What is Digg?340 Comments
- baalzebub, on 12/19/2007, -14/+114thanks for the info, i will be sure to stay away from HP brand laptops...
IBM Thinkpads are what i like anyway... - Salgat, on 12/19/2007, -10/+75Pretty pathetic when a bunch of independent programmers have to do what a major corporation can't do. My advice? Stay away from HP, not like the company has any actual substance, considering half their profits are in forcing people to pay ridiculous prices for printer ink.
- GoingPostal, on 12/19/2007, -5/+47I am not surprised. HP won't provide decent Vista drivers for a laptop labeled as 'Vista Capable'.
- Nougat, on 12/19/2007, -9/+49That's not "screw off," that's "we support what we offer preinstalled on the system." Companies cannot be expected to support every operating system ever created. They do not recommend installing Linux, because they do not want to assume the support costs that go along with that.
It's like bitching out GM because the aftermarket race ECM you installed doesn't work the way it's supposed to. Whether you've tracked down the reason to a manufacturer design issue or not, they're not going to redesign the thing to support any modification that might occur. They're probably going to advise you that modifying the engine control system with aftermarket parts may void your warranty.
Look, I like Linux as much as the next guy, but unless you're buying a Dell with Linux preinstalled, removing the OS that came on the machine and installing Linux is an *aftermarket modification.* Don't get pissy when the manufacturer isn't interested in it. - knuj, on 12/19/2007, -12/+45Got linux? HP will tell you to bugger off! I've had similar messages from "HP's Customer Care". At least Dell has seen the light and started to support linux better, not to mention Everex's eeepc, $$$ are the only thing that matters to HP, they just don't see how much business they are going to loose!
- supafuzz, on 12/19/2007, -0/+27Isn't Asus's eee pc?
- lostngone, on 12/19/2007, -1/+27So... Their web server told me to screw off with a 404 error.
- reparsed, on 12/19/2007, -6/+30Linux users tell HP "Dude I'm getting a Dell"
- Scyth3, on 12/19/2007, -5/+28My Asus U3s is doing quite nicely with linux :)
I'll stay away from HP now... thanks for the info - chipc, on 12/19/2007, -7/+30If you bought a consumer PC that comes with Windows, I don't know that the company is really obligated to assist you with an issue that only affects Linux. I don't work at HP or even own an HP; as a neutral observer, it seems like what they're saying is fair.
Why didn't you buy a computer that advertised Linux compatibility? Seems unfair to HP when the thing does exactly what they said it does on the box. - holotone, on 12/19/2007, -2/+23Considering the anti-trust case against HP for price-fixing $8,000/gallon ink for their printers that often report being empty @ 64% capacity, it would seem that money IS the only thing that matters to those asshats.
Dell / IBM / Asus FTW! - ZombieKiss, on 12/19/2007, -1/+18Isn't IBM Lenovo now?
- inactive, on 12/19/2007, -6/+21You seem to have mistaken "can't" with "won't bother to". HP has the right to put out their product as they see fit. They don't care to support Linux. If you don't like, don't buy their product.
It is as simple as that. - davidrools, on 12/19/2007, -1/+15i think you meant to say upgrade ;)
- AwakeningAZ, on 12/19/2007, -3/+15I sense a slight bias coming from the poster.
- FKnight, on 12/19/2007, -0/+11(*****, my session has not expired Digg. FIX THIS DAMMIT)
@BoneheadFarker:
If you purchase a Windows machine from Dell and are having a BIOS problem with Linux and you ask them for a BIOS update to fix it and they don't have one because Windows works flawlessly on the machine, you'll get the same answer.
Additionally, if I buy a Dell Linux based PC and ask them for a similar fix because Windows won't work, I'll get the same answer.
The author purchased what was advertised and sold as a fully working Windows machine and he wants the manufacturer to expend resources in an effort to help him treat it as if it was a whitebox. - red923, on 12/19/2007, -2/+13Actually, HP uses Linux within the corporation, just like a lot of other corporations... So yeah, I am surprised. I'm also surprised because I've seen Linux work on HP computers before...
- depro9, on 12/19/2007, -20/+31***** HP, may they burn in the fires hells of bankruptcy!
- TheCosmicFool, on 12/19/2007, -1/+12Lenovo Thinkpads. They stopped being IBM I think before the T60 lineup
That being said I have an R60 and like it - Drahkar, on 12/19/2007, -1/+11Its still a poor PR position to take. Especially since any error in a BIOS is one that should bre resolved even if it doesnt immediately effect windows users. It could in the future.
- Gavagai80, on 12/19/2007, -2/+12Or like complaining to Shell because their gas pumps only support Ford vehicles, not ones driven by millions of other people. In the real world Shell supports many types of cars. HP supports one operating system.
- noahhoward, on 12/19/2007, -3/+13Hmmm... are you aware that many if not all of the sites you visit on the web run Linux? Have fun telling yourself to screw off.
- BigManOnCampus, on 12/19/2007, -5/+15I've been running Ubuntu on my HP Pavillion zv5000 for nearly 2 years now. No problems.
I correct myself... For a while, wireless was difficult to get working (last two versions of Ubuntu I've had no problems)
Also, the SD/Ramcard reader doesn't work in Linux, but that's true for a lot of laptops. - WestonP, on 12/19/2007, -2/+11The new T61's are pretty nice!
- theaceoffire, on 12/19/2007, -1/+10*sigh*, yeah I really regret owning an HP. I will keep this in mind for my next one.
- nigh7dagger, on 12/19/2007, -4/+13Even if I did agree with you, I'd still bury you for having the grammar of a first grader.
- sqrt7744, on 12/19/2007, -0/+8it doesn't matter - the problem is kernel/bios related - i.e. distribution independent.
- Tippis, on 12/19/2007, -0/+8...same as with all platforms, really :-/
- jonms83, on 12/19/2007, -0/+8**sigh** you have an Asus (jelous)
- gilean783, on 12/19/2007, -4/+12Of course money is the only thing that matters to them. People don't start businesses out of boredom.
- Difranco1911, on 12/19/2007, -0/+8I run Ubuntu Gutsy on my HP Laptop (dv4100?) just fine without any issues at all. At work I get top notch support on all my servers, SANS, DLT Storage, and Fabric Backbone. There is a vast difference you recieve when buying from the consumer product lineup and the commercial product lines.
- oobuntu, on 12/19/2007, -1/+9He doesn't explain what High Resolution timers are - is it this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Precision_Event_ ...
- Gavagai80, on 12/19/2007, -0/+8If you've been running it 2 years, odds are it isn't within the time frame of the 1 year problem mentioned.
- davidrools, on 12/19/2007, -1/+8Too bad IBM doesn't make laptops anymore. They sold the Thinkpad name to Lenovo. They make some good quality notebooks but I haven't had any linux experience on one of them, just the joys and pains of linux on a couple of compaq (hp)'s
- hipnerd, on 12/19/2007, -0/+7I've had multiple SD readers. Never had a problem in Linux. In fact, Windows can;t seem to ever read my CF card correctly. I plug the same reader/card into my Ubuntu box and it pops up immediately.
The issue is with this particular SD reader, and the manufacturer's poor implementation of standards. - andycr512, on 12/19/2007, -0/+7When I was downgrading my HP laptop to XP, the only snag I ran into was getting sound to work. The driver they provided claimed I did not have an audio device installed. I called them, and this was pretty much what they said, paraphrasing:
"Hi, I just installed a retail copy of XP instead of Vista, which it came with. It works great, but the sound doesn't work and the drivers you have on your site for XP say I do not have a media device."
"You had Vista?"
"Yeah."
*typing*
"You installed XP?"
"..Yeah."
*typing, long sigh*
"OK sir, I will help you with the process of reinstalling Vista on this machine-"
"No, that would kind of ruin the point of installing XP, wouldn't it?
"Well, yes, but you need Vista to-"
"You used to sell these machines with XP, and you provide drivers for them. Why can't you guide me through installing them, since they don't seem to work as they should?"
*typing, sigh*
"... Well, what you are trying to do is impossible, at this point the only thing I can help you with is reinstalling the Windows Vista operating system that came with your computer."
"... Fine, have a good day."
"Thank you for calli-CLICK"
I got it working after a few minutes poking around in Device Manager... I thought about calling them back to tell them about how to do the impossible so as not to inconvenience future customers, but I doubt they would have listened anyway. (Hint: Let the installer fail, then go to the folder it extracted files to. In device manager, there will be an "Unknown device" or similar ambiguous name with a question mark in its icon. Select to manually update the drivers and select the INF file the driver extracted.) - tdgx, on 12/19/2007, -1/+8Buried as inaccurate for the following reasons:
1) HP never said "screw off" as the blogger implies it. They simply stated they support the pre-installed OS, and are not going to update the BIOS in order to fix one issue that effects a very small percentage of users of this particular BIOS.
2) ACPI is something that's been buggy as hell, especially with Linux, ever since it's inception. This is not HP specific by any stretch of the imagination.
3) HP has a track record of supporting Linux just fine, on their business and server machines, not the crappy, cheap Pavilion you bought on Black Friday for $199 after 17 rebates and an AOL subscription. Look at their business grade stuff and you'll find Linux pre-installed as an option, and they support it well with drivers, even BIOS upgrades you can run from within Linux, which is quite unusual.
And before the digg down patrol hits me, I'm an avid Linux user and advocate, not a HP fanboy, I'm simply realistic about things such as this. - inactive, on 12/19/2007, -0/+7The same has been true for their servers as well for quite some time. back when RHEL3 first came out, I was trying to load RH9 on their DL series servers. It would not install, even though the installer disk could see all the hardware. I spoke with one of their engineers that I had known for a long time and he told me that they crippled the BIOS so that if you try to install any linux other than RHEL on it, that it will purposely not see certain hardware such as the CD-ROM and the on-board nics. That really pissed me off but there was nothing I could do about it at the time.
Since then I have used only Dell servers and have not once ran into that problem. I can install RHEL, CentOS, Fedora or anything else I want on the Dell servers without any problems and without loading any additional drivers. I will never again use HP servers. In my opinion, that tactic of forcing specific distros is just wrong. - cesclaveria, on 12/19/2007, -1/+8you dont use Unix-like systems that much right?
Standard ways of communication between process, hardware, hosts, etc. are at the very core of the Linux design.
MS is the one that fails at standards: OOXML, IE, etc. - enginbeering, on 12/20/2007, -0/+7No, IBM isn't Lenovo now. Lenovo did, however, buy the Thinkpad division of IBM.
- sjbdallas, on 12/19/2007, -3/+10In HP's defense: The issue for them may be one of support. If we were to very generous and say that 10% of their overall userbase may want to install Linux AND require support then in order to provide support they'd have to make sure they had at least one if not two Linux trained support people available for calls. 3 shifts per day, 2 people per shift, plus a few extras for weekends and vacation coverages means they'd probably need 12 to 15 Linux trained people PLUS whatever they'd need for development support of apps and drivers. The linux guys might demand a premium too over the windows guys than can work from a basic script. Bottom line is that they'd probably be looking at around 1.5 million a year in payroll just to support linux. They've obviously weighed the cost vs the value and decided it's not worth it.
- BoneheadFarker, on 12/19/2007, -1/+7As long as you uninstall the Thinkpad software and apply the bios patch, that is. The T61 and T60p we have at work both needed some after-purchase work. I'm still waiting for some sort of patch for the memory parity errors that popup on my T60p when I undock it.
- mickcn, on 12/19/2007, -0/+6How did you get your wireless to work?
- BoneheadFarker, on 12/19/2007, -0/+6What you forget is that while HP dismisses Linux users, players like Dell are embracing them and reaping the rewards. It's never a good idea to dismiss any customers, no matter how insignificant they may seem now...
- akro, on 12/19/2007, -0/+6You know I'm an HP employee and it's true HP is completely focused the Business side of Linux. Heck all current business laptops support some form of Linux and you can even buy them with only Free DOS. Internally we can choose to run our desktops as Linux even. However I know I have seen time and time again employees questioning why we don't have a consumer market Linux desktop for North America ( I guess we do have it in other markets). HP does have a lot of passionate Open Source advocates, heck we even support Debian on server. My guess is they are working on something but it's a big company and getting products out the door aren't the easiest...
- noahhoward, on 12/19/2007, -3/+9Not really, it all depends on where you draw the line. What separates Microsoft from Redhat? Why is RedHat Linux a "homemade" operating system yet Windows isn't? Microsoft started the same way Linux started, a couple of guys with an idea. There is no difference. Sure, HP can make their own decisions, fine, but it is not the fault of Linux that HP doesn't support them.
- meltingrobot, on 12/19/2007, -3/+9My HP desktop runs linux just fine. Unfortunately, that has nothing to do with the fact that my CPU fan fell the ***** off last week!!! Damn you HP and your ***** mobo's! At least my cpu retention bracket I ordered online is finally arriving today.
- JohnFlux, on 12/19/2007, -3/+8What on earth is with this attitude?
If you sell hardware, then it should work without bugs. If there are serious bugs in the BIOS, then HP should indeed try to fix them. ACPI is a standard, and it seems the HP has broken the standard. Just because they managed to get it to work in Windows despite the bugs is not a good excuse. Why is this even being debated? - inactive, on 12/19/2007, -3/+8Yes. Thinkpads are not IBM anymore. I have an IBM branded T60 Stinkpad. It sucks. But I wouldn't have an HP either. Our whole department is moving to Macbook Pros at the beginning of the year.
- davidrools, on 12/19/2007, -1/+6a day of putting a computer together/installing the os and software is much more of a benefit to some than having months or years with a crappy and/or non-customized machine.
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