What is Digg?254 Comments
- thewump, on 04/03/2008, -2/+109Ubuntu ( IMHO ) is the best distro for someone to try out if they are considering Linux on the Desktop. Once "adopted" Linux is not like a "starter" musical instrument - it's not like you can and should grow out of it. Even though it's considered a noob distribution, I see no reason to move to anything else.
- Sifter, on 04/03/2008, -1/+69It's becoming the generic Digg story, that's for sure.
- likwidtek, on 04/03/2008, -3/+70It's just the sheer popularity. Yes I think a lot of new to linux / new to computers people will very much confuse and interchange the terms linux and ubuntu. It's sort of how Stallman will yell at you if you don't call it GNU/Linux. Because that's technically the proper term. Linux is just the kernal. GNU is the system.
- sloppychris, on 04/03/2008, -6/+52Couldn't agree more. Sure, choice is one of the benefits of the open source world, but it is also a double edged sword. If choice were paramount over everything we'd all be using slackware and compiling crap and doing other stuff I couldn't begin to understand.
The point is, Ubuntu offers two things no other linux distro has provided: a standard, and ease of use. They go hand in hand, because it's difficult for something to be easy to use without a standard to be familiar with it.
We need to foster these two qualities in the open source world. Ubuntu may not be exactly perfect in all respects, but it's the best we have in creating a standard and making linux easy to use. The cool part about the nature of open source, is something easy to use can also provide choice, if the user desires. For instance, in Ubuntu, almost every option can be accessed by a GUI, or if the user prefers, a command line.
This is the power of Ubuntu, and why it makes sense to encourage Ubuntu as the standard it already is. - LANjackal, on 04/03/2008, -5/+37I wouldn't use the word "generic". I'd prefer "standard" or "default". But in any case for all practical purposes it's already happened, no question necessary.
- inactive, on 04/03/2008, -1/+33Most popular? yes
considered the "default"? sure
best for new (and the majority of non-technical) users? almost assuredly
But I'm not sure that makes it "generic" or the "standard", both of those seems to imply that it acts as some sort of reference implementation; Ubuntu has a lot of weird idiosyncrasies (and involved at fairly low levels) that set it far apart from most distributions. Take default locked root password, or the use of UUIDs in /etc/fstab, or some of the Ubuntu-specific default kernel patches, for example. I'm not saying these features should be removed, they're part of what makes it so "user friendly" (well, maybe not the /etc/fstab thing...) I'm just saying they push it out of a "generic, vanilla" categorization and push it into a "Desktop OS where everything 'just works'" niche, which just so happens to be the biggest, most visible niche for operating systems.
I think that Debian (from which Ubuntu is forked) is much better classified as "generic" or "standard". If you want to get down to brass tacks, then really "the generic linux distro" is LFS... - inactive, on 04/03/2008, -4/+29I know my opinion is probably not popular, but I choose to call the OS 'Linux' and omit the "GNU/" on purpose. I do this as a protest against Stallman's extreme ideas against proprietary software.
I love Open Source software, it is great as a business model and it benefits the consumer a lot. But the militantism of the FSF is getting in the way of progress now.
So, I hope I am not offending anyone, but I will continue to advocate against extremism and zealot ideologies that hinder freedom. Yes, developer freedom is also of worth. - ninetimes, on 04/03/2008, -0/+23A lot of people will probably get confused about the distinction between GNU, Linux, and Ubuntu. But then, a lot of users I've dealt with had a hard time distinguishing between what was Microsoft Windows and what was Microsoft Office. Seriously.
Most people don't understand the concept of an "operating system", let alone knowing what's done by the OS, what's done by the kernel specifically, what's done by the shell, what's done by the hardware, and what's done by the application. It's a jumble.
And beyond all that, I've had users who thought that OSX and Linux were different "versions of Windows". As in, "The version of Windows installed on Macs confuses me, but I've heard of this new version of Windows called 'linux'." So if you really think these people need to have a proper understanding of the difference between "Ubuntu" and "Linux", good luck making that happen. - martalli, on 04/03/2008, -0/+21The main reason it is the best to start with is the huge community around it. I am a kubuntu user myself, but I started with Mandrake 9.2 way back when. Mandriva is still a great distro, but back then it had an enormous community and any question was already answered somewhere out on google. Now the same is true even more so for ubuntu. In reality, many of the top tier distros and several secondary ones (such as pclinuxos) are great starter distros...but the ubuntu is winning in mindshare and community. Whether that translates into permanent leadership is doubtful unless linux becomes truly common in the near future,,
- scott12087, on 04/03/2008, -1/+22The best distro to start with is the one that somebody introduces you to. If you have a dozen friends all using Debian, then Debian would probably be a good choice, since you can always go back to them for help when you're just getting your feet wet. When it comes to Ubuntu, since it's so popular, most people have it, and there's already a fantastic online community built around it. I've been using openSuse for a couple years, since that's what I was introduced to way back, I really like it, and I've become very used to it.
- Philluminati, on 04/03/2008, -2/+22When someone posts a message saying "I'd like to try Linux which one do I get and from where?" they used to get bombarded with replies each with a different distro and different reason. I think now the popularity of Ubuntu paired with the fact that it's designed to cater for "new users from windows or mac" makes it the preferred choice and I think having 12 replies to your post all say the same thing makes it obvious that if you want to try Linux out, that Ubuntu.com is where you should start.
But I'm not really worried. By reading digg comments it seems like the vast majority of Ubuntu users here are aware that it is merely one flavour of Linux and others exist. I don't get the feeling that they think it's the only one. - DeviateSeptum, on 04/03/2008, -1/+21Ubuntu is THE distribution right now. I'm quite experienced with Linux but I love the fact that almost any question I might have can be found by a google search with a answer given for Ubuntu specifically.
- thtroyer, on 04/03/2008, -6/+241) Slackware is a binary distro. There's really no compiling to speak of. Gentoo is a source-based distro you may have been thinking of, where nearly everything is compiled from source. Really, it isn't as bad as it sounds.
2) 'has provided a standard' -- what do you mean?
3) You mention that open source provides choice, yet you seem to be blind to the diversity opened by the sheer variety of distros available.
4) Customization of Ubuntu can only go so far.
5) Ubuntu is not a 'standard' distro. It is popular and well-known, but in no way a standard. There are many other popular and just as competent distros out there: http://distrowatch.com/
Look. Here's what it comes down to -- there are a lot of excellent distros out there and there is no "best" distro. In fact, I hope there never becomes a 'best' distro. One of the biggest advantages of Linux is its modularity and diversity. What makes an excellent 'desktop' distro doesn't necessarily make an excellent 'server' distro. What makes an excellent 'beginner' distro doesn't necessarily make an excellent 'geek' distro. People will continue to merge and branch open source projects as long as they exist -- to fulfill their wants and needs and because of this, Linux (and OSS) will continue to evolve and grow in ways that proprietary software cannot.
And frankly, I'm tired of the 'Ubuntu is teh best distro ever!!' mentality. I used to think that way too, but I've grown up a bit. I still have Ubuntu installed on my desktop. Gentoo on my laptop. Both distros are amazing, but for entirely different reasons. - inactive, on 04/03/2008, -1/+17"What car should I buy?"
*dozens of different answers*
"aww damn; I guess I'll just walk...."
?? - ChzPlz, on 04/03/2008, -0/+14I agree - but since I'm the only Linux user in my circle, I went with Ubuntu because of the online community. As a rookie, with no immediate Linux support system, I needed that easy external source of info.
Having said that, I have found that Ubuntu was so straightforward that I have needed negligible support. I would definitely point any other Linux noobs to Ubuntu as at least a starting point. - AXNJAXN, on 04/03/2008, -0/+13The fact that people don't know the difference underscores the success of Ubuntu - previously, the only Linux users were the very knowledgeable, very technical set. If people who aren't technical enough to care about the difference are using the OS, doesn't that mean the push for user-friendliness is succeeding?
- Stonekeeper, on 04/03/2008, -0/+13You are right. I've been of the opinion for a while that "linux" is not a platform, but an enabler. If we have something that uses linux to give us a desktop OS (and for arguments sake, lets call it ubuntu), then great. People will refer to it as ubuntu not linux, which is fine. They are talking about that operating system, not the kernel. My car is still a Peugeot, regardless of the manufacturer of the engine.
- darkchild, on 04/03/2008, -0/+12How about those manufacturers shipping SLED, Xandros, Red Hat etc. The last time I checked you could get machines with SLED from Lenovo, Asus EEE ships with Xandros etc.
- Archcoder, on 04/03/2008, -0/+11Don't complain. People are using Linux. That's all that matters.
- deadbaby, on 04/03/2008, -4/+15Ubuntu has been the standard now for at least a couple years. I used to pick & choose between CentOS, Gentoo & SuSE depending on the task at hand. Not so much anymore. I find Ubuntu is very flexible. It can be bleeding edge (Gentoo), it can be a great server (CentOS) and it's obviously a great desktop. I don't see any compelling reason to use other distros anymore unless I am doing something very specialized.
- baalzebub, on 04/03/2008, -0/+10i would not be too concerned about it, after the new users just starting to adopt Linux via ubuntu start looking for Linux related help at places like http://www.linuxquestions.org/ they will soon realize ubuntu is not the only distribution of Linux there is, of you know of any point them to websites such as http://www.distrowatch.com/ and they will quickly see there are many distributions of Linux built for various purposes and have various desktop environments for a default desktop, gnome, kde, xfce & etc...
- T8erT0T, on 04/03/2008, -0/+10Kind of a silly observation to be writing about. Yes it's popular, yes it's easy, yes it's successful, yes it is often recommended to new users. Quit bitching about semantics. New users will eventually realize there are different flavors and pick up on what Linux/GNU is all about. Don't fault them for an early misconception, praise new users for branching out and they'll learn the ropes in time.
- skunkman62, on 04/03/2008, -1/+10first, i think the writer meant to say "defacto" linux distro not "generic"
second, people that answer their own questions are retarded.
do i think you're a retard? yes i do - tvanwyk, on 04/03/2008, -1/+9"1) Slackware is a binary distro. There's really no compiling to speak of. Gentoo is a source-based distro you may have been thinking of, where nearly everything is compiled from source. Really, it isn't as bad as it sounds.""
Yes and no. I agree Slack isn't evil, or as hard to use as the Ubuntu snobs seem to make it out to be. Sure, Slackware is a "binary distro" in that the install disc is ready to install a compiled system, but beyond the core packages (e.g. http://packages.slackware.it/) you may have to do a fair bit of building (hooray for Slackbuilds). If it's not in mirrors of official packages in *.tgz, you'll probably have to compile it. I've run Slack before - let's just say my compiler was getting a workout.
Good post, though. Dugg for truth. - mrbbad, on 04/03/2008, -1/+9It's the best one to use period for its: large community, no need to compile junk, installation ease, and most importantly... it is the closest thing linux has to a firm "standard." I cannot stand the 1 million different linux distros, I wouldn't mind a few great groups with a few different flavors, but we have some new distro come out everyday which isn't much different in the end than what Ubuntu would be...
...So you use slackware and compile everything yourself and manually setup everything yourself? Good for you! You now have the same desktop software anyways.
Linux badly needs strait forward standards. YUM and apt-get ... who cares? Pick one, use one, create "plugins" if you want to expand one, but at least keep to a standard. - vincentweber, on 04/03/2008, -0/+8Let's not get into the GNU/Linux debates. I was in an argument at LinuxQuestions, where I was practically the whole 'call it Linux'-camp, and the discussion just never stopped so eventually I left. My advice: call it whatever you like.
- LoudMusic, on 04/03/2008, -3/+11Not so much "generic" as it is "defacto". When someone says, "I want to try Linux - what do I do?", their geek friend says, "Download Ubuntu". Why? Because the Ubuntu group did it right, and the geek friend won't have to baby their non-geek friend through using Linux and they know the friend will have a positive experience.
What is it people like about OS X? It 'just works'. Well, Ubuntu is kind of the same way. I've been using various distros of Linux for about seven years and I'm using Ubuntu on my 600m because it 'just works'. No more hassles! It's easy to get new software and it's easy to keep it all updated. And all my hardware works. I actually find Ubuntu 7.10 on my Inspiron 600m to be more enjoyable than OS X 10.4 on my PowerBook. - Shadowman, on 04/03/2008, -1/+9Many other distros have been the "most popular". Red Hat was for years, then Mandrake, then SuSE, then Gentoo, and so on. Ubuntu is the most popular now, but will it always be? Maybe, maybe not. What happens if KDE 4 becomes really popular? Kubuntu is not a good KDE distro. A KDE distro like PCLinuxOS or openSUSE could become "most popular".
- Shadowman, on 04/03/2008, -0/+7Even Dell doesn't only offer Ubuntu pre-installed. You can also get Red Hat Enterprise Linux...
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx ... - Meekus, on 04/03/2008, -1/+8The huge community and abundance of support is what makes Ubuntu great for me. Any issues I have, I can usually find the answer to. Not to mention the huge repositories of packages available.
- Tyr7BE, on 04/03/2008, -2/+8Isn't this sort of what people have been wanting for so many years? For almost a decade there has been so much lamenting about how there are hundreds of distros to choose from and no standardization. Well here it is. You want to write software for Linux, make sure it runs on Ubuntu. You want to release your software on Linux? Offer a deb package. I know it's not the same for the corporate world, where Red Hat and to a lesser extent SuSE reign supreme, but as far as Desktop goes, Ubuntu is it.
Quite frankly I'm glad. I know a lot of people who wanted to try Linux and were scared off by all the choices, or they tried Debian or Slackware or Gentoo as their first distro and were overwhelmed. Those still exist if you want to dive deeper and get your hands a bit dirtier, but having a well put together, polished distro like Ubuntu being the de-facto choice for new Desktop users is a very good thing for Linux adoption in general. - staple, on 04/03/2008, -10/+16I just wish kubuntu was the generic distro....
- trogdor282, on 04/03/2008, -0/+6I figure if you're gonna include GNU/ you should also include xorg/ and firefox/ and openoffice/ and all the zillion other packages as well, to be fair. Or accept that "Linux" is "a software suite that includes Linux"
- flashingcurser, on 04/03/2008, -0/+6You will still find a lot of people who think RedHat=linux. They still do even after they are no longer noobs. From time to time you will hear a reference to "Linux 9"
- stray, on 04/03/2008, -2/+8I certainly hope it is. I know a lot of hardcore Linux users want everyone to use Slackare, Gentoo or another more "pure" Linux, but that just isn't going to happen. My father the technophobe will never want to compile from source or extract a Slackware tarball at /, ever.
- Ellipsys, on 04/03/2008, -0/+5Unfortunately, when your community "opens up" and attracts more general users, you also attract more "noobs spreading idiocy" as a previous poster put it. However, think about WHY they're doing it. If they are submitting votes, brainstorm spam, and dupes it is because they're excited about Ubuntu (and therefore, Linux) and want to have an opinion in how it is developed. Turning them away or telling them they don't belong because they're not gurus is only going to hurt the adoption that some longtime Linux users have been asking about for a long time. With "noobs" come the potential to have more companies write drivers and programs that are Linux compatible. Embrace them, give them user friendliness. Look at Apple - despite a locked down hardware and software platform, this relatively small base of users has convinced many hardware and software manufacturers to support their platform. Imagine if Linux adoption, with its open attitude grew to be the same size as Apple? So lets make some stuff "just work", and put up with people who confuse Ubuntu as Linux and such. In time, when they're truly interested in learning, more experienced gurus can teach. Like it or not, if open source nerds want to move forward, these people are our future.
- raindogmx, on 04/03/2008, -2/+7And this discussion is a great example of what holds Linux from widespread adoption. You want revolution, you want to free the masses of MS Slavery but you keep engaging in bizantine discussions that do nothing but alienate the mainstream pc user. GNU/Linux, Linux, Ubuntu... Windows is just Windows. See, you habve a huge usability problem when you can't even agree on the name of your operating system.
Mac OS is Unix (compliant) and people would call it "Leopard" or "Mac OS X", what's wrong with "Ubuntu"? I think it's great to have a brand as long as it helps increase adoption. If geeks want to help spread Linux around, you'll need to be less anal retentive about it. - GMorgan, on 04/03/2008, -0/+5Stallman cares because he thinks it harms his software movement. I think his argument is flawed. The argument is harming the FSF more than calling the system Linux.
- Philluminati, on 04/03/2008, -0/+5One misconception I see here on digg is that Packager Managers come with distributions to make it easier for noobs and that real professionals compile from source. [lol just realised you didn't say that at all. I've replied to the wrong commment]
That isn't true. Most professionals use a package management solution. Reasons to compile from source include:
- 1) No binary packages are available for your platform.
- 2) You want to customise or optimise the code further.
- 3) You want a more in depth understanding of how the linux or development work.
If you plan on being a professional you should know how to use "./configure", "make" and "make install". But the truth is, real Linux professionals use package management systems and here's why:
- 1) Sanity. Because you don't have to hand write the configuration file for Apache after you compile the software, it's generally more sane and secure.
- 2) Security Updates. It takes one command to make sure your system is up to date and secure.
- 3) We call them package management systems because the contents of the packages aren't always software. You can put your companies template emails and template documents into a package, give it a version and deploy it to a large number of machines quickly and easily. Because packages have versions you can then upgrade the package when the company changes it's letter headed paper etc. You can put dependencies on as well to bring down new fonts and so forth. It works really well for deploying things like this.
- 4) Speed. They are quick and simple. No need to go and find dependencies. No time messing around. You can set up a server in no time at all move on to the other tasks you have. - rmxz, on 04/03/2008, -1/+6I'd rather say that Ubuntu is more the generic Desktop.
I know very few Ubuntu server installations compared even to Debian Stable or Red Hat. - rlbond86, on 04/03/2008, -0/+5Exactly right! Stallman couldn't make a kernel for like 10 years. Moreover, the term GNU/Linux omits X windows, KDE or GNOME, Apache, etc..
As stated by Jim Gettys, originator of X:
"There are lots of people on this bus; I don't hear a clamor of support that GNU is more essential than many of the other components; can't take a wheel away, and end up with a functional vehicle, or an engine, or the seats. I recommend you be happy we have a bus." - MWeather, on 04/03/2008, -1/+5"My car is still a Peugeot, regardless of the manufacturer of the engine."
Bad analogy. Gnu would be the car, while Linux would be the engine. Peugeot just did the body work. - MWeather, on 04/03/2008, -0/+4Which is the main difference between Windows and Linux. When Windows is running on your device, you're painfully aware of it..
- ePuck, on 04/03/2008, -0/+4Hey, a "week" could last years. You don't know the future. All those distros you mentioned were very popular at one time. Becoming the flavor of the week only brings you higher!
- Buelldozer, on 04/03/2008, -1/+5I think you underestimate how common Linux is already! It's in your pocket in the form of a cell phone, mp3 player, or pda. It's in the data center running servers, serving websites, and doing database work. It's on the home WAP/router on your shelf, inside your cable or satellite box, and running your NAS. It's on the network core switch at the office, it''s likely inside any VoIP gear you use at home or the office. In fact about the only place left for it to be is on your desk!
Taken in all of its forms *nix has a far larger install base than Windows. You use it and are surrounded by it all day every day, you just don't realize it. - vincentweber, on 04/03/2008, -0/+4No. There is a Christian Linux distro out there with Bible software.
- JRPereira, on 04/03/2008, -0/+4Yea, I wish people would get that. I'm still pretty new to Linux and I'm using Ubuntu for both my file server and a couple of my laptops (one dual boots with xp until I can get some things figured out) and it seems like every time I announce that I'm using Linux and have a question, I'm bombarded with all sorts of rants about why I'm not doing everything from the command line and why I'm using Ubuntu and such. It was my original impression that the Linux community is all about being helpful and fighting the evil empire but instead it seems to be everything pushing their own rules and agendas.
I still like Linux though and am trying to make it work for me (aka trying to find quality replacements [or getting windows programs working with wine, which I'm also attacked for] for all of the programs I need to be productive [and maybe a few games], and trying to get things fully configured to my liking). I just wish the community would either embrace the converts a little more or at least just not attack them. - CannedMango, on 04/03/2008, -2/+6This is a very positive thing for Linux. To have a user friendly distro that many n00bs can associate with is part of the answer to cracking a larger percentage of the main market.
One thing tech people need to realize is that an overwhelming choice of options is *not* a good thing if you know very little about computers. They just want something that works that is easy to get running. So kudos to the Ubuntu community for making it the easiest Linux distro to work with. - stranger, on 04/03/2008, -3/+7Funny, I just installed Ubuntu last night before going to bed. I've used live cds of other distros before, but this is my first Linux install.
- Archcoder, on 04/03/2008, -0/+4Yeah, it's like that with most tech/programming communities. There are a lot of people that just suck the life out of everything by trying to show off their 1337 c0d1ng 5k1llz. They don't actually contribute anything, they just play the role on an "oldbie" and hate on everyone. Rather than pointing you towards an answer they give you 10 reasons why you're a failure and start to question your intelligence.
That's just when you introduce yourself. -
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