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90 Comments
- cathars1s, on 10/12/2007, -2/+31There is no "enemy" - Linux simply gives people a choice. People should be free to pay for Microsoft Windows if they want.
- kmoore134, on 10/12/2007, -0/+22This is competition, like it or not. FreeBSD is quite different from Linux in many ways, including the License.
- Nezzari, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23Actually yes, It can run Linux software.
- atdigg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18I use Linux and I like it, however I welcome this kind of "competition", it can make Linux only better.
(and in case FreeBSD provides a tool/feature that Linux doens't have, Linux can promptly import it -- no big deal). - Aeiri, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13"Competing" is exactly the right term... I do not understand your logic at all.
For instance, if JoeMart came in to compete with WalMart, then BillMart comes into the market too, JoeMart and BillMart AREN'T competing? Wha...?
Anyway, this is great news to me. A few months ago I tried to install FreeBSD, and after the first package installed it asked me to switch CDs. I thought, "hmm, okay... I guess that was the only package on there it needed...", and put it in. It installed a few more, then it asked me to switch BACK to the first disk, and then back to the second, and back to the first....
I did this for about 10 times until I saw a button that I thought meant it would install off one disk, and then once it was done, install off the other. Well, it installed off the one, but it never asked for the second back again. I thought maybe it might work, but of course it didn't after restarting... I tried reinstalling again and it was doing the same things....
I refuse to use an OS with such a juvenile install system. It just reminded me of the old DOS days with the 5 1/4" floppies.
I love the ideology behind BSD (I'm torn between GPL and BSD licenses), and the underlying ports system seems pretty interesting, but I haven't gotten to try it yet. If they fix the install system (maybe this was just a fluke, who knows), I'll definitely give it another go.
I really hope this approach helps FreeBSD out. Who knows, maybe Linux won't succeed at the desktop and FreeBSD will? Until then, courage. - TKDWILSON, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17I really wish all free software organizations would stop competing and start collaborating and competing against closed source software. Seriously competing.
Eric Wilson - speel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Most defintly, competition only brings good to such things as these.
- geekee, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12"Mac OS X is based off of FreeBSD, and it's already doing a great job of competing with any desktop OS out there."
Hardly open source. Apple won't even let you run it on the hardware you choose. They're worse than Microsoft in the consumer choice department. - rageguy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I'm a Linux user, but I can never ever ever thank the OpenBSD project enough for OpenSSH, it is one of the most useful utils I have on all my computer systems.
I'm glad to see competition and innovation, I can forsee something else as intersting and astonishingly useful as OpenSSH emerging from the friendly work between the projects.
Go FreeBSD, go! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16Why the problem with non-free software?
Wouldn't the real enemy is monopolistic software.
Go FreeBSD - Nezzari, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11As a FreeBSD user, I couldn't agree more. FreeBSD is just amazing...Not to bash Linux, but I haven't come across a Linux distro that can match it's stability/speed.
- konspence, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Linux is much easier for package management. Do you have an easy way to install a webserver, php, mysql, etc.? I tried (n00b to freebsd) and I checked off more than one mysql version, it installed the LOWEST one, through neither pkg_add or ports, and I had no clue how to delete it. I went into /usr/ports/www/lighttpd, ran make install clean (or whatever you do), and it had some weird error. (didn't log it) Pkg_add, however, worked. Updating is just weird, since pkg_add and ports do not integrate with one another at ALL. On the other hand, Gentoo now can work perfect (or near perfect) with Freebsd, which would make package management great.
Feel free to flame now ;-)
And, if i could get it to WORK, I might use it regularly. But eh, too weird for me. Apt-get install lighttpd is the better way, IMO - lord2800, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"Linux is much easier for package management."
Disagreed, ports is much simpler in the overall perspective. Packages, however, I would agree that Linux has simpler solutions(such as apt).
"Do you have an easy way to install a webserver, php, mysql, etc.? I tried (n00b to freebsd) and I checked off more than one mysql version, it installed the LOWEST one, through neither pkg_add or ports, and I had no clue how to delete it."
cd /usr/ports/net/apache2 && make install && cd /usr/ports/lang/php5 && make install && cd /usr/ports/databases/mysql4 && make install
(assuming I got the paths right)
"I went into /usr/ports/www/lighttpd, ran make install clean (or whatever you do), and it had some weird error. (didn't log it) Pkg_add, however, worked. Updating is just weird, since pkg_add and ports do not integrate with one another at ALL."
Which is why you just use one and forget the other. Portupgrade works great if you stick to ports.
"And, if i could get it to WORK, I might use it regularly. But eh, too weird for me. Apt-get install lighttpd is the better way, IMO"
Meh... to each his own. I find ports a lot simpler to work with overall. - Valence, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I love FreeBSD, and use it on all my servers. It's an amazingly efficient tool for running DB servers, Web servers, all kinds of things, and it's a pleasure to use.
On the desktop? Why is it that every major *nix distro wants so badly to be a desktop computer? I mean, I don't necessarily have trouble understanding the answer to that question. I think the core developers typically use it as their desktop systems anyway, and they get frustrated when certain features aren't supported and they think, yes!, this could be better! But I'm using Ubuntu on two systems now, and although I know FreeBSD much better, Ubuntu is really, really good, and is being primarily developed for desktop use. Not, again, that you can't run an Ubuntu server, I'm sure many people are quite successfully, but if I can run Ubuntu for my desktop, and FreeBSD for my servers, and they can talk to each other and get along, well ... yes ... the world would be better if it was all one unified system, but I'm pretty happy right now with my OS selection, happier than I've been in years. - burke, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"~ FreeBSD is easier ~"
That's debatable. I think they're at the point where they're almost equal. I'll admit, I'm an Ubuntu user, and I've only used FreeBSD for half an hour, but here's my comparison:
apt-get install lynx
cd /usr/ports/www/lynx (or some path)
make install clean
I wouldn't say easier, but I wouldn't necessarily say harder either. Just different. - toveling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Totally agree with you, Aeiri, I ran into the same thing and was just as put off.
Simple things like that really make the whole OS look bad, even though it's just a blemish. Perhaps FreeBSD-PC or whatever is better?
And, at TKDWILSON, comptetion is great for open-source and software in general. To a certain extent working together is great, but competition helps give projects incentive to improve and more importantly gives the people incentive to contribute. - ickyelf, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Actually, Mac OS X uses the Mach kernel, with BSD utilities, with a few GNU tools thrown in.
- eklitzke, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@deepsub
Darwin is not an open source project anymore. Apple started to end the project while still using PPC, and now that it has been ported to x86 they haven't released any more code. http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200602/apple.html - soogy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6They may be competing, but I like how they pointed how GNOME is too focused on Linux. As far as I'm concerned, GNOME isn't focusing on itself enough.
- nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5it is. bsd is a member of the unix tree, linux is just a clean room reproduction using no orignal unix code.
- phlaxis, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"Oh, and it should recognize my scanner and printer like XP does."
Ha, tell me about it. For XP to "recognize" my HP printer, I have to insert the HP cd, wait for 20mins while it installs the drivers and 10 billion other space wasting crap things that come with it, than reboot my computer, than reboot my computer again, than set it up....
On the other hand, we have SuSE linux. When I plug in my printer, I have to go to the YaST controll center, click on hardware, click on "printers", click on add printer, than click on my model of printer and where it is hooked up to the computer. It will create a few text files on the system and I'm all ready to go to print up my reports and spreadsheets on Openoffice.org, A *free* office suite.
As for "arcane" commands, lets see, I personally don't think typing in "mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/usbdisk " is all that hard, but that's just me. - barbobot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Just because you put FACT infront of a mal-formed sentence doesnt make it a truth.
- hudef, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5""Developers are doing work so you can plug in a USB stick and have it appear on the desktop and just work, without having to mess around with command prompts and work out arcane commands,"
Let me know when they have finished tinkering. I want a system like XP that installs itself, or just works off the CD (like Knoppix). I am not the least interested in gaining deep insight into how Unix operates. Oh, and it should recognize my scanner and printer like XP does. - deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4...long live BSD! :D
- ZachPruckowski, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Not true. They still release the source. Look at the top of http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/
I see x86 and PPC source for 10.4.6 OS X release, which is Darwin 8.6
Yes, there are other issues in the article, but the source is still available. It may not be in an easy to use form, but it is available. - Agret, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Should probably checkout Gentoo linux then.
- drall.kj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I hope FreeBSD can compete with Linux. After a few month of running Linux the whole system feels gummed up messy. Linux is almost as bloated as windows. well at least the distro's I have used
I personally will stick with netbsb cause it runs on just about any piece of hardware on gods green earth. And with PkgSrc has just about all the software you could need, and it is neat and clean - sremick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Do you have an easy way to install a webserver, php, mysql, etc.?"
Yes, as a matter of fact. I've done all of the above many times. Find the proper folder beneath /usr/ports then type "make clean install". Or, use pkg_add. If you prefer binaries vs. compiling the source, use the -r parameter with pkg_add. I consider that "easy".
"I checked off more than one mysql version, it installed the LOWEST one, through neither pkg_add or ports, and I had no clue how to delete it"
Well I couldn't tell you what your trouble was. The ports system almost always has the current version, and as I check right now that's 5.0.21. The 5.1.9 beta is also available in the ports system if you want to use that. Deleting an installed package is as easy as using the pkg_delete command.
"Updating is just weird, since pkg_add and ports do not integrate with one another at ALL."
This is blatantly incorrect. The pkg_add command is PART of the ports system. Whether you run "make clean install" or use pkg_add (with or without -r), both result in the port being added to the ports system database on your computer, and all the ports tools (pkg_info, pkg_delete, etc) work just fine.
Updating is typically done with portupgrade although the new portmanager system is also gaining in popularity. - xoundmind, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yes, yes, yes....
For those who haven't tried, grab a copy of the newly release 6.1. Or even PCBSD or DesktopBSD.
The latter two will have you in a nice FreeBSD/KDE environment in about 30 minutes.
I especially urge you Ubuntu fanboys to check out this OS. Yes, it will be more difficult to install. Well, about on par with a Debian SID install. But you'll learn quite a bit in the process. As has been noted elsewhere. FreeBSD is as almost disturbingly fast as a desktop OS. And that's just using the pre-built binaries. The ports system (similar to Gentoo's software framework) will also allow full from source installs, with all of your dependencies checked and built in.
Will your laptop work from get go? Probably not, but hell you'll learn a lot about UNIX in those first few days of running FreeBSD.
You will thank yourself and, over time, wonder why wasted all that time with apt-get, etc.
The BSDs are the finest OS on the planet. No joke! - leonbev, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Mac OS X is based off of FreeBSD, and it's already doing a great job of competing with any desktop OS out there.
- brandizzle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I never thought that Linux as an OS was meant to be competitive. Sure some of the fanboys are, but I thought the original idea was just to educate people and allow them to make their own choices.
- bastardoperator, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Aren't we talking about Freebsd?
This guy is a douche bag who hasnt a clue. I'll spare you the huge listing for the other 2 large BSD's.
http://www.netbsd.org/People/developers.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OpenBSD_developers - nbx909, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6if they could only port the gui... with osx86 you think somebody would have reverse engineered that sucker by now...
- eklitzke, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The FreeBSD install is a major PITA. Debian is incomparably simpler to install than FreeBSD. Everything else you said (ease of installation, speed, etc.) could just as easily be said about Linux. In fact, since the Linux kernel is faster than the FreeBSD at just about everything, I would be surprised to hear that FreeBSD compared well with Linux in terms of speed, especially for desktop apps.
I can't imagine anyone saying apt is a waste of time. If all you want to do is compile the software with the default options, then you might as well just download a binary and save yourself some time. - tranix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3freeBSD is a strikingly different story from the other *BSDs, notice how "facts" post above makes No mention of freeBSD, the one that's surviving and thriving. I just love this sweet feature-packed easy-GUI Router/Firewall built on freeBSD: pfsense.org
- bryants, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Aeiri, you made a fatal flaw that most new commers make!
FreeBSD doesn't require you to install those packages! Which is your problem to begin with, you add extras to your os before you've completed the actual install. Don't install until you have a working install. installing the programs could be as simple as pkg_add -r PKG_NAME. In fact its usually best to update your ports, install the pkgtools then use those to determine latest version available, which usually isn't a package.
and with the pkgtools you'll have an even easier time. If anyone wants I'll write an article on how to install and get up and running with FreeBSD. It's easier than linux. The install is a bit arcane but granted the installer is 5+ years old. And is only beginning to see a change. Once BSDInstaller (http://www.bsdinstaller.org/) is fully integrated it'll be much easier. But until then the venerable sysinstall will just have to do. - arfox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm using FreeBSD for my club's server at uni and its just amazing. So, I'm glad that they're trying to improve the desktop too. FreeBSD is like warm, buttery goodness!
- burke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"....or just works off the CD (like Knoppix)...."
http://www.freesbie.org/ - nailbunny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3funny that you say netbsd is slow. on my laptop, it boots, runs kde and firefox a ***** damn crazy sight faster than anything else i've tried, except for gentoo.
what would you consider fast, if not netbsd? skyos? - padewak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3isn't FreeBSD a descendant from the ORIGINAL UNIX developed at Bell Labs?
- deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/
- pixels, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4BSD vs Linux :-)
http://critical.ch/bsdvslinux/ - burke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Haha, I'm going to mod the previous reply by bastardoperator down just becuase it's several pages long, but everyone should have a look. That's far more than 60, which would make the average 5, even if the other distros had NO developers.
- Nezzari, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4FreeBSD has a ports system... With 1 command you can download/compile applications. IMO, it's more powerful than any package manager on Linux(In fact, Gentoo based their package system on ports). New packages are updated in a matter of hours (Latest Gnome builds was up within hours)
- burke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I don't mean to criticize your choice, but why NetBSD? My guess is you're using hardware that is supported by FreeBSD, which is much more efficiency-centered than NetBSD. Net's main goal is just to port to everything, while Free's goal seems to be to make it a wonderful (and fast) experience for the generous handful of architectures it does support.
- pauldonnelly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I agree, most Linux distros are way to huge. The wonderful thing about Linux is that there are so many distro choices that almost anyone can find one that suits them (and the adventurous can make a system from scratch). I found my match with Arch Linux. You can start with an extremely minimal base system and season it to taste.
- TinMan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4With the FreeBSD ports system adding packages is much easier than linux.
Just go to my port dir and type 'make install clean' and its done. - imprimez, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm actually shocked at how many people here have never given FreeBSD a try. I was expecting to see more comments along the lines of "yeah that bsd crap is teh suck l1nux rul3z forever" and am actually relieved that that's not the case. Give FreeBSD it's a good OS that's pretty darn easy to use IMHO. As stated earlier, the ports system is awesome and definitely as easy to use as Ubuntu/Debian's apt-get.
- n_md, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I run FreeBSD 5.4 on my old 233MHz 64MB ram 2GB hdd laptop. I have a nice desktop using fluxbox and my wifi card and all hardware run perfectly. Faster than any other OS I've tried. Soon I'll update to 6.1 and see how that goes.
FreeBSD>Linux - crythias, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Make your own XP LiveCD... http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/
even though this is completely off topic... -
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