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- XVampireX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+39GREAT news!
Can't wait to be able to play movies on spikedhumor and youtube and google without A/V lag. - cazabam, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26You can already have Flash without A/V lag if you use firefox by setting the FIREFOX_DSP environment variable to 'aoss' and installing hte aoss binary from the alsa-oss package. Works great.
http://www.macewan.org/2006/06/01/howto-firefox-flash-video-sound-on-ubuntu-linux-dapper/ - neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18It's nice to see the developer asking the community what's best. Makes me a little more trusting. Who knows, maybe I'll try out this Flash 9 when it comes out (for 64-bit)
- tomee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17I hope that when the linux version of flash 9 is available, that google video and youtube will start using the On2 VP6 codec that is available since flash 8. Or is there some other reason they are not using it?
- GeneralFailure, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17That was their excuse for not releasing Flash 8 on Linux.
- tek69, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15It's not the linux communities fault that YOUR os supports every virus on the net. A lot of people here have complaints and linux people are known for being squeaky wheels, but we still remember one thing. For all the extra effort and crap, we get a better, more stable, and more personal os.
- sremick, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Some of us who run *nix systems don't consider running something under Wine to be running under *nix. Therefore, Wine != solution.
- nTensify, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9So basically, in order to keep backwards compatible with older versions of Flash, Adobe has to forget about new libraries and reroll all of their code on our platform.
That's just awesome Adobe, just awesome. Especially when Cairo is such an elegant library to use.. it's a pity. - nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9While you're not exactly wrong, your argument is a bit misleading.
"Qt? GTK ? Alsa ? OSS ? gstreamer ? ARTS ? v4l1 or 2 ?"
Qt or GTK: fair comparison
ALSA or OSS: OSS is deprecated, it's not a wise option and devs know this
ALSA or Gstreamer: I'm not 100% sure, but isn't gstreamer a level above ALSA? It's a choice, but they're not directly comparable
ARTS: is crap ;-), besides that it's an old dead-end
v4l1 or 2: afaik v4l1 is deprecated as well, you use the newer API - obijohn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10"It's not the number of APIs, but the sense that there is no accepted standard apart for the Linux kernel itself."
You say this like it's a BAD thing. The nice thing about OSS is that the developers themselves, with as much help from the community as the community wants to give, decide how best to do things. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8WHEN are people going to get it through their heads that it doesn't MATTER what desktop API you support on Linux??? Like GTK? Use it! Hate QT? Don't use it! I never run Gnome or KDE, but programs built with every API run just great on every single Linux machine provided it's a major distro which will already have support for every API on it. I can use *EVERY* program (even Gnome, Xfce and KDE panels - at the same time!) even from a TWM desktop! Here's a screenshot of me doing just that: http://penguinpetes.com/XWM_Guide/TWM_ss2.png
Believe me now?
People who say program-foo can't be ported to Linux because they can't tell what library to use are just making a stupid excuse. Just GPL the damn thing, it doen't matter if it was written in Martian! I'm a Linux user; gimme the damn code and stand back! If it needs a library I'll install it, if there's no compiled binary I'll build it from source, if it doesn't compile I'll tweak the code until it does, if it's buggy I'll fix it! If I weren't up to self-sufficiency, why else would I have chosen to run Linux? - raid517, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11I hope some of you guys try your best to help this guy out. He still seems to be struggling to understand how to do some fairly basic stuff.
Which is fair enough I guess. We were all n00bs at one point. However the fact that a major company like Adobe put such a relative n00b in charge of it's Linux development effort does not bode well for the future.
The guy is clearly doing his best. But at this pace he may be a long time away from completing anything truly usable. - bobnapalm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Linux is about choice....hence the problem with all the different standards out there. However eventually the weaker stuff usually gets left by the wayside and the better more prevelent stuff gets supported more and more...just takes time.
- int19h, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Just a tip for the pragmatic nix-users who didn't already know it:
Flash 9 works perfectly fine in Firefox for windows, running under Wine. Firefox even seems to respond quicker than the native build. The non-xpi version of Sun's Java RLE also installs and works fine under Wine. The only downside I've found yet, is that you won't get the themed widgets of GNOME/KDE/XFCE/your windowmanager, otherwise it works great. Oh, and Wine on amd64 might take some time to set up. Hope this tip was of use to someone. - stoffe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Well that was just overreaction from various submitters that didn't actually read the original post. Sure there was trouble, but there never was any actual talk about giving up the Linux version.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I have to agree, a native solution that fits in with a *nix security structure rather than bypassing it is desirable.
- alsm, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9great news, about a week ago there were no hope (http://digg.com/linux_unix/No_Hope_for_Flash_8_and_9_for_Linux), but now things seems to be getting better. I have a 64bit processor and now I know how a need a flashplayer (a lot of useful websites for me use Flash... )
- dukeinlondon, on 10/12/2007, -11/+17The answers to the post are a staggering example of what hurts Linux in software support. It's not the number of APIs, but the sense that there is no accepted standard apart for the Linux kernel itself.
Qt? GTK ? Alsa ? OSS ? gstreamer ? ARTS ? v4l1 or 2 ? This guy should have a place where he can go where the APIs supported by all (the debian, redhat, gentoo, suse, and other) are described and documented. Linux players should, every couple of years, decide what the standard APIs that they are all going to support.
Doesn't mean that they don't work on upcoming replacements, but just that there is some visibility for newcomers about wide support commitment. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@ GeneralFailure
Actually this seems to be the reason given for not releasing Flash 8 on Linux:
"Cairo is not fully compatible with the Flash rendering engine. As I said designers want pixel level accuracy, nothing less, including ALL the rendering bugs Flash has as strange as that sounds (one famous example: http://www.misuseit.com/bitmapbug/). We version check EVERY change in the renderer so that old SWFs will not look different (we got into big trouble many times for ever so slightly changes we made, even if they fixed a bug). While it would work great for simple animations, we would run into countless of issues with current content out there as users really fiddle with every single pixel. 95% cross platform compatibility is what matters for us, that's the main value of Flash IMO.
Flash 8 makes the situation even worse because of new rendering features cairo does not have (filters like blur, drop shadow etc, focal point radial gradients, stroke pixel hinting, SVG like blend modes etc. etc.). All of this would have to be redone in some form or another.
I believe cairo uses a painters model for rendering meaning shapes are drawn on top of other shapes (never looked at the source though) vs. Flash which is using a scanline based renderer, e.g. no scanline is ever touched twice during the rendering process. This has implications, making content look vastly different in some cases (did you know that Flash has a 12 layer limit per scanline span f.ex. and drops any additional ones?). The devil is in the details, not the high level APIs.
The software rendering performance of cairo is not what Flash can do on the desktop last time I checked (at least on Windows and MacIntel. FP7 on Linux was absolutely terrible in that regard, I admit. It essentially had NO optimizations, even the gcc options were not ideal for this code. :-(
I am really not trying to dismiss cairo here, it's a wonderful library solving a lot of cross platform issues. Cairo works perfectly well for a _lot_ of purposes and I believe any SVG implementation should use it." - raid517, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6It works OK.
- Dracker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6No x86_64 support.
And their installer detects that I'm using x86_64 even though I'm using a 32-bit Firefox browser through emul-linux-x86 libraries.
No digg until more COMMON linux architectures are supported. - spectre_25gt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"Can't wait to be able to play movies on spikedhumor and youtube and google without A/V lag."
I'd be happy if Youtube videos would stay in sync on my Windows machine under Firefox. I don't think that's a linux-only problem. - int19h, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Seen LSB?
- inkubux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I thought you can pipe the Whole Also to OSS or vice versa.
I saw this post on a gentoo wiki , very interesting :
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_ALSA_sound_mixer_aka_dmix#OSS_Emulation_Approach - inkubux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_ALSA_sound_mixer_aka_dmix#Firefox.2C_Mozilla.2C_RealPlayer.2C_Skype_.26_Co
sent the wrong link ;) - stoffe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Well I am running Flash 9 via Crossover Office, which is the commercial version based on Wine but with an interface for installing and running stuff. Since the codebase is a bit older there, it should work in regular Wine too, but I don't know if it interfaces automatically with Firefox like CX does.
It works perfectly apart from some places like Youtube that tries to do some kind of autodetect and decides I don't have it installed... playing movies etc has worked just fine in all other places, so far. As usual, YMMV.
A lot of people, including one of the main Wine developers run the Windows version of Firefox, including various plugins. Haven't tried it, but many recommend it. - tyn4n, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Stupid question probably, but how hard would it be to run the Windows flash plug-in through Wine on a native Linux Firefox install?
One of the only discussions I found on this was here: http://technocrat.net/d/2006/5/17/3493
Of course I am in full support of native Linux support... but it might be nice as a workaround for now. I just remember a few weeks ago going to espn.com expecting to tune into the streaming World Cup matches, but instead seeing "This site requires Flash 8". Twas a very sad day. - nTensify, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Well then again they could just rebuild the Windows plugin linking to Winelibs and forgoe having to fight with Wine itself, but I definitely prefer native code when I can run it, and we really should try to focus on building the Linux platform and not have companies just move over their Windows code (though it's great for a short term "we need this now" solution, writing more Windows code just straps Linux in for the ride with Microsoft, and it's already quite a struggle to keep up).
Besides, some of us like to believe we write superior code to Microsoft, ;). - willcode4beer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4inkubux, good idea
You got me wondering though. The MozPlugger plugin is pretty much universally configurable for plugin->application (especially useful for pointing streamripper to internet radio stations). So, I'm thinking that we should be able to exploit it to do a big chunk of the dirty work.
Hmmm..... I'm going to see what I can do with this. - MikeKnoop, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5If they're going to have a linux client... at least its a step in the right direction. I'm still waiting for a player for my PalmOS Treo 650.
-Mike - ripcrd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3He sure got a lot of suggestions. Looked like chaos, but a couple of things are clear. Adobe is wanting to use soon-to-be obsoleted linux technologies in their player. GTK 1.2, V4L 1.0 and users are pleading for current GTK 2.0 and V4L2.0.
- int19h, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@sremick
If you're referring to my tip, it was only meant for the pragmatic ones.
Besides, you know that Wine Is Not an Emulator, right? What do you mean that it isn't running under *nix? Of course it does.
---
For the record, I'm a big fan of open java and open flash, but using Firefox+Wine is the only way I know of that works for all webpages with flash/java, right now. As I said, it's a pragmatic tip. - Dracker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Actually, it may be possible, but not with their installer.
My current flash setup is through this method http://tinyurl.com/jguum
I will see if the Gentoo folks can add a new netscape-flash package that would work with emul-linux-x86 libraries and 32 bit firefox using this new version.
Still, out of the box support was what I was looking for. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Do they plan on releasing a Flash Plugin for PC-BSD?
- nemoder, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4It really doesn't matter what libs they use as long as those libs are shipped with their binary. This is how most closed source games etc work in Linux to remain compatible on as many distros as possible.
- SimonC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I used to do it, it is *slower*. Nobody wants to use Firefox in wine, because it display things badly, so you just run Firefox in Wine for some Flash apps (essentially videos). But then again, it's slow, you have to start Firefox/wine, go to the URL you just were... It ruins the browsing experience. I am as hardcore as LXers come, I've been running GNU/Linux long before it was fancy, pretty and everything, I do some development, but things have changed (for the better, because I am *really* lazy, just like all real computer scientists). These times, we rightfully expect GNU/Linux usage to be seemless, because it's being more and more used by the general public (heck, my mother runs Debian Sarge!! and no dual booting, and it's been 1 year and a half now; and she must be OK with it since she never complains and does her stuff. Btw since there are many younglings here on Digg, I need to specify that I've been living by myself for years now, I'm not being here to supervise her usage anyhow, I just ssh her computer and apt-get upgrade now and then).
Now I read here and there that some people don't care about how GNU/Linux looks and if it's easy to use as long as they get it to work. Well, I understand since I didn't cared much either, but things change. If you miss the crude user experience, and hand editing of configuration files, use LFS. If you want to code homebrew device drivers, go GNU/Hurd :). The good thing with Free Software is that you can also get old software. Have fun with Debian Potatoe, hell, with Debian Buzz, err, with Slackware 1(!!!) people! ;). I, for one, enjoy my shiny Debian Ubuntu (the Debian bits certainly matter most by far, but newer packages (including graphical goodness) and the Ubuntu top-down approach are pleasant to me [and required by many people coming from Windows or OSX]). - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4You know what? Adobe can ***** themselves. I wouldn't use any of their ***** software if they paid me by now. What they can do instead is lend some support to the Gnash project from here on out; provided it's just talking to the Gnash team and leaving the coding up to them. Believe me, Adobe could learn a hell of a lot more from GNU than GNU needs from Adobe.
- SimonC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@nemoder: way to increase memory usage (ie, it would duplicate libraries that might already be loaded, like GTK2). Remember, Flash is meant to be a *small* app, running smooth. You don't want it to fill your memory more than it needs.
- inkubux, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I have the same idea, why not create somethings like wine universal plugger where you can load every plugin you want inside the linux version of firefox.
- astrosmash, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3He's got even more info in this blog posting:
http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2006/07/bedraggled_earlobe_hammer.html - popey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I did a similar how-to here http://popey.com/node/71 with copious screen shots. Might help some newbies.
- kavaliro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Adobe: "Cairo doesn't do what we need it to do yet:("
Opensource Programmer: "Take the source code, and FIX it, then;)"
Seriously. What a lame excuse.
But what we really need is Flash, not just Flash Player. The lack of a decent replacement for Flash or Director is the last real hurdle for Open Source in the multimedia field. Sooner or later someone will bridge that gap, if Adobe doesn't. Actually, it wouldn't take much modification of Inkscape to do flash-like animation. Just add some scripts to take layers (with their sublayers) that are sequentially named and output a targa sequence. And create an onion-skin widget that fades and locks all but the current layer (plus it's sublayers) Bingo! You're in business. - infwonder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's about time! I get really tired to see those "Flash 8 required" warnings while surfing the net.
- sukimashita, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@nTensify: Wrong. It's about the rendering in Flash. It is absolutely vital that any Flash movie (hey, some say application here too!) is displayed exactly the same as within any other platform's player. Even a pixel shifted-off can lead to dramatic issues. The best way to avoid trouble is to have one common renderer for ALL platforms, which they are using right now and which in affect is a software one which uses your CPU. In order to merge to a new rendering it will have to happen on all player versions simultaneously, not just the Linux one, to keep the output consistent.
- thoand, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"I'd be happy if Youtube videos would stay in sync on my Windows machine under Firefox. I don't think that's a linux-only problem."
That is either a Windows/Firefox or Flash problem. I think the reason is that YouTube is streaming their videos with standard HTTP - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1They can just pick a standard and port to it, GTK will work in KDE and QT will work on DE's/WM's outside KDE. Industry is looking for excuses at the moment, slowly they are running out because as soon as one company starts porting the others will have to eventually.
- sinatosk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1jimmygoon says: "You're an idiot. Block this content, get over yourself and then realize that its not Linux's or Linux User's fault that Adobe refuses to ship a product for Linux."
am sorry jimmygoon but when did Adobe announce or say anywhere that they refused to ship a product for linux??? in this case... the Linux Flash Player 9? - dukeinlondon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Or premature
- DoubtingThomas, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5@hosiah:
It is this type of mind set that will keep major GNU/LINUX adoption from really taking off. I, myself, have no problem compiling from source and in fact prefer it (for things like Apache and PHP) to using what is pre-packaged by Ubuntu. However, something as basic as Flash inside Firefox needs to be fall-off-of-a-log easy as it is so fundmental to Joe User's experience. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Mike has posted a follow-up article here.
http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2006/07/crosseyed_legacy.html -
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