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Hardy Heron reflects Ubuntu Linux ambitions

news.com — Canonical plans to release Hardy Heron, its newest version of Ubuntu Linux on Thursday, and Chief Executive Mark Shuttleworth isn't being shy and retiring about it. "This is our most significant release ever," he said in an interview. Ordinarily I avoid publishing such marketing superlatives, but Shuttleworth is right. Hardy Heron, also called...

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brantw 25 days ago, made popular 25 days ago

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SDL486, on 04/22/2008, -7/+63I'm really interested to see what ubuntu is like on a mobile phone. This article is getting me really excited about the future of ubuntu, I can really see it penetrating the market in 5 years. I've been using Gutsy for a little over 6 months and I'm just as used to it as I was with M$ Windows XP.
- weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -3/+9The apps are really what's going to make a mobile platform shine.. the OS sure means a lot too.. but a lot of the things that Ubuntu is famous for will be almost non-existent in mobile devices (Wubi, bulletproof X, hardware detection, etc).
  
  You seem to be pretty gun-ho for Ubuntu, but have only used it for 6 months.... have you tried any other distros out?
  - CrackyJSquirrel, on 04/22/2008, -0/+26I have tried a couple myself.. And am finding Ubuntu to be the best work out of the box distro for my laptop.. I am slowly becoming an Ubuntu fanboy, god save us all..
    - weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -1/+6heh... and it will just keep getting better!
      I personally use Gentoo, but have about the same versions as xorg,gnome,hal, etc as the new version of Ubuntu.. and I must say even on a Gentoo box it's getting easier all the time with so much auto configuration from Xorg/Hal... gotta love it :)
    - khaavren, on 04/22/2008, -1/+1I used to run gentoo when it first came out, and loved it. Since having gutsy for approx 6 months as does weizbox, I have to say that on my alienware laptop, its 1000x better in most areas than any other distro, specifically compatibility with hardware, although there's no support for my dual 7900 gs SLI setup as far as i know.
      - bruenig, on 04/23/2008, -0/+5Are you serious? I mean of all things, you are going to tell me that it is better in ... wait for it ... hardware compatibility? When you said you ran gentoo when it first came out, was that a fib or a bold faced lie? Hardware support is a kernel function, and afaik linux is linux is linux. If you want to talk about all of the python front ends and stuff they have developed, then at least you have a case. Even then, I would disagree that those things are positive, but at least it is something they have which other distros do not. Hardware support is not unique.
      - int19h, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1bruenig:
        my take on it: hardware support = kernel + kernel modules + friendly scripts + hardware detection
  - GMorgan, on 04/22/2008, -2/+3Linux is already big on the mobile platform. What he is talking about is replacing a host of ad hoc systems with something more professionally built.
  - spydon, on 04/23/2008, -1/+1Why wouldnt it have bulletproof X and hardware detection? :S
- HoratioHellpop, on 04/22/2008, -17/+6If HH is anything like FF, then you'll lose your wireless connection as soon as you run an update.
  - idslite, on 04/22/2008, -8/+4You must have faulty hardware. Every Ubuntu distribution I've tried worked (and works) 100%.
    - weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -0/+7'You must have faulty hardware.'
      If what your saying is true.. than it would appear the update would have damaged his hardware... which I know isn't the case. Some wifi adapters still are having some issues... luckily the new 2.6.25 kernels are giving them some more support.. If he had them working previously.. he should be able to now, it just might take some work.
    - gudnbluts, on 04/22/2008, -0/+4Not "faulty", The words you're looking for are "badly supported". I have plenty of it myself.
      - idslite, on 04/22/2008, -1/+2I guess I'm just lucky then, heh.
  - bigsteve, on 04/22/2008, -4/+14Well thankfully, you of course reported your instance of failure (lspci and dmesg output, hardware model numbers, etc) to the developers via the appropriate channel. Luckily, the devs are very helpful with their instructions on how to communicate such data to them.
    
    Because otherwise you'd just be another ***** wanting something for nothing.
    
    Good thing you did that.
    - weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -7/+5Isn't wanting something for nothing the Ubuntu moto?
      
      Shouldn't it... 'Just Work'?
    - bigsteve, on 04/22/2008, -7/+5@weizbox: No and no. Grow up.
      - weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -3/+5hit the reply button next time... it's meant for replying ;)
        
        From http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/deskto ...
        "Ubuntu 'Just Works'
        
        We've done all the hard work for you. Once Ubuntu is installed, all the basics are in place so that your system will be immediately usable."
        
        And yet for some reason... people would be expecting 'all the basics are in place so that your system will be immediately usable'. When they mean 'usable', do they mean reporting 'your instance of failure (lspci and dmesg output, hardware model numbers, etc) to the developers via the appropriate channel.'? I think not.
        
        I love Linux, but I'm not going to trick people into using it by making it seem like they will never need to hit the command line or go through some HowTos to get hardware to work properly( or in some cases, working at all).
        
        So, by you saying 'no' to not wanting to do work to get things working, as well as 'no' to the concept that everything should 'Just Work', you seem like your in a disagreement with what Ubuntu's message/advertisement says. I know people should work to get their hardware working, and it's not unreasonable to think so... what's unreasonable is Ubuntu and some Ubuntu user's message that everything should just work out of the box with no strings attached. Sometimes this is the case, and you don't need to do anything.. but there is also a ton of other cases where you need to do some work.
        
        If it doesn't always 'Just Work' and 'all the basics are in place so that your system will be immediately usable', than they shouldn't be promoting it as such.... that's all :)
      - rockus, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1Its work for a majority of the users. There will always be exceptions. Its like saying you shouldn't label peanut butter as delicious just because some people are allergic to it.
    - HoratioHellpop, on 04/22/2008, -6/+4//Good thing you did that.// Actually, I didn't, because I've *NEVER* had that happen in Windows XP ... so I wasn't quite sure what to do. Plus, with my connection to the internet *gone* it was kinda hard to email anybody anything.
      
      *****.
      - bigsteve, on 04/22/2008, -3/+5Is microsoft windows a free product? No. Do independant developers make most of the drivers via reverse engineering the mfgr-made production drivers? No.
        
        If youre going to be using a community supported product, and you dont -as the community- support it in your own way and then whine when your specific setup doesnt work, then YOU are the *****.
      - HoratioHellpop, on 04/23/2008, -2/+2Which just goes to show ... once again ... you get what you pay for. With Ubuntu, it seems to be (dip)*****.
      - node3, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1If the price of using Ubuntu (or Linux in general) is that you have to help in the development process, most people are better off just paying for Windows or OS X. At least with those, once you pay you're done with your obligation.
        
        But that assumes your premise, which I don't agree with. There's absolutely *nothing* wrong with posting about how Ubuntu didn't work without emailing the devs (exactly *who* do you email, anyway?) first (or ever).
        
        And calling users *****? WTF? Great way to promote Linux...
- SSUK, on 04/22/2008, -8/+21All the cool kids say M$!
  - Tenoq, on 04/23/2008, -2/+5I must have missed the memo. Wait, does that mean I'm not cool?
    :'(
- CrazyZ, on 04/22/2008, -6/+7I've read your same exact comment "penetrating the market in 5 years" for the last 15 years. You forever lost me at M$ though....
  - Labourer, on 04/23/2008, -0/+43rd time lucky??
- Amiga500, on 04/23/2008, -7/+2I see me penetrating your sister in only 2 months.
  - Planets, on 04/23/2008, -1/+2Strange, how did you type while dreaming?
  - SDL486, on 04/23/2008, -1/+4Funny, it only took me 15 minutes and a bottle of cheap wine to penetrate your mother
falloutsyndrome, on 04/22/2008, -2/+90I've been Windows free for about 4 years now. I honestly feel free on the Linux platform. I started with Fedora Core, but when Ubuntu came out I gave it a shot. Right now I'm on 8.04 and I really must say, watching Ubuntu grow up has been almost like watching a child grow into a respectable adult. 8.04 is a solid piece of software and I'd recommend it to anyone. Ubuntu has my full support even in their endeavors as a mobile software solution.
/end fatherly rant.
- JamesMorris, on 04/22/2008, -32/+6Wireless? Kthx.
  - cawpin, on 04/22/2008, -6/+6Yeah, works fine and has for 3 releases.
    - weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -0/+4It 'works fine' for you using your current WiFi adapter and chipset. Hopefully we all have known that WiFi has been working for years now as well, not just the last 3 releases of Ubuntu.
      
      Obviously this guy did not have your hardware :)
  - Jexie, on 04/22/2008, -6/+11Works perfectly fine on my laptop, maybe the user is the problem.
    - HoratioHellpop, on 04/22/2008, -12/+1//maybe the user is the problem.// Always is, when there's a problem with Linux, right? Tard.
    - weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -3/+4'maybe the user is the problem.'
      now, that doesn't sound very friendly. I thought the Ubuntu community was strong... or do you guys just don't like the people who's hardware doesn't work out of the box?
      - Jexie, on 04/22/2008, -2/+3Ubuntu is far from perfect, but a post like 'wireless kthx' sounds more like 'bitching right out of the box' to me. Though I am not a member of an Ubuntu community for using it anymore than I am a member of the Windows community for having that on another PC.
      - weizbox, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1@Jexie
        I would agree with you that it sounds like bitching.. but that's no reason to suggest there is a user error related to his hardware problem. I know his message isn't too descriptive, but it suggests that his WiFi did not in fact work out of the box... which is an issue for a lot of people.
        
        Since Ubuntu says everything WILL work out of the box ("We've done all the hard work for you. Once Ubuntu is installed, all the basics are in place so that your system will be immediately usable"), I would understand why people would be a lil PO'd. It's like when people upgraded to Vista because M$ said it was incredible, only to find out it sucked. I'm not saying Ubuntu sucks, but I'm saying what they advertise isn't what you get. It's a good thing they're in the support business ;)
      - Jexie, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1You are 100% right about Ubuntu as far as I'm concerned, I think its fairly good but I'm not in love with it. Had whatshisname up there said something half as rational as this he would have received a rational response. Posting 'wireless kthx' is enough to assume he doesn't have two brain cells to rub together and he's gonna get treated as such especially on a message board.
  - weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -5/+7I have no idea why people are digging you down....
    You have problems with your hardware.. and yet people just want to try to ignore it instead of helping you... whats with that? It's like if there is a problem with Ubuntu, people try to cover it up instead of trying to confront it.... and yet if someone says they have theirs is working fine.. they get dugg up, like abhiroop. We all know not everyone's hardware works 100% of the time out of the box...
    
    What adapter do you have? What version of Ubuntu are you using?
    - cronot, on 04/22/2008, -1/+17"You have problems with your hardware.. and yet people just want to try to ignore it instead of helping you... whats with that?"
      
      Sorry, he isn't looking for help, otherwise, he'd have worded his comment differently. In fact, if he was really willing to put on any effort to make it work, he probably would have it already working. He's just bashing, plain and simple.
      
      I agree that there are Ubuntu fanboys that may wrongly dismiss some legitimate calls for help, but his comment is as useless as the fanboys attitude.
      - weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -6/+5your right, it was a pretty useless comment as it was very generic.. but I can understand the possible frustration he would have.. so I'm giving him a chance to get some help :)
    - RetepNamenots, on 04/22/2008, -3/+4Exactly, he's probably using either an old kernel, and old version of Ubuntu, or is trying to install some sort of rare wireless device. If you walked into a shop today and came out with a new PC, the chances are pretty high that it would work with Ubuntu straight away, without any complicated setting up. As falloutsyndrome said, Ubuntu's grown from something with truly awful wireless support into something which... 'Just works' ;)
      - weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -0/+4No doubt the WiFi support has been improved in the kernel over the years (Ubuntu really didn't have anything to do with it on the driver end), but there are still a lot of new cards/adapters that will not 'Just work'.
        
        Dlink AG530 is one example since it uses the Atheros chipset. Luckily, the newly released kernel 2.6.25 has the ath5k driver for Atheros chipsets, which this model uses.. so it may work now... but Ubuntu certainly isn't using this kernel for the time being. This isn't exactly a 'rare' wireless device either.. it's friggin Dlink... and those chipsets are in a ton of WiFi devices.
        
        Check the Ubuntu 'Wireless Cards Supported' page. About 60% or so of the USB adapters there show up as working. It's def better than it used to be... but you still have a damn good chance of picking up an adapter that doesn't work if when you got the adapter you weren't concerning yourself with 'does this work with Linux?'
        https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Wireles ...
      - int19h, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1While 100% of all hardware doesn't work on Ubuntu, of course (it could be a usb-toaster, anything), it's pretty amazing that so much hardware works out of the box in Ubuntu. Remember that the drivers are usually not supplied by the hardware manufacturers, as with Windows. Also remember that Mac OS X only needs to support the hardware Apple chooses to put in the machines they sell. Ubuntu is amazingly good at hardware support and if computers were tested and sold with Ubuntu preloaded, people would see that.
    - init100, on 04/22/2008, -0/+2His post surely looked like he was implying that Ubuntu (or Linux) doesn't have wireless support at all, which we all know is completely wrong. That some wireless chipsets doesn't work or work badly is a completely different matter, one that we are well aware of.
  - motang, on 04/22/2008, -0/+5Mine worked just fine all I had to do was click on the Restricted Driver Manager, check mark the wireless box, and click next and boom my Boardcom wireless card was up and working like charm, no headache.
  - Kamujin, on 04/22/2008, -1/+2Wireless? Right chipset = No problem. Wrong chipset = Pain in the arse.
    I make sure I buy compatible hardware, but isn't that just good advice in any case?
  - newwatch51, on 04/22/2008, -1/+2Wireless does not work for me in Ubuntu and never has. I tried the restricted driver manager, but that didn't work either. Mepis has the right idea by using NDISWrapper, because it's the only way to get some broadcom chips working
    - JustAboutReal, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1you can use NDISWrapper in ubuntu too...
      
      sudo apt-get install ndiswrapper
      
      course, you could install in in synaptic too
  - CGA1, on 04/22/2008, -1/+1You can add Ralink chipsets to that list as well.
  - jay019, on 04/23/2008, -0/+0My wireless worked out of the box with Ubuntu. Unlike windows which required magical incantations.
    
    But then again, I dont buy ***** hardware.
- abhiroop, on 04/22/2008, -2/+5mine works without any tweaking, kwlcm
- weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -1/+8Just keep in mind where a great deal of those changes came from ;)
  Xorg 7.3 has made some great improvements(RandR 1.2,Input Hotplug). Gnome with GVFS, Window Composting, Google Calendar support in Evolution, etc.
  
  What Ubuntu-specific changes did you like most about the new version? I have yet to give it a try :)
  - InferiorWang, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3You hit it on the nose. I was waiting for a live cd with the 2.6.24 kernel because older kernels were making my brand new laptop hang during boot. Hardy was the first I saw out, so I downloaded it and crossed my fingers. Success! I hadn't consistently used linux in 2 or 3 years because I got tired of maintaining it and waiting drivers that were being developed slowly. Hardy has everything working on my desktop (even that damn acx100 wireless card works out of the box..monitor, injection, etc!) and my new laptop only has a couple minor issues to work out, but I expect that out of laptops, especially new ones. So far, I've been very pleased with this version of Ubuntu. I even got around to burning all my files to DVD and reformatting my desktop like I had been meaning to do so I could have a fresh XP install, but once the XP setup finished I installed Ubuntu and haven't even been back in windows to load my drivers and set my settings. When the semester is over, I'm going to start playing around with other distros again.
  - rpgmaker, on 04/23/2008, -1/+2What an idiot, a distro (it doesn't matter which) is a whole package of programs so of course the changes we see in Ubuntu are in reality changes made on other software that come in the package. By your 'implicit' logic every Linux distro is the same while they aren't. If you haven't use Ubuntu give it a shot, you might like it ;)
    - weizbox, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1'What an idiot, a distro (it doesn't matter which) is a whole package of programs so of course the changes we see in Ubuntu are in reality changes made on other software that come in the package.'
      So I'm an idiot for mentioning something that you agree is true, and giving credit to some projects that have helped Ubuntu's popularity? You and me might know what a distro consists of.. but it seems like a lot of people don't tend to put credit where credit is due. A lot of newcomers to Linux may not quite understand what a distro is made of yet... as shown in a lot of the comments I've seen on digg lately. No harm in making sure Xorg and other projects get some credit :)
      
      I'm well aware every distro isn't the same.. but at least for the desktop distros, the end result is often very similar. I know the package managers are different, as well as a few other gui/config tools.. but the users normal desktop usage will be/can be almost identical (because they are in fact using almost the exact same packages).
      
      And I have tried Ubuntu (and pretty much any other major distro)... and I think I'll stick with my Gentoo :)
- over900000, on 04/22/2008, -11/+3How exactly do you feel free? I can do everything I want on Windows. I have a linux box and I tried to find a software that would for example convert a .flv file from youtube to a .swf file and I couldn't find any for Linux. There are plenty for Windows.
  - bigsteve, on 04/22/2008, -1/+10ffmpeg. Took 8 seconds on google.
    - joebaloney, on 04/22/2008, -1/+4Though a powerful tool, it'll take a lot more than 8 seconds to figure out how to use it to get what you want.
      - bigsteve, on 04/22/2008, -0/+5Point is, it exists, took a very short time to get a lead, and when you've finished learning how to use it, you'll be a lot better off. I could have also pointed him to one of the many GUI front-ends available for the app, or he could have maybe googled that, too.
      - joebaloney, on 04/22/2008, -2/+3I use nothing but ubuntu and have been for about 3 years, but converting between video file formats is a major PITA. Though to be fair, I don't think its much better on Windows. Mac maybe?
      - over900000, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1@joebaloney: There are thousands of tools on Windows for muxing, demuxing and video format conversions.
      - joebaloney, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1I think that's part of the problem.
      - bigsteve, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1ffmpeg is available for Windows, Linux, MacOSX and the FreeBSD clones...
  - Biznarie, on 04/22/2008, -1/+6He feels free because he is free, theres never any annoying popups asking for cd keys, activations, or genuine validations, pratically no viruses, or spyware, hes free from all the *****.
  - newwatch51, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3wtf you have no idea what you're talking about. Freedom is being able to install an OS on as many computers as you like. Freedom is downloading an OS legally from the internet. Freedom is doing whatever you want with your OS without any restrictions. Can you say that about Windows? Uh no, you can't.
  - gavintlgold, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Video conversion is annoying, but you can get the "MediaCoder" application for windows and run it on Linux. It installs pretty easily with Wine and works fine.
- Megatog615, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3Same here, buddy. Been using Ubuntu for about 4 years now and every time I have to use a Windows machine it takes me ten times as long to get my work done.
  - gavintlgold, on 04/23/2008, -2/+2[Insert generic "not your buddy, guy" comment here]
  - over900000, on 04/23/2008, -5/+2Then you're clearly doing something wrong. When I use linux, I could have finished my work in Windows the time it takes me to scour the net for a solution for a problem in linux.
    - jay019, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1If you have so many problems keeping your Linux box running, then obviously its not for you.
GreatSunJester, on 04/22/2008, -7/+11This weekend I am buying a second SATA hard drive and removing my Vista drive (paranoid? you bet! I screwed up a MBR once on an XP dual boot, no way I am trusting VISTA to not go wrong!) and doing a full install on my home machine. If I can get WoW up and running decently I should not need to put the Vista drive back in for a while. Going to be fun working with it!
- stix213, on 04/22/2008, -3/+10"fdisk /mbr" from an XP boot disk would have fixed your last problem
  - cawpin, on 04/22/2008, -5/+5No, it's "fixmbr" and "fixboot". Those two run together will fix any boot problems caused by trying to install another OS as long as you didn't resize or overwrite the Windows partition.
    - gn0stik, on 04/22/2008, -0/+9He was correct as well. In fact his comment shows hes been doing this for a considerably longer time than you have.
    - weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -1/+4yea.. you guys were both right. it's just two different methods.. no biggy
    - Talung, on 04/23/2008, -5/+0Actually, that does not work if you have grub installed. My grub screwed up and with winXP there was no way to fix the MBR. Reinstalled from linux and everything was fine again.
      
      PS. have WinXP because annoyingly cannot get EQ2 to run properly on linux.
      - Tenoq, on 04/23/2008, -0/+4No, it DOES work if you have GRUB installed. In fact that's EXACTLY what you have to do to remove GRUB and replace it with the XP bootloader.
      - jay019, on 04/23/2008, -2/+0unless of course you have a 320gb disk and xp with no sp2. lol
    - DestroyFascism, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Don't forget to put the cd in first
      Select R
      when prompted select the system (1, 2, 3, etc)
      log in with the password
      and then type > fixmbr
      
      If using SATA unplug the other drives, Install then plug in the others again, select the drive in BIOS. Then fix the chainloader. Can't go wrong.
    - stix213, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1yeah "fixmbr" and "fixboot" work fine from an XP install CD's recovery console, "fdisk /MBR" is the old school way, but I got into this when I still had to set IRQ's on 8-bit sound cards.
- CrazyZ, on 04/22/2008, -11/+2So you are spending what $150.00 for a separate drive to run an OS that will give you half the functionality of the OS you already have and you play games?
  
  Your money I guess.
  - MacParrot, on 04/22/2008, -2/+5So you are spending what $50.00 per game to run on your OS that will not give you any knowledge beyond finding cheat codes and is generally a waste of time?
    Your money I guess.
  - sarixe, on 04/22/2008, -1/+2functionality? i think you meant crap.
- madduffy, on 04/22/2008, -1/+4Have you tried the windows installer? Wubi has come a long ways and is included in the distribution. It should work in XP and Vista.
  Link : http://www.wubi-installer.org
- Kamujin, on 04/22/2008, -1/+4WoW works fine under wine. Just google it for the tips to tweak it.
  For mine, I just modify the config to use OpenGL.
- GreatSunJester, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3Yes -- actuall fixmbr in the recovery console, or fdisk /mbr from a bootdisk would have worked, and eventually did -- My problem ended up my boot disk was from before SP2 was installed and for some reason none of the commands would work. Got it back up eventually once I (ahem) acquired a XPSP2 bootable CD.
  
  I have used WUBI, and if I just wanted to try LINUX with the associated performance hit for NTFS I would do it. WUBI is a great way to play with Ubuntiu!
  
  My money, yuppers! If Ubuntu does not work enough for me to replace Vista, I get a second hard drive for data storage! Besides, an OEM SATA drive off NewEgg is under $100. Mainly I just want to try it out again. I do find myself wishing I had an ATI video card though... seems like they are supporting Linux better than nVidia.
  - canadalolz, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1ATI, up until a month or so ago sucked donkey balls in linux.
- tcpip4lyfe, on 04/22/2008, -0/+5Wine runs WOW better then most games. Even better the windows in my experience. It's one of the few games that doesn't require 12 hours of troubleshooting to install.
  - Kamujin, on 04/23/2008, -0/+4Honestly, WoW runs a lot faster on my Vista partition then on my Linux partition. I am not knocking wine, but I don't want to distort the facts either.
    
    In both cases, the framerates are well within acceptable ranges.
    - tcpip4lyfe, on 04/23/2008, -0/+3I never tried it in Vista. I'm just speaking form Xp experience.
- Amiga500, on 04/23/2008, -1/+2At least WOW will keep your from procreating. Every cloud has a sliver lining I suppose.
zerhynn, on 04/22/2008, -27/+12I really wish they'd stop with the animal names.
- CrackyJSquirrel, on 04/22/2008, -2/+3LOL.. The foofy names is what kept me at bay with ubuntu.. But then I got past my little superficial stigma and started using it.. But yeah, lets toughen up the names a little..
  - UKsHaDoW, on 04/22/2008, -0/+12the animal names are unoffical dev names. The real name is Ubuntu 8.04
    - gn0stik, on 04/22/2008, -3/+1for the beta, 8.24 for the upcoming final. 2 days baby.
    - directrix13, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3@gn0stik:
      I think you misread something. 8.04 RC1 is out now. 8.04 will be released in two days.
      - gn0stik, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3release date is part of the version number, right, this is april. In fact my version is impossible, isn't it.
      - mazza558, on 04/22/2008, -0/+2Yes.
  - cyberwiz01, on 04/22/2008, -0/+6Superficial Stigma is an upcoming Ubuntu release.
- 000dom000, on 04/22/2008, -0/+5they are just codenames, nothing to be taken seriously or an official title.
- stix213, on 04/22/2008, -2/+14Ahhh, I'm still waiting for "Lacerating Liger" though....
- PleaseJustDie, on 04/22/2008, -0/+9I like it, its quick and easy to remember and makes finding support for your specific version easier since I can type "feisty fawn nvidia driver" and get a walkthrough for specifically ubuntu feisty fawn, while if I put "ubuntu 6 nvidia driver" I will also see results in there for gutsy gibbon, hardy harpy, earlier versions, etc. It may sound kinda kooky, but it really does make some things easier to deal with.
  - aidave, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3Good point.
- OneLess, on 04/22/2008, -0/+9Apple names their OS iterations after cats and Microsoft's current Windows version is named after a scenic view. Not a whole lot of choice as far as names go out in the market. At least the latest version of Ubuntu has the word "hardy" in it.
  - RetepNamenots, on 04/22/2008, -1/+2Because '95', '98', '2000' and 'XP' are soo much more original and creative!
    
    But seriously, they should have called it:
    
    Ubuntu: Hungry Hippos
  - gudnbluts, on 04/22/2008, -1/+1But it's not embarrassing talking about those in a professional context, like the ubuntu names. They sound like Nintendo characters. "original and creative" isn't the point. "Fartango Ballswoggler" is original. It's still stupid, and I wouldn't have it as a name for an operating system. Okay, maybe I would.
    
    edit:- wrong reply button - I was replying to RetepNamenots.
- strupatn, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1I was disappointed when they didn't go with "Hungry Hippo" but I am impressed with the Beta. I am avidly waiting for the final release.
Picer, on 04/22/2008, -5/+29Linux would wipe the floor with all OS's, but only if developers of popular programs created versions for Linux, or made versions that work with WINE, instead of relying on some ***** off WINE user cobbling up a solution. The GUI is steadily getting better too, with Linux.
- Jibberwalk, on 04/22/2008, -4/+5It's not worth the time or resources to develop for GNU/Linux right now. If you look at generous figures, GNU/Linux barely cracks 1.5% of total user share.
  
  I understand it's a cycle... no one develops, people don't switch, so no one develops. But if you look at it from an economical perspective, it just doesn't make financial sense for these companies to program for GNU/Linux. You've got to remember that good will doesn't pay bills.
  - DemonWasp, on 04/22/2008, -1/+2What's I'm not understanding is why there aren't more apps coded in cross-platform languages (such as Java). Java may not be as fast as a compiled language, and so may not be suitable for gaming, but you could certainly run a fair few applications. Hell, OO.org is Java, isn't it?
    
    Wouldn't this solve much of the problem with "coding for GNU/Linux" vs "coding for Windows" vs "coding for OSX"? What am I missing?
    - iindigo, on 04/22/2008, -0/+4Because Java is slow and ugly and doesn't feel "native" on any platform it runs on, --especially-- in the case of Mac OS X, whose applications need to match certain design conventions and standards to fit into the OS.
      - TunaFisu, on 04/22/2008, -1/+1Java isn't really that slow anymore. 1.6 can get to some 1.3 times the processor time of c++ on many common loads, and some memory intensive tasks it can be even faster. You think java is slow because the average java developer is total crap and large java projects have a tendency to degenerate into steaming piles of ***** due to the aforementioned crappiness of developers. The way some of the stuff I've seen was programmed, it would have been slow on assembly.
      - DemonWasp, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1I can't speak to OSX, but Eclipse is very, very well done GUI-wise. Seems right at home in both linux and windows, to my eye.
        
        Or maybe my eyes are just ***** up, who knows?
      - LavosPhoenix, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1TunaFisu: Java is still slow on the first iteration. It also uses Garbage Collection, which is a lazy programmer's wet dream and an abortion at best. Sorry, I'd rather not have my computer waste tons of cycles decoding Java Bytecode, which it can simply be compiled into machine code and directly executed, avoiding the bloat of modern interpreted software *****.
      - DemonWasp, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1Garbage collection has the distinct advantage that it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to leak RAM. As we know from FF2.0.0.1-2.0.0.9 or so, that can be a pretty huge problem.
        
        It also makes a few things really easy, even some things that are difficult in C++ (I'm thinking here of dynamically including new things into the program - yes, I know that .dlls exist, but it's easier in Java; also on the list is being able to reflect, which is surprisingly useful.
        
        I won't claim that Java's faster, because generally it isn't, but it's cheaper to code, and easier to maintain - I would expect it to bring software prices down.
    - Darkhacker, on 04/22/2008, -1/+3No, OpenOffice isn't Java. It's C++.
      - DemonWasp, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2Then why does it require the JVM?
      - Darkhacker, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2It doesn't. You can disable Java and run OpenOffice just fine. In fact, it usually runs faster. The only reason there are Java settings in OpenOffice is because some extensions use Java and I know that Base uses Java for some things. The core application and 95% of the functions, are C++. You can get along just fine without Java unless you use Base or some of those extensions, such as some export filters, Report AutoPilot, document wizards, and a few other extensions written in Java. Java certainly isn't required for the application to run and be usable though.
    - spiffytech, on 04/22/2008, -2/+2Java, with recent compiler versions, is on par with C for performance. As for attractiveness, that can be worked out if a developer wants to address that. Vuze/Azureus is written in java and doesn't have the "java" ugly look and feel.
      
      The real issue is that 100% cross-platform programming languages like Java/C#/Mono are the exception to the rule. Most programming languages, the ones that everyone's familiar with and likes to use, don't port across platforms that easily and there's little motivation to choose a cross-platform language if you can already develop Windows/Mac versions in your language of choice.
      - LavosPhoenix, on 04/23/2008, -1/+1.NET is a horrible abortion. It's going to encourage a whole new wave of ***** software that uses up more CPU cycles than ever to accomplish a task that could have simply be written in a superior language like C++, complied to machine code, and executed many times faster.
  - int19h, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1You're excluding development of web-applications that will run on Linux-servers, right? Where did you get those numbers?
- arthurdent3, on 04/22/2008, -0/+14ITs the chicken and egg argument for apps on linux. Users want more apps before they consider using it and app developers say that they need more linux users before they will port an app.
  What ever happened to the build it and they will come. Application vendors need to start testing the waters a little more and maybe they will see that people will be there to purchase their products.
  - init100, on 04/22/2008, -0/+2Proprietary application developers should keep in mind that *if* enough free applications are created and users switch because of them, their proprietary application might not be as desirable any longer.
- destraht, on 04/22/2008, -1/+6I don't think that it is quite ready yet. They still need to get hibernation and suspend working flawlessly. They are currently working on X mode setting code that will help accomplish this. KDE 4 is still not ready to be put on professional workstations with years of support. That will come during the next year. There is still that issue of the last few wireless manufacturers getting on board.
  I personally don't think that things could go much faster. The market has seriously upped Linux usage and there are now a few problems that need to be flushed out because of it. Linux has consistently been able to tackle the #1 and #2 problem areas, given a few years to do it. If everyone had jumped in on it we would be cursing because we would be stuck with horribly bad APIs or ABIs or whatever.
  - counterplex, on 04/22/2008, -0/+4I agree with you about the hibernation/suspend bit since I find that's the most problematic for me on my laptop. However, as somenoe who used Linux on the desktop 4 years ago and then recently just now, I find there's been immense progress. Granted I was using gentoo back then and am using ubuntu nowadays so it might be due to the desktop focus of ubuntu but I haven't had to struggle to get my wireless card working which was the main sticknig point for me in gentoo.
    
    Things work great within ubuntu and are even intuitive in an Apple sort of way. As an example, when I type a command on the commandline that doesn't exist like emacs, ubuntu actually tells me that the emacs command comes with the emacs package and that I can type "sudo apt-get install emacs" to install it. That's immensely useful :) In another instance, I was attempting to play some videos using the video player and it realized the codec wasn't supported by the video player and, in a seamless integration with the package manager, prompted me to download the codecs. 15 seconds later I was playing the video just fine. Whereas in the past I would've insisted on vlc as a video player due to all the built-in codecs I now rely on the built-in video player because it's that good.
    
    I could go on and on but the gist is that while Linux might have a ways to go, it's already travelled a long distance and we're better off for it.
  - gudnbluts, on 04/22/2008, -0/+0They also need to get decent ATI card drivers. That and the suspend are the major things keeping my laptop on XP.
    - int19h, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1I don't have an ATI-card, but I thought the ATI driver issue was solved recently. Sure suspend does not work?
- khaavren, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3I dont use suspend nor hibernate enough to possibly warrant a choice of os based solely upon how well either of them work, but, thats just me.....
tehjarvis, on 04/22/2008, -5/+24What I don't get, is since it's a LTS release, they're including the Firefox beta as default. I thought the point of LTS was to be as stable as possible?
- powatom, on 04/22/2008, -0/+9Not really, it just means they support it with upgrades for longer - meaning it's better for production machines in the long run. It's also more likely that any issues which arise will get fixed, rather than people simply waiting for the next release.
  - eklem, on 04/23/2008, -1/+1But there's a lot of addons that don't work with FF3, so it's not that usefull yet.
    - powatom, on 04/23/2008, -1/+1Firefox is a web browser - it only realy has one use, and Firefox 3 does it very well right now.
    - int19h, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1It didn't take long for 80% of the extensions I use to become supported on Firefox 3 beta 5, so I wouldn't worry too much. Besides, you can override the version-check if you really, really need to.
- balazsbela, on 04/22/2008, -3/+36Firefox 3 is beta, but it's a lot better than Firefox 2 when you look at memory usage or (in my case) stability.
  - cyberwiz01, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1Still no del.icio.us integration though. They really need to update that extension!
    - intangible, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1They did, and life is good again. Version 2.0.39
  - weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -3/+4you had stability problems with Firefox2 under Linux?
    - Acglaphotis, on 04/22/2008, -0/+9When viewing flash content, Firefox2 gets slow and unresponsive :
      - mazza558, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1It still does for some people (e.g ATi/Nvidia drivers)
      - weizbox, on 04/23/2008, -1/+1what distro were you using? I haven't had any issues with Flash and Firefox, and I've been running 64bit Gentoo for 4 years now. I have also had an nVidia card the whole time.. but I have friends with ATIs and haven't had any issues as well.
        
        I know it CAN work fine without any issues... I'm just not sure if your distro set it up well for you. Sounds like a pretty bad problem tho :/
    - stoanhart, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Closing flash videos also caused the browser to freeze about 1/10 times.
  - balazsbela, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1It often crashed on me.Now FF 3 is more stable and responsive.Can't wait for the release :)
  - Biznarie, on 04/22/2008, -1/+0I heard there going to release the Firefox 3 final version when its done, so thats not too bad.
  - tnoy, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1FFb3 crashed on me a dozen times or so before I removed it and installed FF2 again.
- cawpin, on 04/22/2008, -3/+12The new beta releases of Firefox are as stable, if not more so, than the the last "stable" ones.
  - nighthwk1, on 04/22/2008, -6/+2You must not be using FF3 on OS X... it crashes on me every few minutes. FF2 *never* crashed on me.
    - Rauby, on 04/22/2008, -0/+5Dude, I use FF3 all the time on OS X and it is SOOOO much stable in compare with FF2.
    - latova, on 04/22/2008, -0/+6No. Considering that we're talking about ubuntu here, we're not using FF3 on OSX.
      
      Its very stable for Hardy Heron, if you have problems under a completely unrelated OS then I suggest downloading the latest beta, contacting the developers, or waiting for the final release.
    - jay019, on 04/23/2008, -1/+0Well, left clicking in FF3 in windows caused crashes for me. But no computers here run windows now so no biggie.
- rubbsdecvik, on 04/22/2008, -1/+3LTS Just means that they will support it for the long term. It means that Canonical will still offer support for it and the release will still get security updates for the length of the LTS term. Stability is just a goal.
  - tehjarvis, on 04/22/2008, -1/+2Then what about the excuses that "There probably won't be a new theme in 8.04 because they're just trying to make it as stable as possible since it's LTS blah blah blah" which is it?
    - powatom, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1A desktop system without a stable desktop kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it? All the other apps have alternatives. Obviously they want a 'stable' release, but if it's not rock solid from the get go, it doesn't matter. They need the base system working well from the start, though.
- directrix13, on 04/22/2008, -0/+12Well, Firefox 3 beta 5 is very stable. And Firefox 3 final will be out in June. I seriously doubt there will be too many stability issues, as most progs that use the Gecko engine probably either embed the Gecko engine itself or use XULrunner now.
  - int19h, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1Agree, Firefox 3 beta 5 is very stable. The only crashes I've experienced are with the Adobe Flash plugin. Gnash is getting usable on some websites, though (youtube). :)
- BobCFC, on 04/22/2008, -0/+2It's precisely because it is long term release that they moved to the latest version. LTS is supported for 3years on the desktop and 5 years on the server.
  
  They don't trust Mozilla to still be releasing security updates for the 2.x branch in 3+years.
  
  And as others have said it is actually stable, I am using it to type this lol
T8erT0T, on 04/22/2008, -2/+7I'm effin psyched I can finally work around the locked bios I have on this ***** school laptop and use Wubi to give me 8.04. That's definitely a great plus I'm glad they gave this time around.
- cawpin, on 04/22/2008, -1/+7Locked BIOS? Do you mean the BIOS has a password on it? If so, look around the web for a solution. Almost all can be reset without knowing them. You just have to read up on it. I've done two myself in the past.
  - T8erT0T, on 04/22/2008, -0/+4Lol, if you can find me a way to get the pw off a Thinkpad R52 without making a complicated printer dongle attachment or shipping it out to someone, I'll send you 5 bucks for a beer.
  - weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -2/+8pop the cmos battery out? ;)
    - angrylinuxgeek, on 04/22/2008, -0/+6Thinkpads have security features to keep you from getting around it like that. t8ert0t was correct, you have to make a dongle or send it to support.
      - weizbox, on 04/22/2008, -0/+2ahh, kk
        good old IBM. so pro :)
- directrix13, on 04/22/2008, -2/+1Locked BIOS what now? If they have the boot sector on the hard drive set to read-only I would assume you would be as out of luck as now. Unless they only turned off CD/external boot.
  - trogdoor, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2I believe that ntldr, like grub, uses an external file ( boot.ini ? ) stored on the Windows partition, as wubi simply modifies this file a read only boot sector wouldn't stop it from installing.
    - directrix13, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1oh, cool. I didn't realize it used the nt bootloader. Well, yeah very possible then.... if you have Admin password ;-).
- newwatch51, on 04/22/2008, -1/+2If you use Wubi, you won't need to change any bios settings. Or at least that was my impression. Never actually used it though.
  - vertexoflife, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3This is correct.
freedomorfire, on 04/22/2008, -2/+12the hardy heron beta really impressed me. all my hardware worked with no hacking or anything (even webcam) and beryl worked out of the box too.

cant wait for full release
- pr0gr4mm3r, on 04/22/2008, -0/+17Ubuntu 8.04 is shipped with Compiz Fusion, not Beryl.
- gn0stik, on 04/22/2008, -0/+9beryl doesn't exist anymore.
  - DarkDx, on 04/22/2008, -0/+10Beryl is so 2007
- Rsulliv1, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1any chance you got it working with a Sprint 3g pcmcia card? I can't get mine working no matter how many forums I try.... it's certainly not ootb compatible and even the airprime patch doesn't work anymore....
- int19h, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1But, this is the full release?
stix213, on 04/22/2008, -3/+44As a computer tech I used to like Windows in general, but now that I've been using Ubuntu for the last 3 releases on my home and work machines I have found that I cannot stand using a Windows machine anymore. Windows is just so sluggish and boring.... I also hate that in every new version they try to hide more of the inner workings of the OS from you, even though those inner workings will fail at some point and need a tech to repair them.

A Linux machine is just so much easier to fix if you know what you are doing. All the settings aren't stored in easily corruptible registry files, that can't be edited with a text editor. The OS is completely modular with only limited interdependencies, so when there is a problem it is already isolated (When you mess up IE in Windows sometimes half your apps can't connect to the network anymore because Windows networking and IE are integrated for some ridiculous reason)
- gn0stik, on 04/22/2008, -14/+4I call bullshiat
- SSUK, on 04/22/2008, -11/+11If you boot into Safe Mode in Windows, you're given all this 'inner workings of the OS'. I sure as hell don't miss the screens of text I used to get when booting into Windows 95 or 98.
  While I see your arguments against the Windows platform, the problem is that after several months of using 7.10 Ubuntu, I just can't adjust to it. Although I consider myself quite computer literate, I don't see why I need to type lines of text into a terminal to install programs. And since the only computer I have the HDD space to mess around with Ubuntu on, is my desktop. Which is used by my whole family, who are confused and frightened if they get a pop-up while surfing the internet.
  Windows may be running on what is basically a OS dragged through the 1980's, it's not exactly the most wonderfully made thing ever, it may not come with the bells and whistles OSX or many distros of Linux does, but when you're not fighting the occasional, obscure fault in Windows, Windows works and does it's job as easily as possible for the end user. Ubuntu tries to mimic Windows user-friendliness but it's still miles behind Windows, if it runs on a registry or is susceptible (although very uncommon now-a-day) to the BSoD.
  
  I do actually root for Ubuntu though, it shows great potential. But it's just not a right fit for me or anyone I can think of right now. Windows XP and Vista, although costing an arm and a leg, does everything I and my family wants and does it without fuss. Plus, it comes pre-installed on basically every computer available to buy in stores right now which just simplifies everything.
  - intangible, on 04/22/2008, -1/+10Why are you installing apps from the command line instead of double-clicking the .deb package?
    Or try exploring the "System->Administration" menu... "Synaptic" is the GUI way to find and install packages if you don't want to find them on your own on the net.
  - stix213, on 04/23/2008, -1/+4You don't get all the inner workings of the OS from safe mode. Corrupted registry??? can't get into safe mode.... Missing any number of DLL's? can't get into safe mode..... Need to install a driver??? Can't even do a simple thing like that in safe mode..... Need to install an update to Windows? Can't do that in safe mode.... Need to install a program? Most can't be installed in safe mode....
  - int19h, on 04/24/2008, -0/+11. You don't need to type commands to install programs.
    2. A user friendly GUI does _not_ originate from Windows, but from operating systems before Windows.
- HoratioHellpop, on 04/22/2008, -13/+5//A Linux machine is just so much easier to fix if you know what you are doing.// In other news, a Windows machine is just so much easier to fix if you know what you are doing.
  - arjie, on 04/22/2008, -4/+11Not true. I have a brand new Vista machine (some of my recent comments show me supporting Vista). However, when Windows Update failed to install one update you know what it said? Failed. Error code: 8008005. And there's a helpful link next to it which points to _some other_ code in the help documents. Easy to fix? *****.
    
    Error code, in this day and age.
    - Amiga500, on 04/23/2008, -2/+4Linux has error codes too. That's IF it gives you an error at all. Sometimes you have to dig up a console window, try the program there, then see if it spits out the reason it won't start. Nice slip up.
    - jay019, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2But at least you have the ability to do it that way. Would a windows application that crashes when started from the dos prompt give any more usefull information?
    - HoratioHellpop, on 04/23/2008, -2/+0//Error code: 8008005// And, of course, you googled that error and clicked on the second result, taking you to the Microsoft support page. Just like you do when you come across errors in Linux. Right?
      - stix213, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1Ubuntu forums have had nearly all the error messages I have run into explained, plus include user comments that clue you into other ways to fix the problems..... MS's support pages don't allow anyone to comment, so you just have to trust MS and click the link that says this wasn't useful when it doesn't work.
- Amiga500, on 04/23/2008, -11/+4LOL. "Inner Workings". Shut up, you don't even have a clue. Nice try sounding "Tech" though, I'm sure you fooled a few peeping toms out there.
  - stix213, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1You don't know what you are talking about.
    
    2 Quick Examples:
    1) In Windows 3.1 most settings where in easily editable text files (Linux'ish), so when there was a problem you could easily fix it via a text editor. Windows 95 and up moved most of this into the registry, which when corrupted your only choice is to restore from a backup (like manually getting into system_volume_information and pulling good registry backups from there) or reinstall the OS. If you just messed up an important setting, editing the registry from a boot floppy is dangerous and difficult, but is an only option sometimes if your registry problem prevents even safe mode from working (yes you can do it by feeding .reg files with your changes from a Windows created DOS boot disk)
    2) With Windows XP they removed the security tab by default from the properties page of folders & files, unless booted to safe mode. Yes this can be enabled, but it is very annoying and is specifically set to hide the "inner workings" from supposedly clueless computer users. At least Linux doesn't look down on their users in this way.
socketman, on 04/22/2008, -4/+5I really like Ubuntu, if only it wasn't such a huge pain in the ass to get all my games and windows apps working correctly on it, I could finally be windows free.

I have a feeling I'll be making the switch before too ling though if this next "windows 7" is going to be all modular and have different EULAs for different models and all of that junk.
- int19h, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1Just give a list of all your games and windows apps here. I bet we'll find equally good or better alternatives for most of them and that about half of the others will run fine through the native Win32-implementation in Ubuntu (Wine). If you're only considering habits and not needs you should probably stick with Windows, though.
fredmv, on 04/22/2008, -2/+8update-manager -d, folks. I'd urge anyone that has been shying away from the world of GNU/Linux to give Ubuntu a fair, honest try. Hardy is without doubt the most stable, robust release yet. You just may find that it's the best operating system you've ever used. I'd venture out to say that many would never even touch Windows again.
- priegog, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1Yeah, I'd recommend to upgrade-manager -d now, before the zerg rush the day after tomorrow. I'll be clean installing from an iso from a torrent, tho.
- Megatog615, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1Don't you need to pass the -c flag as well since Hardy still counts as a devel release?
  - picpak, on 04/23/2008, -1/+11. Alt+F2
    2. gksudo update-manager -dc
  - Labourer, on 04/23/2008, -6/+1how about they make it simple?. you browse to the install executable and double click. follow the prompts . that is what people want.
    - tj111, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1This just launches the update manager and sets it to look for development releases as well. After 8.04 is final, user's will see a little message saying something like "A newer version of Ubuntu is available, do you want to update?" in their update manager. And if they don't want to update to it, it doesn't hassle you over the decision.
- willfe, on 04/23/2008, -0/+3I must second (third?) this. I ran it on my amd64 box at home, with an integrated NVidia card (heh, binary-only driver fun!) and 3GB of memory; 1,300+ packages were named as upgrade candidates. I gulped and hit [let's do it]. It friggin' worked. Not a single glitch or hitch. One reboot required for the kernel upgrade, which was fine and had no problems. Absolutely everything worked flawlessly on the first attempt. I am happy :)
  
  Oh, and Firefox 3 Beta 5 == stable goodness, and much more stable than Firefox 2. I have no complaints with this being in an LTS release. It belongs here :)
Morghin, on 04/22/2008, -3/+11This is the release that will most likely tip me over to Linux :)
bigsteve, on 04/22/2008, -3/+12Ubuntu has done something amazing. It's put Linux into the hands of so many who normally would have never touched it. It's replaced Mandrake/Mandriva as my recommended distro of choice for newcomers to the Linux scene. I've always sort of predicted that it'll really only take three major things to give Linux desktop adoption the push that it's had in these past few years. 1) A major distro with fantastic out of the box hardware detection and support. 2) a major distro with a fantastic online support presence, complete with tutorials detailing common tasks ("I wish to play DVD movies on my laptop.." such things were very difficult 7 years ago) and 3) that these two distros would hopefully, in fact, be one distro.

One very irritating thing, though, is Ubuntu's big name coming back to haunt it by way of a very vocal ignorant minority of people who aren't willing to put time into desktop Linux to make it work (especially if you're not a driver programmer..) or who don't know exactly what they're getting into. Those who don't understand the dynamic of why some hardware works in limited or non-existant fashion. I just hope the FUD and crap spread by these users doesn't undo too much of the great work Ubuntu has done of bringing new people to the table.
- willfe, on 04/23/2008, -2/+2"One very irritating thing, though, is Ubuntu's big name coming back to haunt it by way of a very vocal ignorant minority of people who aren't willing to put time into desktop Linux to make it work"
  
  This happens to every distro, sadly :( Red Hat has passed the torch to Ubuntu these days, but it's always happened this way. The abusive newbies are unceremoniously shown the door on the Ubuntu forums best I can tell -- they either wise up and decide abusing the people trying to help doesn't solve anything and change their attitude, or they go away. I view either outcome as a win for the community :)
  - int19h, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1It's human to complain. Newbies just don't know that the people answering the questions are doing more of an effort in answering than the newbies are in seeking the answers. I think it's important to educate new users as far as it is possible, rather than sending them away as ignorant as they came.
magic6435, on 04/22/2008, -18/+5Does it reflect their continued decision to use stupid ***** names for releases.
- DemonWasp, on 04/22/2008, -1/+5Ah, so "Leopard", "Tiger", "Vista", "XP", "NT" and "98" are much better, are they? Please explain.
  - Amiga500, on 04/23/2008, -4/+1Yes. If you need an explanation for that, you should seek some kind of therapy outside of Digg. We can not help you.
  - magic6435, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1ooooooo your mean all those names that people were already familiar with? I work at a small computer shop have heard people come in asking about ubuntu and heron in over 15 different ways.
    - jay019, on 04/23/2008, -0/+0I sure hope your handing them an install CD then! It doesnt matter how they ask, just the fact that they do.
- yetAnotherCroc, on 04/22/2008, -0/+6What names for releases? Ubuntu 8.04 seems to follow fairly regular run of the mill software naming conventions.
  
  If you are talking about Hardy heron then that is just the development codename. Kind of like Whistler for XP, Blackcomb/Longhorn for Vista and Albany for Windows 7. Dont see how those codenames are any less stupid then Hardy Heron
  - gudnbluts, on 04/22/2008, -4/+1I keep hearing people say this (about them being just codenames), yet everybody does still refers to them by the stupid Nintendo names, so it's totally irrelevant.
    
    "Dont see how those codenames are any less stupid then Hardy Heron"
    
    And that's one of the problems. Ubuntu fans do seem to be blind to how embarrassingly bad they are.
    - Amiga500, on 04/23/2008, -4/+1These are the same vapid idiots that can't figure out why Gimp is a terrible name for a wanna be Photoshop replacement. It's a bad name for a number of reasons, even before Pulp Fiction came out. But being blind is part of the appeal of Linux in general.... unfortunately.
fr34k5h0w, on 04/22/2008, -1/+5Have they made it any easier to install on a software RAID0? I tried to install Gutsy on a server with only a RAID0 and had so many problems with gParted and the installer that I just gave up and put XP on it.
- diggrim, on 04/22/2008, -2/+1XP on a server? If you can easily change from Ubuntu to XP on a server, it's probably not a server.
  - fr34k5h0w, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1It's a media server for my house. I originally had Ubuntu 7.10, but adding the second drive and trying to make a RAID0 out of it caused so many problems I gave up and put XP on it. I'll have to look into LVM.
- intangible, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3RAID 0? Do you like impending doom?
  Look into doing a LVM instead, you may get what you want in a more stable way.
  - eoraptor013, on 04/25/2008, -0/+0Not if what you want is high-speed disk R/W. I use RAID 0, and I backup anything critical. All OS and software can always be reinstalled. Once you've used HW RAID 0, you don't ever want to go back to single drive or mirroring.
- neko, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1I used the (text-based, not livecd) Alternate Install CD when I was setting up 7.10 on the machines at work - because apparently it has better support for setting up LVM & RAID.
rexuslexus, on 04/22/2008, -11/+5What kinda ***** up name is Hardon Henry... oohh wait....
- DemonWasp, on 04/22/2008, -0/+4Syldexics untie!
chmcarro, on 04/22/2008, -13/+19I know that this is an unpopular opinion, but I have to say that Hardy Heron(or linux in general) is no Windows replacement, as much as I'd like it to be. There are so many subtle annoyances that make it inferior to OS X, XP, and Vista. I can list several things that don't work as expected and I would get many replies on how to fix it at the terminal. But that is the problem. Normal users shouldn't have to deal with a terminal.
- DemonWasp, on 04/22/2008, -6/+9The terminal may seem intimidating to a beginning user, but it's actually way, way easier to follow directions given in the terminal. They generally involve way, way fewer steps, and for most of those it's copy-paste X line of code and run it.
  
  Compare the simple task of installing application X:
  GUI:
  1. Click on Applications -> Add/Remove
  2. Search for application X
  3. Click on install button.
  
  Terminal:
  1. sudo apt-get install X
  2. enter password
  - aliguana, on 04/22/2008, -6/+5compare to windows > double-click on the icon to install, or OSX > drag to your apps folder (usually). My grandmother isn't going to mess around with apt-get, no matter how simply I explain it.
    - oblique63, on 04/22/2008, -0/+4they're called .deb files... they install even more simply than exe files (no annoying dialogs that keep asking you to press 'Next')... and browsing Add/Remove Applications is usually a lot easier than searching the internet for programs...
      
      plus, installations are faster...
      - aliguana, on 04/23/2008, -2/+1granted. but your average joe user isn't going to browse add/remove repositories. Common software usage is
        a) you find a piece of software via Google/recommendation/weblink, or buy from store
        b) you click to download
        c) you install
        
        usually, if you go to Linux software sites, you get "download source and build it" or "get RPM from repositories" or somesuch arcane babble. These .deb files would go a long way to user friendlyness, but they aren't generally and widely available. I've only seen a few, anyroad
    - intangible, on 04/22/2008, -0/+5Then your grandmother will download the .deb file just like she downloads the .exe or .msi in windows and will double-click it. Done.
      - aliguana, on 04/23/2008, -1/+1fine. then programmers need to start putting .deb files on their sites and stop relying on repositories.
    - Goner, on 04/22/2008, -3/+4what percentage, would you say, of random OSS apps out there have .DEB files available for download on their sites? I have never seen one of these .DEB files of which you speak...
      - oblique63, on 04/23/2008, -3/+5well, usually you dont need to look to hard for them, because they're mostly all in the repositories... but most modern oss projects do have debian binaries...
        
        have you heard of .rpm files?
        
        if so, then just know that they're virtually equally common (and Im sure you would have to know how common they are if you answered yes to this question), despite you not having heard of .deb files before somehow...
        
        if you answered 'no' however, you sir, have been living under a rock... BUT, no worries! just open up a terminal and type:
        sudo apt-get remove rock && sudo apt-get install life
        
        and enjoy!
    - int19h, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1You forgot the endless search for an application that isn't adware/spyware that can actually do the task.
  - chmcarro, on 04/22/2008, -2/+2Feed a man a fish (give them a command to paste) vs. teach a man to fish (show them a control panel or options window)
    - DemonWasp, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2Yes, but you have to remember, I was speaking about "normal users" here. Believe it or not, not everybody wants to know how to do things in general, they just want to clear the immediate hurdle.
  - haterofps3, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3The problem is that your instructions shortcut the step of opening terminal so really there are just as many steps "3".
- mossblaser, on 04/22/2008, -2/+15As DemonWasp says but also really you will not have to use a terminal in linux any more than in windows or OS X. Also, things "not working the way you expect" - come on thats like acting surprised that a jet is "not the way you'd expect" having learned to drive a car. If by annoyances you mean inconsistent software installers [windows], rename your home folder because you don't realise what might happen only to find all your applications just break [mac os], random security warnings [windows vista], being locked into one hardware vendor [mac os], antivirus and other software being neccesary [windows], haveing lots of seperate update managers for all your apps [both], having to browse the net manually to find a program then take the leap of faith that it is not some dodgey virus, then install it, then find it needs some other app to run, find that app.. repeat.. [both], not be able to (with no legal qualms) run the OS from a CD or portable drive to fix a problem or to run on someone elses' computer [both], not including ***** rsync (or similar) [both] not being able to burn ISOs without 3rd party software or a terminal [both], having shifty closed source licenses [both], controlling company having questionable business practices (anti-trust and blatently ignoring the EU) [windows], having advertisments that spent thier time slagging off the competition [mac os] and the list goes on....
  - gudnbluts, on 04/22/2008, -5/+3"but also really you will not have to use a terminal in linux any more than in windows or OS X"
    
    Wow. Do you really believe that? How bizarre.
- init100, on 04/22/2008, -3/+4"I can list several things that don't work as expected"
  
  Does that mean "don't work the same way as in Windows" to you? Surprise, surprise, Linux is not Windows, and it will probably never work exactly like Windows.
  - chmcarro, on 04/22/2008, -2/+3I did not elaborate because I wanted my comment to be brief. I had issues with dual monitor support and had to edit xorg.conf. I couldn't run the steam installer in WINE without executing the install command for .msi files. I don't want to type my password every time I log in to connect to my wireless network that uses encryption. It's not about it being exactly like windows. It's about having UI options built in.
    - jay019, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1> I don't want to type my password every time I log in to connect to my wireless network that uses encryption
      
      Sounds like you want to use WICD - http://wicd.sourceforge.net/
      - chmcarro, on 04/23/2008, -1/+1Thanks, I'll give it a shot. But can you see how this is a problem? It seems like for every little user change, a patch needs to be applied. My point is, hopefully, one day Ubuntu will be ready as a Windows replacement, but Hardy Heron is not that.
    - init100, on 04/24/2008, -0/+2"I had issues with dual monitor support and had to edit xorg.conf."
      
      In the beta of Fedora 9 I tried, there was a dual-monitors tab in the display settings panel. I couldn't try it though, since I ran it in a virtual machine.
      
      "I don't want to type my password every time I log in to connect to my wireless network that uses encryption."
      
      IIRC, the Gnome keyring in recent versions of Gnome is supposed to be unlocked when you login to the system, alleviating the need to enter the keyring passphrase separately.
GSnake, on 04/22/2008, -2/+4I'm still in the boat of not having dev support for Linux. I use reliable Windows apps that just don't work on Linux (WinAmp, Photoshop, etc..). Sure the programs can be tweaked to work, but they still do not perform fully, which is completely understandable if the programs were designed solely for Windows environments. Gaming seems to also be a problem, unless someone can steer me in the right direction, a game like Call of Duty 4 is not possible on Linux, at least not the multiplayer aspect, as there are many punkbuster issues with Linux and Windows games.
Once gaming gets settled in, and there's more ready support for Windows apps, I will undoubtedly jump to linux. I have the latest Ubuntu beta running on an older machine, and I love the thing, the OS is clean, runs like it's supposed to, and you don't feel bogged down, the integration of great open-source apps is a good bonus too.
- ryzic, on 04/22/2008, -3/+4This is basically the problem with Linux in a nutshell. There are alternatives to Winamp and Photoshop (like AmaroK or GIMP), but it still is different software, with a new learning curve.
- init100, on 04/22/2008, -0/+9I'm not going to suggest The GIMP as a replacement for Photoshop, but what unique features do you need in WinAMP that are not available in Linux music players?
- int19h, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1winamp -> xmms or bmpx
  photoshop -> photoshop in Wine, Krita, Pixel or Gimp
kingofnexus, on 04/22/2008, -4/+78.04 Isn't as great as everyone is making out. People like me who have a TV card installed get greeted with 'Failed to Initialize HAL' error which can only be resolved my black listing the appropiate TV modules. Earlier version of Ubuntu never had this problem. The final release of 8.04 better resolve this issue.
- mossblaser, on 04/22/2008, -0/+7Its unfortunate, but i must point out, for every TV card I've come accross, its not just stayed out of trouble, its worked out of the box 100%, teletext and all.
- 000dom000, on 04/22/2008, -0/+5I have a TV card and it operates exactly as it did before. I am still having problems with external drives being messed up, but I'm expecting a big change as we get the final release.
- willfe, on 04/23/2008, -0/+5So it's not as good as everyone claims because your specific card has one specific problem that is resolved with one specific fix/workaround?
- Rsulliv1, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Sprint 3g pc cards don't work at all either. all of the 7.10 workarounds haven't helped me get it working yet...
darthbator, on 04/22/2008, -1/+3If cannocial has such a close working relationship with Intel as stated below

"Regarding engineering work, he added that Canonical has a tight partnership with Intel, an "extensive on-site engineering relationship where we integrate support for latest platforms."

Why do graphics and wireless drivers for the i965 platform suck SO much. Not that I don't love Ubuntu IMO the most stable desktop distro however it seems that for a company that "works closlely" with intel they sure seem to lack great support as far as devce drivers (especially on laptops where almot everything is integrated).
- diggrim, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1yeah, I just setup a Quad core with a (cheap) ECS mobo and the graphics driver for the integrated Intel video card is giving me trouble...brings me back to my earlier days of Linux! :(
- trogdoor, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1In what way do they suck?
- willfe, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1"Works closely with" does not translate to "Intel actually puts significant resources into driver development for i965 wireless on Linux." Remember it could very well be little more than marketing effort on Intel's part, while the actual support amounts to little more than "oh, here's a few docs on how these chips work, good luck, and don't violate our intellectual property either."
almighty, on 04/22/2008, -2/+8As much as I love Linux and Ubuntu, this is all the article had to say:

The new Ubuntu version is coming out. It has new KVM visualization support for the server, it can be easily tested in Windows, and better support for some media types.

There is no other good info in this article. Why is this on the front page?
- garoo, on 04/22/2008, -2/+4Because its got UBUNTU in the title That's all it takes now :(
  
  Seriously, I like the release too but man. It shouldn't be a ticket to frontpagesville
- init100, on 04/22/2008, -0/+2"KVM visualization"
  
  Are you sure you didn't mean KVM virtualization? :)
hardcorerikki, on 04/22/2008, -3/+4LTS release? Best one EVER...
...till the next LTS, needless to state ;p
- vertexoflife, on 04/22/2008, -1/+2Until the next release, even non LTS. 8.10, here we come!!
kenplaysviola, on 04/22/2008, -2/+6Will this version bring back the /etc/inittab? I'm sure many non-Ubuntu Linux users will relate to what I'm talking about.
- trogdoor, on 04/23/2008, -1/+5Considering that Ubuntu uses upstart rather than sysv-init I seriously doubt it.
- willfe, on 04/23/2008, -1/+2Does it need to? It still boots :)
TheCommentThief, on 04/22/2008, -7/+9I've been Windows free for about 4 years now. I honestly feel free on the Linux platform. I started with Fedora Core, but when Ubuntu came out I gave it a shot. Right now I'm on 8.04 and I really must say, watching Ubuntu grow up has been almost like watching a child grow into a respectable adult. 8.04 is a solid piece of software and I'd recommend it to anyone. Ubuntu has my full support even in their endeavors as a mobile software solution.
/end fatherly rant.
- gudnbluts, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1I assume those of you who've Dugg him up didn't read the whole thread, and realise his name is literal.
  - xTRUMANx, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1I dugg him up BECAUSE his name was literal. Seriously, we need more characters at the comments section. Problem is one idiot took CaptainObvious and he isn't active (the one character I was interested in doing).
    - cheeseplease, on 04/24/2008, -0/+0Agreed, but why don't you just create Captain_Obvious, Cpt.Obvious, etc? Seems like a lame excuse for not doing something cool.
quail20, on 04/22/2008, -4/+4I tested Hardy a week ago but reinstalled Gutsy because of Wifi issues. The Hardy Beta was impossible for this Newbie to configure. I'll just wait until Hardy is further developed before upgrading my son's machine. Ubuntu is great for people who just need the basics from their computer. But more people won't make the jump until they realize they don't have to do everything by way of the command line. (There's a reason why the majority of people use a GUI.)
- 000dom000, on 04/22/2008, -1/+6Firstly, for Newbies, a Beta is the last thing I would recommend. Certain aspects won't work because it is unstable and experimental. As for the command line, it is not widely known that everything doesn't have to be done through terminal. Ubuntu is usable without it, but still parts of it rely on it.
NYxSt8OfMInd, on 04/22/2008, -3/+4the only way i will make the switch to Linux is when programs like Adobe Creative Suite 3 are available.That's one of the main reasons i dont make the switch, because if i do what am i going to do?...just browse the web?....right now I'm using leopard and I'm loving it.
LOVEANDEQUALITY, on 04/22/2008, -4/+5I've been Windows free for about 1 year i got a MACBOOK and im soon in like 2 months im going to buy a dell with UBUNTU on it!

PS: im soooooooooooo exited!
- notrub225, on 04/22/2008, -1/+5Why dont you put Ubuntu on your Macbook?
  - Amiga500, on 04/23/2008, -5/+3That's like banging a crack whore when you just married Heidi Klum.
- DarkDx, on 04/22/2008, -2/+2That's like going from xp to vista, dude just get the new macbook and put ubuntu on it, or use your current macbook and put ubuntu on it :S
Chunken, on 04/22/2008, -2/+3I've been using 8.04 for about a week now. Wifi worked out of the box, so did the side buttons on my mouse. WoW runs as good or better than in Vista and I just got Ventrilo up and running today. Ubuntu and WINE keep getting better and better all the time. Ubuntu or some other form of Linux is going to be a real threat to Microsoft in a few years.
- daviangel, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Yeah I just got around to installing 8.04 on a my secondary machine and it was the first distro to actually let me use my wireless usb stick without having to open a terminal and get all geeky-LOL!
  I did have to open a terminal to get my ATI card properly detected and install proper drivers so no improvements there:(
  If they are attempting to target mainstream user or Windows switchers I seriously doubt they'll make much progress since partitioning is still way to complex and there is no hand-holding at for new user like Vista/MacosX. I mean if my network card is not detected or my video can you at least popup a dialog telling me so?
Black6x, on 04/23/2008, -1/+3I attempted the switch to Ubuntu a few weeks ago (dual boot with Vista), and had mixed feelings. It's a simple operating system, my laptop DEFINITELY ran a lot cooler, and things didn't bog down as much. The terminal took some getting used to, but experience with DOS helped. I do like the support for programs, which is built into the tarballs themselves, teaching even the most inexperienced person how to use things like the "make" command. The fact that the Linux community realizes that they have to help each other is nice, since everyone talks about the problems they see.

I have an HP TX1000 series laptop, which was a huge pain to get started on Gutsy with. I still don't think the headphones jack works. I actually had to reinstall the damn thing because i screwed something up so badly. However, once it gets going, it's fairly easy to get around in.

My only real reason for sticking with windows is the fact that there are a handful of programs that I use that I can't find a fully functional equivalent for in Unix. MS Money is actually a big one for me, as the ability to download all of my accounts automatically is a huge time saver (if anyone wants to recommend a program, I would appreciate it). Having my Tomtom software, and Bob & Tom downloads are trivial, but nice. Money doesn't work in Wine. MOST of the other programs that I use, I have been able to find equivalents, but that's because when I was a Windows user, I had already started using open source software (PIDGIN, Firefox, GAIM). Thunderbird is a nice carryover, I just hate having to redo my calendar.

I will definitely take a weekend to check Hardy, though. If I had a computer that didn't have an operating system, and had to choose between MS's $$$ option, and Ubuntu and a little elbow grease, I'd definitely have to go with Ubuntu.
- hackmeister, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2How about using Vmware or Virtualbox to run those Windows apps? The only place a legacy OS like Windows should run is inside of a virtual machine. If the image gets infected with a virus or spyware just roll back to a clean image version.
MrViklund, on 04/23/2008, -7/+1Ubuntu is all about the hype. Please give Ubuntu more free inc. All this hype just makes me more reluctant to not install Ubuntu at all.
I do run Linux on a computer here, and it's great. But my main machine is Vista and it really rox.
DestroyFascism, on 04/23/2008, -1/+3Ubuntu is an awesome OS. Just needs an easier share system for Window$ advertising agency software (ie plot random share rule here) and better office networking for the non technical SOHO (Printing without the 40 questions, and the doors will swing wide open. Of course the die hards will digg me down now. I think you should try it though, if you are a SOHO or a programmer.
weizbox, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1Any idea why Ubuntu/Canonical is pushing 'the Magnatune online music store'? I skipped over this the last time I read it...

Check this out: http://www.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntu-8.04-lts-desktop
"Music sharing and download: Users can plug in a PSP, share playlists with friends, buy from the Magnatune online music store, stream live radio and plug in more devices than ever (with UpnP)."

Why would they suggest to but music from 'Magnatune' specifically? Personally, I've never heard of it.. so I would think that if they were trying to use it as a generic way to say you can download music from online music stores.. they did a bad job.

Anyone else find this odd? Has anyone even heard of or used Magnatune before?
MonkeyMonk, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1I've been using Ubuntu on all my home systems since Warty, and save for a few short reinstalls back to win-blow$ land, I've been M$ free. I still run windows, albeit in a Virtualbox VM. It's the only place I trust having MS software anymore.
InorganicMatter, on 04/23/2008, -3/+2Still no half-decent KDE4 distro. Still using barf orange themes Still using disgusting default fonts. Still forcing me to jump through "restricted drivers" hoops to get my hardware working. FAIL!

I tried OpenSUSE 11 Beta earlier this week, and am typing this from the Hardy RC. I think I'm going back to the OpenSUSE beta. Ubuntu still fails on too many levels to count.
- UKsHaDoW, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1Restricted Driver hoops?
  Restricted driver manager does things, you would do manually on opensuse. Rather than going through the packages, you just click the checkbox.
  - InorganicMatter, on 04/24/2008, -2/+1I shouldn't even have to do that. It needs to install the binary driver by default.
AvangionQ, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1I'm looking forward to the next version of Ubuntu Linux ... actually, I just waiting for my Windows XP to crash on me hard before switching over ... delaying the inevitable, I guess ...
al11588, on 04/24/2008, -2/+0Just to tell you Ubuntu is a operating system that was cheaply made by a pack or chimps who wanted to rule the world. Intelligent human beings made windows that is why they rule the majority of the market share. Microsoft-FTW
- cheeseplease, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1Sssshh! Remember the first rule...
KeiraDazi, on 04/29/2008, -0/+0Hmm...this MIGHT just be the push I needed to finally switch over to Linux.. There must be better alternatives made to some windows apps though. This still has me a bit indecisive..
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Hardy Heron reflects Ubuntu Linux ambitions

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