What is Digg?224 Comments
- RoboDonut, on 09/22/2008, -14/+153Almost? It did win the battle for _my_ desktop.
The problem isn't with Linux. The problem is that people expect it to be a drop-in replacement for Windows. If that's what they want, they can just wait for a stable ReactOS release.
An article called "Linux is NOT Windows" explains the problems with peoples' expectations of Linux.
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
What one person considers to be "complicated" may be extremely straightforward to another person. Editing well-commented configuration files is simpler to me than digging through the ever-changing Windows control panel looking for one feature which Microsoft hides because it's "too dangerous" for the average user to tinker with. - php4me, on 09/22/2008, -6/+40It's won my desktop too. The problem is it won't be winning anyone who goes to the store and buys a computer. They already have Windows/Mac preinstalled. Why would they waste their time installing Linux?
Until Linux is offered as a preinstalled desktop at stores, it will never "take over". - Klowner, on 09/22/2008, -5/+30There are those of us who are filled with rage when forced to use Windows for any length of time. And yes, you're correct that with windows you can just drive to the store, shell out some cash for a piece of software, go home, put the disc in the tray, run the installer, follow the install steps, and it's installed very easily..
I'll stick with my apt-get - InvisibleInk, on 09/22/2008, -6/+31Ask not what Linux can do for you, ask what you can do for Linux.
- wacked, on 09/22/2008, -2/+24Wow. The battle isn't over and somebody's saying "Mission Accomplished". 'nuff said.
- StripeyMagee, on 09/22/2008, -9/+29I quit Windows after MS dropped support for NT4.0. Never looked back.
- inactive, on 09/22/2008, -13/+30I've used Ubuntu, SuSe, Red Hat and I always end up going back to Windows. I don't think there is a compelling enough reason for people to move over. Windows works just fine. The whole virus argument doesn't really motivate people because its simple to find and setup a free anti-virus program. Plus with Windows you can just grab a retail copy of software and install it easily.
- roebeet, on 09/23/2008, -1/+17It still needs a killer app, that's the problem.
For Windows, that app was Excel - it pushed users out of the DOS and Lotus 1-2-3 world. Word then did the same for WordPerfect and eventually Microsoft Office killed all the competition. DirectX also cemented things on the gaming side, when Win9x was released.
It's all about the apps. - ArthurSucks, on 09/22/2008, -5/+20I don't know if Linux will ever be "Ready for the Desktop" or not, but I do know that Linux has found more users in the last few years than it ever has before. If you're a power user, and you enjoy the benefits of Linux, great! If you still think your computer is powered by magic gnomes that hide inside your box, then XP or OSX is just fine. The Linux community is a healthy ever growing group that I'm proud to be a part of.
- wallclimber, on 09/22/2008, -3/+18I think the most humorous part of these kinds of discussions is that no one really knows how many people use non-Windows systems on their desktops. There's simply no way to get accurate numbers, and that's not a bad thing at all.
In the article there's a line that says: "We're never likely to see Microsoft bow its head in defeat and step back..."
That's true, we are far more likely to see Microsoft managment spend tons of money and time denying that GNU/Linux is any sort of a threat, then panicking when they finally realize the deed is already done.
The "year" of Linux has quietly happened already. In fact, history may end up calling this the Decade of Linux. It's just silly to say that Linux must "take over" in order to be successful. Why on Earth would any of us want ANY business to take over? A level field with lots of choice and competition would be much much better. Who wants to deal with bullies anymore?
Enough of my friends, family and business partners use Linux or Macs that my life is much calmer now. I don't have to spend weekends helping Windows users anymore. Even as little as 14 months ago this was not the case. I was the ONLY one in the group not using Windows.
Mine is a mighty small corner of the world, but to see such a steady withdrawal from Microsoft products - by everyday people - is pretty amazing. Deny it and belittle it all they want, it's still happening right under the Monopoly's nose, and they can't stop it:
http://archive.salon.com/tech/fsp/2000/03/06/chapt ... - Rewdog, on 09/23/2008, -0/+14It can't win, because you need windows to run linux. Duh.
http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12355-0.html?forumI ...
(Its just been too long since I've seen that link) - BalooUrsidae, on 09/22/2008, -10/+23Buried for inaccuracy. It won my desktops at home, and my business runs Linux on the desktop.
- slugicide, on 09/22/2008, -2/+14sudo apt-get install cool-new-app
done. - RoboDonut, on 09/23/2008, -0/+11@shadoweva09
Not everyone has the same needs.
@Phazoni:
I know it can be a little frustrating at first because these things are not immediately obvious, but you installed the driver the _hard_ way. This is a common mistake I see Linux newbies make. The Windows mentality is "if I need a driver, I'll go to the manufacturers' website and download it". This is _not_ the way things are done in Linux.
If you cooperate with your package manager, it will be your greatest ally. If you fight it, it will become your worst enemy. Don't install manually what can be installed through Apt. - badassninja, on 09/23/2008, -1/+12Amarok. Can't live with out it.
- OneLess, on 09/23/2008, -3/+14So if I buy a Chevy Impala to replace my Ford Taurus and expect every button and lever to be in exactly the same place as they were on my Taurus, it's Chevy's fault that they aren't?
- Waterrat, on 09/23/2008, -6/+17For me,there is no tie involved. Linux is my OS. I have no reason to use Windows.
Even Skype works in Linux now. - fireashes, on 09/22/2008, -6/+16the key word is almost. I love linux. Well, I use xp and ubuntu both so, i guess tie?
- SteveCUBE, on 09/23/2008, -2/+12download a new graphics
- vincentweber, on 09/23/2008, -1/+11Dugg for truth, but Linux, to me at least, goes far beyond what I expected it to be. I started using it on and off 7 years ago. Now that I consider myself a Linux guru it gives me so much more possibilities than Windows. If it wasn't for the fact that Wine can not run all of my games with one install (game a works with version x, while game b works with version y) I would never even want to touch Windows ever again.
The problem I guess is that Linux is different from Windows, just like Mac OS X is something completely different (Linux and Mac OS X are both Unix-/*NIX-like so they kinda work the same way beyond the GUI...). The problem lying herein is that it is actually better, IF you know how it works. If you, like me, don't have a friend who can teach you how it works, you'd better not use it or you need to take a ***** of time to learn it.
If you are not a power user and only do internet browsing, write some documents and listen to some music than Linux is already easy enough (might be even easier than Windows) to install and use. I can only recommend Ubuntu in this case. But if you don't learn it then you'll never know how great it can be and you'll be stuck to just downloading some music and maybe, if you are a little lucky, play a limited set of Wine supported games, while Wine can run way more games if you are a skilled Linux user. Even (yes) Crysis at high settings. - kd420, on 09/23/2008, -0/+9Its not about "winning". Imagine if millions of people were paying ***** of money for a crappy car, and I build my own (with a little time of my own of course) for free, and it runs 10X better than their cars. I can tell them about how easy it is etc. but if they don't listen, not my loss. I've still "won" my personal competition, if they're fine the way they are I'm not going to keep bugging them.
- PaulRay, on 09/23/2008, -3/+12When you talk about the "Average User", any of the modern Linux distros, ubuntu, Mandriva, Mint, etc. allow all the config they'd need through the GUI. The only people who need to dig into the terminal are people, like me, who are used to using it and find it quicker to type a few commands than click through the GUI. Or people who ,again like myself, like to play with bleeding edge goodies. "Average users" would find modern linux to be quite easy to use.
- NoYouAreTheMan, on 09/23/2008, -0/+9Quite frankly, Linux is preinstalled on some desktops and laptops. Dell, for example, offers Linux preinstalled.
- westyvw, on 09/23/2008, -3/+12How right you are!
Windows is like having one hand tied behind your back:
Wheres the useful clipboard?
The select and paste :right click, are you serious? every time?
Why cant windows do single clicking correctly, if you set it it will just mess you up. So in windows I have a mish mash of single click task bar, single click widgets and web browser, but double click icons and files. Yeah that makes sense.
The tools to pass information from one application to another via pipes?
Why do I have to use file extensions, why cant the OS just know what file I am using?
Why does the windows text editor suck so bad?
Why cant I just throw a CD in and drag and drop a folder of my preference of OGG, Flac, Wave, or MP3 onto another device?
Why all the damn nagware and Eula crap?
Why cant I click on a window to maximize it either horizontal, vertical, or both?
Why isnt spell checking integrated throughout all applications?
Why cant I send a window to the back ground?
Where are multiple workspaces?
Where is a decent shell with completion and history?
Why do I not have multiple views of files types in the "windows explorer" including icons, properties, images, etc?
Why is every thing a god damn wizard so when I have to do it again there is NO HISTORY of what it was before so I cant just script it?
Why cant I just move my home directory somewhere else and know I have a backup?
Why cant I export my package list to a text file then input that text file into a package manager on another computer (or vm) and have all the same apps I had before?
Ditto with configs?
What the ***** were they thinking (aside from we will FORCE you out of dos) by naming anything "Documents and Settings"?
Why the hell is there a damn registry?
Whats this defrag crap (NTFS - Nice Try at a File System)
How come I cant drag and drop almost any contents I want onto the desktop and it simply ask me a file name?
Why does the task manager suck so bad and hardly tell me a damn thing?
Why do a quarter of my systems resources have to be swallowed up by software that protects my OS from the rest of the world?
Why cant they let go of this CTR-ALT-Delete nonsense to log in?
How come memory and interrupts in the Windows kernel is so crappily managed?
Why are there so many types of Windows - so I cant just have the best version and run any damn server or
networking I choose when I want to?
Why does it have to call home (unless you pay for corporate)?
Why does it have to reboot after an update?
Why does it forget everything I was doing when it does the reboot? If I do shut down the linux box, when I start it back up everything is just the way I left it.
Wheres my cool ssh and xforwarding tools and remote administration?
When I look for new software why do I always get a sinking feeling that 1 of threee things is going to happen: 1. the application has malware, 2. the application will mess up another application, and 3. when I dont want it anymore its going to be splattered all over my registry and just will never fully go away
And finally: why do I feel like I am using a computer from the 80's with a half assed attempt at an interface running programs only interesting to old white men? - inactive, on 09/22/2008, -0/+8with the cute penguin icon?
- phalanxcronos, on 09/23/2008, -3/+11"Openoffice - Kills word."
***** - emeralddragon, on 09/23/2008, -1/+9A sequel to "How Germany almost won World War 2" and "How Mondale almost Beat Reagan"
- TrellSaracen, on 09/23/2008, -4/+12Re "the problems with peoples' expectations of Linux":
Perhaps the real problem is that Linux does not live up to peoples' expectations of Linux? - DestroyFascism, on 09/23/2008, -1/+8If hardware vendors got their ***** together Linux would be eating MS in many ways indeed.
Creative sux and offers broken driver to win users failing to provide a working driver for Linux / MAC
Cannon printers work, mutli function scanners do not - cannon fail! (the released drivers are limited and often fail to work)
Lexmark is another company that fails the *nix acid test
WiFI cards fail to provide even the most basic of documentation that would lead to a working driver
If these vendors and many more supported MAC / *Nix the world would be a better place for me at least. I would be able to deliver what the clients want and not provide something only because its supported.
I refuse to use Windows. I thinks its clunky and its TCO is way to high. I build computers and install Linux on them. I train in Linux and I help grandmas learn the internet using Linux, keeping them safe and keeping the costs down. Vendors need to wise up! - atdigg, on 09/23/2008, -2/+9There are millions of Linux users, yes, its a small percentage, but it is growing, and I've never seen many people who used Linux for more than 6 months to switch back to Windows.
It's a slow process, but forces of the market will blow Windows away, you can't spend millions to develop a proprietary product when the one competitor OS is free and will remain free forever and the other competitor OS, Mac OS X has more bells and whistles and is more secure, Windows is between a rock and a hard place, - RoboDonut, on 09/23/2008, -0/+7What printer?
- westyvw, on 09/23/2008, -0/+7Lexmark cant make a printer to save their life much less a driver.
Well we are seeing more linux support. Whats funny (or sad depending on how you look at it) is how many devices are getting smarter by the day to the point where linux is inside them, but they still dont have linux drivers. So many people dont know how much they are using linux as an appliance already.
BTW: Recently, I went to meeting at a large defense contractors shop. We were looking for some devices that ran windows for a specific task. However, when he addressed us and delivered a presentation about the companies products as a whole, he mentioned that he would NEVER put windows out in the battlefield in a mission critical scenario. That was reserved for Linux. And just think, that same linux, is available to YOU and ME, for FREE. - ArthurSucks, on 09/22/2008, -0/+7I forgotten about the LNW page! It's a great thing to show new Linux users.
- inactive, on 09/23/2008, -0/+7The graphic driver that Fedora packages is real ***** *****. Just download the installer from the company's site.
- Tyrghast, on 09/23/2008, -1/+7Guys the thing is, your average human being doesn't give a *****, and as long as that remains the case your store-bought pc's will still have windows packaged with them.
- shadoweva09, on 09/23/2008, -0/+6What's so special about NT4? I wish they still had the media player integration with explorer they had in windows 2000...
- kavaliro, on 09/23/2008, -1/+7"Someone switching to Linux loses a lot of software options and gains nothing."
If you think that about Linux, then you aren't *really using* it. I mean, if all you are using your computer for is surfing the web, then you're not even qualified to come to the debate, much less participate in it, because an internet appliance that hooks to your TV would serve you just as well as a PC. But move beyond that, and Windows won't get you there as awesomely as Linux will. And by "awesomely" I mean as cheaply, as freely, as easily, as powerfully, and with as much style.
Switching to Linux is like switching from your BigWheel to a bicycle. At first you're saying, "You mean it doesn't stand up on it's own? This is SO hard! I'll stay with my BigWheel, it takes me everywhere I want to go." Your brother is hangin' down the street on his bicycle with the cool kids. When you try to catch up with them, of course, they leave you in the dust. Yup, they think BigWheels are pretty lame. You can't pop a wheelie on a BigWheel, can ya?
Then you learn how to ride a bike, and you might be shaky at first, but, Oh! The Freedom! Why didn't you do this sooner? It feels like flying. That bike becomes your best friend for the next 10 years.
Linux people don't pimp Linux because they like to rant. OK, maybe they do ;) But mostly, they want to coax you off the BigWheel and get you to grow up a little and hang with the Big Boys. They want to share a wider, richer, more special world with you.
Get off the BigWheel. It's holding you back! - weizbox, on 09/22/2008, -1/+7502 Bad Gateway :(
- osvik, on 09/22/2008, -2/+8Mirror:
http://www.techradar.com.nyud.net/news/computing/p ... - inactive, on 09/23/2008, -0/+5The fact that you have to do any of that stuff just to use your computer without it becoming infected with a virus is acceptable to you?
No thanks, I'll stick with my mac. - oobuntu, on 09/23/2008, -1/+6the anti virus/spyware argument _should_ motivate people because not even an anti virus will detect all viruses/spyware.
i don't like the feeling that there may be a credit card sniffer hanging around on my machine that i can't detect. i see a few machines in the office with this problem. the trojan downloader is resident on the machine (the AV catches a few things that are downloaded), but the AV does not detect the downloader, or all of the stuff that is downloaded by it - wallclimber, on 09/23/2008, -0/+5@Matt2k, Sorry I missed finding your reply sooner. You asked good questions and they deserve answers.
What type of friends do I have that helping with their Windows computers became so annoying?
They are all just ordinary folks, though the majority are older people, like me. The whole thing started over a decade ago, back then it was all I could do to learn how to maintain my own Windows machine by myself. But as I learned new things I'd teach them to others. Over the following years more and more of my friends and family purchased new computers, and word got around that I was good at helping.
By the winter of 2005 (Christmas weekend to be precise), I walked out the front door to find two computers on my front porch, like little orphans with notes attached asking for them to be fixed. I didn't even know the people who left them, they had heard about me from some mutual acquaintances.
But that's the whole point of this discussion, I think. Word of mouth is an amazingly powerful thing.
However, that was the point where I decided to stop helping Windows users. That was the time when Vista was in the news, many of the people I know had aging computers with Win2k or XP on them. Many were calling me to ask what sort of computer to buy. That's when I let them know that if they purchased a pre-installed Windows machine I would no longer help them with computer problems. My decision was based on the premise that, if I continued to help support Windows, then I was part of the problem.
I honestly thought people would be upset with me for making that decision, but nobody was. They just asked what else they could use, if they didn't use Windows.
Some people that I knew would never care about learning computerish stuff (these were the ones that always seemed to have the same types of problems over and over again), I pointed towards buying Macs. Many of them did, and the only calls I've had from any of those with new Macs have been to tell me how much they love them.
The people that still wanted Windows, I advised that they buy extended support from wherever they buy their machine, and gently told them I would not help with Vista, ever.
For others, I help them find good hardware that I knew would work well with Linux and assembled the computers for them. A few of us even purchased machines pre-loaded with Ubuntu. I had a variety of Live CDs available for people to try, so they could decide what they wanted. It's actually been an amazing experience, maybe I should start my own blog and write about it?
Anyway, this answer is getting much too long (sorry), but to your other question, yes I do, indeed, get phone calls from those I've helped to move away from Windows. The most difficult problem I've dealt with, thus far, had to do with a dial-up modem for a family that lives in a small mountain community. The problem was easily resolved with a quick Google search and a few minutes on the phone with the family.
I have no doubt that, as time goes by, I'll be handed a tougher problem to help solve, but I'm not too worried about it at this point. What's important to me is that the old days when people would drop their skunked Windows computers off at my house to be fixed, are gone, and I don't miss them at all. - 0xception, on 09/23/2008, -1/+6and people complain about the amount of work it takes to get/keep linux running :).
- WayOfTheIronPaw, on 09/23/2008, -0/+4My 70 year old father recently built a new PC, from parts, and installed XP Home and Ubuntu Hardy Heron, dual boot. I guess that shows he is pretty cluey and still has all his marbles. I've given him some help along the way, and he has been searching the Ubuntu forums for his own solutions where he can. I'm used to Fedora 8, myself, but I have to say that I have been impressed with how easy Ubuntu has made a lot of things.
The things that were particularly easy, in comparison to Fedora, even:
* VLC (for videos), Google Earth, and Flash were all installable through the Synaptic package manager, and unlike Fedora, where you have to tell yum about extra repositories, Ubuntu knew where to get those things - even Google Earth, which really impressed me.
* Connecting to a printer shared by Windows on another of his computers using SAMBA was dead easy.
* Sharing a folder from Ubuntu to his Windows network was also dead easy.
* Ubuntu knows how to mount and write to his NTFS-formatted external drive.
* He installed the latest ATI drivers himself, and they actually work well with his 3-D hardware. (The previous version that he installed didn't support his 4850 card.)
* He was able to install MYOB under Wine and it runs fine.
* He says that, since I informed him that OpenOffice exists for Windows, he won't bother with Microsoft office.
* I pointed him to Ext2IFS ( http://www.fs-driver.org/ ) which lets him use his Linux files when he has to do stuff under Windows (currently just software from the Australian Tax Office - although even that is meant to work under Wine, just not officially supported so he is taking no chances).
* The last thing he has to do is buy and install XPlane, which he reckons is better than Microsoft Flight Simulator, and it has a Linux version.
The stuff that was less easy:
* We originally installed Windows with the BIOS' SATA support in legacy IDE mode, and Ubuntu refused to see the disks and install. We ended up doing a reinstall of windows (F6 to load driver) with the BIOS SATA setting changed so that Ubuntu could use NCQ.
* Video playback flickered, and he opted to uninstall Compiz, although the better solution (on the Ubuntu forums) was just a simple settings tweak in VLC.
* He recently managed to stuff his /etc/hosts file fiddling with some network settings GUI.
* An earlier version of the ATI driver didn't support his bleeding edge 4850 card.
* lm_sensors still doesn't support his motherboard, or the ATI card for temperature monitoring - but in my experience, that will come in time.
This experience has shown to me that Linux really is ready for the desktop of home users, and probably quite a few office workers as well, depending on what legacy Windows specific software they *must* run and how well Wine can handle it. Just give it time. - jamesmcm, on 09/23/2008, -0/+4The lack of initial mp3 support is olny the case because of the patents regarding mp3 usage. It's a legal problem not a technical problem in the OS, the only thing is all the problems are like that now - it's as if it's illegal to make a fully Free OS.
- cyrax6, on 09/23/2008, -0/+4Did anyone notice that the url to techradar (502 now) says: how-linux-lost-the-battle-for-your-desktop-469115
while the article submitted to Digg states: How Linux Almost Won The Battle For Your Desktop
What's this supposed to be? Spin? - Zorkon, on 09/23/2008, -3/+7Hey. Uncalled for.
I'm a Linux sysadmin, and in the past I've looked after well over 150 Linux boxen at my company. I've also been employed as an embedded Linux developer. My job was to port Linux to various embedded and special-purpose devices. I know Linux well. I ran it on my desktop for years. I can write a driver module and know what a kernel spinlock is ... so I obviously don't think that my computer is powered by magic gnomes.
That said, my current desktop of choice is OS X. I'm 35 years old and have other things to do besides tinker with config files and codecs in order to get a usable desktop. I like the fact that OS X gives me a robust, stable unix environment, with an attractive GUI on top. True, OS X is not an open operating system ... but at least if Apple does ever go evil, Linux is a viable fallback. In the meantime though, I'm enjoying the free time I have now that I don't have to screw with my OS as much.
Plus (and here's the major attraction for me): OS X applications are *polished*. Unfortunately, most Linux developers never clued into the benefits of attractive, well thought-out GUIs. I dislike the inconsistency in GUIs across multiple Linux apps. - scythe33, on 09/23/2008, -0/+4Ahahahah. That link is amazing.
- Myztry, on 09/23/2008, -0/+4@westyvw - Don't blanket 80's computers.
The Amiga was released in 1985 and in some respects 'modern' computing is yet to catch up with. Despite having hardware specs lower than the phone in your pocket.
Computing wasn't always the dark path that is Microsoft. - frontporsche, on 09/22/2008, -0/+4The link worked just now.
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