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48 Comments
- shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -5/+23an unintended consequence of dell idea storm perhaps?
maybe HP figured while dell's idea storm turned into dell's ***** storm they could swoop in for a PR point bonus of X2 ?? - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22Before people start trolling this comment thread about how "it's a waste of time", think of this:
A few years ago we would have NEVER even been having this argument.
The fact that we are right now, means in itself that Linux has come a LONG way whether you hate it or love it. - Howdawg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20That is cool, maybe it will be Ubuntu?
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17"...brute force article submission..."
1.) It was submitted to the LINUX section - clearly a place you shouldn't be.
2.) You clearly don't understand how Digg works.
Web browsers are equipped with these really cool things called scrollbars. You seem like you WANT to use them, but just can't find them. - sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Well. I trust HP more than Dell, but I don't want to be let down again. So I guess we'll see.
- killtherat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12"That is cool, maybe it will be Ubuntu?"
Honestly, couldn't care less (I typically install fedora). Just as long as it ships with devices that can be driven by linux, and doesn't have the Windows tax. They can put any Distro on it, I'll just re-install. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10It's not about Microsoft "disappearing" - they do some cool stuff.
It's about leveling the playing field and having options. - ElectricSoup, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14"Microsoft worried"
They should be. There have to be leaner times ahead for them--how lean is anyone's guess, but leaner for sure.
Roughly Drafted points out that Apple already has a good share of the high end of the home market--which is a highly lucrative place to have your market share--and is set to expand that. Meanwhile, as time passes Linux has to be looking better and better as an alternative for corporate desktops.
"... Microsoft will be forced to choose whether it wants to battle Mac OS X for control of the slick consumer desktop, or repurpose Windows as a cheaper, mass market alternative to Linux in corporate sales.
"If it doesn’t make a choice, the company will face difficult battles on two fronts. Microsoft hasn't needed to compete for years, because had been able to use its monopoly position to prevent competition. Those days are now over.
"Microsoft is not exactly in great shape to be competing against smarter, nimbler, and less expensive rivals."
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/9EF16A95-278E-40ED-9E00-FBEBD75207FB.html - shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12""We are involved in a number of massive deals for Linux desktops, and those are the kinds of things that are indicators of critical mass. So we are really looking at it very hard," said Doug Small, worldwide director of open source and Linux marketing at HP. "We are in a massive deal right now for ... multi-thousands of units of a desktop opportunity for Linux. That's an indicator." He declined to give details about the Linux deals."
"Linux" and "critical mass", those two terms together have got to have Microsoft worried, there's a large FUD storm a' brewing... - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11Let's see if we can make naio21's head explode by getting two more articles to the front page
- davidrools, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7or maybe develop their own distro? either way i'll buy one. sucks to pay for windows if you dont use it.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I meant the argument over "OEMs supporting/certifying/pre-installing Linux" - not the general "Windows vs. Linux"
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9They are, as we speak....
"Precision Open-Source Desktops with Linux"
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/precn_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd
I don't see Dell's stock plummeting, do you? - sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4 XVampireX,
That's easy. No real woman would want him... - Ankh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@davidrools:
then it's gonna be the next OS X stuff. Think of it, apple took BSD and developed OS X. Why can't HP if they want to? - noddyxoi, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Linux as already won. The market will take care of the rest...
- Cruelapollo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"A robot can't say no"
- JonForTheWin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3A discount doesn't help you much if it's a discount on something you aren't buying. The only way they'll lose money is if MS is bribing them (which they've been caught doing to OEMs before).
- motang, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Well this is pretty cool, I just bought an HP laptop las year. Maybe my next one witll have Linux pre-installed one it. Hopefully we would get a choice as to which distro we can.
- ewhac, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2My worry is that discussions concerning which distro to pre-load will center around SUSE or RedHat, and that Debian-based distros will be kept off the table.
- kavaliro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2http://digg.com/linux_unix/Dell_and_Desktop_Linux_Can_it_Work#c5388472
When you're right, your right. Dell had the opportunity to capitalize on their survey, even though it was supposed to be a publicity stunt, but they failed to do it.
Now HP is taking the bull by the horns. I'll be in the market for a laptop in the near future, and it'll likely be an HP now, provided they preload Ubuntu and not Novell's crap.
Having said that, everything better work. I don't want a non-functional card reader, for instance. If it doesn't work, leave it off the laptop. And WiFi just better work, period. Otherwise, what's HP leveraging that separates them from the generic laptops? - XVampireX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Robot? Why Robot?
- davidrools, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ankh
could be, but wouldn't a linux-based OS need to be open source, according to the licensing terms of the linux kernel? As for OSX, it's a closed source OS that runs on top of FreeBSD but isn't itself a modified version of FBSD, no? - XVampireX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Yeah, Ubuntu got commercial support though, but they just want to keep the damn thing Free both Beer and Speech. But that doesn't mean that OEM's are not allowed to sell it, they should be able to use Ubuntu on their Desktops, easily.
Redhat is not quite a desktop operating system, it really is more of a workstation operating system (operating system here I mean distribution).
SUSE seems centered on the desktop though, more than just workstation.
Personally I'd like Kubuntu with it, but its true we should have the choice of a distro :P Though there are too many distributions to choose from, but take a look, Ubuntu has the majority users now. - wvdavis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Yesterday, two Dell / Linux stories on the front page, today its two HP / Linux stories on the front page. The Penguin marches on!!!
- jhaven, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6Thank GOD!
Just yesterday I was on the phone with HP asking if it was possible to order a laptop with no OS (and obviously no stupid MS Works).
After spending 10 minutes listening to this woman tell me "Well, you can take it off once you get it, if you want to" a thousand times, and her not understanding that that would defeat the ENTIRE purpose of asking for a laptop without Vista pre-installed, I finally got her to tell me that they don't sell laptops without an OS.
If I buy a laptop, I don't want to have to pay extra for the "luxury" of formatting the drive myself.
Laptops pre-loaded with Linux obviously aren't going to be OS-free, but I don't mind having to format them myself, as long as I don't have to pay for an OS I'm not going to use. - davidrools, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1FTA: "they are considering offering standard systems with a preloaded distro of Linux, which would be an industry first for desktops and notebooks"
Industry first?? There are plenty of places to buy a linux desktop or laptop. (http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html) Though obviously none are as prominent as HP. - dmitriyvoz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Linux as already won. The market will take care of the rest... The same theme on Russian sites: http://pivo.in.ua http://www.alcogol.kiev.ua
- andycr512, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Here is a fitting image.
http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trollji3.jpg - kraigdaemon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Wonderful! I was waiting for this for a very long time...
- stjack1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0mooninite - "I'm tired of hearing "omg MS gives DISOCUNTS!!!" when they have ZERO proof of such action."
That's the excuse I get every time I bring up linux to other people at HP. - drag, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I expect that it would be Suse, since that is what people will use for Desktops in large orginizations.
Remember that Novell is the one Linux company that does have very extensive desktop experiance. Ubuntu is still a very small company with little wide ranging (read: international) support ability. Redhat engineers have plenty of enterprise server and workstation knowledge, but don't know jack ***** about desktops and have since pretty much abandoned it. Debian is to hard for normal people to use. Fedora is a very volitile and unstable (read: changes a lot, not crashes a lot) which makes having long term supoport pretty much impossible.
But Novell has very existing world wide support options AND existing contracts, especially for educational, health, and government institutions. They were the first ones to get workgroup file management right. Their Novell Directory Services was the first thing that made large scale desktop management possible for businesses and Microsoft copied their design to make Active Directory. They have applications, scripts, and experiance with Windows to Linux migrations, and they also have certifications for running commonly used enterprise applications. (Redhat has more certs, but Suse isn't far behind.)
Remember that most of this is going to be targetted at business and other large contract users. Linux desktop is very good for places were you have the ability to support end users and have a controlled environment. Which means businesses and such things. And that is the current focus for Linux application and system developers, not home users.
The idea is that once people get used to seeing and using Linux at work they are going to want to use it at home also. This was the driving force for PCs originally and how Microsoft started their dominance of the home market (people needing to take work home and have PCs aviable for it) and it still seems very valid today.
And realy, if you think about it, Linux isnt' ready or easy enough to use for home markets. Also there isn't the support infrastructure for it.. ie you can't go to local mom&pop computer store and get somebody to format your harddrive and reinstall Linux like you can with Windows. Also your not going to get support from big places either for things like 'Geek Squad' and other such things.
HOWEVER, HP has actually had a strong relationship with Debian for their server hardware, so I wouldn't think that Ubuntu would be out of the question since HP already has experiance supporting that sort of thing. (Ubuntu being little more then Debian Unstable + customized gnome, heavily patched kernel, and other select packages)
In other words Ubuntu support is more likely to come from HP then Dell, but I still think that Suse is more likely. - mattboyslim, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0It's somewhat saddening to see that HP execs aren't even quite sure that they already have desktops preconfigured with Linux. On their web site, they've had it up for well over a year that you can get a desktop preconfigured with Mandrake Linux. I've not looked into it, because neither our organization or our customers use anything with Linux:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF02d/12454-12454-64287.html?jumpid=re_R295_prodexp/busproducts/computing/desktops&psn=desktops_workstations/desktop_pcs
Also note, that I did not attempt to configure a desktop or view a preconfigured desktop before posting the above information, but note the dx2200 product line (Genuine Windows XP Professional SP2, Genuine Windows XP Home SP2, or Mandrake Linux). - bpepple, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Why do you care if it comes with a rpm-based distro? It's easy enough to install whatever distro floats your fancy.
- thewump, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Probably Suse I would expect,
- drag, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0johnstar:
I don't know if it's the same thing with Dell, but with HP they have their 'recommended buys' or 'best deals' sort of thing that they do.
These are pre-configured pre-optioned things, probably the most popular device configurations. If at any time you go in and decide to customize it, even if you retain Windows, it becomes more expensive even if you end up choosing a very similar configuration.
The pre-loaded adware and such that Dell and HP is probably part of it, but another part is probably the cost of paying somebody to take a laptop off of the assembly line or in a box, wiping the drive to get rid of Windows.
To counter act the adware it would probably be pretty easy. Setup Ubuntu or CentOS or Suse were support costs are optional then demand a kick back from Redhat et al if customers purchase the support contracts for the version of Linux they are using. - digitarius, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1...How is this a good thing?
There's a valid argument that the amount of crapware shoveled onto a Winders install more than offsets the "Windows Tax".
....So we're going to pay more for a linux box? That's bloody brilliant. I'll just buy the cheaper windows box, then reformat.
...If I would ever actually buy a prebuilt computer anyway. - Bicep, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0F*** Yeah!!! It's about competition, and how it is really necessary for the highest quality products to be made.
Suck a fart M$!!
This is so awesome for the consumer!! - andycr512, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Before it was Dell..............
- LeeSoong, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0YES!
For heaven's sake - just offer SUSE and Red Hat as choices on the HP product page.
I haven't bought any HP machines lately because they insist on having Vista .
The HP laptop configuration page allows you to change the RAM, the Hard Drive, and other things - but Sadly - Windows was the only OS choice.
NO SALE.
It's time for HP to step up to the plate and offer More choice to their clients.
HP can even earn more revenue by consulting Linux solutions. - thedreaming1, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4I hope one day that Microsoft will disapear like the dodo or the dinosaurs and all that you will see is MacOSx and linux as far as the eye can see....
...and we will all have flying cars, and steak will cost a dollar, and robot wives will be cheap and effective! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5Dude,
No offense but some of us have been waging these stupid arguments for over 10 years. I've personally been on forums just like this "way" back in 95 arguing about this same crap. It's nothing new at all.
To be honest with all of you, I know i come off as a MS fanboy and for the most part I am (their my bread and butter), but I also like, install, and use various distro's of Linux. I do want to see it succeed, but I just don't see it being widely adopted as a lot of the issues that plagued it's acceptance back in 95 are still present today. - johnstar, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1killtherat:
the linux tax you speak of does not exist, your hard ware is subsidized by trialware/***** on your computer. Even though ms gets a piece of the pie you save about 50 bucks if I am not mistaken. - mooninite, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3"it would actually cost them millions"
Show us paper figures with dollar signs on them. Stop talking until you can.
I'm tired of hearing "omg MS gives DISOCUNTS!!!" when they have ZERO proof of such action. - stjack1, on 10/12/2007, -11/+3It'll never happen. MS gives OEM's a discount of Windows if they only sell Windows. If HP or Dell did ship linux, it would actually cost them millions.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -15/+2WTF are you talking about, Phocion??? Are you on MJ or something?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -17/+3If you think you will persuade someone to switch to Linux by using some kind of brute force article submission here on Digg, better think again. You will only piss people off...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -19/+2ZOMG! This on the frontpage AGAIN???1
Buried as dupe. Triple. Quadruple. Never mind, I've lost my counting.
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