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46 Comments
- TGMD, on 10/10/2007, -0/+34What we really need is to get OEM support
- VinceNoir, on 10/10/2007, -4/+31While this is really great news, it should be noted that it won't cure all that prevents mainstream adoption of Linux. Why? Because I would say that Linux already supports at least 98% of all hardware on the market in some fashion. In many cases it supports more hardware than Windows does out of the box. Keep in mind that I'm not just talking about the free kernel drivers that are part of the kernel, but I'm also including NDIS Wrapper for WiFi (which works amazingly well if you are very well versed in Linux), the proprietary drivers from NVidia and ATI, both the SANE project and the proprietary VUEScan product for scanners, the various printer drivers from the CUPS and Gimpprint projects, etc...
Now what you'll notice about the various drivers I listed, are that they aren't all kernel related. In fact nearly all of them aren't connected with the actual Linux kernel drivers at all. This is one of the main problems with "drivers" in Linux: the perception of drivers from an end-user standpoint. It's no different in Windows, but it's highly obscured so that to the unaware, a driver is already built into the OS (which is only true to a point exactly as it is in Linux) or it's just something you install with a set up wizard. For most of the best distributions where nearly all useful kernel modules are built (for those are the real drivers and what Novell is actually dedicated to working on) more hardware will work out of the box than with a standard Windows install. But, when it comes to things like scanners and printers or video cards, none of that has anything to do with the Linux kernel modules. Instead we're talking about support software that runs in user space. CUPS and SANE don't live in kernel space. So implementation of scanners and printers is not going to be aided by this effort. And if Linux distributors know what's good for them, they won't go down the dubious path of having video drivers in the kernel as deeply as MS did (they made that change in Windows 2000 to gain performance at the cost of stability).
So I think that beyond this admirable effort to add more drivers to the Linux kernel, what is also needed is a universal "set up wizard" for "drivers" of various types. Something that is cross-distribution and written to work with GTK and QT. That will make mainstream adoption of Linux easier for people who really don't "get" Linux "drivers".
Here's a short list of what I've EASILY gotten to work in Linux with various driver approaches:
-Echo Layla 20 (Professional audio 8 channel in/out + MIDI in/out rackmount system): Using ALSA drivers
-Hauppaugue PVR-250 video capture/tuner card: Using the ivtv.org drivers that are now in the mainline kernel
-Broadcom WiFi chip in one of my old laptops: Using the NDIS Wrapper and some Windows drivers (devastatingly simple to set up if you know how to build your own kernel and compile NDIS Wrapper from source)
-Intel WiFi chip in the laptop I'm typing this on: Using the ipw2200 drivers in the mainline Linux kernel
-Several scanners from Umax using the SANE project drivers
-Epson and HP printers from ink jet, to photo printers to heavy duty laser printers: CUPS and Gimpprint
-Bluetooth and SD interfaces again on this very laptop...
-Every NVIdia card I've ever bought as well as a few of the ATI ones I mistakenly purchased in my old Windows days
-Every USB thumb drive I've ever tried (I'm aware there are some that don't work)
So it's pretty obvious that you can run nearly any hardware in Linux with only a few exceptions these days. Getting it to work is not so much a problem of drivers, but more a problem of getting the drivers set up easily. There is no decent driver management layer that obscures the driver from the user as there is in Windows. Of course, I agree with Linus when he says that a "device manager" is a stupid idea. The devices should "just work" when plugged in. HAL and DBUS are helping with that. What I hope is that the developers will see that a driver management subsystem should take more than just kernel drivers into account. I'd say we're getting there... - falloutsyndrome, on 10/10/2007, -0/+26Drivers = Future OEM support, they're to lazy to do the work. Less work = more profit.
- schestowitz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+22Dell is helping a bit in that area.
- Scruffydan, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15because the lack of a finalized standard hasn't stopped pre N and draft N devices from being sold
- mheath, on 10/10/2007, -3/+16Wake me up when OS X's drivers are on par with Linux so that I can actually run it on a computer that doesn't have an Apple logo. Until then, OS X is the #2 desktop Unix.
- geminitojanus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11How about people stop buying Creative's products because apparently they're too moronic to write a driver or release a spec for someone else to write a driver?
- spyd3rweb, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11Heres what i think of Creative's Linux XFI support http://gallery.spyderweb.org/stuff/2007_04_15-00_2 ...
- daftman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11go watch Barney or something that worthwhile to your 2-second attention span
- asdfuiop, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11"Linux needs drivers more than Mars will ever need women."
Here's your +1 Mace of Geekdom - Daisuke, on 10/10/2007, -2/+12wow.
1. linux is not a "user interface" of any sort, or even for the most part an os - it's a kernel.
2. simply try to tell me that os x supports the amount of hardware at the kernel level, or even out of the box, that the linux kernel does. (hint: it doesn't.) - realityiswhere, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11Almost as good as the article you're commenting on, well done!
- GeekSwag, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11Holy *****, dude...you responded to some guy's comment 5 nests deep by spawning a new thread. The reply button isn't that hard to miss, those other 4 people didn't...
- heepajunk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9There's only a handful of compatibility issues that keep me on a proprietary OS. I fully welcome more drivers
- dentarthurdent1, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11wireless-n, please!!!!
- hadak, on 10/10/2007, -4/+11We don't have a finalized standard, so why even have drivers?
- oobuntu, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7I note that Novell are paying this guy to work on this full time - thanks Novell!
- lengau, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Okay. As soon as I've built a time machine, I'll go back to the day OS X was released and wake you up.
Both Linux and OS X have amazing hardware support, and both have drivers for over 90% of the hardware on the market. However, I'd have to say that Linux's hardware support is superior. - schotty, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4True, but at least it was not a numbnutted comment :D I got a chuckle, and it is true what he says. Doing things right isnt hard, you just gotta think first.
- spyd3rweb, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4oh it was.
- oobuntu, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Unfortunately when the kernel is upgraded via an apt-get upgrade then you have to fiddle with ndiswrapper all over again - major pain in the butt!
- srg13, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4"Using the NDIS Wrapper and some Windows drivers (devastatingly simple to set up if you know how to build your own kernel and compile NDIS Wrapper from source)"
I never needed to compile anything to get NDISwrapper working with my card. In fact, in three years of using Linux, I've never needed to compile the kernel or anything.
Just thought I'd add that I was pleasantly surprised when I installed Gutsy today and my wireless card just worked out of the box. Previously, I had to use NDISwrapper just to get WPA support. - HonoredMule, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3It's simple so long as finding out exactly what revision of what driver version of what wireless chip is needed by ndiswrapper is also simple.
- VinceNoir, on 10/10/2007, -4/+6Hey fkr3:
Shut up worthless ass. Just because you can't wire your own house for gigabit doesn't mean the rest of us have to be held captive to your lower standards. I have four cat 6 drops per room in my house because it's convenient. This is how I shuttle live video, audio and centralized storage throughout my house. Apparently someone like you wouldn't know anything about that though. If you can't deal with it, then educate yourself and increase your value by learning how to wire your house. I did and it pays off for me, my wife and my kid. I have virtual machines and centralized storage for all of it. I'm not held captive by slow speeds unless I want the convenience of wireless. Get over yourself. You're not fooling anyone about your shortcomings (in your head, in your wallet or in your pants). - xspinkickx, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5how about creative x-fi drivers that dont use gcc 3, possibly 32bit version, but this is GREAT news, glad to hear companies are taking up this free service.
- init100, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2@fkr3
New apartment buildings are usually pre-wired with Ethernet cables, at least where I live. Add a gigabit Ethernet switch in the switch rack and you are done. - VinceNoir, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2If Digg's scripting didn't suck so bad, I wouldn't keep getting "your session has timed out please refresh" every time I tried to respond to that *****. I eventually had no choice but to start a new thread. I tried replying to him 10 times even after purging my cache and even exiting the browser and coming back. So don't blame me. Blame Digg's lame scripting.
- HonoredMule, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Where are you getting the idea that this driver project is only for kernel drivers? I don't see that being expressed in the article.
- nickdngr, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2http://us.creative.com/support/downloads/download. ...
but you're not looking for a 64-bit version...and it's a beta...but, nonetheless, it's a start. - DustyinBFE, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3HAHA! I was thinking to myself as I read that ..... Did I miss something? Or did he just go off on a rant for no reason?
- HonoredMule, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Well as long as this is a worthless spam comment that'll be buried, I've always wondered how many duplicate comments I can get. TESTING...
- lengau, on 10/10/2007, -4/+5300Mb/s? Lame. I won't accept anything less that Gigabit Ethernet.
Seriously, my whole house is wired for Gigabit Ethernet. 802.11n seems slow when I'm transferring my video now :( - HonoredMule, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Well as long as this is a worthless spam comment that'll be buried, I've always wondered how many duplicate comments I can get. TESTING...
- 21chrisp, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1And there won't be one anytime soon... you pretty much have to push it out as it is and have enough users to force it as a standard.
- HonoredMule, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Here's a crazy thought. If there's a cap on how many submissions will be accepted (nearly) at once, why on earth is that cap three and not one?
O.0 - sneakerelph, on 10/10/2007, -4/+5"Using the NDIS Wrapper and some Windows drivers (devastatingly simple to set up if you know how to build your own kernel and compile NDIS Wrapper from source)"
ok, i'm all for how simple Linux can be. But saying that is like saying that flying to mars is simple as long as you know how to run a space shuttle and have a good plan. - HonoredMule, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Well as long as this is a worthless spam comment that'll be buried, I've always wondered how many duplicate comments I can get. TESTING...
aw, capped at 3 it seems. - canthraxp, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2I was amazed by bulletproof's wide selection of presets for different screens. Hope to see more of this progress, Digged!
- antdude, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Ha, how did that happen? I hope it wasn't on purpose.
- LinuxKitty, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1The only time I ever had driver issues was a few years ago when I had ISDN still. I guess I've been fairly lucky with my hardware, though I deliberately do stay away from the common sore spots like WLAN, and usually check on compatibility before buying a new piece of hardware. Kudos to Novell for the initiative. I still won't use SuSE, but I'm glad Linux has the backing of some heavy weights.
- Magadass, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2What? I thought you diggers hated Novell? When I touted openSuse as an awesome distro I got buried quicker than *****...
- flood8496, on 10/19/2007, -0/+0Selling the beast on eBay would have yielded better results. :)
- supermanred, on 10/10/2007, -6/+2I've had Wireless N on my Macbook (OS X) for quite a while now and it pretty much makes it almost silly to take the time and plug the thing in anymore. Very fast, that's why.
- supermanred, on 10/10/2007, -19/+3Wake me up when Linux drivers are on par with OS X's. Until then, Linux is the #2 Unix UI/OS.
- supermanred, on 10/10/2007, -20/+1I just buried you without reading. If you're going to type that much, link to it instead. This is the "comment" area not the "long winded speech" area.
- fkr3, on 10/10/2007, -25/+2Wow, your whole house. What will you do when you're too old to live with your parents?
You'll move out, and not have a house wired with gigabit ethernet, and you'll get a job where the closest thing you come to gigabit ethernet is scanning the barcode when someone buys a fast router.
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