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57 Comments
- Prod_Deity, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14Naturally, just as my 2004.0 finished compiling. Damn you Gentoo!
- Patrick_, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Also, the people who say how Gentoo users are idiots using Gentoo to compile to get application speed increases... obviously don't know what they are talking about.
Compile the following C program with "gcc -o loop loop.c" (no optimizations), and then run "time ./loop". How long did it take to run?
Now, compile it with "gcc -O2 -o loop loop.c" (or -O3, and -funroll-loops, -pipe, etc), and then run "time ./loop". How long did it take to run? See what I mean? For regular apps, you are right, you'll probably not notice any difference (though you can make binaries much smaller with -Os), but with apps that are CPU/RAM intensive, the truth is, you could see some major speed increases. Don't talk about what you haven't researched...
--- Loop: ---
http://rafb.net/paste/results/Eie76Q59.html
With "gcc -o loop loop.c;time ./loop", it took 1.453 seconds to complete the loop. With "gcc -O2 -o loop loop.c;time ./loop", it was 3 times faster (.5 seconds). With "gcc -O2 -funroll-loops -o loop loop.c;time ./loop", it was 21.37 times faster, completing the loops in .068 seconds. That's a big difference, especially in a CPU/RAM intensive application with many loops and CPU intensive code.
So THERE! ;) - illynova, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Looks likes its time to do another
emerge --sync
emerge --update --deep world - fanboydcs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2umm in gentoo you just emerge -u world, no need to reinstall cause a new live cd came out, those live cds are just for installing the OS... Not for upgrading it. they mean NOTHING
- EruLabs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1exactly. thanks man
- inactive, on 07/28/2008, -0/+1agreed, they need to focus on easier CD-less installs (or at least better documentation and assisting scripts, etc) before a GUI installer.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1yay for gentoo
emerge --sync && emerge -eavDN world :) - Patrick_, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@martinus: It was a demonstration that, like I said, for CPU/RAM intensive apps, you can get some pretty substantial speed improvements. I also said that you probably won't with regular applications, like Firefox, etc. Also, yes, I did see speed improvements (big) when using optimizations and not with gzip, bzip2, and many other applications. Have _you_ tried it?
Truth is, unless you're coding in straight assembly, your compiler decides a lot of the speed of your program, as it has to convert your higher-level language code into assembly. If the compiler is not using optimizations, for CPU/RAM intensive code, you're probably not getting all the performance you could be getting if you used optimizations.
Now, with some programs, it's the opposite... using optimizations could make them _slower_. That's why it's always good to test different flags, though that would be annoying with portage, I do it for my programs.
If you don't really care about speed, turn off optimizations in your make.conf. I can tell you, though, that most Gentoo users don't do it for the extra speed, but because they like the awesome control Gentoo gives (as I do), and the customizability. No other distro that I've seen can do it as well as Gentoo. - inactive, on 07/28/2008, -0/+1What is the advantage of a stage 1 or 2?
I realize that your compiling everything "correctly" from the get-go, so there's less recompiling, but doing an emerge -uND world first thing on a bare-minimum install goes pretty quick. Isn't that going to be the only difference? - martinus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@patrick, where can I emerge loop? I need this uber useful program! Can you name any application that really got substantial faster? You do not see any improvements in applications like mplayer, lame, firefox, gzip, bzip2, etc. Most apps that need to be fast are highly optimized anyway, and in most about all other applications the bottleneck is the harddisk, the X server, or bad coding.
- slipaway172, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1im a gentoo noob and will install it later tonight ...cant wait since the install will be very easy.
- Zeksers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What that emerge -auDvN will change? It will just update packages to the newer versions as ussualy. You still have to change your profile to the newer. See http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-upgrading.xml for more information. (It hasn't included upgrading to 2006.0 info but it's the same as for 2005.1 i think.)
- Nerevar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've tried my fair share of Gentoo. I even went so far as doing a stage 1 install (which I'm now convinced is a complete waste of time). One thing I found extremely annoying was the developers tendency to be very conservative when unmasking packages. My favorite example is with KDE. The "latest" unmasked version is 3.4.3, where many other linux distros have already made the switch to 3.5 and 3.5.1. On top of that, I think compiling almost everything from source is pretty unnecessary.
As of now, Ubuntu is still my favorite distro, and I'm excitedly awaiting the release of Dapper. - dbr_onix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Great, now to waste 3 weeks chaning settings and compiling for something that would give the same end result as chaning a few options in a normal Linux install
I really don't see the point in it in most cases.. For servers where you want the server program running, and thats it, I can understand, but why would you want to wait how-ever-many-hours for X to compile, then all the other programs your going to use etc, when you could get it precompiled, and it'd still work fine, and I'd be shocked if you see a noticable increase in performance in most things..
But if you want to be a leet-ist, Gentoo is the greatest...
- Ben - krazykit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Wow, that's odd. My Gentoo install works just fine, and I'm not using any insane flags, either. Must just be a bunch of Debian users trolling again.
- nessup, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0wow... when the installer for ppc is out, I might just install my first Linux :)
- Khlept0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0GLIS is the best part of this.
- diecastbeatdown, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I use gentoo, gentoo is great. but jumping into their releases can sometimes prove to be problematic. thankfully they included gcc 3.4 on this release.
- burke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Must just be a bunch of Debian users trolling again."
...funny you would say that ;)
The thing about Gentoo is that I don't have time to compile everything. If there was an option, like in FreeBSD to install from either a .ebuild or a .deb (ports / packages), I would switch in a heartbeat, but until then, I'll stick with my precompiled binaries. - dipswitch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Actually, afaik you don't have to compile this, because it's a release. Not compiling OOo, KDE, etc. saves more time then using a self compiled build with -O99 -funroll-all-loops and whatever crazy flags Gentoo users use.
- hollerith, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0-usebinpkgonly flag! you don't have to use the source - binary package ebuilds are always available
(but where's the fun in that?) - nxusername, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Gentoo is the most business read Linux server I have ever used. Also, the documentation, forums and support community are fantastic! Thanks Gentoo.
- NuttyAvatar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0One thing that bothers me with distros like RH, SuSE and the rest, is the memory usage. I tried SuSE recently and it was using up almost everything out of the 1 G I have. With Gentoo, with GNOME and the everything I need running, it tops out at 200k!! I love it. It took me a day to compile GNOME. Thats about it!
- bluemonki, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You totally don't just want to : emerge -u world. Try something like emerge -pv world and emerge the packages slowly, that way it won't all go totally pete-tong.
But you're right about the release, Gentoo doesn't really do releases anyhow portage keeps us all up to date :D - chozsun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I certainly don't mind referring to the handbook for installs. However, I am deeply disturbed that they removed instructions for installing stages 1 or 2. Has anyone rewritten the instructions to do the other stages.
- hollywoodcole, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Digg Just because I use Gentoo!
Every real Gentoo user knows the new install disk doesn't matter! - Flankk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"If there was an option, like in FreeBSD to install from either a .ebuild or a .deb (ports / packages), I would switch in a heartbeat, but until then, I'll stick with my precompiled binaries."
Gentoo _has_ binary packages. It even bundles a package cd. Elitist Debianites can hold their tongues until the release of Buzz Lightyear in the next millenia.
At least Gentoo has a release cycle that passes before the developers do. - visualclue, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The biggest change between 2006.0 and the 2005 series that I can see is that it now uses GCC 3.4.4 by default, which is the one change that will make "upgrading" a 2005 series machine more complex (and yes, sadly, time consuming), thank simply running emerge --deep --newuse --update world because there is a compatibility issue between these two versions. That being said, it's not essential that you upgrade GCC, but if you do want to, be prepared to recompile every package on your system at least once.
Here's the official Gentoo guide for making the transition:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gcc-upgrading.xml#upgrade-3.3-to-3.4 - faxxy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1how does this compare to ubuntu?
- kalisphoenix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"What's a Linux O?"
Well, it starts with a flush in your cheeks and your nether regions. Your pelvis starts to thrust involuntarily. If you're a man, your prostate will throb happily. If you're a woman, you will be briefly distracted from shopping. You might even gasp, pant, or call out in ecstasy -- common phrases include "OMG," "3D-accelerated X.Org," and "I got Samba configured! Holy *****!" Generally followed by running into the bathroom for a handtowel to avoid creating a wet spot. - Patrick_, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Naturally, just as my 2004.0 finished compiling. Damn you Gentoo!"
Those who said this... no need to worry. Just use portage. The new CD releases are just updated packages on the CD-ROM, and some CD-ROM bug fixes. Simply run "emerge --sync" (or "emerge emerge-delta-webrsync;emerge-delta-webrsync"), and then "emerge -uD world", and you're "updated to "Gentoo 2006", which, again, is essentially just updated packages.
Anyways, Gentoo is my favorite distro, the only one I will personally use. I'm a coder, and I just have _so_ much control with Gentoo. Thank you Gentoo dev-team!
digg++ - robbyt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0jeeze wish i had this a couple weeks ago! i had to build my own install cd because of the 3ware 9550sx card in my machine...
- milkfilk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I've run lots of Linux(s) as a pro *nix admin, gentoo is what I run at home. It's hard to install. But with complexity comes power, with power comes complexity. Gentoo is an advanced distro. No rpms to deal with, yes the compile time is long but you have the option of tweaking every ounce of performance out of an app instead of compiling for 386 or 686. Updating your system with one command is really great.
I'd rather listen to people who have tried and disliked rather than never at all.
The GUI provides an easier way to install but it's still not 'nub' friendly. Just read the docs. You'll learn a lot, even about other distros. - Warmboot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1The advantage of Gentoo over other distributions is that I'm not stuck with their decisions in terms of features or applications that have been compiled in. With Redhat, I found I was missing substantial functionality from Konqueror because they wouldn't compile in the MP3 stuff. I also ended up with a ton of apps on there that I didn't want or need.
When I compile an application like amoroK, it's up to me whether I'm going to use MySQL integration or not. I like that. And it's less time consuming than linux from scratch and more up-to-date than debian. - kalisphoenix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I like Gentoo... slightly more than Debian, and I think it's evenly-tied with FreeBSD. I have high hopes for Gentoo OS X and Gentoo/FreeBSD.
- milkfilk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0php takes a while to compile. I ran a distcc setup a while back, seemed to help a little but I had only slow boxes to share the load with. I'm always looking for 'build server' experiences ... like people who have a respository of always updated binaries, but I believe you need an array of similar hardware for that.
- Patrick_, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@martinus: Those are the same reasons I use it. Also, because portage is excellent, and probably the most stable update system I've ever used... and there are so many packages.
It's true, choosing a proper kernel (I use the ck-patchset, also) and filesystem, etc, is probably more important. Also, how can you actually say I'm a Gentoo ricer? Everything I said was opposite to that of a Gentoo ricer... I dont obsess over CFLAGS, I'm just saying that for CPU intensive applications, they _do_ provide a benefit. I also said that for regular applications, they honestly _don't_
I've been using Gentoo for about 2 1/2 years now... I've never even _thought_ about trying another distro. It's just too awesome. - martinus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@patrick, I use gentoo exclusively for about 2 years now, and it will probably stay that way for the next years. But not because it is faster (which it is not), but because I know how to configure it and I do not want to relearn that. The other reason is emerge, which is excellent and keeps getting better.
I for one would not tune the CFLAGS, I have a sold CFLAGS="-O2 -march=pentium3 -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe" setting. IMHO it is much more important to choosing a proper kernel (I use ck-sources sources), proper filesystem, etc.
Please do not become a Gentoo ricer! ;-)
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-309752.html - Anchoret, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Sorry, but I'm not going to trust an OS from people who don't even know the difference between a cow and a bull.
- martinus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0emerge sync && emerge -auvD --newuse world
- CptnObvious, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"any new screens from this version of gentoo?" -xodex
Screenshots of gentoo are pretty pointless since when you install the package it is default. So it would just be default KDE or Gnome etc.
Anyways I have been using Gentoo for a long time now, I think since september (I have used it before then and decided to try some other distros but came back to Gentoo). I love Portage and I love how much I can optimize, customize, and hack everything on it. Gentoo has become my favorite distro and I doubt I'll leave it any time soon. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Dugg simply because it's a Linux story that does not include the word "Ubuntu" in it.
- sonic767, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Frankly, I'm more than a little bit dissapointed that we're up to 13 comments and no-one has made reference to the "Gentoo is for Rice Boys" page...
- EruLabs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I agree, last night i finished my 2005.1 install :(
Still, '06 is running smooth on my server already. :) - FilCab, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"even the big packages take 20 mins max."
Right... For me and some friends, firefox takes like... 30 min... I think Xorg is less than that :P - BenStockwell, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"The thing about Gentoo is that I don't have time to compile everything. If there was an option, like in FreeBSD to install from either a .ebuild or a .deb (ports / packages), I would switch in a heartbeat, but until then, I'll stick with my precompiled binaries."
So what is the point of using Gentoo if everything you use is precompiled? I thought the whole idea behind Gentoo was to optimize every single thing for your hardware. That kind of defeats the purpose. - Sh|fty, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0emerge -eDN world time :(
- regeya, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0What's a Linux O?
- madcat87, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I love gentoo ,but this GUI installer is just not gentooish :( Who will need LiveCD with gui.I Hope they will keep the MinimalCd ,this is the best way of installing gentoo.
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