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Interview with Linus Torvalds

oneopensource.it — Microsoft, GPLv3, FUD, Debian, and more

Who dugg this? Made popular Jul 17, 2007

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  • Felshadow, on 10/11/2007, -2/+47I like him because...well...hes a nerd, just like bill gates used to be, which is why everyone always talked about him "blah blah blah richest person is a nerd", and thats why steve jobs bugs the hell out of me, because hes not a programmer, hes just a guy who shows off ***** he probably barely knows how to use.

    Linus is a nerd doing a nerds job, not a guy in blue jeans toting a piece of ***** with an apple on it that people will buy because it has an apple on it.
  • jtb4, on 10/11/2007, -6/+37Dugg :) Linus ranks right on up there with the Woz in coolness
  • thecheatah, on 10/11/2007, -0/+30I dont admire Linus for his "coolness", but the fact that everything he says make sense. Meaning it can be backed up by logical reasoning. On top of that his views of the world are very peaceful.
  • NerdyNinja, on 10/11/2007, -0/+28Hahah, that's the first time I've ever seen someone reply to a question in an interview with an 'I don't care'. Right on
  • ryanknapper, on 10/11/2007, -2/+24That's inaccurate. Linux is like having fifteen different models of car from which to chose, like an SUV or a Mini or an armored truck. Vista is like having a Honda Accord Family Lite, Honda Accord Family Like with Extra, Honda Accord Basic, Honda Accord Family Basic, Honda Accord Business, Honda Accord Family Business, Honda Accord Business Family Basic and Honda Accord The One You Really Want But Can't Afford.
  • bencefeher, on 10/11/2007, -2/+16Sometimes I wish that there was a feature on Digg that let you give one comment per month +100 diggs. If there was, I would have just used it on you.
  • rotten777, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13There's more momentum now than ever. Why would you throw in the towel with this situation?

    Besides, desktops aren't the only game in town.
  • Markie1006, on 10/11/2007, -3/+15Actually his is just responsible for the Kernel - just one thing.

    You're getting confused with each distro, which he has nothing to do with.
  • Hermmunster, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13I actually liked the interview. The only thing I didn't agree with was his commentary on GPL v.3. I think GPL v.3 is going to protect the programmers much more than GPL v.2 did/does.

    I can appreciate his candor on the issue of ease of install. It is exactly what needed to be said. Being hard core technical isn't where Linux is headed nor should it be. It should always be focused on giving the customers/users what they want. I applaud Linus for that.
  • compgeek, on 10/11/2007, -2/+13Linus Torvalds The sober soft spoken yin to bill gates richest man in the world windows ***** producing yang
  • Shadow503, on 10/11/2007, -6/+16You have to admire a man who 'htinks'!
  • ryanknapper, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10No, it's there because we know you'd whine about it.
  • alexw, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Oh, excuse us for getting something on the front page that is not an iPhone story nor a picture.
  • Wyzard, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6The current debian-installer is much more automated and straightforward than the old one. People have heard "Debian is hard to install" years ago when it was actually true, and they haven't checked back to find that it's not true anymore.

    Also, Debian's install isn't graphical; it's text-based, the same thing you see on Ubuntu's "alternate" disc. (The most recent Debian release has a graphical mode available, but it's not enabled by default.) Some people are intimidated by anything that's not graphical, though, so they still say Debian is hard to install just because they see it uses text mode. (Linus, of course, is not one of these people.)
  • Wyzard, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6"Since linux kernel developers are actively encouraged NOT to check to see if their code will violate any patents, of course they wouldn't know. They are being intentionally ignorant. The reason is patent law tends to have greater penalties for those who knowingly violate patents, so by not checking they are, in a way, gaining some protection."

    The Linux kernel developers aren't the only ones doing that. Developers of proprietary software often do the same thing, for the same reason -- including, probably, at Microsoft.

    Linux probably does infringe some of Microsoft's patents. But the other half of the story, which Microsoft doesn't tell you, is that a) a number of those patents would probably be ruled invalid if they ever went to court, and b) Windows probably infringes a bunch of patents owned by IBM and others. Remember the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction -- if Microsoft were to start suing Linux users and distributors for patent infringement, you can bet they'd suddenly find themselves on the receiving end of a bunch of lawsuits too.
  • RealmDown, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8Seconded.

    All in favor?
  • dan90251, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7There's probably a patent on checking patents hence you can't check them without violating at least one.

    I liked the interview, just a techie doing what he enjoys, not driven by market-share and money but simply by wanting to evolve the software making it continually better.

    Actually when I think about it the whole evolution analogy works really well especially in the web based software as a service methodology.
  • RealmDown, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8He's the brother of Lucy Van Pelt. And she's famous!
  • lengau, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7Aye!
  • mahdaeng, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6He's not always that soft-spoken - but that's one of the things I like about him.
  • ilovenicotine, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6You care enough to write about him. I think you love him and he broke your heart...
  • omababy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5quote "I really don’t care. You’re asking all these marketing and company questions, and the thing is, I’m not at all into it. I’m totally uninterested. What I’m into is the technology, and working together with people."

    This isn't a reason to turn a blind eye on the subject.
  • ryanknapper, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6Tell that to Sun. They aren't as important as they once were, but if you have a critical need and require five 9s or more you should really look at Sun. But they don't have desktop penetration, so they should just shut the doors.
  • atdigg, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6I wonder why Linus is such a troll magnet? Opposites attract? Genius attracts comments from idiots?
  • Cederosa, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6He was mocking the interviewer, because he made a obvious grammatical error in the question. It was funny.
  • ratbear, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5I like Linus because he doesn't pull any punches, and doesn't let the FSF push him around. I derive extreme gratification when a foss zealot melts down because Torvalds is very pragmatic about OSS licenses and software in general. He doesn't seem to believe in this moral crusading that Stallman and his disciples get caught up in. "Fighting" proprietary software is NOT morally equivilent to eradicating disease or combating poverty. I mean think of the MASSIVE egos on these guys. Software as a philisophical conflict is about as laughable as paris hilton headlining the cable news networks 24x7.
  • jdhore1, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4That would be his brother, Axl Torvalds
  • daftman, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3The fact that it is written in "lawyer-eze" is because it is a LEGAL DOCUMENT? Gasp!! Programmers are not lawyers and that's the reason why GPLv2 didn't convey the message that it is trying to get across. In programmer's terminology, there were bugs in the GPLv2.
    > We will put limits on your freedom so that you are more free!
    Incorrect. It is more like "we limits freedoms of those who want to copy from you" so you are more free. GPLv3 doesn't apply to the source code you are creating. It applies for those who are COPYING and USING your code. Got it?
  • jamelt, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Love his insight. He seems to look beyond a lot of superficial technological politics.
  • daftman, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Here's a simple breakdown to you at the level you can understand.
    Software is knowledge. Knowledge is built upon other knowledge. If you restrict knowledge, the world becomes dumb. For example, Newton or Galileo making you pay everytime you look at the stars or use F = MA in your technology. Thus every time you write software, you are creating something using the knowledge of someone else who freely give it to you.
  • init100, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3"unless the developers are actively checking that it won't happen."

    That won't work, since developers are usually incompatible with legalese.
  • jdhore1, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6I completely agree Feishadow...Bill Gates is just a rich guy who had one good idea (which it really wasn't) that made him rich. Jobs...Well, he's just an ***** who comes out and shows off ***** Apple products and kind of does CEO-type crap...Linus is the only "OS Icon" that actually still does coding, is a cool guy, is willing to do interviews with people who don't have 500,000 viewers/subscribers/listeners. Personally, even if i didn't run Linux, i'd prolly say Linus > *....or Linus is my homeboy. http://www.jinx.com/other_swag/stickers/geek/linus_is_my_homeboy.html?catid=1
  • gmillerd, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5Well there are a lot more Windows than 7 if we are to use your fallacy. Putting them each on CDs and asking the customer to 'choose' is likely to be just as confusing. Your your response is market share related vista > xp > win98 > win95 > win31 > dos then the same would be true of linux. Nobody is asking someone to choose between seven different red hats or seven different debians.
  • fusama, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3"As far as we know, the answer is a resounding 'no'"

    *sigh* Why must he resort to being intentionally misleading on the patent issue. Key words there are 'as far as we know'. Since linux kernel developers are actively encouraged NOT to check to see if their code will violate any patents, of course they wouldn't know. They are being intentionally ignorant. The reason is patent law tends to have greater penalties for those who knowingly violate patents, so by not checking they are, in a way, gaining some protection.

    With how broken the patent system is and the sheer number of garbage patents granted (glorified to do list, double click on a mobile device...), there's really no doubt that any large piece of code (like say, the linux kernel) is going to violate a number of patents unless the developers are actively checking that it won't happen.
  • mtthwmiddleton, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1it's a legal document that's meant for programmers to use and therefore understand, so I think it would be beneficial to make sure programmers can understand it? I mean if we don't and use it couldn't that be more detrimental than anything? Or what if people don't use it because they can't understand it? All I was saying the GPL v2 was written for programmers to understand this one isn't which scares me to an extent. And your second point really doesn't change the nonsensical nature of it, they are still limiting your freedom to ensure freedom? doesn't make sense to me. In fact it draws a stark resemblance to the patriot act in my mind. It's not like I'm the first to think this, and also just for help in the future when talking about a topic, even if you disagree with someone, a little tact goes a long way.
  • mtthwmiddleton, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4Ehh, I don't know, seems to me like the GPL v.3 is trying to force everyone to play in the OS sandbox. If you look at what it says (which is hard b/c it's written in lawyer-eze, unlike the GPL v.2 which was obviously written for the programmers to be able to understand) it's kind of like "We will put limits on your freedom so that you are more free!! I don't know, I think he has a lot of reason to be skeptical about it.
  • jdrivein, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Exactly.
    I can't believe Linus finds Debian difficult to install. He can hack the Linux kernel but he can't press yes until the Debian installer ends. He obviously never tried it.
    Should we ship him a net-install cd? :)
  • jdrivein, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Exactly.
    I can't believe Linus finds Debian difficult to install. He can hack the Linux kernel but he can't press yes until the Debian installer ends. He obviously never tried it.
    Should we ship him a net-install cd? :)
  • booticon, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2bias, I think you're confused. His creation (singular, that being the kernel) /has/ generated a myriad of distros. But this isn't all under him, or under a single company for that matter.
  • decoherence, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3"Newer versions (of a license) don’t necessarily mean “better”, especially when the new versions are more complex, and limit usage more."

    Sounds like the GPLv2 vs. BSD license argument.
  • aservin, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2Nice interview, very valid points about GPLv3 and Microsoft. I just do not agree with that debian is hard to install.
  • userxrage, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2You're "beign" to picky.
  • aprymak, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Just because it is gonna be more than 2000 diggs!
  • Nylonathetep, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Looking at the questions, it's more likely that it was a written interview... Like a questionnaire.

    Would be fun though, the interviewer recording the result, doing different voices for himself and Torvalds.
  • disappointed, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1You didn't see Tony Blair's last Prime Minister's Questions then, were, when asked for his opinions on the link between state and church replied something along the lines of "I'm really not interested in that!"
  • daftman, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Yep this is also the year where you can email the questionnaires and have them sent back. It kinda save you time and money from travelling. Even better, chat rooms or MSN allows it to be interactive !!!!

  • userxrage, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1don't you mean "too"? jackass
  • userxrage, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0yes, and later he made the same error with "begin"
  • maz2331, on 10/11/2007, -2/+0Why is it that the FSF seems so dead-set against Linus' freedom to disagree with them? I believe that it's that they are a political group disguised as a software one. There's a lot of zealots out there nowadays who want to gurantee one "freedom" at the expense of every other freedom people have, which results in nobody having any real freedom of choice. The FSF are dyed in the wool socialists philosophically, and care so much about end users' absolute freedom that their position is that it's okay to trample the developers' rights to distribute their own code as they see fit, or what use it can be put to. Microsoft and proprietary software companies for the most part are captitalist/mercantalist in nature, and will trample the end user any way they see fit to maximize their rights. Linus is somewhere in between, more or less a pragmatist and libertarian in nature. More or less a "live and let live" mentality where he doesn't care how the code is used, just so long as the modifciations come back upstream. It's this basic philosophical difference that separates Linus from Stallman. GPL2 was more-or-less a perfect fit for Linus' view, and GPL3 is closer to Stallman's. (And... an MS Eula is god-awful).
  • DrawingTheSun, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1there the hardest game in town though, more difficult to get into.
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