What is Digg?29 Comments
- JohnTheLutheran, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21Dugg down as inaccurate. When a package is removed, packages that depend on it *are* removed. What aren't removed (when using apt-get) are "reverse dependencies" - packages on which it depends, but which are no longer needed once all the packages that depend on them are removed.
AFAICR, aptitude does remove these (at least in respect of packages that have been installed by aptitude in the first place), which is one reason why use of aptitude is now generally regarded as preferable to use of apt-get. Even if people don't like the interactive interface for aptitude - personally I think it's fine once you get used to it - really there is no excuse now for using commands like "apt-get install [package]" etc rather than "aptitude install [package]", "aptitude [dist-]upgrade" etc. - eantoranz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Now reverse dependencies are at least "advertised" so that you know they are no longer needed and that they can be removed by calling a single command:
$ sudo apt-get install firefox
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
firefox is already the newest version.
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
libboost-regex1.33.1 libcommoncpp2-1.4-0 libccrtp1-1.4-0
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. - Mejogid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@oghr
Removing totem doesn't remove the Gnome desktop, it removes the meta-package 'ubuntu-desktop'. This is just a list of default packages used for upgrading between distro versions and the initial install. It can be safely removed.
@bart9h
GNOME Desktop doesn't require a video-player. 'ubuntu-desktop' specifically requires Totem, simply because it's a default package. - LudoA, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5How can people digg this? It's completely incorrect, like the first commenter said.
Let's all digg this down as inaccurate, please. Its only purpose is misinformation, FUD and myths. Debian's package tool is the most advanced one out there. I'm not saying portage or yum aren't good, just that apt is the most mature / feature-complete one.
A nice add-on (at least when using unstable) is apt-listbugs, which lists packages' serious bugs before you install them. - ggudggid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4This has to be one of the slowest front page days for Digg I have ever seen.
- Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"i was under the impression that there *was* no housekeeping with linux. that it was the zen of OSes..."
Oh right... why not just install a bunch of applications an leave them there, yeah! It's a linux machine so it will just maintain itself right? I mean Linux is the zen of OSes!!!!!11!111!1
Ignorant. - Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What the article states is correct. If you use Apt-get, install application X, which installs libraries Y and Z, and then you remove application X, Y and Z remain on the system as orphans. If you did the same thing with Aptitude on the other hand, the dependencies would also be removed.
- Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Compiling? with Apt? What parallel universe do you live in?
Maybe you confused Apt with Portage? - hometoast, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2That is due to ubuntu's meta-packages.
- soapboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2When I used Gentoo, portage was indeed one of the handier features. I can't say I have had horrible experiences with apt (yum maybe), but on my mac I still use fink instead of apt.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Indeed.
What happened to the "requires/provides" field in packages? Like:
GNOME Desktop requires video-player.
Totem provides video-player.
MPlayer provides video-player.
Xine provides video-player. - Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm pretty sure it's not just an issue with ubuntu-desktop. After a default install of Debian Etch I tried uninstalling the default icons (which are fugly) and the whole Gnome desktop wanted to be uninstalled, so I uninstalled it... and installed each separate package. One package (can't remember which) required the aforementioned icons...
Now I'm just running Openbox with mainly XFCE4 apps, but unfortunately that doesn't leave me wit ha functional desktop so I had to install some things like the GNOME VFS, which also had other crappy dependencies. This is one thing that really annoys me about Gnome. - stalefries, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1eantoranz, that's a feature that (AFAIK) is only in Ubuntu Edgy. It's a feature of apt-get called autoremove, that keeps track of these kinds of changes.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@H3g3m0n: "emerge -avDtuN world" should fix those problems
@Xilon:
"Maybe they're just disagreeing with your first statement?"
They're disagreeing with my own personal experience? - stalefries, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Like I said above, this is a new feature of apt-get that (AFAIK) is only available in Ubuntu Edgy.
- drag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1""
Now I'm just running Openbox with mainly XFCE4 apps, but unfortunately that doesn't leave me wit ha functional desktop so I had to install some things like the GNOME VFS, which also had other crappy dependencies. This is one thing that really annoys me about Gnome.
"""
Well of course it is going to need the default set of icons to run. It requires at least one set.
Also other themes aren't nessicarially going to have every icon aviable for it. Most of the time they replace the most common stuff and leave it at that.
Just give up and learn to love the bloat. It's there because it makes your life easier.
Just install the themes, and the gtk-engines and all that crap. Then use Epiphany (might as well counteract some of the bloat by using a browser that integrates well into gnome, but it works for firefox also...) head down to art.gnome.org, pick out some nice themes, open up the theme manager and drag and drop the links from the browser into the theme manager window. It'll download and install automaticly.
Then you probably want to explore some other functionality...
Drag-n-drop other stuff around. Notice how your dragging stuff you can switch from desktop to desktop or select different applications by dragging stuff into your windows list. There are a few unexpected things like dragging images from the browser drags the URL, not the image.
Check out nautilus, notice how in a folder with a lot of files you can just start typing and it will highlight matches as you go.. then when it highlights the right one just hit enter and it will execute it. Notice how different things react as you drag different types of files into different things.
Open up a gnome-terminal. Notice what happens when you drag stuff into that.
Notice alt-f2 and then check out the keyboard bindings stuff for different little things you can do.
check out applets.. Stuff like deskbar applet, tomboy. They are pretty bloated for little things, but I have 1.2 gigs of RAM with a Gnome desktop with everything enabled that only uses 191 megs after running for a while.
With Etch there is gtweakui package. I like to make my 'desktop' the same as ~/ directory. There are tweaks to nautilus you can do.. like have it always in browser mode if you like that sort of thing. It realy is just a front end to gconf. Of course check out gconf-editor stuff.
Beagle is pretty cool. It can hammer your system though.. what I do is have directories I don't want indexed because it'll use up to much cpu. If you go into beagle-search you can go into preferences and have it ignore certain directories. I have a ~/tmp a my ~/Downloads directory it ignores because most those files will be deleted pretty soon. I also have a ~/mnt directory for when I mount remote home directories using the FUSE-based sshfs (check out /usr/share/doc/fuse-utils/ and other package documentation directories for how to deal with modifications Debian has made (for instance if you add your user to the fuse group (and log in and log out) you can then mount FUSE stuff as a regular user)). That way I only use Beagle for stuff I want indexed.
Ya and other stuff that isn't so gnome related is nice, such as sshfs. Faster then nfs with networks 100Mb/s and slower. Nice compression and encryption... As well as you can use keypairs so you don't have to use passwords. Another interesting one is Beaglefs which you can use to mount beagle searches as a 'virtual folder'. With Debian and GDM/Gnome it sets it up so that ssh-agent is started by default so you can load up keys and not have to use passwords for everything you want to access remotely.
It's been my experiance that once you learn to actually use Gnome and all the stuff it can do for you then it's pretty hard to stick with XCFE and such. - hometoast, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3I was let down by portage all the time; let down while waiting for compilations to complete. For a very specific and tailored distro I'd use gentoo. For more a general purpose machine, there's not much use (or much to gain) in compiling everything yourself.
I _know_ there are binaries for many of the items under portage(GRC), but not all of them; at least the last time I messed with it last year.
Correct me if I'm wrong. - theOster, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3i was under the impression that there *was* no housekeeping with linux. that it was the zen of OSes...
- cantormath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0that is just a plan stupid comment.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Ah......I forgot. I'm not allowed to comment on anything that's short of praising anything that's related to Ubuntu in any way.
I apologize.
What are the chances that 90% of the people who are digging me down have even USED Portage? - Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Ah......I forgot. I'm not allowed to comment on anything that's short of praising anything that's related to Ubuntu in any way.
I apologize.
What are the chances that 90% of the people who are digging me down have even USED Portage?"
Maybe they're just disagreeing with your first statement? I have never been let down by APT, sure there were dependency problems etc, but that's mainly due to how the applications where packaged.
Also this has VERY little to do with Ubuntu... just because Ubuntu is based on Debian doesn't mean Debian has a fanboy-ish community behind it like Ubuntu. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I had quite a few problems with portage.
Every time i updated my world (after tracking down about 15 packages that where blocking each other), I would often end up with libraries that updated but the programs that used them remaining the same, as a result they wouldn't find the version they wanted and would die. I'm sure theres probably some system in place to try and handle this (revdep-rebuild or something) but it never worked for me.
I finally decided that the instability and compile times (18 hours when i decided to do Openoffice, yes i know theres a -bin for it) where to much and switched to Debain (on server) and Ubuntu on the desktop. They seem just as fast as the compiled for source for your exact architecture with special CFLAGS etc... In fact they seem faster (and i even had 64bit on Gentoo and then went down to 32bit on the others)
With that said I highly recommend Gentoo for people who might want to learn more about the insides of Linux, just not something I would recommend as a stable system, for newbies or if you want something that just works (by default cdroms don't automount ect), but tweaking the hell out of it and setting it up exactly the way you want and fixing problems is a valuable learning experience. - drag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Ya the review just has the terminology different then what Debian uses, so it seems backward.
Otherwise it's pretty decent. - sishgupta, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1if you uninstall with apt-get or synaptic dependencies that are not needed anymore are given "autoremove" status and using apt-get you can uninstall all of them at once.
- rowjimmy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2^^^ what that guy said. aptitude as the command-line interactive interface has always annoyed me, but really, there's no reason not to use it in the aptitude install [whatever] context; works the same as apt-get, only better
- LudoA, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Via apt-get as well? I thought only using aptitude, synaptic and the likes. Are you sure? If so, how would you do it with apt-get?
- foxhoundadmin, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2"no utilities!" "need unified package system!"
"please go away and let me install without compiling FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!" - foxhoundadmin, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2well, you've only been here since the beginning of this year. soooo...
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2I've had some horrible experiences with apt.
Portage on the other hand *very rarely* lets me down.
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