What is Digg?261 Comments
- nemoder, on 10/10/2007, -3/+58Simple Users don't install operating systems.
If you want to compare usability then skip the install process and buy systems with Linux pre-loaded then write your review. - schestowitz, on 10/10/2007, -12/+46As long as they realise that Linux is not Windows (i.e. it requires some learning), then yes -- it's ready indeed.
- backwoodsbob, on 10/10/2007, -6/+40Is any os suitable for simple users? There are a lot of Windows users out there that don't know what they are doing, according to the stats on the number of computers that are infected or turned into bots. Linux is the least of their worries.
- baalzebub, on 10/10/2007, -7/+31you have that right, just a few days ago i was in a computer store, and was talking to another customer and i brought up Linux because he seemed stressed about viruses & malware, and told him that Linux runs great on my PC & no need for anti-virus, spyware scanners & etc, (the benefits of Linux) and this person could not fathom the idea of another operating system, he asked "does that run on windows?" and i explained that Linux is another operating system (an alternative to windows) and he still could not grasp the idea that there are other operating systems besides windows, i just shook my head and walked away leaving him in mid sentence...
- bromac, on 10/10/2007, -4/+22Are your glasses broken? He said SIMPLE USERS.
People shouldn't have to learn to be technicians. It should just work. That's like saying that if I have a new car, and it has issues, I shouldn't be mad that my new car is having issues. I should just learn mechanics on the spot.
Looking down your nose at people and saying "You're just giving up too easy" is passing the buck. And it doesn't win over any new users. - cstrippie, on 10/10/2007, -20/+36Article should be titled: is Linux ready for users who will drop it at the first sign of trouble? Not a single issue he encountered was even *difficult* to resolve, let alone impossible. Then, after he was forced by repeat encounters with the Intel resolution issue to actually LEARN how to FIX it, he never revises his opinions of the distros he dropped when the problem occurred. Useless.
- Onestone, on 10/10/2007, -2/+17Yeah. In September 2007 he is talking about Ubuntu Edgy.
- repete, on 10/10/2007, -2/+16Lets reverse the question. "Are simple users ready for Linux?". Mate, simple users aren't ready for Windows, let alone Linux. I've been helping friends and family so much recently, I need to drag out my "No I will not fix your computer" t-shirt. So...Is anyone with any ability to problem-solve ready for Linux? Sure. Is anyone who panics as soon as an error message appears on the screen, and doesn't think to google it, ready for Linux? No.
- cfd339, on 10/10/2007, -7/+18Is Windows XP? I'm not kidding. I don't do this often (because I'd rather cut my hands off) but I spent the day cleaning up a neighbor's XP/Home machine. It was so fully riddled with spyware and malware that it could no longer be used. The network stack was destroyed by partially installed firewall software from multiple vendors, and for some unknown reasons something set the keyboard type to dvorak -- THAT took a bit of figuring out.
It took me several hours rebuild this PC and save the owner from having to "nuke it from space" and reinstall the operating system. The fact is that if I were to bill the person for the time at my consulting rate it would have been cheaper to buy three different new computers. This is true for anyone qualified to repair such a mess.
The average consumer cannot reasonably secure and maintain a Windows based personal computer. - Spr0k3t, on 10/10/2007, -3/+13Looks like this one has been in the editing room for quite some time. Or is it just me?
- renegadeafk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10You'd be suprised how many widnows users think Internet Explorer "Is the Internet" The concept of even another browser baffles them
- subgeniusd, on 10/10/2007, -3/+13Most of the public don't even get the "I'm a Mac - I'm a PC" ads. They are watched like all the competing car commercials. Same basic power train with different shells and prices. They think Mac and PC are just different hardware configurations running the same software programs.
I couldn't even get the blockheads at work (many in their late teens, 20s) to try FireFox on the break room XP computers. Learning Windows is about all they ever want out of IT and alternatives just challenge their precious comfort zones.
I think I'll save this and paste it next September in the inevitable thread about "Is Linux finally ready for the average user?" story. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -6/+16Linux isn't ready for Middle America, I think most users who use Linux have another computer or run Windows or Mac Platform for most things if anything. I use Fedora Core 5 but I'm not about to drop Mac OS X over it.
- deadbaby, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10That's pretty much what most people use their computers for.
- cstrippie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Ubonetu?
- Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9Yep. Simple users. So why start by installing the OS? It should be pre-installed. Show me a simple user than can install Windows XP... and don't get me started on trying to install XP with AHCI SATA drivers. :P
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11A PhD in Anything means that you can still stick your head in the sand and ignore everything around you. He is uber-smart in astrophysics. An idiot in everything else.
- solonGFX, on 10/10/2007, -8/+15Of course it's ready; this is the year of the linux desktop. Again.
/sarcasm - daftman, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9What these reviewers need to do is to actually get a SIMPLE user and ask him/her to use the system. Most people don't do that when they write reviews. They assume that this is how a simple user would do and extrapolate their annoyances because of something different than what they are used to.
Get a simple user, like a grandmother or a teenager who usually use email, watch videos, word process, then write up a conclusion of their experience. - thesquirrelwood, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6like commenting on digg... heh
- Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Why not? People order Windows PCs when they've never used a computer before. What's the difference, pray tell? Same with Mac - people switch to those too, without trying them. At least a lot of Linux distros offer a LiveCD now - you CAN try before you buy.:P
- Phenax, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Most of the complaints could be solved by companies distributing computers with Linux pre-installed, which is becoming a reality.
- bromac, on 10/10/2007, -5/+11So...you want to win over simple users by being rude and impatient?
Are all Linux users as elitist as you? - cdmarcus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Um, what? Gnome's design beats the crap out of the Windows UI. Much simpler, and easier to find what you want.
- mscf, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Uhh, isn't that what I just said?
- bromac, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I run an office with over 100 users in one site, and a few hundred over Western Canada. I fix a lot of computers.
Because my users shouldn't have to. And I wouldn't be so conceited to suggest that they're childlike. Way to win users, with more elitism? - williebee, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Your silly, I would have used the old windows rhyme.
"fdisk, format, reinstall, Do Da, Do Da" - mscf, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Hey, I am with you. I have dealt with a lot of issues that required just a little research and configuration. I have found the reward of understanding how and why things work to more than outweigh the time and trouble.
He makes a good point, though, when he emphasizes that his experiences are what users new to Linux and without that drive are likely to encounter. I handle IT for a small group home, and have begun (starting with Ubuntu 7.04) using Linux instead of Windows for resident computers. I installed and configured these computers for them, and as long as they are using them for their intended purposes they work fine, but if, for instance, they need to install a new printer even computer savvy staff generally find themselves at a loss, and that is just an issue of unfamiliarity - not troubleshooting an actual problem.
I think Linux is almost there for general consumption, and it gets closer everyday, but it is a mistake to think that it will convert "normal" windows users without a little more simplification of configurations and settings. I recently upgraded my own installation to Gutsy Gibbon, and it is another solid step in the right direction. Another iteration or two, and I think they will have taken care of most of the major stumbling blocks. - google01103, on 10/10/2007, -6/+11This was a pretty fair and realistic realistic assesment of what happens when you try Linux (or any unkown os) for the first time. The disheartning things are what everyone has know all along - weaknesses in package management, hardware compatability, the cli, etc ........ that still need to be worked on. At some point the Linux community will learn that "united we stand, divided we fall" is relevant to them as it is to the world at large.
- Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8Arg - installation is NOT use, for *****'s sake. Simple users can't install Windows either - and it's a damn-sight harder to install than a lot of Linux installs these days.
Linux IS ready for simple users: word processing, spreadsheets, Internet, e-mail, IM and media management. It's all easy, and it's all in the default package. It's not ready for power users (ex-Windows power users, more to the point) and techs without some time to spare. If you want to do something fancy, you need to learn the Linux way of doing it. If you don't have the time or the inclination to do it, then Linux is not ready for you (and perhaps never will be, or ever should be).
^^ this represents my experience of Linux, as a highly-skilled MS PC tech. Retraining my brain to use Linux is harder than giving it to Joe Bloggs and saying 'Have at!'. By the way, if anyone has figured out how to use the latest nVidia drivers, Compiz Fusion and Xinerama, tell me. :p - IllBeBack, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8"Is Linux really ready for Simple Users?"
This is answered in a MAN page somewhere. I know there has to be a FAQ or HOW-TO somewhere that has all the details on this.
And all of the command-line switches for it too. - cdmarcus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4The only Linux distro I really know well is Ubuntu, and it has a great community. The IRC channel and the forums are great places to ask for help, and the only people who get flamed are the people who say things like "I downloaded the OS, and I'm ENTITLED to support. You'd better help me with this problem, or I'm switching to Windows." When you're in an environment where you're getting the OS for free, and the people giving you the free support are volunteers, treat them with a little bit of respect. That said, it's the people who flame the silly-question-askers who get flamed in the Ubuntu IRC channel... most of us are completely happy to answer what you may think is a stupid question.
- praisethelard, on 06/06/2008, -2/+6When they make a distro optimized for porn, let me know.
- Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4That's actually quite good.
- ttamshadbolt, on 10/10/2007, -18/+22no
- buckrogers1965, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Simple users, you mean like with Tivo, or on a cell phone or a PDA or in a web kiosk at a coffee shop or store? Where you just have an application locked to the hardware so the user can't mess anything up?
Yeah, Linux is really the best for a user in those cases. - repete, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4"So, people like you who fix computers and problem-solve can move to Linux"
No...People who can problem-solve (And let's be Frank, or Sam if you prefer, computers can be maddening at the best of times), can move to whatever OS does the job for them and they are ready to use. Some people just shouldn't use computers... - nextyoyoma, on 10/10/2007, -5/+9I'll tell you one thing....the linux community is not ready to accept such "simple" users. The fact that asking a question about something simple in linux will get you flamed and labeled as a n00b. I'm sure there are many of you linux users who aren't that way, but last time I tried to learn linux (about 6 years ago on Mandrake) i gave up because I couldn't get a straight answer to any of my questions.
- Coldkill, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4SHUT UP! BROMAC
- bromac, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7Of course, the parent post is still getting Dugg up by people that just blame their users instead of the OS.
Yeah. That's going to help you win market share. Blame the users. Isn't that what RIAA does? - RichMan, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Yes. I believe that it is, as long as everything is compatibile. I imagine that a Dell Linux-certified computer would be great for a simple user.
- bromac, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3No I wouldn't. It's the Big Blue E (TM). I have an office that is about half those users.
These people still know what "Installing Software" is. Otherwise they wouldn't fill their computers with crap that we have to clean out. - mscf, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4And if you mean the computers I maintain for my employer when you say "design for your target market," my target market is a small company that doesn't have much money, and just needs to provide computers for, primarily, word processing. As I said, Linux is the perfect solution for that.
I have had to provide much less support for these machines than the XP machines, where residents decide they want to install a game, but when it won't run for lack of RAM they decide to start deleting files out of system32.
So, I did design for my target market. - Tenoq, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Yeah, because no-one customises there PC set up at all.
Easy to say, not easy to do. The majority of PC users have software on their machines they MUST HAVE, but don't have the discs to re-install. The most common one is accounting software, followed by anything that uses a database. Just 'wipe & reinstall' is not a valid or cost-effective option for these people. They're better off spending the 3-4 hours labour it takes to get their machine back to running as it was, than spending an hour formatting & re-installing, then 5+ hours trying to setup the machine again just the way they had it (excluding software costs, as they invariably need to buy the software again). - 3Den, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5Comparing linux in general is pointless.
Is Ubuntu ready for simple users? Heck yes. -
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