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Linus Torvalds has switched to GNOME

networkworld.com — I used to be a KDE user. I thought KDE 4.0 was such a disaster I switched to GNOME. I hate the fact that my right button doesn't do what I want it to do. But the whole "break everything" model is painful for users and they can choose to use something else.

Who dugg this? Made popular Jan 25, 2009

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  • shrewduser, on 01/24/2009, -7/+192prepare keyboards for a KDE vs gnome war in 3....2....1...
  • deadbaby, on 01/24/2009, -23/+189For some reason I've always disliked KDE. Just something about the UI design that drives me mad. It's like the worst parts of Windows amplified by 10x. Too many buttons, toolbars, sidebars, panels, etc.
  • mathchemist, on 01/25/2009, -5/+127Wow. All I could do is laugh out loud because Torvalds used to ***** on GNOME for having the wrong philosophy.
  • sumanstyx, on 01/25/2009, -9/+129Who cares?.Just use what you like.
  • spaceman77, on 01/25/2009, -6/+112Although I respect what he has created, Linus is a bit of a drama queen.
  • Tsiolkovsky, on 01/24/2009, -1/+77Here's a commentary on all this from one of the KDE developers: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/01/choices-and-pun ...
  • Wreckage, on 01/25/2009, -2/+71If he hates it that much he should just go and write his own operating system.....
  • bradspangler, on 01/24/2009, -6/+74I think the point is that Linus (like myself) LIKED kde3 and kde4 is not what kde3 users have come to expect from KDE. This isn't a KDE vs Gnome thing. It's a KDE3 vs. KDE4 thing.

    KDE should be KDE and not some memory hogging monstrosity w/ a main menu comparable to guiding a mouse through a maze while looking through a porthole. While a full-featured desktop often won't have the responsiveness of a more streamlined environment like XFCE, neither should it seem comparable to remoting into someone else's desktop over a 9600 baud connection.

    Et cetera.
  • inactive, on 01/25/2009, -4/+62Klutter
  • jimtb, on 01/25/2009, -4/+60"Why the hell do you have to point to bogus programs that don't actually do what I want? I *know* what I want. I *know* gnome doesn't support it. How do I know? I've used it. I looked at the code. I talked to the original author of the code. The author, and the code, all agree: gnome doesn't do what I want."
    --Linus Torvalds - 2007

    http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8745257437.html
  • inactive, on 01/25/2009, -2/+58linus*
  • MattBD, on 01/24/2009, -2/+52I've found myself using Gnome more and more in the last year since KDE4.0 came out. But hopefully 4.2 will be at the stage where I can happily use it.
  • eclypse, on 01/25/2009, -7/+55I used to prefer KDE for it's bells and Window's-like experience, and more recently as I've been a Linux admin for 3 years, I prefer the simplicity of GNOME. But really all that matters is that I have that choice, and it's as simple as switching it in my login menu. :)

    I'm willing to bet there's plenty of Ubuntu users out there asking what the heck KDE is ;)
  • m0llusk, on 01/24/2009, -1/+47The issues with KDE 4.0 were well known and anyone with real interest was warned and continued to use whatever version of KDE 3 worked for them. The KDE 4 releases are extremely important for ongoing improvements and replacement of the old desktop and launcher with Plasma.
  • twiztidsinz, on 01/25/2009, -2/+45Yeah.. Him too.
  • RoutedToNull, on 01/25/2009, -0/+29Your sarcasm detector is broken.
  • PHJames88, on 01/25/2009, -6/+32Exactly my thoughts. It's too busy and a bit too flashy.

    I've always been a Gnome user. I may switch to something more simple in the future, but I don't think I'd ever use KDE full time.
  • simmin, on 01/25/2009, -1/+27You do know that Sunday really is the first day of the week...
  • globexdesigns, on 01/25/2009, -4/+29Seriously? KDE 4.0 was the main reason why I downloaded Linux again and why I think Linux now has a potential to reach the mass market...
  • tech42er, on 01/25/2009, -0/+22What the *****? In America, Sunday IS the first say f the week. In some European countries (e.g. France), I believe Monday is the first day of the week, but in the States and many others, it's Sunday.

    And system -> prefs -> keyboard -> keyboard shortcuts is for, well, keyboard shortcuts! It wouldn't make sense to put app launchers in there as well!
  • Paranormalized, on 01/25/2009, -0/+22"I make controversial statements without thinking a lot."

    -Linus, in the same interview
  • arobar, on 01/25/2009, -0/+20That's far from a "holier than thou" comment, it's pretty accurate. Most people new to Linux don't know what a window manager is, or what an X server is. A lot of those people coming from Windows assume that the GUI *is* the OS. When Ubuntu boots into a graphical environment, they have no idea that there's a command-line OS sitting underneath. They don't know that they could install KDE or Awesome to change how their whole graphical experience works.

    Ubuntu has made phenomenal inroads into making Linux accessible to the average user, but those same roads took us away from the times when we knew for sure that we wouldn't get a puzzled look when asking what window manager someone was running. That's not a bad thing by any means (there will be power users, advanced users, OS masters, etc. for every OS out there), it simply validates eclypse's comment.
  • SuperMonte, on 01/25/2009, -4/+23He also hates C++, who really cares what he likes/dislikes?!
  • MCJackhammer, on 01/25/2009, -0/+18Depends if they're using Kubuntu or not...
  • blakecraw, on 01/25/2009, -1/+18"bit" is a bit of an understatement
  • kvgirard, on 01/25/2009, -2/+19***** that. People are here to berate others for their stupidity for using _____ because ______ is so much better.
  • srg13, on 01/25/2009, -1/+16If it does everything he wants it to do, and is damn fast in the process, then why is it a problem that he uses it? Is it just because you think that anything that doesn't have flashy animation and transparency everything is primitive?
  • WarnerK, on 01/25/2009, -0/+15*whoosh*
  • Protonz, on 01/25/2009, -0/+15That developer seems very reasonable. I think if they are on the wrong path, they would not be opposed to taking advice and correcting course.
  • n8dude, on 01/25/2009, -0/+15That's Hans Reiser. So yeah, the other guy :)
  • Giga, on 01/25/2009, -1/+16"He's a hypocrite. On one hand he bitches about the "disaster" KDE 4.0 and OTOH he puts beta Btrfs into the main kernel with the exact same arguments that were made by the KDE team to make KDE 4.0 a release version."

    The difference is that all the other file systems are still actively maintained and developed, whereas KDE 3.5 has effectively been abandoned with only security fixes taking place. It is KDEs fault somewhat that distros are abandoning 3.5 as it's not a good idea for a distro to stick with a version no longer supported upstream.

    Also, since when did the latest release of Kubuntu offer KDE 3.5? You need to stick with 8.04 to keep 3.5.
  • mazza558, on 01/24/2009, -3/+17I think it's also due to people expecting a continuation of KDE's ideals in KDE4, when it's obvious that the KDE4 team have gone for ease of use and simplicity this time around. What I don't get is how he doesn't talk about KDE 4.2, which is rapidly gaining features and will be the first usable KDE4 release. How can you base your opinions on alpha-quality (KDE 4.2) software?
  • MWeather, on 01/25/2009, -2/+16Try KDE4. I miss my KDE3 complexity.
  • mazurkfsflip8, on 01/25/2009, -7/+21he should switch to Windows 7.

    boooyah.
  • chadsmith729, on 01/25/2009, -0/+14Dugg proudly from my Kubuntu 8.10 machine, yes KDE4. It's not that bad, just takes some used to. Someone like Linus though ... man I can't even imagine what that guy must need to do his daily work. GNOME might have what he needs and to each their own. As a linux user I have learned that quickly. To each their own, and there are always people out there that are willing to give you a helping hand.

    I have thought though that I might give ubuntu (GNOME) a try, and see how that works out for me. The menus might just be easier and everything laid out better. I don't know though, it would be a lot of bookmarks and such to change ... again.

    I wish that this article would get dugg enough to be in the top 10 ... but sadly I just don't think that will be the case.
  • MonkeyFarts, on 01/25/2009, -0/+14ieee:
    Er, what? What's the number one complaint Windows users have about Vista? "It's too bloated!" So what do they do? They go back to Windows XP, which is more "primitive."

    Bloat is not the same thing as technological advancement. In fact, I would argue it's exactly the opposite. It's called bloat because it's a *hindrance* to the user.
  • directrix13, on 01/25/2009, -0/+13Yea ok.
  • tonyr1988, on 01/25/2009, -0/+13Yes, but most people that are anti-GNOME (I believe Linus included) has said that GNOME has been getting better. A while ago, the GNOME devs went crazy and took away virtually every advanced customization feature. They've been doing very good and giving users more and more options, so most of the anti-GNOME folks have let up on them a little over the last couple of years.
  • merky1, on 01/25/2009, -2/+15I agree with the assessment that KDE 4.0 is crap. Its buggy, unstable, and should be considered a beta. Amarok 2.0 is sorta going the same route. Hopefully in six months both of these projects can reclaim their previous glories, but in the meantime, releasing them this early is going to sour the casual users.
  • Wreckage, on 01/25/2009, -1/+14I don't have a problem with Gnome, but it just seems old.

    It's like not wanting to upgrade from Windows 3.1

    I can see valid points, but I like the advanced features of KDE and it's more modern interface.
  • Langford, on 01/25/2009, -0/+13I'd been putting off trying KDE4, but now I may have to try it just to see what he was talking about. I liked KDE3 back when I used it, and I like Gnome right now. I figured KDE4 would tempt me into the KDE world again. I'm not just going to take his word for it though, I still plan to see for myself.
  • zumpiez, on 01/25/2009, -0/+13It could be worse. He could have said "I am really into this Windows 7 beta!"
  • djbon2112, on 01/25/2009, -8/+21I agree. GNOME is everything I need in a Window manager... it's got just enough flash to make it pretty, but it's not a monstrosity. KDE, well...
  • KAMiKAZOW, on 01/25/2009, -5/+18He's a hypocrite. On one hand he bitches about the "disaster" KDE 4.0 and OTOH he puts beta Btrfs into the main kernel with the exact same arguments that were made by the KDE team to make KDE 4.0 a release version.

    BTW it's not KDE's fault that his beloved Fedora distro threw out KDE 3.5 entirely when Mandiva, openSUSE, Kubuntu, etc. all offered both 3.5 and 4.0.
    At least openSUSE (maybe others as well) even offer parallel 3.5 and 4.x installations until this day.
  • lowtolerance, on 01/25/2009, -0/+12I swear to god I've blocked you at least twice now....
  • KAMiKAZOW, on 01/25/2009, -0/+12If you really think that KDE feels like Windows, you certainly haven't used KDE 4.1/4.2. With Plasma breaking the 2 decades old desktop paradigm, it's already pretty far from Windows and once all major KDE apps become "Activity"-aware (hopefully by 4.3 in summer), KDE will be even further away from Windows.
    FYI: Activities are a bit like virtual desktops developed even further. The idea is that you can switch from your "Home" Activity to your "Work" Activity and even the apps behave different, like Kopete giving your colleagues a higher priority and Kontact/KMail opening a different mailbox on the start in your "Work" activity.
  • LastDitchHero, on 01/25/2009, -0/+12Just because he switched doesn't mean he agrees with gnome's philosophy. But at least many distros have bolted on their own stuff to gnome. Yes, sometimes their philosophy of too many buttons gets extreme but at least it can be changed. Maybe not by all end users but at the distro level if enough complaints are heard (not everyone who uses Linux is a programming guru). I haven't used KDE 4.0 except just dicking around on some vms and live cds so I can't really attest to them dropping the ball but enough gripping has been said to where they should be paying some attention. Again some people treat this stuff like it is their religion but when in reality it more like Nascar for intellectuals. If you like the tool and it works fine with it use it. If not find, create, or buy the tool that will get it done.
  • Giga, on 01/25/2009, -0/+12"Amarok 2.0 is sorta going the same route."

    I think "sorta" is a bit of an understatement. I like Amarok 1.x but absolutely hate where 2.x is going.
  • GaryChalmers, on 01/25/2009, -2/+14This is the same person that called Gnome a "disease" and encouraged people to switch to KDE. Its good that Linus contributed so much to the open source community, but personally the guy is an *****.
  • inactive, on 01/25/2009, -8/+20Torvalds is not alone. I switched from KDE to Gnome too. I'm not planning to come back either unless they get their act together and can fix that mess.
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