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51 Comments
- redhatcat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+33If you do switch distros, then you'll find Fedora is a easy transition from Suse. You could use CentOS for critical systems that require good stability.
Both are part of the Red Hat category of Linux, which mean the same/similar style of start-up scripts, configuration, and directory structure. Both also use RPMs, although you will not have YAST. Instead, you use yum, which is easy to learn, if you haven't tried it.
Debian isn't bad, but you will have to get use to new configuration scheme, directory structure, and packaging system. It's not a difficult task, but things will feel a bit awkward until you get settled.
The choice is ultimately yours though. *smile* - Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14I still don't understand how a GPL'ed operating system/environment can be not-free. Surely something is wrong.
- smb3d, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Maybe he's going to take it hostage and request paypal donations to free it.
- ericpp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13hrmm... looks like a cybersquatter to me:
Registrant:
Keyword Marketing, Inc. (FREESUSE-COM-DOM)
P.O. Box 556
Main Street
Charlestown, West Indies
KN
+852.30164984
+852.30164984
message@keywordmarketinginc.com
Domain Name: FREESUSE.COM
Status: PROTECTED
From http://www.keywordmarketinginc.com/ :
'Keyword Marketing specializes in using 100% automated linguistic software to register "pre-owned" domain names that are deleted or not renewed by the original owner and have good keyword value.' - ISVDamocles, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16It's still controlled by Novell.
Whether or not there's an issue, it will be perceived as tainted.
(Also, openSuSE makes it rather easy to use closed-source components like Flash, Java, the nVidia drivers, Windows fonts, etc. and just by *that* fails the open definition for some [not mine personally, though; these are just applications that run on top of the OS]) - greggish, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7FreeSuse.com was a wasted domain reg. Novell owns the trademark on Suse. They can fork it, but they can't call it 'anything' Suse.
- bigtomrodney, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I agree. The first thing all of these complainers do is install java, flash and proprietary drivers anyway. This whole movement is being led by a couple of loudmouth troublemakers. Most of the forums on the net seem cautious but none are turning to this level on unsupported and unjustified zealotry. Novell have done a lot for Linux since they bought SuSE. In my opinion they've done a lot more than Red Hat.
Last year it was Red Hat that was the Microsoft of OSS, now Novell are in the spotlight Red Hat are the saviours because they resist an offer from Microsoft. This is just purile. - cquilliam, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Cheers. Linux users need a villian, weather it be SCO, Microsoft or Novell. I own SUSE 10.1 and love it, and I will most likely buy 10.2, etc. People need to relax and see where the pieces fall before they get so worked up over the whole thing.
- metalhead3767, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Even if they do make a free version they're just going to copy it, change the logo to say free, and declare that it is free. Novell will still be putting in all the work. Personally I don't care who Novell has alliances with. As long as the software works and it works well.
- psylence, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It's a squatter if anything.
- zoxed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5> I still don't understand how a GPL'ed operating system/environment can be not-free. Surely something is wrong.
I understand your question differently to ohgr.
If you mean "Why would you need to fork openSUSE even though it is open/free/GPL etc then I *suspect* the problem is that Novell hold commit rights over the openSUSE repository. So whilst you are free to get and copy openSUSE, you are not free to *put back* changes. Hence you have to fork and then continue under community control. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I hate to try to hijack this but I've been wanting to switch to a Linux distribution and just this past hour or so I've been researching ones that I've liked. I've finally decided on OpenSUSE.
Now that I've chosen a distro now I have to make the crucial decision of choosing GNOME or KDE. What is the difference? What do you guys prefer? - tarpit, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6What about opensuse. Opensuse is like as Fedora is to SLED. Opensuse only has Open source packages.
- redwire, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I always use the cake analogy.
Walk into a bakery and see 2 cakes. The first is a nice sponge and its good in its own way, and its free, even includes the recipe.
The second is a sponge too but it costs $1, but it comes with loads of icing, and in addition to the recipe the baker will take the time to answer any of the quirks of baking it, decorating or doing what you want with it.
They are both cakes and they are both delicious, one just has a bit of added value so the guy that made it can get something back directly for his extra effort but you can certainly get either.
I want some cake now. - standsolid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4seriously this was my first thought, and now confirmed, when i saw this "story".
nice investigating - Carino, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Thanks for the tip, I was planning on switching to Fedora from SUSE and wasn't sure how the transition would be, but I have been doing some reasearch and it seems the best route to take.
- rsriniv, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3KDE is by far and away my preference. It's layout and looks are more intuitive than GNOME.
- dkoon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6yup, better than hearing you fanboys "righteous" ***** every other post.
- raid517, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Anyway I'm all for rehabilitating Novel. And I do recognize the many valuable contributions that they have made to the Linux community. However I cannot help but feel that this deal is bad for the Linux community as a whole. It is nothing short of an attempt by Microsoft to wrest control of Linux from the Linux community - through the deployment of FUD. I say that an effort should be made with the GPL 3 exactly in order to invalidate FUD like this anyway. The opportunity exists in this light to make the deal pretty much worthless to Microsoft as a means of scaring users and customers away from Linux I definitely think that the authors of the GPL3 should us it.
- stoffe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2GNOME = good defaults, little (possible) to tweak
KDE = tweak anything, settings overload
Both has its points. I used to love KDE and the way I could set everything up the way I wanted it, but later I fell in love with GNOMEs philosophy of great defaults instead. It really depends on what you want to do... if you want an OS to have fun and play with, KDE might be more fun, but if you need to get work done, GNOME might be more appropriate.
Of course, if you have the time to spare, try them both. For Ubuntu, all you need to do is install the normal (GNOME) one, then install "kubuntu-desktop" and suddenly you can choose between the two at the login, with all data and files shared. - cynicist, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6I guess Gnome must be tainted too, considering some of their developers work for Novell....
Seriously though, cut this ***** out. Novell hasn't done anything wrong, in fact they've contributed a lot to our community. And they will keep doing that. (anything that comes out of the deal will be gpl'd they say) Wait until they actually do something evil before criticizing them like this. - Hungryhaney, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@CuCullin
What is wrong with Mono? It is an FOSS implementation of the .NET Framework. Mono, just as Linux will, if they infringe ANYWHERE, will clean the affected portion and move on. It's not like writing a Mono application will enslave you to Microsoft.
Now, if you hate Mono because Microsoft came up with the Framework first, then consider this. .NET is being used more and more in the industry today, replacing old VB6 and VSC++ code. Moving from the MFC to the .NET Framework. And when people want to switch from .NET to Mono the step will be a lot smaller and less painful than when they move from VB6 or the MFC crutch. I can only see Mono as something positive.
Whether or not you like Novell or Microsoft or FOSS, at least don't hate without reason. - 10scjed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It'll be interesting to see who registered this, the day before the announcement....insider info?
- metalhead3767, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yep. Even if Opensuse is MS's buddy it is still arguably the easiest distro to use. I prefer KDE. If you are used to windows you will too. Just install both and see what one you like more.
- bigtomrodney, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@ISVDamocles
No they don't. SUSE removed all questionable packages and no longer provide repositories for nVidia drivers. No madwifi support, no ndiswrapper support and if you do load them you get a kernel taint message every time. Any proprietary software/drivers are available on a seperate disk and fully isolated from the distro. - Hungryhaney, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@SuperNick
I'd say install them both, and try them out. I use both, to be honest, just because I like the fact that "Linux" doesn't have one and only one DE.
After playing around with one or the other, you will probably find one that you have a chemistry with, or, as in my case, use 'em all. - TheGentleman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Dude! Research first, questions later... and yes, research takes more than one hour. A hint: google for "kde vs gnome".
- arielmaidana, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I suggest you to download the Kubuntu and Ubuntu desktop CDs. They can be used as live CDs (no need to install) and you can test KDE and GNOME and compare. Kubuntu features KDE, Ubuntu features GNOME.
- Ravatar, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3the end is nigh! the end is nigh!
Novell has done NOTHING to "crap all over" SuSe at this point. How about instead of being a doomsayer, you contribute something necessary and productive for once?
Novell has the freedom to do whatever they wish, so long as it complies with the few requirements stated in the GPL. Thus far, Novell has done nothing to warrant them from "revoking that licence". Freedom is a bitch, eh? - sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Basically everything Novell touches turns to crap. I was saying this before the deal. Witness the once great Netware, the once great Word Perfect, etc. When Novell acquired SUSE, my thoughts were "There goes SUSE...circling the same drain Word Perfect"
The problem with the deal is not that it's with M$. If gnu/linux and Windows can actually be made to work better together as a result, this is a good thing. The problem is now that foul mouthed chair thrower Balmer now is claiming that somehow "linux" infringes on MS IP. The in the deal the two companies promised to not sue each other's sustomers in respect to this, and a number of us were wondering "What the hell does this mean?" There was some FUD that Microsoft will now control the source code for the linux kernel and that was nonsense from the start. But the specter of Microsoft raising some SCO lawsuits has made itself appearant. I do apologize for any appearance of being a bit pissed at both Novell and MS. However, on some level, I think Balmer might have just being spreading FUD, otherwise why did he nor Microsoft as a whole state what IP was supposedly being violated.
Some Novell defenders have raised the issue of hypocrisy. You pointed out that people complaining of the deal use properietory drivers, such as the Nvidia driver. Unfortunately for you, this is not hypocrisy and has nothing to do with it at all. Tell me how my legal use of an Nvidia driver, downloaded legally from the Nvidia website, has anything at all to do with Novell opening the door for MS to claim that gnu/linux violates MS IP? Ah, nothing at all. Evidently, you were looking for a way to bash the open source community.
leaveearthnow makes some good points that there were reasons to not use SUSE before the deal, but is not completely correct.
"Free ISO downloads. SuSE discontinued free ISO downloads with their 7.0 series. If you wanted to use SuSE, you had only one free option -- to install from FTP. FTP install was not made available until well after a new release. Not correct. I downloaded 9.2 for free legally.
"Non-free Qt. SuSE had always been closely tied with KDE -- and the relationship between the two started during the time that KDE was built with the proprietary Qt toolkit." QT has been free for a long time now. - leaveearthnow, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2First of all, it is Novell not Novel.
Secondly, Novell has done a lot to enhance SUSE Linux. For Linux newbies (and those mindlessly jumping on the "bash Novell" bandwagon), the original SuSE Linux was NOT free and there were some good reasons NOT to use it. After Novell acquired SUSE, here are some of the things that were done to "crap" on the distribution:
* YaST was GPLed. Previously, it was not Free Software and provided a convenient way for SuSE to taint the distribution and prevent others from redistributing it.
* Open development. Previous to the Novell acquisition, SuSE was one of the few major distributions to maintain a closed development process. Mandrake (now Mandriva), Red Hat/Fedora, Debian, Slackware all had open development. SuSE did not.
* Free ISO downloads. SuSE discontinued free ISO downloads with their 7.0 series. If you wanted to use SuSE, you had only one free option -- to install from FTP. FTP install was not made available until well after a new release.
* Non-free Qt. SuSE had always been closely tied with KDE -- and the relationship between the two started during the time that KDE was built with the proprietary Qt toolkit. Debian and Red Hat (and Miguel de Icaza -- now a Novell vice president) stood on the side of Free Software and helped to create GNOME. GNOME was build from an entirely free toolkit and put pressure on Trolltech (the creators of Qt) to license parts of Qt under the GPL. As they did with YaST, SuSE Linux sided with functionality over the principles of Free Software.
* Better GNOME support. Through its acquisition of Ximian, Novell gained the expertise of Miguel de Icaza and Nat Friedman, two pillars of the GNOME community (yes, the same GNOME desktop that now graces Ubuntu Linux). Prior to Novell, SuSE's implementation of GNOME was inferior. Now, it shines with Ubuntu as one of the best GNOME implementations. Novell is the leading contributor to both KDE and GNOME projects.
* AppArmor. Novell acquired the AppArmor product, which is a much more user friendly alternative to Red Hat's SELinux. After Novell's acquisition, AppArmor was GPLed and integrated into SUSE Linux.
* Other enhancements: XGL/Compiz, Slab menu, Mono, OpenOffice.org, etc.
Having said all this, I will add that I am concerned about the Novell/Microsoft agreement -- but only from the patent aspect. And, I'm only concerned about the patent angle from a philosophical standpoint. It would be suicide for Microsoft to attack its own customers (and potential customers). It would fare a terrible fate if it attacked other Linux distributions as well. Microsoft will not attack Mono, Samba, or OpenOffice.org, as some are claiming. This would be foolish. And, OIN (which Novell is a member of) is prepared to blast Microsoft back with patent violations, should Microsoft even make the attempt. Microsoft's patent threats are nothing more than a weak attempt to fracture the Linux community. So, be careful what FUD you spread about Novell. The patent issue is legitimate, but other than this single item, Novell has been an upstanding member of the F/OSS community -- much more so than the original SuSE Linux ever was. I'd be much more interested in rehabilitating Novell (which may happen with GPL 3.0) than in undermining it. - ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4My immediate thought, "OMG the Lizard has been held hostage...".
- stoffe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Red Hat are good guys on the block, worthy of support of anyone wanting to switch from SUSE/Novell. I'd still recommend Ubuntu though, for two reasons: It's much less "beta" than Fedora (but then you can run CentOS like parent said) and it uses deb/apt. Yum, and to some extent, RPM are horrible. If you don't think so, then odds are you just haven't tried anything better. Windows users also think that .msi is the epitome of easy... :)
Well anyways, neither is a bad choice, and Fedora may even be more morally correct if Ubuntu makes the (bad IMO) move to include closed drivers for the next version. - raid517, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1As ever a traditional '***** you!' to those who voted me down.
Enjoy...
It was a perfectly reasonable thing to say. - metalhead3767, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Buy more toys???
Beryl scripts???
You rather see Microsoft steal money then give to charity???
wtf - distrbnce, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2"This whole movement is being led by a couple of loudmouth troublemakers."
That will go down in history. - davefretty, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Maybe Novell are going to get sued, not by Microsoft but by the free software foundation for breaking the GPL license. Interesting to see what Eben Moglen will say on FLOSS.
- dkoon, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5"SLED 10 is good looking, well designed and very usable." but don't use it because Novell has a deal with Microsoft.... what the hell is wrong with you people? stop talking like you are a saint or something and Novell is tainted, like all you guys did was helping the world to be a better place.
I'd rather see Microsoft steal more money from everyone then give huge sum to the charity than seeing you fanboys telling us how much money you saved to buy more toys and bragging how fancy your beryl scripts are. - UltimaNut, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Anything with SuSe in it has reminds me that really equates to Novel who has now been "bought" by microsoft. Ill pass on SuSe.
- Lobster, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Neither Gnome nor KDE
I prefer Xfce. I also prefer Puppy Linux because it gets the whole operating system and the software in the size most distros require for the Window manager
Now you Suse Penguins. You Gnomes and KDE'rs.
Get some Puppytude:
http://tmxxine.com/Wikka/wikka.php?wakka=PuppyLove - atariby, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3The more forks the better, just shoot linux in the foot one more time.
- treetwobears, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0I'm halfway through nuking my Suse systems and replacing with Ubuntu.
- rsriniv, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5Who let the mac fanboy in? Macs suck. Can't even burn dvd videos! Call that user friendly? It doesn't "just work"
Stick with openSuSE - the best linux distro....EVER! - jeriqo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Stupid.
- raid517, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1I think this needs to be done and that there should be an effort to save SuSe from Novel.
Suse is a great distro - it's a shame to allow Novel to crap all over it.
Novel are working under the mistaken premise that they somehow own Suse. They do not. The simply have a license (under the GPL) to use it.
It's time Ithink to revoke that license. - CuCullin, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4I've paid for it in the past.
I also don't say "Boycott Novell!", but I will happily explain - if asked, or if brought up - that I cannot put any of my money or support behind Novell/SUSE anymore. It started for me with Mono, and now has finished with this agreement.
I don't hate the deal because its with MS. I disagree with it solely due to the patent portions of the agreement. Interoperability & virtualization - if it was just that, it wouldn't be an issue for me. - smb3d, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Doh, it submited twice.
- rynoon, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1...What?
-
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