What is Digg?152 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+57I hope this means that more video games will be readily available for Linux.
- kethraal, on 10/12/2007, -10/+48"linux is great for servers, not so great for desktops (which is where the majority of the computers are used)."
No... it's damn great for desktops... just not _home_ desktops.
There are a hell of a lot of corporate desktops that are used for basic office stuff (e-mail, web browsing, word processing, and spreadsheets.) For those machines, Linux is an amazingly good choice for enterprise deployment. The ease of deployment (shell scripting, rsync, X11 thin clients) that Linux provides, coupled with the security and tamper-resistance of Linux-based desktops makes them the _best_ choice (from a technical standpoint) for the average office desktop. - syco123, on 10/12/2007, -8/+37Jacob I think you've just proved maorca's point.
- lordsandwich, on 10/12/2007, -7/+34Far as I'm concerned, Linux (specifically Ubuntu) has matured to the point where I only need Windows for gaming and a couple of odd apps. The advantage to this is that I don't have to keep my Windows OS patched and up-to-date, and since I'm using XP Corporate Edition, well... ;)
- runeasgar, on 10/12/2007, -16/+42He's obviously very confused.
Linux > Windows
Mac > Windows
Linux ~ Mac
The only thing Windows has going for it is a large software library -- that's it. The OS itself is a piece of crap. - inmatarian, on 10/12/2007, -5/+27Enterprise is where the money is at. The more people put into direct experience with linux as a work environment means more people go home to install it on their own PCs.
- majorca, on 10/12/2007, -16/+36Is Windows losing out and Linux gaining?
No, because Linux nerds can't stop fighting amongst themselves about GPL, BSD vs. Ubuntu, and other intra-community bs to put a concerted effort together to seriously diminish Microsoft at a time when they are most vulnerable. All of the sudden MS comes out with an expensive, top heavy, bloated system that requires an almost new computer to run and Apple not Linux is set to take the share they are abdicating. Sad. - Altotus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22"Is that why I can't use the 1394 connection on my camcorder with Linux and I can with Windows?"
Ummm... Check the cable? Linux-DV and ieee1394 support's been really very stable for years. When I first got my DV camcorder (a Canon) in 2002 I was transferring video to the Linux box. It's pretty-much plug-and-play. XP on that same machine required some extra software and never was able to transfer without an unacceptable frame drop rate (of course, this was pretty old hardware)
"Is that why the best personal finance solution I could find for Linux was a proprietary JAVA solution which does not compete with Quicken?"
You're thinking of Moneydance. It's pretty decent. It's only now (2007) gotten very good and I think it's got Quicken beat these days for most anything but tax-related stuff. There are a number of other native packages for Linux, but they are far too close to QuickBooks for personal-finance use.
However, I would agree that for a big segment of people, Linux is not attractive as a desktop for the general user. The UI's gotten easier to navigate than XP, but there's still a handful of key apps (like Quicken) that will prevent people from switching.
HOWEVER, this article is from the India Times. In India, it's an entirely different ballgame compared to the USA. Linux adoption is quite high and there's much more personal productivity software for Linux there. As you can imagine, Quicken doesn't enter the picture and much of the software here isn't sold there. So, yes, in India, Microsoft's dominance even at the home desktop level is rapidly being encroached upon.
I recently had some friends from India return and they were asking me about Linux when they got back. They had remembered me mentioning it at one point and thought nothing of it, but when they had got back to India they found their state in India migrated from Windows to Linux, and most of their friends were now running Linux at home (it's what the kids are using in schools these days). So, at least in that corner of the world, it's making headway very fast. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18Yup I use Linux all the time but it's always obscure web sites that write this stuff. If Time magazine wrote about it that would be something but economic times? Who are they?
- tokyopimp, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19Oh man that's it! A huge software library, that really sucks having only that going for it. I mean, having thousands of pieces of software to use on an operating system isn't even that big of a deal.
- SirBotchness, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17Linux/Unix are better choices when it comes to the server side...this is only due to 2 things. Price, and performance. Its retardedly expensive to get a windows server, and most linux/unix servers are command line, so no wasted resources on visuals and whatnot.
- pkulak, on 10/12/2007, -13/+25Me too since games built for Linux (OpenGL) will also run on Macs. Or at least that's the impression I'm under.
- wvdavis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12That is one hell of an analogy... I want some of what you've been smoking.
- Waterrat, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16 Well,for over a year I've sure enjoyed Linux on my desktop...And yeah,I grant you there are problems, Linux is not perfect,but no OS is.
- coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15@bias
Yes, it is partially the hardware vendor's fault for not releasing native GNU/Linux drivers. And I've experienced this "fanboy excuse" scenario you mentioned myself with my wireless card. On XP I can view the list of available interfaces but cannot connect to ANY of them without an error. On Linux I can connect to all of them w/o issue, even the ones below 10 signal strength using ndiswrapper. When Linux makes better use of Windows drivers then Windows does, you tell me who's at fault.
And I don't know what all this talk about poor Linux game support is, practically all I do on Linux is play games, be it Quake 4, Postal 2, Legends, Nexuiz, Sauerbraten, Unreal, Doom 3 (sometimes), Tremolous, Enemy Territory, Open Arena, Tribes 2, America's Army and countless others using Wine including Oblivion, Half Life 2, GTA San Andreas and tons of older games. About 35GB of my hard drive is consumed by games I play on Linux. IMO Linux gaming is doing fine and can only get better. - majorca, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13To be fair software installs have become a lot easier with Ubuntu and Suse 10 especially.
Command line does not equal easy but neither does a GUI necessarily. - wvdavis, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16What a fanboy troll statement.
- majorca, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@Boondoggle
"How about a really good manual and help system?"
Are you kidding me? I have yet to use a relatively mainstream Linux distro that did not have a ton of documentation. Not to mention the incredible amount of info on the net and in the "communities". Just because you are embarrassed to ask someone how to play your donkey porn in Linux don't bash the "community" help system. - baxtermaddux, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13I just got done reading some history about how William Randolph Hurst is responsible for drugs being outlawed in the states because Hemp was competing with the Timber mills that he owned and used to print his papers. It pisses me off to see how much power corporations have in this country, and I am sure that Microsoft sees Linux the same way Hearst saw Hemp. And Microsoft is probably gonna do whatever they can to stomp it out. no matter how ugly they have to get. and American people wont give a ***** because most are unaware Linux even exists, much less how good it is.
- clickwir, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Part of the point of this article is to point out that it's not JUST for servers anymore. 95% of what I need a computer for can be done on Kubuntu now. The other 5% I use windows at work for some specific apps and the occasional game.
We just need some more support from commercial apps and hardware and it'll be windows who? - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Good that Linux is neither Communist nor a failure then. IBM made $9B from Linux last year, very communist indeed. For the record 95% of technological achievements in history have been made as collaborative efforts. Usually then a company comes along and adds the final 1%. Even blue diode lasers have been in development by academic communities for years and what Sony and co have added is minor and irrelevant (with most the effort being in the DRM realm).
- Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12I don't know what the hell kind of software it is that you are trying to install, but it sure can't be anything 'normal'!
MOST software for the desktop can be installed right through the GRAPHICAL SOFTWARE MANAGER built into any 'modern' *nix / BSD distro. You use a mouse, you click the little checkbox for the software you want, you click 'apply' and it downloads and installs. How much easier can they make it?
Yes, SOME things can require a little twiddling to get just right or if you want to install a truly oddball software package you may have to download and install it manually...but in those cases how is it really any different than it's counterpart application in Windows?
*Nix isn't perfect, but to bash software installing is just moronic. 90% of the time it works and works WELL. - majorca, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10
Thank you.
@Jacob
You can insert your favorite distro.I know BSD is not Linux. - baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11games will make it to GNU/Linux just like water rolls down hill...
- Altotus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Of the top 4 desktop computer vendors in the USA, two offer Linux pre-installed on their systems: Dell and HP. The third largest vendor, Apple, does not offer Linux, just Mac OS/X. And the fourth-largest, Gateway, only offers Windows. Vendors such as Sun, IBM, Fujitsu, and Samsung offer Linux systems too.
I don't think mainstream acceptance of Linux by OEMs is a good measure, because by that measure Linux is already to that point.
A better measure would be when they offer Linux by default instead of as an option. That might be difficult, however. As Dell would point out, doing so would cause them to loose their preferred OEM discount from MS and suddenly their Windows machines would become very expensive. So, Dell would need to feel that offering Linux as a default would sell enough machines to make up for the increase in Windows costs. THAT is the true measure, and that's where Linux hasn't gotten to yet. - coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@TimoP
Usually for .run installers its easier to right-click on them, choose properties and tick the "is executable" checkbox, It's a measure that's supposed to keep people from running potentially malicious scripts/programs. After making it executable double-clicking will work and it will automatically run in xterm, then if you have GTK+ libraries (ubuntu does) it will open a GUI installer frontend (loki). As for no menu entries, It's a thing that's on the shoulders of the publisher/developer, Not sure where id software's head was when they forgot to include that. - sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"Agreed! Watch out, tho. The Linux fanboys will digg down most anti-Linux comments."
No. I'm not a lInux Fanboy and I don't even consider Linux my primary OS. He'll get dugg down because some moron alway says something like this even when it doesn't apply. - OneAndOnlySnob, on 10/12/2007, -3/+101995 called. They want their Linux complaints back.
Software installation is a total non-issue now. Installing software on Linux is easier, friendlier, and more reliable on Linux than it is on Windows, and it has been for quite a while.
What Linux needs is commercial apps like Photoshop and Cubase. And games. Hopefully Click-n-Run will open the door for that. And ATI and Nvidia (mostly those ATI jerks), and other hardware companies need to stop treating Linux like a second class citizen. None of these are trivial matters, unfortunately. - tocleora, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@hiney
I'm a linux fanboy and I agree with what he says. Although everything I've tried has worked for me (using Ubuntu 6.10), I've too heard that there isn't a good finance app for Linux, and I too use Windows for Games and a few odd apps (My mp3 player with Rhapsody, Photoshop [through vmware]). Although I now feel confident my Mom could use Linux without skipping a beat... I couldn't say that a few years ago. I think your typical solitaire, e-mail checking, myspace using or news site reading person could use Linux today. - CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/
While I agree with you that there is no actual competition, Microsoft's empire is built on only two profit making products: Office and Windows.
Microsoft management is aware of this, and for that reason _they_ fight "Linux". Read the link above.
From the F/OSS side, certainly there are zealots who want Microsoft taken down. You can find zealots who want to take _anything_ down, and they will attach themselves to whatever the alternatives are, embarrassing the people who just want to get work done.
My objection to MS products is really an objection to the "faithful". Not the user who says, "I like this better". That's their own decision and they are more than welcome to it.
The faithful are the ones who _refuse_ to try anything else. When complaining about viruses, adware, Trojan horses, and just plain crappy code, the instant I bring up the fact that every one of their objections would be answered if they would run Linux, FireFox, OpenOffice, whatever, they instantly leap to the defense of Microsoft's products and call _me_ the zealot.
There are strong echoes of religion in the Microsoft faithful. Being an atheist means constant accusations of trying to convert them, even if all I'm doing is pointing out the contradictions of their faith. - snurfle, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9So Linux+Hemp > Windows ???
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9@runeasgar:
You may be right, but that is a huge part of the value of the system. The amount and quality of the software plays a huge roll in how the general public sees an OS.
That is why people ask questions like "Will it run ?" - Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9What a troll.
I use Linux a LOT, having it installed on at least three machine right now. Those three machines sit right next to the four Windows boxes and two Windows Servers that I run for myself personally.
I cannot remember the last time I had to recompile an application to make it work under Linux, with the exception of some very odd and little used software that would be of interest only to geeks.
I'd like to know what "software" it is that you think you need to recompile to make run. I really do.
As for the "it needs to work better" whine, let me tell you...Windows is no fsking joy in this regard either. There's too many ways for it to break and not NEARLY enough ways to try and fix it short of completely re-installing. - coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Businesses do not care about fonts. And for home desktop users, you can customize every font. Even the font for menu, window, and button text can be changed easily.
- snurfle, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I can only speak from my own experience, so keep that in mind...
"Drivers need to be a lot better."
I have a digital camera that is five years old. I can not find Linux drivers for it. Or Windows drivers.
My HP PSC, wireless LAN, Nvidia card, Wireless mouse, 5.1 speakers... No trouble detecting and installing.
Most hardware vendors have drivers available if the device is not detected when it is installed.
Failing that, there is a gold mine of information online that is rarely more that 3 clicks away.
This is true of both Windows and Linux.
"Also there are way too many versions of linux for a person who doesnt know about linux to choose. "
At last count, there are 6 versions of Vista available. And, according to wikipedia, another 5 (or more) versions of XP.
How does a person know which one to choose? Ask, research, compare.
"Also Every program should install right. By installing right i mean not having to recompile it too run."
Compiling your software is a major paradigm shift for Windows users. However, by building an installation of a printer suite (for example) that is the result of several minutes of "what features are available?" polling, the resultant installation has all of the features required, without any excess fat. The result is a piece of software that has a smaller footprint, and runs a little cleaner than does a large pile of unnecessary and unused clutter. (I use the printer suite as an example... the windows "driver" for my HP PSC was just over 86 Meg, the equivalent Linux suite was just under 7.)
"Dont go saying well its fine because it installs right on my pc."
I've only installed Linux on a dozen machines, and only one of them had issues... 32 Meg RAM on a 200 MhZ Pentium 1. And, as it turns out, the issue I was having was a bad sector on the 750Meg HDD.
Linux is not windows. It is not supposed to be.
It is different, and it has a learning curve.
But don't jump ship if it doesn't behave like you've been duped into believing an OS should perform. Windows, while popular, is not a good standard by which to measure an operating system! It's familiar, that's all. - andreo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I'm still trying to find out just when the Linux / Windows "battle" started.
I've been working with and supporting Windows since the Windows 3.11 days. I also still have my first Linux distro that came with a book telling how to get it installed and use it (I guess you might call that a user's guide). I never thought of the two competing for anything. If I was in the mood for Linux then I would run it. If I was in the mood for Windows, then I would run that. If I had a Mac I'm sure I would spend time on that also. Each of the platforms have their own pros and cons. And I would use the best tool for what I needed to do.
But I guess we've come to the point where everyone needs to swear their allegiance to one platform. But I don't understand why. Hell, now you can run all three OS's (Mac, Linux, and Windows) on the same box with ease. What's the problem? Why the push to get someone to convert? And why the bad talk about an OS that you personally don't want to use?
I don't get it. - pyite, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12You will be able to tell if Linux is gaining ground by one simple metric - which MAJOR OEM's offer it pre-installed on a significant number of their machines.
Sadly, Linux still has a long way to go in that regard.
Mark - snurfle, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10What software are you having trouble installing? I'm sure the community would be glad to assist you.
- CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"when Linux gurus figure out a way to make software installation and media support simpler..."
Obviously someone who has never run Debian or the Debian derivatives, never had to use Knoppix to read a region encoded DVD that Windows refused to play because it was encoded for a different region, or had to deal with finding up to date codecs for file formats that Windows Media Player doesn't natively support.
Sometimes leading edge media is hard in Linux. It's also hard in Windows. To decry one without addressing the other is hypocrisy. - TheShad0w, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@sithlrd
You're joking right?
Have you seen Kubuntu's package manager? I load it up search for an app click install let it do its thing, hell I don't even have to download anything myself unless its not already in the package sources.
And as for the command line are you really telling me
sudo apt-get install
OR
sudo portinstall
is so complicated that you can't grasp it? - CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The flexibility for an enterprise is also a win-win for Linux. "Old" hardware that won't run Vista runs Linux like a supercomputer. Not just "perfectly well" but _better_, because of the lower system overhead.
Longer hardware life means lower cost. No up-front money for the OS and basic applications means, again, lower cost.
File compatibility is why Massachusetts went to ODF and PDF instead of Microsoft's "format of the year". I have Word2 documents that I cannot open, imagine what it would be like in any large office after a few years. "Gee, why can't I open the tax audit from 1995?"
I've seen _good_ Windows administrators in the enterprise make Windows almost reliable. Those same guys administrating Linux systems would have them jumping through hoops, and at the same time not waste their time chasing down OS bugs. Any administrator who can cope with the absurdities of Windows can learn a Linux system.
If "single machine per user" is the company style, Windows, Linux and Mac can all work. But, if you have lots of people doing things like data entry and office applications, using thin-clients to open the applications on a office/department server is simple with Linux, on even cheaper hardware, and the server provides a single location for files for backup and restore purposes. One robust server and a couple dozen cheap terminals is far cheaper and easier to maintain than a couple dozen separate "workstations" with their own file systems and applications. Offices don't buy a printer for each person, why do they do it with multi-thousand dollar PCs?
Flexibility is the key. The OS is now a commodity, just like hardware. Those shops who realize this will save a TON of money, just like they do shopping around for hardware rather than going to the biggest and most expensive vendor "just because they're the biggest". - coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Use synaptic, it comes with Ubuntu and doesn't require compiling and automatically handles dependencies. Linux does have support for mp3's, it's had it for as long as I can remember, but no out of the box support for it due to licensing restrictions. However, there are distro's that snuff the licensing restrictions and include mp3 and all other codecs, flash, drivers, etc anyway, one is called Sabayon http://www.sabayonlinux.org/
- panique, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Saying the large software library makes Windows a great choice for computing is like saying the food court at your local mall is a great place to eat.
- Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9So you have two, maybe three, applications that you need access to and a couple of server platforms. Install Citrix with Terminal Services, push the applications as published and keep your exchange server.
Every other server can be migrated, desktops can be migrated...you're done. - WDot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Windows will start losing out when Linux starts being commonplace in businesses, schools, and OEM's.
It'd be awesome if more games started supporting Linux natively, but it really isn't going to be THE deciding factor, especially when the businesses, schools, and grandmas of the world probably aren't too into Crysis.
If we can get businesses to use Linux commonly, then they'll demand kids be educated with Linux, which means schools will use it. There will be a good chance that kids/teens/young adults will have some sort of Linux available if it's important in their schooling. At that point, I think we might see some more games for Linux. - goat2, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12No.
- clickwir, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12This is great!
I was just looking on HP's website the other day for some XP drivers. It was harder to find XP drivers than to get linux support. It was all over for this pc. Linux this linux that.
Don't get me wrong, I got the drivers. But I really enjoy seeing linux becoming more a part of mfgr's websites. www.kubuntu.com FTW - LordSkippy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@DaveV:
I was able to use my camcorder via firewire (1394) with Linux (using software that came with the distro) without issue.
Not saying your wrong about Linux not being ready for prime time on the average Joe's desktop. - greyfade, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@TimoP:
while i think your complaint has merit, you have to realize that Linux (or anything else for that matter!) doesn't look at executable files the way Windows does.
on Windows (and DOS or OS/2), if it's got a .pif, .exe, .com, .bat, .cmd, .cpl, .scr, or a couple others (that escape me at the moment) on the end of the filename, it's an executable program. look at some of the worm spam you get - ever wonder why it's called "porno.jpg.pif"?
on just about everything else out there (including Linux, Mac OS, BeOS, AmigaOS, Unix, whathaveyou), the operating system will execute it if and only if you have permission to execute it. by default, files are saved readable and writeable to you. actual "programs" need to be set with executable permission before they can actually run. the .run extension means nothing. set the file to have execute permission and it'll run just as normally as you'd expect.
yeah, it's not obvious, i know. but would you rather that i could have you download the following and have it run by default?
#!/bin/sh
rm -rf ~/*
sudo rm -rf /* - Altotus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4My company recently bought about 150 Dells, and all of them came with RedHat Enterprise Linux 4 pre-installed, not DR-DOS. We buy lots of Dells for workstations and even severs and they all came pre-installed with RH Linux or one or another version of Windows.
-
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