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49 Comments
- RedLion, on 10/12/2007, -3/+35not so good because as the warning in the page says this is an incomplete therefore inaccurate comparison: vista for example has I/O prioritization and supports user-mode drivers, the page says it doesn't. the submitter could have waited for the comparison being completed before submitting this...
IMHO the idea of submitting a page that anyone can edit to digg doesn't sound like a good idea either - brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -6/+25This is a completely linux-biased comparison - so many of the red/green qualifications are completely subjective and/or irrelevant.
You know, it really has gotten to the point where Linux grassroots marketing has served up more FUD then Windows ever did.
As an Linux programmer for 11 years its embarrassing.
My favorite part is 'new hardware support' (without questions Linux's achilles heel, always has been), is both listed as 'ok' for both kernels.
There isnt a piece of PC hardware released that isnt launched without windows support or manufacturer-authored windows drivers, how is it not 'good' or 'excellent'?
BTW I have personally been at a talk where Linux Torvalds has expressed his envy of the Windows scheduler. - ray901, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16@RedLion
Agreed, also it states that neither Vista nor Linux have real-time support. I don't know about Vista, but Linux does now have real-time support. There was even a digg article about it:
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_kernel_gains_new_real_time_support - Alfdog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I use both, but come on... shall we compare grapes and bananas next?
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Ext2 isn't obsolete. There are plenty of instances where using a non-journalled FS makes more sense than using a journalled one.
- arjie, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Well, the latest version of RHEL is 5, not 4. I love the filesystem tables, they're so one-sided.
- jon1012, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8WTF ? I have an asus laptop with a centrino running linux, and it won't explode.
- kettlechips, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I vote for Kernel Sanders
- LeeSoong, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Article says that linux doesn not support flash drive as disk cache, No - WRONG!
LINUX FULLY SUPPORTS USING FLASH DRIVES FOR THE SWAP FILE.
(which is more important than using it just for disk caching...)
I frequently use a flash stick or Compact Flash Card for the Linux Swap File.
Granted, Linux is not the memory hog that Windows Vista is - Linux can run on very little ram, even 48 MB or less in some versions.
But, with a system with 1 GB of RAM and a 1GB flash card swap file - the Linux system effectively has 2 GB of RAM when using the swap file. SO...
SWAP ON! - Ramble, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Some of this is wrong, therefore the whole thing is basically junk.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6This does indeed describe your comment.
- Auzy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Obviously biased or the author is a dumbass. Available OS API, using their API method, Windows does have linux API, using Cygwin.
But its not really. Just like for Linux having Win32, Wine is the option, but its not the best of API's, just like Cygwin.
Also, I wouldn't call linux's old hardware support good compared to Windows. Its good assuming Linux is runnning in a simplified environment. If you run Vista in a PE environment, it could run on just as much.
Furthermore, some of these things aren't comparing them properly. "Graphics Architecture" All no for vista? Sounds funny.
Some of this doesn't sound right - meuserj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The kernel developers have said that 2.7 (development branch for 2.8) has been put on hold. Andrew Morton has said:
"It will be some time before we need a 2.7 kernel. The only reason we would start a 2.7 tree at this time is if we are unsuccessful with the current builds and it keeps breaking, or if someone comes forward and decides they need to rebuild their entire software stack."
So, basically, as long as no deep architectural changes need to be made, the 2.6 kernel will do. - diazamet, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8"OS API - Calls total (#31, #32) Linux 320 Windows >1000" - Why is a large OS API a good thing? Doesn't this just mean it's more complicated?
- Vektuz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Kind of a biased comparison. They appear to have taken all the features in the linux kernel and checked whether windows has them. But they didn't take all the features in the windows kernel and see if linux has them. There'll be some overlap but there's always going to be a lot of uniqueness. There's no good way to actually get a feature list of the vista kernel.
- MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3That's not how it works.
The difference is that Vista doesn't see the flash drive as "just another swap file", it treats it very different, only paging data to it that it knows will be read in a random fashion, which flash drives are better at than hard drives, while at the same time, paging it to the hard drive, so you can pull the flash drive at any time.
Putting regular swap data on a flash drive is a stupid idea, because flash drives are slower except for short small random reads. - aroedl, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I don't know if I like some of the comparisons. For example the one about "OS API - Calls total": Linux 320 Windows >1000. It's not generally better to have more API calls to the kernel, especially when half of them are legacy calls. What about "kernel release used unpatched in OS distribution"? - this really is an apple/pear comparison.
- wbeavis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3From that web page I think it is clear which OS is better ...
/runs and hides - aroedl, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I don't know if I like some of the comparisons. For example the one about "OS API - Calls total": Linux 320 Windows >1000. It's not generally better to have more API calls to the kernel, especially when half of them are legacy calls. What about "kernel release used unpatched in OS distribution"? - this really is an apple/pear comparison.
What bugs me is this: "hardware support (new hardware): Linux: OK (none-good), Windows: OK (none-good)" - I thought they are comparing the kernel? The Windows kernel doesn't really support a lot of hardware, whereas the Linux kernel includes most of the available Linux hardware drivers. - CountSessine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm reasonably certain that Windows uses 1+1 threading too.
- mlambir, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5i think grapes are better... bananas are kinda gay
- MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2That's because they have a completely new driver model, and drivers haven't caught up.
WDDM (Vista) has much better theoretical performance than XDDM (XP). The problem is that the drivers aren't done. - BrandonTurner, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9This page took a very linux/posix approach to the comparison. Where does it show things like Bitlocker, ReadyBoot, or even a stable ABI for the kernel.
Also, some things seem to be wrong or misleading like "development model" where Windows is "closed source". The WDK for Windows is free with many examples and the structure is well documented, it says you need to be a manufacturer to make drivers which is just wrong. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It mentions the stable ABI.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2When there is a need. 2.6 is fine. Most of the 'instabilities' are actually in a few drivers or in vendor added patches. 2.6 is a very modern kernel and there is no need to change things unless they wanted to so some serious changes. Perhaps adding OpenBSD style W^X DEP.
I don't see much that immediately suggests a rewrite of the basic kernel though. - Wacer, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8Very good reference for programmers that are familiar with one OS and wants to program on the other. Also helpful if making software that will cross-compile. Also a good for a good reference sheet.
- MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I'm relatively certain that some of the graphics drivers now exist in userland in Vista, despite what this says. Instead of N, it should at least be Partial. Also, Vista has a shiny new GPU scheduler that this doens't seem to mention.
- dgr814vr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Please lets be realistic
You did say some versions of Linux can run of low amounts of RAM I will not dispute that. Getting practical work done beyond Internet Surfing may be a bit of a push come to shove ( I agree really skilled people can turn them into routers and the such but honestly that seems a bit overkill size wise) But most Modern distributions can also be called Memory Hogs or at the very least demanding of memory.
Minimum Specs and Recommended specs are a world apart even in the World of Linux as much in the world of Windows.
For eg I never Build computers to OS minimum specs I always use recommended specs as a true minimum to get some performance out of the machines i sell - philz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Guys, before you mod someone down, RTFA - Ext3 is _not_ on the list of obsolete FS list. Ext2 is.
- Quadduc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@brundlefly76:
You've been a Linux programmer for 11 years, and yet you do not know that the name of Linux's original creator is Linus Torvalds?
About hardware support: Linux supports way more hardware than Windows does. However, Windows is supported by way more hardware than Linux is. - CountSessine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1There are a few of what I think are inaccuracies, but I agree with them that Linux support for old hardware is better. There are a lot of vendors (think Umax) that orphaned all of their old hardware by refusing to release NT drivers for them when everyone switched from Win 9x to NT/2k/XP.
On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd describe Linux's and Windows' support for new hardware as equal. Yes, Vista support for high-end graphics cards has been poor, but ATI's Linux support is famously bad (and short-sighted). Moreover just ask any of us how fun it is getting a wireless adapter that uses a crummy Connexent or Broadcom chipset working under Linux. - lbradeen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I found it interesting that UFS and UFS 2 were both under the obsolete filesystem catagory despite the fact that they're the main fs of obsd,fbsd and nbsd(?).
- RoboDonut, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Great article, but why is ext2/3 in the "obsolete filesystems" section?
- lastdeadmouse, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2General video performance? Did he forget he was comparing linux to the VISTA kernel?? XP had good 3d performace, but vista's is less than half as powerful on identical hardware.
- CountSessine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0And note that a stable ABI isn't necessarily a good think if it means that you can't improve your driver model without removing cruft. Programming Windows drivers is agony.
- CountSessine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"The difference is that Vista doesn't see the flash drive as "just another swap file", it treats it very different, only paging data to it that it knows will be read in a random fashion, which flash drives are better at than hard drives, while at the same time, paging it to the hard drive, so you can pull the flash drive at any time."
And that's going to be so useful when the flash rom is built into the drive...
"Putting regular swap data on a flash drive is a stupid idea, because flash drives are slower except for short small random reads."
And just how is that any different from how access to a page file is handled? Seriously - access to a page file is naturally going to be non-contiguous and non-sequential because of the unpredictable nature of demand paging. You actually have to introduce heuristics in your pager to get it to lay down pages in the page file sequentially with minimal fragmentation to optimize for a hard drive. Just turn the heuristics off, and maybe randomize the empty slot picking in the page file. - CountSessine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Mind you, if it turns out that paging isn't where you're spending most of your harddrive accesses, then...
- philz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Ext2 is, Ext3 not.
make fs -j - mattym, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0All this tells me is that the linux kernel supports a gazillion things I will
never have a need for.
This comparison is probably better suited for academic research and
that area. I mean, ok the linux kernel can support an enormous
amount of RAM for 64bit systems, much more than Vista,
but who the hell has that kind of RAM? - LeeSoong, on 10/12/2007, -9/+5LINUX Wins Again!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1***** enough already !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -13/+8Linux FTW
- Philluminati, on 10/12/2007, -16/+6Brilliant!
estimated kernel bugs total (#3 * #510, #4 * #610)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Linux: 120010
Windows: 3000010 - snatchertas, on 10/12/2007, -20/+9Although I have nothing against Linux, this article is biased and I don't think it serves any purpose other than being a list in which Linux is presented as superior to Windows.
Should we make a list of PC brands that can run Linux or Windows and compare it with the hardware MacOS runs on?
Should we compile a list of Windows software and compare it with Linux or Mac Software?
All these lists will be true, but it is the focus that makes it biased... - OneManArmy, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3and the website too.
- nixfu, on 10/12/2007, -17/+5
Buried LAME... poorly written, not any interesting info, incomplete research, false data - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -15/+2Well, kernel aside, look at the whole as well: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/37aecd52d8255dbc
- phjr, on 10/12/2007, -20/+6Windows kernel is completely busted by Linux! Yeah!
- NickyBatts, on 10/12/2007, -21/+3If you have an Asus laptop with an Intel Centrino, Linux will explode.
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