackjack75, on 07/16/2008, -6/+20I have a linksys wifi router as my "firewall", I haven't had any intrusions either... does that make linksys routers the panacea?
      • grumpyrain, on 07/16/2008, -1/+9yes.
      • spydon, on 07/16/2008, -5/+11Not any intrusions that you know of, yes. ;)
      • Origin415, on 07/16/2008, -3/+3But they are plenty more secure if you take off their linux based OS and put on OpenBSD :D
      • Kamujin, on 07/16/2008, -1/+9@spydon

        Well, "not that you know of" can be applied to anyone running any system.

        :-)
    • kalvinb, on 07/16/2008, -1/+8Hacks are generally done through exploitation of software running on open ports.

      It's a pretty trivial job to keep ports closed.

      The hard part is securing software handling requests on the open ports which has nothing to do with what firewall you use.

      A firewall shouldn't be configurable unless you're plugged directly into it. Again, not a hard thing to do.

      I have a $30 little Network Everywhere router that does a fine job of closing ports and not being remotely configurable. It's just as secure as your OpenBSD system, costs significantly less and uses a lot less power to run.
    • knopper67, on 07/16/2008, -2/+3"IMHO OpenBSD makes a damn good condom."

      FIXED.
    • unitedatheism, on 07/16/2008, -0/+1What's the probability of a router with no services running to internet being compromised?
      I'm not saying that BSD is not a secure OS or anything, but computers nowadays have to do a lot more than that to be considered something great I guess......
      And I still can't understand how come people blame iptables, most of the firewalls I've seen so far don't use even half of the iptables features, so why people complain about it? They should tell people how to build a firewall instead of just wanting what 1337 people claim is good.
      Last but not least, we employ bsd as firewall at work, but we could use Linux just as well.
    • xsquirrel378x, on 07/16/2008, -0/+3Don't forget best SSH client too
  • Br3ach, on 07/16/2008, -17/+5And he'd be right
  • Tralobyte, on 07/16/2008, -7/+237Man, Torvalds sure knows how to piss a group of people off.
    • CountBrass, on 07/16/2008, -38/+12Torvalds is an idiot living off the work of other people.

      These days he's just a glorified part-time project manager for the kernel. And most of "Linux" was written by other people anyway. If the BSD team are a bunch of "masterbating monkeys" then Torvalds is a "babbling baboon" with more in common with Paris Hilton: they're both expert self publicicsts.
      • reginaldino, on 07/16/2008, -3/+24although in total he has contributed a small amount to the whole linux kernel, he has contributed the most when compared to other individuals.
      • nmnnotmyname, on 07/16/2008, -2/+18Well damn, he gets credit for actually being able to organize an effort like this, does he not?
        You go start an OS and see just how many people come on board - like what, maybe 2 - 6 if you're good but you'll never get anything useful out of that many people.
      • Kr0nyk, on 07/16/2008, -0/+6What? I don't think Torvalds is a self publicist. Once there is a Torvalds and Stallman sex tape floating around on the net then I think it would be safe to say that.
      • Mooinakan, on 07/16/2008, -1/+4Hey, maybe some day when an entire operating system is named after you, then you can pretend you are half as significant as the guy. Until then, just shut up and respect what he has to say. How about it?
    • arobicha, on 07/16/2008, -17/+5Torvalds is too full of himself to have a valid opinion. It seems the only time he ever really steps into the spotlight is to insult a project based off of/built for Linux, stammer around, and fall asleep in a dumpster.
      • DyceFreak, on 07/16/2008, -12/+2I agree, I mean how relevant is this ***** anyways? when was the last time he contributed a line of code, as opposed to a ***** linux biased one liner to the linux community... Bill Gates has probably done more recently for Linux than linus...
    • sk11, on 07/16/2008, -9/+4Torvalds is not the emperor of linux.
      • Yareking, on 07/16/2008, -0/+12TORVALDS IS THE EMPEROR OF LINUX AND THE GALAXY

        omg sry cap
      • RaulMuadDib, on 07/16/2008, -1/+8LEAVE LINUS ALONE!!!
      • Definition, on 07/16/2008, -5/+1Is it possible to have an emperor of Linux?
      • sk11, on 07/16/2008, -1/+3Where the ***** do some of you come from? Watch more south park ffs.
    • Neverclear, on 07/16/2008, -0/+8Dude he's been trolling the Internet since it was Usenet.

      Torvald invented flame baiting geeks and has been doing it to Gates for over a decade. He probably even thinks Janeway was the best Star Trek captain... not because he gives a damn he just loves getting all up in the grill of the nerds.
      • latrosicarius, on 07/16/2008, -1/+2I fail to see your irony because it's a fact that Janeway is indeed the best star trek captain.
      • agentlame, on 07/16/2008, -0/+2Amen, and it's ***** hilarious every time.
      • arobicha, on 07/17/2008, -2/+1As if Gates give a ***** about what Torvalds has to say.
  • uglypercy, on 07/16/2008, -20/+33The worst people in every discipline tend to specialize in security issues.
  • dagol, on 07/16/2008, -22/+6and.. the OpenBSD guys just keeps on cumming!!
  • buckchoris, on 07/16/2008, -36/+13Since Mac is based on openBSD I think the mac fanboys would become emo and will be cursing this guy for a while now.

    Mac fanboys=A bunch of wanking monkeys.
    • xerox, on 07/16/2008, -10/+6'Cept how many Mac owners know what openBSD is?
      • Spuy767, on 07/16/2008, -3/+1::Raises hand::

        I use the command line for at least two thirds of my configuration tasks.
    • kingmanic, on 07/16/2008, -11/+11Thats a stylish bunch of wanking monkeys.
    • tama00, on 07/16/2008, -16/+4Mac os is based of nextstep you loser. Which in return then based of BSD, not openBSD or freeBSD, just plain BSD.

      Go back to Computers 101 before you start criticising about stuff you don't know.
      • cheesecake42, on 07/16/2008, -2/+4nextstep is just a company. mac osx is based on darwin which is based on openbsd

        therefore mac os is based on bsd...who's the loser now
      • xsquirrel378x, on 07/16/2008, -0/+2^ FreeBSD actually. Easy how you talk ***** back ;-)
    • Berkana, on 07/16/2008, -1/+35The MacOS X kernel, Darwin, is based on FreeBSD, not OpenBSD.
      • directedition, on 07/16/2008, -0/+1I could have sworn OSX was based on NeXTSTEP.
      • caramba420, on 07/16/2008, -0/+1No, the kernel is based on Mach, which came from Carnegie Mellon. Mach was originally designed to be a replacement for the BSD kernel, so it provides BSD system calls.
      • Cowboy1015, on 07/16/2008, -1/+1Okay.... so MAC crowd are just gay monkeys... that's why they don't masturbate.
    • breakerjump, on 07/16/2008, -2/+8No, dullard, OS X is 'based on' BSD. If you must boil it down, it references FreeBSD mostly, but there's more to Darwin than just the Nextstep BSD implementation.
    • santaliqueur, on 07/16/2008, -7/+9Funny how the "Mac fanboys" are absent from this discussion, and you are more fanatical than those you attempt to mock. How about shutting the ***** up and let people use whatever computer they want without trying to start a fight.
    • Papajohn56, on 07/16/2008, -9/+3lol wait, since when is mac based on openBSD. learn your distributions before you talk ***** linux fanboy
      • MacParrot, on 07/16/2008, -2/+6Or why not just don't talk *****? The moment you start throwing out "fanboy" you pretty much establish what kind of person you are PJ
      • bigsteve, on 07/16/2008, -0/+4Yea. And your pizza? It's okay at best.
    • wildfire, on 07/16/2008, -1/+8Mac OS X Kernel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU

      *Part Mach, part FreeBSD, part Apple-derived code and a userland much of which comes from FreeBSD
    • nmnnotmyname, on 07/16/2008, -2/+2Mac fanboys over do it, but so do Ubuntu fanboys (So much that Ubuntard is often recognizable as Ubuntu fanboy)

      And as already stated.... You mean FreeBSD, not OpenBSD. But I do like reading the responces of the people who read this, Apparently Linus isn't the only one who knows how to piss off a group of people XD
  • dr34m, on 07/16/2008, -1/+0
    • xerox, on 07/16/2008, -0/+6I know you get urges to say things when you are high, but leave it off the comments.
  • Zuwxiv, on 07/16/2008, -22/+12I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome Linux Mint is.
    • marx2k, on 07/16/2008, -1/+7Call me when there's a 64-bit version available.
    • championchap, on 07/16/2008, -0/+1I'm sorry, call me when Linux Mint LOOKS elegant as default.
      At the moment it looks hideous.

      Normally i wouldn't care too much, but to advertise itself as "elegant" and then look like that is inexcusable.
  • Jarulf, on 07/16/2008, -6/+132Well, time to update the "10 best Linus Torvalds Quotes" that was on firstpage a few days ago.
  • tama00, on 07/16/2008, -38/+74Linus Torvald is such a bad tempered guy.

    He's criticised the KDE project and also some linux distros.

    Linus Torvald does not represent the Linux community is simple just holds the trademark for the name Linux and does kernel work.

    As another Linux developer, I personally don't support his views.
    • Dracusis, on 07/16/2008, -11/+29Aren't all brilliant men also the biggest assholes?

      To name but a few; Leonardo da Vinci, Steve Jobs...
      • tama00, on 07/16/2008, -25/+5Where the hell did you pull that idea from? and since when was Steve Jobs an *****?
      • Dracusis, on 07/16/2008, -1/+26Since when ~hasn't~ he been an *****?

        Do some reading, most people say he's always had a short fuse. Google "Steve Jobs" and "*****" and have a read about some of his many dummy spits over the years, it's rather entertaining.
      • paulsmith288, on 07/16/2008, -1/+41Leonardo da Vinci > Steve Jobs
      • blackjack75, on 07/16/2008, -3/+15Oh really? So why didn't Leonardo invent the iSocks if he's so smart?
      • Anorhc, on 07/16/2008, -5/+32Steve Jobs was brilliant?
      • yurimxpxman, on 07/16/2008, -0/+22Because he was too busy inventing the world's first flying machine, machine gun, submarine, and painting Jesus on a gigantic wall that stood through a bloody war.
      • mem2, on 07/16/2008, -5/+10since when was Jobs a Brilliant ?!! maybe a Brilliant Arsehole ?
      • marx2k, on 07/16/2008, -1/+3yurimxpxman: the fact that the wall stood through a war has nothing to do with Leonardo
      • championchap, on 07/16/2008, -7/+1Steve Jobs isn't brilliant now?
        I don't even own a mac.. but surely you can all see that he has done some impressive things?
        He brought us a music store, a really successful one.
        He brought apple back from the edge.
        He sold us all the iPod.

        Isn't that alone enough?

        Sure he's done a lot of selfish things with it, but he still runs a business.
      • TrevorPace, on 07/16/2008, -1/+10The thought that you would list da Vinci and Jobs together on a list of brilliant people is offensive...to everyone.

        You could have listed Einstein, Gates, Newton, Euler...you know people that actually did something.
      • Spire3660, on 07/16/2008, -3/+0At some point we will have to reconcile modern figures with historical titans. Id say Steve Jobs has sucessfully earned a place on the list. He is a dominant figure in MANY tech circles including movies (pixar, owns largest single share of Disney PERSONALLY), music (largest online music store ever), 21st century television (appleTV). He can also successfully dictate to music companies prices(forced $.99 per song). While im not saying hes brilliant on the level on DaVinci or Einstein, his ability to fight against SEVERAL entrenched monopolies at once and win is unmatched. I am by no means a fanboy, but the biggest PERSONAL contribution i see from Bill Gates is the formalization of the software license, and now world's biggest philanthropist ( which is a wonderful legacy IMO, although personally i think it would benefit mankind more if he coughed up the windows source code but meh, im a technologist. )
      • whataboutdave, on 07/16/2008, -0/+5Please tell me you did not just equate DaVinci with Steve Jobs.

        I'm loving the 2.0 firmware just as much as you are but let's be serious, shall we?
      • 1timeuser, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2yeah... Steve is a pretty big *****.
    • DeathfireD, on 07/16/2008, -3/+57He criticized Gnome not KDE. He loves KDE and swears by it.
      • yurimxpxman, on 07/16/2008, -13/+1yeah... wtf? tama00 is a "Linux developer"? What a dumbass. I'd call him a masturbating monkey, but I'm not quite certain whether anal penetration counts.

        Linus Torvalds IS the Linux community; the Linux kernel is legally his to do with as he pleases. It's only by his good graces that he released it under the GPL to allow the free software community to use it, after that whole Hurd debacle.
      • Culyt, on 07/16/2008, -3/+15No the Linux community is the Linux community, Linus is only in charge so long as the community wants him to be, that is part of what it means to have software under the GPL. If Linus decided to go insane (insaner?) and started making horrible design decisions then eventually someone would fork Linux, provided what he was doing was bad enough to warrant it and attract > %50 of the core developers.

        Its just one of the reasons why OpenSource is a great system, it protects projects even from their own creators.

        ☢
      • nmnnotmyname, on 07/16/2008, -6/+10Well obviously becuase KDE is awesome.
      • Karai, on 07/16/2008, -5/+2☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢☢
      • P373Y, on 07/16/2008, -0/+3you broke digg
    • nmnnotmyname, on 07/16/2008, -3/+15Hell, I totally agree with him about GNOME (what he really critisized) - They're so up their ass in usability that they've actually forgotten that nobody gives a ***** if it takes four years to get used to. I wish GNOME were more geared for the user...

      Where is the usability in the GtkFileDialog? It takes me WAY longer to get near the file i want, It's hard to get to files that are not the same extension as the filetype and the fileview is very annoying to use. And now in GIMP I can only use each file dialog once and they stop working. Then i have to restart and Gah...
    • bradleyland, on 07/16/2008, -0/+4It takes a powerful personality to bring focus and direction to a project. Look at the strongest players in software and you'll see that at the head of most is a person that many consider to be a bit of an ***** (in some cases a raging *****).
    • Technohamster, on 07/16/2008, -0/+6Every once in a while gnome removes a feature because the developers think users are stupid. Torvalds is right, they should stop doing that, it's annoying.
    • directedition, on 07/16/2008, -0/+6I don't support his view here, but I don't think he's bad tempered. He's just frank. He says what he says not because of malice, but because it's what he really thinks.
    • r3negadeX, on 08/11/2008, -0/+3He certainly ain't shy about his opinions. Although his lambasting of C++ did piss me off a little...
    • illegalcortex, on 07/16/2008, -0/+5I'd say Linus represents the Linux community very well. In fact he represents the whole internet community (myself included) very well. He has strong negative opinions on a lot of things and will spout them off even when nobody is asking.
    • mattgilberg, on 07/16/2008, -5/+1Well, seeing as how he invented the damn OS, he should have some say in it's representation.
    • Cryoniq, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1He is Finnish, what do you expect? (great.. now I started a flamewar between Sweden and Finland.. :P). Stuff Finlandians are good at is: Swear, fight with knives, sauna, get really really drunk and messing good with people... :P

      Oh, and make delicious babes (that sadly have the ooogliest language in the world.. ).
  • karolisonline, on 07/16/2008, -18/+9this one is funny. Torvald felt sore about security bug because it wasn't his bug people were talking about... WHEN your security is breached I don't think anything else matters thereafter...
  • Buzzpatrol, on 07/16/2008, -28/+21Linus Torvalds has been my hero since the 80's and he does not disappoint. Ever since a discussion at an Microsoft even!!! (Yes, he was there) Sweden back in 1995 I have known how sharp his tongue is!
    • Papajohn56, on 07/16/2008, -16/+8there's a difference between having a sharp tongue, and needing to grow the ***** up
      • MeneerR, on 07/16/2008, -2/+6Ah the being impolite == being childish meme.

        It's just ain true though. A lot of people get less polite when they get older. Hence, when you grow up, you too get to be an ***** like the rest of us ;-)
    • giskard88, on 07/16/2008, -1/+41wow. you we're a fan of him in the 80's? given he wrote Linux 0.01 in 1991, that's pretty amazing.
    • custal, on 07/16/2008, -2/+19I'm sure I'm gonna get grilled for this, but ...

      Either you are from Finland or there must be some temporal glitch, since Linux wasn't made public before August 1991.
      • neonpulse, on 07/16/2008, -0/+10Linus was attending the University of Helsinki in the 80s and he was establishing his radical views even then, Buzzpatrol could have been a fan of his even before he created Linux.
      • custal, on 07/16/2008, -0/+6@neon:
        See the reference to Finland in my comment? According to his profile, Buzz is from Sweden, but I doubt they met at Helsinki university, since Linus started studying in 1988 and back then Buzz was a mere 13 years old.
  • jacekpoplawski, on 07/16/2008, -14/+2I fully agree with his post, very good point.
  • Papajohn56, on 07/16/2008, -24/+12torvalds is the world's biggest troll, first he releases a prank OS like linux and people take it seriously, now he insults BSD. brilliant.
    • Tralobyte, on 07/16/2008, -9/+5You're gonna get dugg down by a bunch of kids who don't know the history.
      • xerox, on 07/16/2008, -0/+11Someone care to inform us?
      • Tralobyte, on 07/16/2008, -2/+2"In 1991, in Helsinki, Linus Torvalds began a project that later became the Linux kernel. It was initially a terminal emulator, which Torvalds used to access the large UNIX servers of the university. He wrote the program specifically for the hardware he was using and independent of an operating system because he wanted to use the functions of his new PC with an 80386 processor." ~Wikipedia
      • echodots, on 07/16/2008, -0/+4Doesn't sound like a prank to me... dugged.
    • gzusfreak, on 07/16/2008, -1/+7Well...if you want to get into technicalities, Linux isnt really an OS

      Just sayin'
  • Papajohn56, on 07/16/2008, -4/+89openBSD's entire purpose is security, and many developers of other systems take their advances and apply them to other distributions of BSD and linux, it's a cutting edge research platform. Search through several linux security packages and I'm sure you'll find plenty borrowed from OpenBSD.

    What is Linus' purpose in talking trash about other developers trying to better open source computing?
    • bratterscain, on 07/16/2008, -2/+7Ego. Forget Windows, I think that may be one of the biggest threats to the OSS movement. When you all contribute to code, heads are going to be butted about who's code or ideas actually get used.
    • CountBrass, on 07/16/2008, -15/+9Torvalds has always been about self-aggrandisment. Calling an OS "Linux" when he contributed nothing to the vast majority of it is the case in point and this childish rant is just a continuation of that.

      You can almost hear the thought process "hmm no-one's listening to me anymore because well let's face it I'm not exactly a great success. Oh! I know, I'll start slagging off people who are actually doing useful stuff".
      • d3matt, on 07/16/2008, -0/+5You can call it a GNU OS the day there is a GNU kernel. If I so chose, I could run entirely proprietary applications on top of the linux kernel.
      • joebaloney, on 07/16/2008, -2/+9You are dumb. First of all Linus didn't name the OS some guy at the university that distributed it did. Second of all, at the time the OS was released, he had contributed EVERYTHING to it and has still contributed way more than any other single person.
      • srg13, on 07/16/2008, -1/+7Yeah, he kind of wrote all of the first few releases...
    • matris77, on 07/16/2008, -1/+21Exactly, look at OpenSSH, the world would be a lot worse if we were still all using telnet to administer our servers. The OpenBSD team also gave us privilege separation.
    • reepax, on 07/16/2008, -3/+1um how many drugs did you take before writing that? you do realize w^x was stolen directly from pax? ( pax.grsecurity.net )
  • curiousgrge, on 07/16/2008, -16/+7OpenBSD moving forward will now be known as Open Baboons Spanking Dicks.

    OpenBSD, are you ready?
    Linux, are you ready?

    Let's get it on!
    • maninalift, on 07/16/2008, -1/+10Baboons are apes not monkeys.
      • curiousgrge, on 07/16/2008, -3/+2The fact that you are trying to correct me shows me that you're in the OpenBSD camp. Anyway, unless you've got a more fitting acronym that works with it, I'll stick with baboon.

        "Monkeys vs Apes:

        * apes have larger bodies and relatively larger brains (and prolonged period of infant dependence means single births are spaced at long intervals)
        * apes lack tails
        * apes have mobile, rotary shoulder joint which allows them to brachiate and hang from their arms (monkeys are quadrupeds that jump and run along the tops of branches or on the ground)
        * apes have wider torso and shorter, stiffer lumbar region"

        So unless you can show me a picture of a baboon (not Photoshopped) without a tail, I think that qualifies as a monkey. If you're going to try and correct me on semantics, at least be sure you're correct.
    • MacParrot, on 07/16/2008, -0/+2Get your hands off me you damn dirty Linux!

      Just doesn't have the same effect
    • echodots, on 07/16/2008, -0/+2Now that is hilarious!

      " Open Baboons Spanking Dicks" Very funny indeed.
  • OswaldKenobi, on 07/16/2008, -11/+76Linus is a very angry man.
    • Papajohn56, on 07/16/2008, -9/+46what do you expect, he's the leader of the army of virgin nerds
      • mem2, on 07/16/2008, -3/+4So your saying terrorist get the linux kernel dev team in their heaven ? Gipped !
      • nmnnotmyname, on 07/16/2008, -5/+1@mem2: hrm, what? Are you trying to flame Linux? I can't really make out what you're saying.
        @Papajohn56: That's actually funny, not offensive, for I, a geek using Linux... Anyways i better stop, I got to remember not to feed the troll this time.
      • echodots, on 07/16/2008, -0/+5HEY! To keep this straight, I'm not in an army.

        (lol)
      • Cryoniq, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1Careful.. or a virgin penguin with a genuine finnish knife in one hand and koskenkorva in the other will stab you in the back while you are asleep :P
    • kaihh, on 07/16/2008, -6/+4oh haha i get it anyone that uses linux are nerds and are virgins right???

      thats pure comedy, i mean really, stereotypes!
      • nmnnotmyname, on 07/16/2008, -0/+4The majority is. And How do I know this?... Let's just say... Personal expierence.

        But man i hate being a geek sometimes.
    • an0nym0us, on 07/16/2008, -3/+1With a name like that, I know I would.
  • Threlly1, on 07/16/2008, -14/+6I hope Linus isn't starting to believe his own press, pride before a fall and all that.
    • MeneerR, on 07/16/2008, -1/+5No worries, he's not changing.


      He was always like this. From day 1.

      • nmnnotmyname, on 07/16/2008, -1/+1Yes, and a lot of people like that... He seems to have done a hell of a lot based on it.

        Though, the coding guidelines should probably change now that nobody in their right minds works on a small ass terminal. (The code is made to perserve lines). Typically, I prefer ANSI style indentations (I think that's the closest to my style) with any small adaptions for readability.
  • Technoloki, on 07/16/2008, -11/+2Now there's a pride obliterating bitch slap for ya! Wha-POW!
  • DocHoliday22, on 07/16/2008, -12/+13Seems like another guy shoved too far up his own backside....
  • stikkitjim, on 07/16/2008, -8/+68Linus has become such an ego maniac - but I suppose that if you have emails from millions of geeks everyday saying how much they love you, and people calling you genius in every press article, that's going to happen.

    He's like Yngwie Malmsteen - but for Free software!

    • jnordb, on 07/16/2008, -3/+11Dugg for the Yngwie reference.
    • MrTulip, on 07/16/2008, -2/+16but unlike yngwie, torvalds' masturbatory frenzy has actually brought the world some good.
    • CountBrass, on 07/16/2008, -2/+8Actually Linus "Paris Hilton" Torvalds is for *Open* software.

      Torvalds has never believed in *Free* software.
    • stikkitjim, on 07/16/2008, -3/+2I forget he's part of the Eric Raymond crowd... then again I can talk /me hides "nvidia restricted" package
    • Cenobite, on 07/16/2008, -0/+6"You have unleashed the ***** fury!"
    • echodots, on 07/16/2008, -0/+5For the record, I've only sent 1 email and MAYBE at the end there was some reference to some godly figure but that's not the point!!

      (Linus is God)
    • stikkitjim, on 07/16/2008, -0/+1It's only a matter of time before there is a statue of him, labeled as "The Bhudda Of Open Source" with another statue of an angry Stallman statue correcting it's terminology.
  • koft, on 07/16/2008, -9/+40Torvalds must be drunk posting again. The central driving force behind modern OS architecture is dealing with security. If this wasn't the case all our systems would be flat mode OS's and all the data between the kernel and intra process message passing would just be simple read writes between shared memory segments with no restrictions what so ever, it would be fast as hell but totally unsuitable for todays environment. I know Torvalds takes security seriously but I think he's dead wrong when he says a kernel lockup is EQUAL in severity to a security bug that lets arbitrary code do what ever it wants in kernel space. One situation leads to a reboot, the other leads people with their pants down. Reboots are cheap, strangers walking off with your private data or your customers private data is *expensive*.
    • mKdiR, on 07/16/2008, -6/+1geek
      • 1timeuser, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1moose ***** eating, diarrhea drinking, cockbiting, butt rapist.
    • kaihh, on 07/16/2008, -4/+6Reboots and shutdowns are cheap?

      boy you better tell that to amazon.com or something
    • weegee101, on 07/16/2008, -5/+7Reboots are not cheap. I'm not sure how much you've actually worked with Linux in a business environment, but most servers take much longer to reboot than your average Desktop PC. I'm not even talking about the OS loading either; server hardware often has to run self diagnostics, which is really what you're paying for when you pay the extra bucks.

      That isn't to say that security isn't important... Torvalds even said that it is, but you can't ignore the other bugs too, which is exactly what OpenBSD does in many cases. He's hit the nail dead on the head with his comment. A kernel panic should most definitely be on the same severity as a security hole.
      • koft, on 07/16/2008, -1/+6The issue that you and many people don't understand is that a strict kernel panic bug isn't the same as a security flaw that can cause a kernel panic, but not necessarily, but also has an added consequence, which in the case of a security flaw, intentional modification of the state of a system in a predictable way. The strict kernel panic bug just leads to an unpredictable lockup, the security flaw leads to situation where arbitrary code can be executed in kernel space giving strangers access to things they shouldn't have access to. If you rate one type of flaw to another, the security flaw has the highest possibility of causing damage to the system, this is why the security flaw should be in top priority. You fix the problems that can cause the most damage first.
    • thedude42, on 07/16/2008, -0/+5"The central driving force behind modern OS architecture is dealing with security"

      I would agree with you only if the worst parts of VIsta and Leopard (and Ubuntu 8.04 for that matter) were security concerns. In fact, they are not. The biggest concerns in my experience (where I work, I see the bleeding edge of user for all 3 platforms) is performance on current hardware.

      Now I agree that in the past, security was the last thing on people's minds, kind of an after thought. these days we have some basic security mantras that developers know and do `try` to keep in mind when coding. However, very few developers really do understand security and the implications of `insecure` coding practices. Like, the bad guys aren't always going to try and exploit your code directly, but use your code as a portal for their evil deeds. This idea is beyond most developers, and that's simply because security research plays catch up to the rest of the development world because the development world has to exist before a security research world can come about to study it.

      In the end, the driving force behind operating system development stems from the motives of the team/company developing the operating system. In the case of Microsoft, security is a concern as much as it enables them to sell their product without alienating customers. Same with Mac and Linux.

      I see Linus' key comment being "Security people are often the black-and-white kind of people that I can't
      stand". I think that says it all, his rant is about the short-sited view that the security people he experiences have. Though honestly, this sounds like Linus' personal problem, because the field of security research is a thankless job where no one cares about you until they are knee deep in a fully compromised and exploited network, at which point they start yelling at you about why you couldn't prevent this from happening (after the same whiner had told you before that your security recommendations would be taken under advisement, and nothing happened). It is possible these security types only get respect in the linux kernel development crowd, and eventually find a nice little cave they can pick and prod BSD in while excluding other developers, and that's why they annoy Linus.
    • Neverclear, on 07/16/2008, -2/+1it's funny because the attitude of this comment is exactly what he was railing against.

      I say take it to the Thunderdome nerd because you missed the point.
  • BrainInAJar, on 07/16/2008, -18/+7Seriously?

    "In fact, all the boring normal bugs are _way_ more important, just because
    there's a lot more of them."

    Yeah, who cares if you leak 10,000 credit card numbers to the web when you have other important things to deal with , like sometimes when you run a certain program you hear pops in your mp3's?

    Linux is a security nightmare. Linus doesn't even care anymore, he's just basking in his own celebrity
    • BlackJacket, on 07/16/2008, -1/+9If its such a nightmare then hack my machine. I'll wait...
    • mem2, on 07/16/2008, -0/+8I agree with everything but "Linux is a security nightmare. Linus doesn't even care anymore, he's just basking in his own celebrity ". Way to ruin a good post.
    • genepooldesign, on 07/16/2008, -0/+7You...you...masturbating monkey!
  • iwod, on 07/16/2008, -3/+32While he does have his point. I think his idea is plain wrong too.
    No OS is perfect. So you have OpenBSD which sacrifice a lot or everything for security. It may not be the best OS for anyone or everyone. But they will be the most secure OS.
    A lot of the work in OpenBSD tends to port over to other OS too. So OpenBSD likes security. Fair enough. Different people likes different things.
    So i Think Linus should start to respect other people.

    So
    • yurimxpxman, on 07/16/2008, -2/+7Kernel boot

      Enabling firewall..................check
      Scanning for viruses..............check
      Initialising Apache 2...............KERNEL PANIC
  • NSResponder, on 07/16/2008, -4/+18So, I see that Linus has decided that Theo De Radt can't be the most obnoxious prima donna in the open source game any more.

    -jcr
  • crownedgriffin, on 07/16/2008, -2/+17Now Linus, tell us how you really feel. I don't always agree with Linus, but I always love his politically incorrect ramblings.
    • CountBrass, on 07/16/2008, -2/+2Kind of in the same way a monkey in a zoo fondling itself is amusing, as long as you don't have any young children with you?
      • Spire3660, on 07/16/2008, -1/+1Monkeys fondling themselves is funny regardless of age, the only uncomfortable questions that may come up is because of stupid societal norms. Be honest about what they see, rather than make it out be wrong or bad. In this case particularly, nothing could be more natural.
      • 1timeuser, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1Really, you are upset because of how he insulted bsd instead of why?
    • CountBrass, on 07/16/2008, -1/+2It's easy to be obnoxious: which is lucky for Torvalds because I am not sure he could manage it if it was hard.
  • stymiest, on 07/16/2008, -8/+5For a long time Microsoft took the same approach Linus is preaching, focus on features and functionality not security and look what a mess that made. I'd rather use an operating system designed and updated by engineers that care more about security than run of the mill bug fixes.
    • Culyt, on 07/16/2008, -3/+8Linux is secure. Maybe not as secure as OpenBSD, but its still secure.

      In the end, if you focus too much on security you start to loose performance and functionality.

      No system is going to be %100 percent secure, and you can keep crippling it by trying to get closer and closer to it.

      Disconnecting the server from the internet and dropping it in a hole and covering it in cement is secure but not useful.

      ☢
      • HPMNick, on 07/16/2008, -0/+4Well, I don't agree here. He is talking from the viewpoint of a guy who uses the operating system to do personal tasks and has nothing of real value on his computer.

        In a corporate/business environment, this view is just unrealistic. Security bugs are FAR more important than regular bugs. Having your system go down due to a kernel panic is bad. Having your system lose credit card numbers of 10,000 customers is several times worse.

        I am trained in vulnerability testing and pen testing, and it is extremely easy to leverage several small flaws into becoming a large flaw.

        Security bugs need to be dealt with first. This is why the discovery and release of new security issues is more important than the discovery and release of normal program bugs.

        The only exception probably will be bugs that effect the integrity of vital data... Those are probably more important than some security bugs, however these should be rare in a well developed program. Many businesses would end if they lost their data. Not everyone has good backup policies.
  • MrTulip, on 07/16/2008, -10/+9"To me, security is important. But it's no less important than everything
    *else* that is also important!"

    he might "have the ego the size of a small planet" (torvalds on torvalds) but he's right.

    • CountBrass, on 07/16/2008, -8/+3I don't think stating some obvious platitude: "everything that's important is important" is in any way inciteful.

      Torvalds is an idiot savant with a particular gernius for self-aggrandisement.
      • kaihh, on 07/16/2008, -1/+7hey, come back, you forgot your thesaurus
      • CountBrass, on 07/16/2008, -1/+4kaihh: dugg because you made me laugh :)
      • ToxNub, on 07/16/2008, -1/+0I find it hard to believe somebody knows how to use words like "self-aggrandizement" (with a Z) but can't spell "insightful".

        :P
    • bigsteve, on 07/16/2008, -1/+2I'm a little surprised at Torvalds' short-sightedness. Security is important, and a lot of other things are too. But in some situations, it IS the most important. OpenBSD has it's place, a very important place, and so does Linux. Everyone, just get along.
  • nickallen74, on 07/16/2008, -8/+22Linus is really immature sometimes. Just because someone has a different opinion to him does not give him the right to behave like a 10 year old and call people insulting names. Difference of opinion is healthy and there is no right opinion. I happen to agree with a lot of what Torvalds says but his point would have been better made without insulting others. Bugs do have different priorities and a security problem (by nature) should have a very high priority. Focusing on security and stability over features is not a bad thing. He really needs to grow up!
    • Spire3660, on 07/16/2008, -2/+1Just becasue he has a 'well respected postion' in the community, does not make immune from being human. People are irrational and crude alot of the times, its human nature and last i checked he is a mortal man.
    • illegalcortex, on 07/16/2008, -1/+1At least he didn't express the desire to castrate anyone.

      No matter what their age or position, human nature is a constant.
    • 1timeuser, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2At least it's hilarious when he does express himself.
  • CountBrass, on 07/16/2008, -19/+10Torvalds is the Paris Hilton of open source software. An expert self-publicist who lives off other people's hard work ("Linux" ffs).
    • synik, on 07/16/2008, -2/+6fail.

      it wasn't his idea to call it Linux.
  • c00l2sv, on 07/16/2008, -3/+6Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s...
    and to the OpenBSD team what things are OpenBSD's.

    I think they can still live together as they did it so far.
  • nitr, on 07/16/2008, -2/+120I can imagine Masturbating Monkey being an upcoming Ubuntu Codename
    • amkrisis, on 07/16/2008, -2/+0Herron was close though ;)

      (dl.tv)
    • Taiyoryu, on 07/16/2008, -0/+15I wish they used Hungry Hippo
    • morninglorii, on 07/16/2008, -1/+4Hahahaha so perfect. People at my job are staring at me cuz I'm laughing so hard.
    • Tsukassa, on 07/16/2008, -0/+2Ubuntu M&M, would be great...
    • Cryoniq, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2Priceless comment! :D
  • nycmac247, on 07/16/2008, -8/+3real class act

    /s
  • inkswamp, on 07/16/2008, -4/+47NERD FIGHT! NERD FIGHT!
  • sproket, on 07/16/2008, -11/+5I love how the Linux critics here get dugg down by all the Linux masturbating monkeys.
  • cantormath, on 07/16/2008, -3/+2Wow, if there wasnt $417 between the two groups then, there probably is now.........
    • Cryoniq, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1Wow has nothing to do with this... :P
  • MMaster23, on 07/16/2008, -17/+2I wonder why my enterprise servers don't run Linux .. oh yeah now I remember
    (No, Microsoft didn't bribe me, it's just better. 2008 ftw :))
  • stikkitjim, on 07/16/2008, -6/+1I forget he's part of the Eric Raymond crowd... then again I can talk /me hides "nvidia restricted" package
  • edebolt, on 07/16/2008, -1/+46What's wrong with masturbating monkeys?
    • rlanctot, on 07/16/2008, -5/+4You have to buy them dinner first.
    • lakerdonald, on 07/16/2008, -0/+13it's illegal in 23 states.
    • atdigg, on 07/17/2008, -1/+2Nothing, they only shouldn't program OSes
    • Cryoniq, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1Nothing.. and... a lot.. depends.. I wouldn't want one to start with.. and I seriously wouldn't be near one when it comes..
  • sindex, on 07/16/2008, -10/+4....

    who?
  • cantormath, on 07/16/2008, -7/+2Wow, if there wasnt $417 between the two groups then, there probably is now.........
  • fatas, on 07/16/2008, -6/+2***** Legend
  • wunderdog, on 07/16/2008, -6/+1No, they only wish they were masturbating monkeys.
  • TechBharat, on 07/16/2008, -3/+3Visualizing A Bunch of Monkeys Sitting on a [firewall] fence Masturbating.
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