What is Digg?268 Comments
- nosg, on 10/15/2009, -10/+90Point #3: "Why do you use the GUI so much? you're such a noob, use the console." "Ubuntu: Linux for retarded human beings".
Yeah, that's a great attitude. - TdotFUNK, on 10/15/2009, -0/+47To sum it up:
1) Lack of Linux vendor support
2) Lack of Linux advertising and marketing
3) Too much bad techie attitude
4) Too much infighting
5) Not enough developer co-operation
..."
If Linux gets all these things right, will it stop the Windows desktop monopoly? Nope. But it will be a good start towards making desktop Linux more competitive. If nothing else, making sure that users always have a good, inexpensive alternative to Windows will always be a worthwhile goal. - IHaveIssues, on 10/15/2009, -4/+51Actually I find the Ubuntu community quite supportive in its forums.
- rockon4life45, on 10/15/2009, -10/+55This is always defended but if there were HALF as many distros a lot of them would improve dramatically. It seems like every week you hear about a new distro that starts up becuase the developers want to go in a new direction. If devs concentrated on maybe 10 different distros they would all be so much more amazing.
- angusm, on 10/15/2009, -10/+54On hearing that there were only five ways for the Linux desktop to shoot itself in the foot, Linux fans immediately launched an open-source project to invent a sixth.
- ElAmo, on 10/15/2009, -4/+41"Digg users - you're all a bunch of Wanking Walruses"
- Linus Torvalds - bignah, on 10/15/2009, -10/+42I had to spend my weekend trying to figure out how to write an xorg configuration file in order to get my external monitor to work properly. That right there is why linux is not ready for the mainstream.
- Dan050, on 10/15/2009, -12/+40This stupid. Linux is free, what do you expect from people who don't get paid?
Linux as it is, is already a miracle. - zoomaKabu, on 10/15/2009, -20/+47Hey, 1998 called and it wants it's "Microsoft is holding back Linux on the desktop" post.
- thewisemonkey, on 10/15/2009, -2/+28Agreed - you've got to respect the amount of time and effort that has been put into it, even if you don't like using it.
- merien, on 10/15/2009, -6/+32"If you don't... Your loss!". This is exactly the attitude described in the article that is hurting Linux. A lot of people like Windows or are tied to Windows. Linux users often do not even try to understand why people use Windows. If you don't understand you'll never be able to convince people to use Linux.
- danielwsmithee, on 10/15/2009, -2/+28Look at the projects/programs that are trying to be truly cross platform and actually support linux. VirtualBox is a good example.
To download the installer for windows (one line one link one installer)
VirtualBox 3.0.8 for Windows hosts x86/amd64
To download the installer for OS X (one line one link one installer)
VirtualBox 3.0.8 for OS X hosts Intel Macs
To download and install for Linux :
Please choose the appropriate package for your Linux distribution:
Ubuntu 9.10 ("Karmic Koala") i386 | AMD64
Ubuntu 9.04 ("Jaunty Jackalope") i386 | AMD64
Ubuntu 8.10 ("Intrepid Ibex") i386 | AMD64
Ubuntu 8.04 LTS ("Hardy Heron") i386 | AMD64
Debian 5.0 ("Lenny") i386 | AMD64
Debian 4.0 ("Etch") i386 | AMD64
openSUSE 11.1 i386 | AMD64
openSUSE 11.0 i386 | AMD64
openSUSE 10.3 i386 | AMD64
SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 (SLES10) i386 | AMD64
Fedora 12 ("Constantine") i386 | AMD64
Fedora 11 ("Leonidas") i386 | AMD64
Fedora 9 ("Sulphur") / 10 ("Cambridge") i386 | AMD64
Fedora 8 ("Werewolf") i386 | AMD64
Mandriva 2009.1 i386 | AMD64
Mandriva 2008.0 i386
Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 ("RHEL5") / CentOS 5 i386 | AMD64
Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 ("RHEL4") / CentOS 4 i386
Turbolinux 11 i386 | AMD64
PCLinuxOS 2007 i386
All distributions i386 | AMD64
Now you want to tell me fragmentation isn't hindering support of Linux? - evilregis, on 10/15/2009, -3/+27I don't understand how people complain that they can't fix Linux. I'm sorry, but I barely go a week without someone in my family, a friend or a co-worker having some issue with Windows that they have no clue how to even begin to fix. Fact is that very very few people can fix their own systems. Whether you're using Linux or Windows, if you don't know someone who can fix it for you, you're going to be paying someone to do it.
Windows is no easier to use than Linux, IMHO. It boils down to familiarity. People are used to Windows. That doesn't mean it's easier. If someone handed you a machine built just for you with Linux installed, all devices working and all you had to do was just use it... I'll put money on it being far more reliable and long-lasting than just about any Windows installation you've had.
My parents have been running Ubunut since 7.10. My dad has, on his own, upgraded his way through to 9.04 and... I ***** you not... excited that 9.10 is coming out.
I'm not saying it's for everyone. But let's not pretend like Windows "just works' and that Joe Average can fix it anytime a problem occurs. - maddHavoc, on 10/15/2009, -12/+30Sorry that is not the issue with terminal everyday use.
the issue is DUN DUN DUN, having to use a ***** terminal for everyday use. nobody wants to have to type out commands all day (obviously, look at the market) and for the people who DO like to do that, you make up the 2%
/thread
/linux vs gui fights - nullvector, on 10/15/2009, -6/+24Wow, he's right on with most of those points. I've had those same opinions since I started using debian back in '99.
Linux is awesome when set up correctly. It can even be really easy to use when set up correctly. One of the problems I notice, however, is that there is no consistency in the product. Pick up a Windows 98 for dummies book, and then take that knowledge to Windows 7, and you'd have a pretty similar sort of experience.
In Linux distributions, from version to version, shell to shell, there are so many differences that even a seasoned Linux user can look at the interface and think "WTF?"
As nice as the improvements have been over the last 10 years, it needs a consistent feeling that users can be comfortable with, rather than changing up interfaces, menus, shells, and options every 6 months. That sort of thing is confusing for the 'casual' computer user, and yet again, one reason why Linux Desktops are not as popular as they could be.
Ubuntu has been a great step towards that consistency. I look forward to what they keep doing in the future. - DOCNM, on 10/15/2009, -2/+20I honestly haven't seen so much of that lately. As someone else mentioned, I find Ubuntu forums particularly helpful and polite. This, as long as you stay away from dev forums.
- grnicon, on 10/15/2009, -1/+17"Linux users often do not even try to understand why people use Windows"
This is because outside the vocal Linux World Dominance campaign (as seen on Slashdot, since 2000 at least), no one gives a damn.
I started using Linux because the source code was there, and it was an open platform. Most of the people are not being paid to write free software, nor do they take kindly to fools that can't be bothered to read documentation. It's a hobby to most, or something they needed to write to get things done.
It's nice that we have better driver support today and much better X11 GUI libraries, and Linux is increasingly supported by well-funded businesses. But I do miss the days when every person using Linux actually knew what UNIX was, and knew how to compile their own kernel.
I really can't stand people bitching about how Linux is not Windows. Worse are those that demand support and perfection from people giving their time away. Something doesn't work right? Probably because the person who wrote it has a real, full-time job, that does not involve seeing to your every need. - SteveMax, on 10/15/2009, -0/+15Usually, people who complain about not being able to fix a Linux system are those who can fix Windows. They are the users who got just enough experience on a single OS (through its various incarnations) to know it from the inside out. Those guys believe that, since they know their way around Windows, they should be able to find their way around any other OS. However, a *nix system is a completely different beast. Most of the techniques and shortcuts you use in Windows won't exist on *nix, and the clues for where to look next that they are used to seeing in Windows won't exist in a similar way on *nix. That frustrates them, and gets them to the "Linux sux 'cause you can't XXXXXXX" mentality.
In a similar way, I know my way around most Linux systems, but I'm pretty lost on Windows 7 (don't use Windows since 2000). I won't say Windows sucks because of that, though; I know it's just different. - maddHavoc, on 10/15/2009, -7/+21Oh, and #3 is spot on.
Now feel free to live up to the hype linux-- err GNU/Linux stereotypes below. - HPMNick, on 10/15/2009, -4/+18I agree. There are too many different distros going in too many different directions. What pisses me off are the differences in the implementation on red hat vs debian distros. It can get very confusing looking for a standard directory/file only for it to be renamed or relocated (or not even present) in a different distro.
It is completely unacceptable when software doesn't run on all the distros (at least without manual intervention). This should be the bare minimum requirement. - iskin, on 10/15/2009, -0/+14I hope that is the name of an Ubuntu release.
- andrejhoward, on 10/15/2009, -3/+17I'm a windows sys admin. I've been working on computers for 14 years now and just recently started looking into linux to replace a couple of our servers. Very friendly with a little work and very rewarding without having to be an expert. I think it has it's place in computing and while it will never be as popular as Windows or as trendy as OS X it will also never be obsolete.
Just my 2 cents - theghoul, on 10/15/2009, -5/+18#3 for me. I got flamed by wanting to change my resolution via gui. Kinda turned me off of Linux. I just need it to work so I can produce some documents and answer some emails. I didnt need to be called a noob or told to check the "man" page.
If you don't have anything good to say, then flame away is the usual tone for asking for help in linux. I think this grieves Shuttleworth and Stallman a bit. Well, maybe not Shuttleworth, he's loaded. - Jonjonr6, on 10/15/2009, -4/+16But it's really the Linux community that makes up "Linux". Without, Linux is pretty much nothing.
So, whether or not it's Linux's fault or the community's fault is irrelevant. Linux suffers either way. - MacParrot, on 10/15/2009, -4/+15I don't exactly disagree with you, but if the goal is to expand Linux adoption and get more hardware and software support, then an effort must be made to consolodate
- DOCNM, on 10/15/2009, -0/+10can you specify what you mean by 'decent browser'?
- sgxyay, on 10/15/2009, -4/+14That's a good enough reason to keep on using it, I'd say. For people who don't give a ***** about special OS features (95% of them), why waste time and/or money learning a new OS?
- Taiyoryu, on 10/15/2009, -0/+10I don't see Canonical's play into cloud-based services as a bad move. "Here, have a free OS be it end-user or OEM. Now that we've got your attention, how about we offer you these value added services like online sync (similar to .Mac) and app store full of free and commercial software (of which we get a cut)." Imagine Adobe writing native Linux versions of their software suite, available for purchase and download via a package manager, and kept up-to-date automatically. Imagine game companies selling their games through a direct channel that competes against Steam. Given the success of the iTunes App Store, Canonical providing one that's even more open to developers and end-users would be awesome. Canonical is already targeting the netbook market so it's a good fit there too.
- Jonjonr6, on 10/15/2009, -3/+12Until those instructions on websites don't work.
Reasons why they might not work?
-out dated web page or instructions
-author has already made other changes or updates that the reader hasn't - badfishmedia, on 10/15/2009, -5/+14I really think #3 (" Too much bad techie attitude") is a huge reason. I want an OS that stays out of my way and just does things for me. I understand that is not the attitude that gave birth to Linux, but I think more adoption of that attitude is needed for it to advance.
- danielwsmithee, on 10/15/2009, -2/+11That doesn't change the fact that the developers have to target 40 different flavors of Linux to fully support Linux. For each of the Linux varieties listed above there is a separate build of VirtualBox as a deb file or rpm for that platform, and of course each one comes in 32-bit or 64-bit.
The All distributions link just runs a script that detect the appropriate package to download and downloads it for you. Yet more work to support Linux.
We all want to see improved support on Linux from companies and manufacturers. How many times have we heard that it would be nice if Adobe ported Photoshop/Illustrator to Linux, or if Google's applications came to Linux more quickly . They simply can't easily there are too many varieties to support.
I'm an engineer and was hoping to run some software from Xilinx on Ubuntu, they actually support it for RHEL and SUSE linux, but not Ubuntu. - Altotus, on 10/15/2009, -1/+10Both KDE and GNOME have control-panel applications that do this quite well. What was the problem with them?
- orky7, on 10/15/2009, -0/+9people should realize that OS is mere a tool that help us to achieve something i think 90% of people dont bother about linux or windows they just want to do there work in a easy fashion.... whether connecting a printer or phone or running flash. whoever gives all the required things easily without any hassle they will choose that OS.
and for rest of us we love to tackle problems. - theOster, on 10/15/2009, -3/+11http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-trains-wi ...
- DOCNM, on 10/15/2009, -2/+10not that I care about the specifics, but the adoption of linux in the server segment completely undermines your point.
- evilregis, on 10/15/2009, -1/+9Are you serious? Firefox? Opera? Two of the best browsers available are in Mint repos.
- neowolfwitch, on 10/15/2009, -0/+8There is such a system:
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com
I believe most larger distributions have similar systems now, but this is the one I am familiar with. Ideas from here are often sent "upstream", so they end up getting applied to other distributions besides Ubuntu. - RoboRay, on 10/15/2009, -2/+10"Ubuntu console is pretty much copy paste. Nothing hard about that."
If there's some common function that most users are required to copy & paste from a website, there should be a button or menu selection for that function in the GUI.
"Seriously is telling someone to go to a website and paste this message on the website hard?"
No, it's not hard. But if that hard-coded command you're telling everyone to paste into the command line had been a button on the GUI, it not only would have been even easier, they might even have been able to figure out for themselves rather than asking you for help.
"I sure hope not or just using a computer is going to be problemmatic."
A well-designed and function-rich GUI is always less problematic for average users than the near infinite amount of websites, forums and wikis that provide these "easy" command line copy & paste instructions. - MacParrot, on 10/15/2009, -1/+8It isn't that it's hard. It isn't that it's all that different from what they are used to or are capable of. It's the "I'VE been using linux for a very long time and the thought of someone new using it that doesn't already have the same knowledge that I do is distasteful so BEGONE noob!" attitude that turns people off from the platform. Obviously not everyone is like this, but enough are that people tend to be afraid to ask for help, which means that can't get the answers they need, which means that go back to using Windows or OS X.
- the8thbit, on 10/15/2009, -0/+7Ubuntu 15.10 (Wanking Walrus)
- covertbadger, on 10/15/2009, -9/+16Maybe the developer population has more than 10 different goals? If I work with something as non-standard as xmonad, why would I want to waste my time writing code for KDE/Gnome? Not everyone cares how mainstream linux gets.
- securesystems, on 10/15/2009, -3/+10My biggest pet peeve is with Ubuntus love of ugly color schemes. Appearance matters! Apple knows this, Microsoft knows this, but Ubuntu feels they have to maintain their corporate colors in the distribution. It turns people off as soon as they see it.
- neowolfwitch, on 10/15/2009, -1/+7Depends on the distro, but it is true that xorg doesn't generally need the config file anymore. Unfortunately most of the "help" resources out there still tell you to edit this file. Getting Linux to run properly on a laptop is still dicey, even with the vast improvements in xorg and HAL over the last few years.
It needs to be said though that Windows can go wonky quite easily too, and this also often requires a complete system restore. At least with xorg you can modify the config file to override a bad setting, at least temporarily. No such functionality in Windows. If you can't get it to boot in "safe mode", you are pretty-much screwed.
Another thing that should be said is it is a whole lot easier to restore a Linux system with all of your user settings and files in-tact than I suspect it will ever be in Windows. Windows users like to mock the "old-school" configuration files in Linux, but I will take them over the mess of .inf files and that abomination called the Windows Registry any day. - js281, on 10/15/2009, -2/+8When the instructions you are following fail on step 15 of 18 or whatever, and you are left with half a set up, it can be quite hard to fix when compared to installing things on Windows or OSX.
Although that said - most of the time apt-get ftw. - the8thbit, on 10/15/2009, -0/+6Most software would be written for Linux, and there would be many, many more developers contributing to it.
Linux, but popular is essentially the holy grail of operating systems.
Not to mention, this would encourage the development of free and open software. - SteveMax, on 10/15/2009, -0/+6Who will write a "run selected text in Terminal" Firefox extension/Greasemonkey script?
- neowolfwitch, on 10/15/2009, -1/+7I love Linux, and use it extensively for servers, and as my primary desktop at home and work. Still- much of this criticism is true. Unfortunately much of it is because of the "culture" of Linux, and I don't see that going away soon.
I personally love Ubuntu for what it has done for the desktop. I was "old school" Linux, and use the terminal a lot as well, and am quite adept and compiling my own software and modules- but Ubuntu and distributions like to make Linux much more accessible to non-geeks.
There are still developers and sysadmins out there who will scoff and refuse to help you, if not outright slam you, for using the "U" word. There are also users and Linux pundits who will grill you for daring to use Gnome over KDE, or vice-versa. The same is true with RPM vs. DEB (and the half-dozen or more other package-management systems out there now). Hell- some will even criticize you for using a package manager at all! What do you mean you didn't compile your own kernel and apps?!?!
Unfortunately old and bitter attitudes and arguments like these are what turn people away from Linux. They are also what drives Linux forward though, making it "better" in the long run (hopefully). The competition between distributions and especially desktop platforms is what keeps Linux alive and moving forward. That benefits all of us that use it, but makes it a lot harder to garner converts from Windows. Until "one LInux desktop to rule them all" emerges, Linux will probably never really compete with Windows. However- once that happens (if it ever does), much of what drives Linux as the vibrant operating system it is will probably die, and it could become everything we (Linux users) hate about Windows. - iskin, on 10/15/2009, -1/+7Rightly so! Developers are donating their time to the improvement of Linux, people shouldn't go knocking on their door to interrupt their development for a simple question. There is a group of people right next-door who love sharing their passion with anyone and everyone. Go ask them!
- the8thbit, on 10/15/2009, -0/+6Well, with Debian and Ubuntu number 3 isn't really true, considering how good the forums are, and Chrome OS should knock out numbers 1 and 2. That leaves 4 and 5, which are essentially the same, though perhaps not a bad thing. competition breeds better products, and considering most of these products are free and open it's not as if one competitor can't build off the work of another, and vice versa.
- diablozx9, on 10/15/2009, -0/+5"Linux" isnt always free.
There are free distros but, in the server world, there are successful pay-for distros (Red Hat, etc)
People do pay for Linux. -
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