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20 Comments
- raynevandunem, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12http://news.zdnet.com/5208-9584-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=21741&messageID=413438&start=-14
"Typical confusion ...
This sort of thing just happens all the time. "We DON'T support Linux ... oh no! Actually we DO support Linux ... Well we 'sort of' support Linux." This is a familiar story not only with hardware vendors but also with service providers like ISPs. And the reason is quite simple. Linux is simply not supported in the same way as commercial OSs are supported. In terms of drivers and software, commercial OSs receive direct consumer support from the vendors in the form of custom drivers and applications. With Linux, support often follows another route. The vendor typically provides the necessary information and specifications to the Linux development community and that communtity then builds the necessary support directly into the OS in such a way that the customer does not need support from the vendor. Thus the correct answer is usually, "We do not provide DIRECT support to Linux users BUT support is available through the Linux community." This is all very tricky for the vendors since they are loathe to promise that which they cannot deliver. Thus they will often play it safe and insist on the 'no support' line.
When it comes to Lenovo, they will be providing Windows on their hardware with full support as their standard option. Thats what pays the freight. As for Linux, they will provide that too in situations (like say you want to special order a 1000 or so) where it brings home the bacon (Red Flag, SuSE/Novell, etc.). They are not going to preload them one by one for low volume delivery because it wouldn't pay the overhead. Its simple economics. But it will be very likely that most of their products will 'just work' with Linux even though they are making no commitment to 'support' it or offer it 'preinstalled'. And Lenovo is not alone. There are even a number of ISPs that insist NO SUPPORT FOR LINUX USERS, but one quickly finds that there is plenty of 'backdoor' support if you know where to look and you treat them half way decently (ie your initial comments are not focused on the 'evil Bill Gates' etc)."
- posted by George Mitchell - xoundmind, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Slightly off topic, but....I found a previous ISP tech to be very helpful with linux. I wasn't expecting (nor needed) any help with the standard networking commands. I just needed to get my connection reset. But the topic of OS came up during the conversation and was intrigued to field a Linux call. He apparently used a flavor at home and promised to "up the service priority" if the problem wasn't resolved quickly....The community of geeks never fails.
- samdu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Something just occurred to me. The Digg system is superior to traditional media in a very important way. How often do you see retractions actually get the same amount of attention in the traditional media as the original stories? On Digg it happens quite a bit. Big Ole Digg for Digg!!!!
- theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Slightly off topic:
I am a fanboy of ThinkPads. I am on my 3rd. They just work.
Anyway, has the quality remained the same or has it slipped after the Lenovo takeover? I am going to need a new ThinkPad next year, and was just wondering. - nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3so where do i get one of these linux laptops that lenovo is not "ditching"?
- EasY_TargeT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3What ISP? rogers cable tells me they cant help me once when I called. I felt like taking my internet somewher else.
- Shadowman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3My employer has used ThinkPads for a long time but we have had many problems with them. The support staff jokes about how bad they are. Bad pixels, hard drive failures, dead displays - you name it. Even a couple DOAs. We have actually seen fewer problems since Lenovo took over but management is now thinking about switching to HP. It's too bad because I think the best laptop for Linux is a ThinkPad.
- samdu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4It's not necessarily cheaper to administer. Generally speaking, you setup a Linux box and let it do its thing. Not often the case for Windows Server. Yeah, it does cost more to hire someone to maintain a *nix box because of the number of people skilled enough to do so. But the uptime should be better for the *nix box, too. I don't have any figures in front of me, but I'd imagine the TCO for a Linux box is lower than that of a Windows Server. I'd also imagine that the gap grows larger as you add more servers. Keeping 10 Linux boxes up is easier than keeping 10 Windows Servers up. Besides, just because someone knows "Windows" doesn't mean they know Windows Server. And you see a lot of unknowledgeable people running Windows servers that couldn't run Linux servers because they don't understand the underlying mechanisms that both platforms run on. It's just easier to fake with Windows.
- djhash, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I agree.. I'm slowly migrating into linux, currently double booting with Ubuntu and really am trying to learn how bring up a server and learn security issues. I just hate it when i end up in a forum where people simply ignore me because i'm a noob. As samdu said in the comment above its easier to fake with windows. Thats how I learned how to go from a person who would be worried to switch on a computer, to someone who recommends softwares and hardwares at work and even build a whole computer from scratch without having to think about it for a while. I mean it all became clearer to me when windows went from 3.11 to 95. However its kinda hard to increase the easiness of Linux usage without sacrificing its flexibility. But then again, anyone who tries to speak a new language will stutter a lot at the beginning, then it'll ease out during the continuation of use.
- BassCadet, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4The weird thing is in my job I'm out working on-site with medium-to-large sized corporations and universities and overrall I see more people switching from linux or aix to Windows server than the other way around.
Cheaper to administrate, easier to find people who can do so, and better centralized support from MS..
I think Linux's golden years are behind her. At least until it evolves somehow and starts to get better desktop penetration. And with desktop penetration comes more people who are comfortable with it and therefore more likely to put linux on their servers. - raynevandunem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yeah, but people only started posting comments on this story some 7 hours after it was originally posted. Dunno if its the comments number or the number of Diggs (or an algorithmic equation of both) which sends a story to the front page, of course. But you're right, retractions would usually be relegated to a small corner of 1A if it were a local newspaper in question.
- reclusivemonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"The weird thing is in my job I'm out working on-site with medium-to-large sized corporations and universities and overrall I see more people switching from linux or aix to Windows server than the other way around."
Let me guess... your Windows certified... so you aren't really going to see any movement the other way are you really? Way to put your personal anecdotes as fact. - greyfade, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1when i got plugged into comcast, i had a tech come out and help me set up.
when he found out i ran linux, he was so dumbfounded that he didn't know what to do if his funny little CD didn't work. :D
(i was later refunded the setup fee.) - dukeinlondon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Nowhere to be found on the UK site. I guess it's a case of one of these awkward conversation with a sales person that doesn't really know whether they do it and needs to talk to his manager and so on and so on....
- Justathought, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I was recently considering switching to comcast as my ISP. Over the phone, I asked the salesperson if they supported Linux. His response was that they did not support Linux, but he was quick to point out that it does work with Linux and that, in fact, that is what he uses. ;-)
I get the feeling that official Linux support is not too far off from all this tech providers. - LeoFREYed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1While they are still pretty awesome laptops, I have noticed a decline in quality. I've noticed more broken pixels than used to be common on their LCDs (not only in laptops) and more difficulty when replacing parts under warrenty. But, with that said, I'd get one! (the ThinkPad... not the other Lenovo laptops) But I do worry that in the future they may not be so easy to configure Linux out of the box like the older IBM ones, which based off of my experience just seemed to work great with Linux.
- BassCadet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@samdu,
I agree with everything you said. But the businesses I'm working with seem to look at the "safest" route. It's the same reason why lots of these guys are paying money for IBM Websphere when their needs could easily be met by Apache. They think that paying money = security and responsibility. And they do get the responsibility, but not necessarily the security.
Business is interested in the bottom dollar and don't feel comfortable gambling on open source operating systems. - Vash_aka_TK, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Wait, I'm thinking about buying a ThinkPad in the next couple of months, do these actually get bad pixels a lot or is it just a case of mishandling? Because I've heard these are pretty good machines.
- ethnicman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0The quality is the same. Lenovo has always made the thinkpads. They just split off and became an independent company rather than owned by IBM.
Raoul - aussieaubs, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2no comments...geesh
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