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138 Comments
- fuzzmeister, on 10/11/2007, -5/+157Do some tech support sometime, you'll start to agree with him.
- weeeezzll, on 10/11/2007, -7/+148I'll tell you how Microsoft found what they think are infringements, they stole the top secret Linux source code and compared it to their own. Those dirty thieves!!!!
O_o
Seriously though. If Microsoft found code that was similar or the same in the Windows kernel then they should be happy. It would mean they did at least 228 things right in the Windows kernel. - Justathought, on 10/11/2007, -12/+112"Let's face it, the average computer user has the brain of a Spider Monkey." - Bill Gates.
http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/14796&ts0hb=&story=ht
:) - emiliogtz, on 10/11/2007, -2/+95I second Gates on that one.
- strangewill, on 10/11/2007, -4/+81Yeah, I agree. Though I think thats a little offensive to the spider monkey.
- Dumbledorito, on 10/11/2007, -4/+74Especially if said tech support is for your relatives.
- geoken, on 10/11/2007, -13/+64I love it when people make horrendous grammatical errors while defending their intelligence.
- ever, on 10/11/2007, -2/+37@geoken
"I love it when people make horrendous grammatical errors while defending their intelligence."
.. Just as a side note, not all of us are native English speakers. Making grammatical errors doesn't always mean one's an idiot.
Just saying this as a Finn - not everyone can type or speak perfect English but that doesn't make them less intelligent. So often it feels like people stick the to the grammar when they can't really say anything worthy about the subject itself. - brianary, on 10/11/2007, -8/+42"If you can't compete in the marketplace, you can only compete litigiously."
-- Any given Microsoft supporter speaking about Sun, late 1990's. - workharderscum, on 10/11/2007, -3/+36@Alegoo92
Microsoft's problem is that Linux is not a company, it is an open source product supported by several other large companies and disparate groups that Microsoft cannot buy or lawyer to death. Even if they were to enter cross licensing agreements with all the major companies involved, there would still be fanatical diehards (e.g. Stallman) willing to distribute Linux without a Microsoft tax.
So this is one of their other options - vaguely threaten lawsuits against customers to increase the perceived risk of using Linux over other operating systems. This kind of thing can really make a difference when CTO's read articles in the technical press and want to be sure that they are not going to be sued/fired for not buy Microsoft. - workharderscum, on 10/11/2007, -6/+23@theuber1337
But you've still got to post a comment.... fight the addiction! You'll overcome it one day! - selgan, on 10/11/2007, -11/+26Its simple. If you can't take them out completely, make their cost of doing business higher. I wonder how much its cost the linux community it wasted time and/or legal fees on all this BS. ...just a thought.
- Ngai, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15damn MS..
is it possible to patent the process of patenting?...
/sarcasm... - Cwo655321, on 10/11/2007, -2/+15@tpaine
well made up as in "bill gates did not say that", but true as in "well its true!" - tpaine, on 10/11/2007, -4/+16@umbraigo
"That is a made up quote that happens to be true" ... so it's an accurate quote? Not really sure what your point is. - HappyProgrammer, on 10/11/2007, -2/+14
> Microsoft is just doing what it must to protect its' intellectual property.
If I called you a thief, would you be able to defend yourself if I refused to tell you what it is that I am accusing you of stealing?
That is essentially what Microsoft is doing here. They are claiming that all Linux users are violating their patents but refuse to say what patents. - xspinkickx, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12@geoken
scientists and engineers regularly have bad spelling and grammatical skills, as probably proven by this reply. - PatrickHenry, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12Yep, that is how come SCO Unix is a household OS now..........
/sarcasm - rmxz, on 10/11/2007, -7/+16It's not how dumb we are - it's how dumb CEOs and CFOs are.
Pretty much everyone who follows the details knows that this is all a bunch of empty threats.
But if Microsoft takes out your CEO to lunch and says
"Yeah, and SCO had nothing too - but look how much it cost IBM in dollars and years fighting that one off"
most execs will cave in and pay whatever they ask - just to avoid the bogus lawsuit. - rssej, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11Im just going to answer the initial question, then i'll go check out the article. Over 90 percent of people use windows, and 80 percent use IE; it is safe to assume MS can bet on a lot of people being dumb.
- init100, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10"look how much it cost IBM in dollars and years fighting that one off"
They pretty much had to, otherwise they would have been inviting companies to file loads of frivolous lawsuits just to see if they could get a piece of IBM's pile of cash. They had to send a message that each opponent would be completely and utterly annihilated. - bigspruce, on 10/11/2007, -4/+12@zonk3r
"How can you accuse someone of an act yet produce no evidence that one did such act?"
Works for GW and his posse ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_weapons_of_mass_destruction ) - workharderscum, on 10/11/2007, -5/+13Microsoft probably won't sue anyone over this. But they will wave their patent claims around and make noise about how they could sue people. So you'd better not use linux, because it would be.... unfortunate if something bad were to happen if you did, you know?
- dielawn, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10nothing is hidden in linux, thats why we call it open source
- umbriago, on 10/11/2007, -7/+14That's a made-up quote from a satirical website.
(even if it is true, which it happens to be)
http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/interviews/gates.html - zonk3r, on 10/11/2007, -5/+12How can you accuse someone of an act yet produce no evidence that one did such act?
- looksliketrent, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8"they also won't tell us how they found them."
You can't be serious, right?
I mean, the source code for the Linux kernel isn't available for anyone to view, edit, and then residistribute or anything. - maffick, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9Considering Bush was elected twice, I don't think MSFT can underestimate my fellow citizens stupidity.
- rasterbator, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6"What kinds of tools/processes did Microsoft use to determine which open-source code allegedly infringes on Microsoft's patents?"
They ran Live Search on the documents.
/sarcasm... - Philluminati, on 10/11/2007, -3/+8Not for novell.
Novel are now leaches on Linux. Their contributions back to be community aren't accepted by many for fear of patent contamination. Whilst business users are getting a great interoperability deal now, Novel might not be able to work with the larger linux community like others can and they'll have less influence in areas they wanted developed. Those areas they may have to go alone. - digitalranger, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7They owe the explanation to the people they are accusing. Which is exactly why they get compared to SCO, because when SCO too IBM to court they wouldn't specify what they were precisely complaining about. That is also why SCO got thrown out of court and why MS will as well if they try it without SHOWING US THE CODE.
- BZKyle, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9This reminds me of a quote from an IRC bot...
"jbot drags an unsuspecting client into court suing them for millions of dollars, all under the mysterious rule 11." - secion8, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5" Or, considering that they're following SCO's failed path in FUDing Linux and open source, perhaps we should ask, "How dumb is Microsoft?" "
Yes, Fear usually makes you think irrationally! - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6They sound just like SCO.
- shinda, on 10/11/2007, -5/+9Considering the %age of users using Linux compared to the %age of users using Windows and the price tag attached with each Windows OEM, would say Microsoft thinks that majority of people out there are incredibly stupid, then again can you blame them?
- OBKenobi, on 10/11/2007, -8/+12How dumb does Microsoft think you are?
"Let's face it, the average computer user has the brain of a Spider Monkey." - Bill Gates, world's richest thief. - totorototoro, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5"So, Microsoft asks businesses and developers to not only take it on faith that Linux and open-source software violate its patents, it won't even give us a hint as to how they found out! Amazing. Simply amazing."
You just don't get it. Microsoft isn't asking you to take it on faith that Linux software violates its patents. They are asking CTO's "are you willing to take it on faith that it doesn't? And are you willing to bet the company's infrastructure on it?" That is all its gonna take. - cartboy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Oh wait didn't Mac get the GUI for Xerox and also the iPod interface from Creative
- Akidan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3No, Soylent Green is dead people!
- workharderscum, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Oh, I forgot - part of the patent process requires the owner to submit all details of the patented technology, so Microsoft shouldn't have anything to lose by identifying the patents in question.
- webtroy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3its not about "how dumb M$ thinks you are" its about "How much money, either organization can make; with or without an opposing force infringing on patents"
I like linux and support it fully, but in the end its all business.
1. Microsoft relies on selling a product to make their money.
2. Linux relies on FUNDING to release a product.
both organizations make $$$, except for the 3rd party coders of course.
imho. - generalloy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Mary Jo Foley does a lot of great work, kudos to her for this.
- rasterbator, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4In the next Linux kernel, there should be a hidden line of code every 100 lines that says:
All play and no work makes Ballmer a dull boy. - HsoKinees, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3MS needs a C&D order placed on them to prevent them from spreading this FUD unless they're going to publically(or internet...ly?) the patents in question
- Philluminati, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6Microsoft would look dumb their "novell and ingenious intellectual property" turns out to be 200 crappy widgets like combo boxes or mouse focus effects that are nothing more than sutble features on existing products. Not to mention their really clever idea, sudo, lol.
In these claims, their ability to make the threat is obviously worth more than the patents are. - mrmudgeon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I interectly buy alot of server equipment as I work with largish data processing company as chief architect. In tht role, I buy alot of servers: both windows and linux. I have been tracking this issue of SCO/MS and Linux for quite a while.
Because of the role I have I deal with attorneys quite alot. Out of that interaction, several points seem relevant to the discussion.
* Microsoft has never threatened to sue US even though they are aware of our use of Linux.
* Microsoft is exposing itself to tortious interference claims and maybe even racketeering charges of their allogations are completely unfounded. While it may be fun to bluff, playing poker in a federal court can be dangerous. A tortious interference claim can come up when a company tries to interfere or cause one of the parties in a contract to break the contract. Threatening people with litagation when you have no basis for it is quite dangerous. It is dangerous to even make a claim and then be slow to offer proof.
* If the claims were with merit, MS would have pressed harder a long time ago. With alot of help from IBM and others, Linus has really hurt their market share in many server categories. If they had a solid case to present, it would have been presented just to stop the bleeding in the enterprise corner of the market. This looks like SCO redux. If you go back in history, one finds that MS managed to put some resources into that case also.
* I know the guts of windows and Linux rather well. I am struggling to find where MS has patents that Linux is infringing. MS probably infringes on the GPL coverage that much of Linux enjoys when you get away from the OS kernel. There is no way to no with a close system like theirs.
* IBM used similar tactics in the late 70s and 80s. Just before they began a long fall. It did not work for IBM then and wont work for MS now. Competing on innovation and technical quality is safer, but not easier for such a large company.
* If MS starts too many suits against users of Linux, many of their customers will start moving to open office. Office is a more profitable product than windows. - bassplayer71, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I don't know, how dumb are you?
- workharderscum, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2But if they have the straight flush, they should show their hand to get triple damages for deliberate infringement of their patents.
@victorc26 : Most patents wouldn't require Microsoft to reveal their source code. Patents tend to be about features and ideas rather than specific implementation details - BlackAdderIII, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Straight flush?
Oh dear, you need to look at the legal landscape on software patents, who has what in their portfolios, and who has the ability to make something of it.
If 200 or so patents is what they have, Microsoft is blustering and posturing over a high-card, and nothing more.
"""Thank you! Geez, do people really expect MS to show their source code? Especially now?"""
There's no question of whether there's any code written by Microsoft being the problem. That is not how software patents work.
Basically, Microsoft would have to claim they own "concepts" that may have been in other people's minds when they did their own work. That is what software patents are, in real-world terms.
Why do you think software patents aren't allowed in many places, and aren't generally supported by programmers? - CptBuck, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Assuming they exist (which i don't think they do) wouldn't it be very simple to find IP theft in an open source program? sure, you have to search through thousands of lines of code, but with the right search i don't imagine it would be hard.
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