What is Digg?70 Comments
- weijie90, on 10/12/2007, -3/+766. Check to see whether all your hardware is compatible. Yes, some printers don't work in linux.
I know, im gonna get dugg down, but the fact that some hardware is incompatible should not be avoided. - wallclimber, on 10/12/2007, -0/+51There's no reason for you to get Dug down. You are absolutely right about making sure your hardware is compatible. It's only common sense to do that, no matter what system you are planning to set up. It's no secret that Windows also has hardware requirements, as do Macs.
It's just that folks don't always think about it like that because Windows and Mac systems generally come pre-installed on their computers, so the hardware has already been figured out. You can bet that Dell won't buy hardware that won't be compatible with Windows.
It always seems odd to me that people somehow feel that Linux must meet far higher expectations for hardware compatibility than Windows. I have no way to actually know for sure, but I'd still be willing to bet that Linux actually supports more hardware than Windows does. I do know that in the last year and a half, many of the Live CDs that I've tried have worked amazingly well on my old hardware (erm...I mean my computer's old hardware, of course ; ) - michuk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+29Completely agree with wallclimber here. Linux supports such a variety of hardware that it's unfair to always mention the incompatibility issue. This is the user's fault mostly. If he/she purchases hardware from a vendor that doesn't care about him (does not publish the specs for free software writers enabling them to write free drivers), no wonder the hardware is not compatible. Do you know how incompatible Windows or MacOS is? Try installing them on sparc :P
Summing up, the user needs to be educated why free software drivers are good for him and why he should avoid manufacturers that do not provide such drivers (or at least the specs). Then, the driver issue will become non-existant for him. - rumor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24@roosterjim2k
my nForce gigabit ethernet works just fine.
nforce 3 250gb ultra or some such chipset.
you also realize that windows does NOT support this ethernet card, and you have to use nvidia's drivers or it doesn't work at all. - michuk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11"If you ask for help, you're showing weakness, which will result in immediate ridicule, and inevitably being called a "n00b"."
Of course that's right -- if you send a newbie to the Usenet or to some of the large and not very friendly forums (like linuxquestions, linuxforums, etc). But there are exceptions. For instance, on nuxified.org -- the community promoted by the article -- newbies are very welcome and RTFM-kind of answers are forbitten (read the rules). - michuk, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14@roosterjm2k2
You are referring to the popular desktop (x86) hardware that has proprietary drivers only! The hardware world is much more than a few Linux-unfriendly vendors!
Windows runs flawlessly on x86 only. Try running it on amd64 and you'll encounter similar problem to GNU/Linux on that architecture. And it does not even run on ANY other architecture (powepc, sparc, alpha, etc).
Of course, the regular user WILL have problems with their hardware when trying to run GNU/Linux on desktops which were not certified for it. But same goes for Windows and any other OS (if run on non-certified hardware)!
What we're saying is that Linux supports more individual hardware pieces than Windows. Not that it supports all the popular ones. There's a difference. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Oh noez!!!
I gotta learn something new!
The horror! - Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8"one thing they forgot to mention would be y'know, Dependency Hell. Newbies to Linux, good luck dealing with it."
Did you even RTFA? THE FIRST ON THE LIST is software installation which includes dependancy resolution (read: apt, yup, pacman, portage, etc, etc) - Dhalgren, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10#7: Give Steve Balmer $1000 because apparently you are stealing Microsoft Intellectual Property...
- JonForTheWin, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15WallClimber is correct, the kernel Linux supports more hardware than windows or Mac OS X could ever dream of.
- Dhalgren, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"I buy a new, boxed piece of hardware - it WILL work with Windows"
That is not necessarily the case. A PCHDTV card will not work with Windows (and it comes in a box...) Also, only recently has Windows handled hardware drivers with any semblance of sense. You remember plug and pray? Then there's the fact that you have to protect drivers disks with your life. I was re-installing Windows for someone with one computer in their house and they didn't have a driver disk. Windows did not have a generic driver for the ethernet controller on the motherboard. Because there was only one computer I couldn't download the drivers from the manufacturer. I was able to get them by using USB to talk to his cable modem, but not before thinking I was going to have to leave and come back later. I never have problems like this with Linux. I just think it's important to realize that both Windows and Linux have issues with drivers. - heathenx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7...or apt or smart
- michuk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"Ubuntu just use the apt-get install to get whatever you need for the compile. The learning curve can't be anymore then 5 minutes."
In Ubuntu you don't need to compile anything. Not if you are a regular multimedia/internet/office user. I think I just had to compile 2-3 apps during last year and I'm a programmer, doing lots of different things with my OS. - insub2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@ roosterjm2k2
the claim is based on an out-of-the-box install...and more so in regards to a custom build, i believe.
the fact is that a linux cd/dvd has most the drivers on it already. for windows, you'll have to load the drivers off separate disks. usually this isn't a problem with preconfigured computers (like a dell, or hp, or whatever), they have all the drivers on one disk. but with a custom build.......yeah, it took me at least an hour to install all the drivers for windows on my rig.
the other aspect is in regards to old hardware. linux tends to be a better choice on older hardware.
You see, linux supports hardware. windows supports some hardware but mostly the hardware manufacture supports windows.
NOTE: these aren't actual numbers. I want to see those numbers too (i'll be doing a google search later...) but this is why i think those numbers will show linux supports more hardware. - lyzz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I can't believe you are getting modded up. Microsoft has been convicted of infringing on other companies' IP. Linux has not. I'd be far more worried if I was running Windows.
Quoting a slashdot comment:
The right thing to ask is how much open and public domain source made it to Windows? Was not Linux preemptive multitasking before Windows, POP3, SMTP/sendmail, DNS/BIND, Kerberos, telnet, ftp, http, ssl, TCP/IP itself, and probably more.
I'll add virtualization, desktop search, aqua-like desktop effects, an XML document format, and LDAP to that list. - SamMiller0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7http://duggmirror.com
- Dhalgren, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"especially when the computer is using SATA"
That's right, I forgot about SATA. For Windows XP Pro, you still need a fricken floppy drive to install the SATA drivers. I had a system I couldn't get Windows installed on and Ubuntu booted without a flinch... - armbar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5If you find ways to do things better but have to learn a completely new way of doing them, they just might be worth the time in the long run.
- Eoxx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@ roosterjm2k2
Linux runs on more different architectures than Windows or MAC ...It support multiple processors, 64 bits architectures, PC, power Pc, AMD specific ,intel specific, Mainframe,Sun hardware ...
It doesn't mean that a driver exists for all hardware existing (your very last graphic or audio card, or pirnter).
Linux also support old hardware that is no more supported on Windows ... the problem of hardware support is the fault of manufacturers not Linux fault :there is an army of developer that is ready to develop drivers when the specs are available ...
Windows out of the box does not support all hardware - some are included in the release BY 3rd party companies or you install it yourself by download on manufacturer website .
So the problem is the good will of manufacturer to develop drivers. And this good will depends on the number of users using the system ...So the more user, the more application, the more hardware support ...
Linux developer are not there to develop drivers for all specific existing hardware, they are there to give an efficient system where third party could develop their own drivers ... If Companies don't want to do it, don't buy their product or don't use Linux ... It is up to you - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Dependency Hell, huh?
Evidently you've never used Portage. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@JQP123:
Dude. We get it. You don't like Linux. No one ever said you had to.
Your arguments, however are irrelevant. Go back under your bridge. - jordn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@roosterjim2k
sorry dude, just can't agree with you there. My nforce4 gigabit LAN works just fine with ubuntu and suse 10. - nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@Eoxx:
"Linux runs on more different architectures than Windows or MAC ...It support multiple processors, 64 bits architectures, PC, power Pc, AMD specific ,intel specific, Mainframe,Sun hardware ..."
Let me help you: PPC, x86, x86_64/amd64/emt64, IA-64, sparc, alpha, ARM, MIPS, and many more...
@lyzz: grandma is not installing linux or windows any time soon. she doesn't have to. she'll use whatever comes on her computer. - kingchad1989, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@roosterjm
Show me a version of Windows that runs on an iPod. Also guess which operating system was first to support Hot-Pluggable PCI, USB 2.0, Firewire, plus a whole slew of others...The only reason that you think that Windows has better hardware support is because you are uninformed. The only reason that hardware works with windows but not with Linux is because hardware manufactures *generally* choose to only provide support for Windows, not because Windows is more adapt at handling new hardware. - samalex1701, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Most of the things they show on this website are specific to Gnome, but if someone uses KDE, Fluxbox, or any of the other windows managers/desktops, they will have a quite different experience. This is IMO what makes Linux so flexible and awesome are the choices, but it makes such websites like this hard to swallow as they generalize so many things.
I will say though, I've had much better experience with Linux then Windows when it comes to hardware and compatibility. Some say "show me the numbers" when it comes to statements like Linux is more compatible with hardware then Windows, but I can only base it on my experience. I use lots of different peripherals and grey-box systems, and honestly Linux gives the least amount of fits.
Even when it comes to scanners, digital cameras, and the like, I have better experience with Linux then I ever did on Windows. Much if it goes back to drivers supplied by the vendor (which often need to be purchased if lost, like with some scanners and digital cameras) vs open-source, 3rd party drivers. My Olympus digital camera, HP scanner, WinTV-250 capture card, Matrox video card, all worked with Linux with no fits or problems, but I always have to fight to get all this to work in Windows.
For a Windows-phile who bows to the like of Bill Gates, Linux will never be excepted, but to the open-minded and noobs to computing, Linux is there and ready to use. And did I mention free? - michuk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Again, digg effect gets bigger every month. We survived some 10 diggs already, but this time there are huge problems. I just fixed some apache settings -- the site will take longer to load but it should not kill our small PIII server anymore. Sorry for any inconvenience.
- ziptnf, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Yes, stay away from any IRC channels that may be related to the distro that you are running. The rule of thumb is: if they don't know the answer to the question, they will make fun of you. And that is true for almost all cases of newbie-bashing.
Disclamer: I run FreeBSD. - t3st3r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm personally preferring to give him some toggled grenade instead to play with.Racketeers like MS should be punished!And Ballmer is bastard #1 in MS.
- Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Firstly his first post was semi-correct... customisation etc. is sometimes overwhelming. Especially if the first Distro you pick up would be Gentoo! I mean come on... configuring compiler optimisation etc? As if my mom would even know wth that is. But in the n00b-friendly distro world it's not really that hard.
Take for example Ubuntu. You klick install, setup some stuff (username, country, language... less than Windows asks you) and then away it goes, you reboot and you have a fully functional OS. If you want a different Desktop Enviroment then you install Xubuntu or Kubuntu, or install the DE form within you current version.
This is why your point is irrelevant.
Secondly, JQP123, every single one of your comments on this article have been negative towards Linux. If you don't like it then go crawl back to you Windows. - Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I agree with you on software availability... though some software are actually a lot better.
When I first started using Linux I was _amazed_ at how incredibly easy software installation/uninstallation is. When I saw APT I was really shocked, and from that point on I knew that I would never switch to windows because installing applications was just too hard there after seeing this.
Linux is also very easy to use... Of course you will hit a few bumps here and there but that's normal. Don't tell me you've never had a problem with Windows? I'm sure you've been infected with a trojan/worm/virus at least, not to mention all the spyware and any problems with BSODs etc that you might have had. Also how many times have things frozen for you? It seems that everytime I boot into windows and open up the network places it freezes. Maybe it's just me not being used to it anymore...
I just noticed that you mentioned Mac OS 9... does that mean that dmg's didn't exist back then? I am currently using Mac OSX on my MacBook and I can say that it is so much easier to install applications there than it is on Windows... you just drag and drop. You still have to search for apps etc though. Linux is the easiest out of the three. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yea there are tons. I was just naming one as an example.
- lyzz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@paulmdx
Your right that it doesn't matter for the out of box experience, but when it comes to everything else it matters a lot. Installing XP from the retail edition is a pain, especially when the computer is using SATA. Grandma will have a easier time installing Linux from the CD than installing Windows and loading 5 device drivers. - Mudbeast, on 10/12/2007, -9/+11@roosterjm2k2
I hate windoze fanboys who make false claims and misspell the word "factual" especially when there is a spellchecker built into this forum... anyway, WINDOWS barely supports any hardware at all. Install it with a generic windows disc and see how many "other devices" with yellow question marks show up in your device manager and then tell me that WINDOWS supports lots of hardware, because it doesnt. If you lose your fancy driver discs you got from dell or hp then you have to do just as much work to hunt them down and make them work as you do in linux.
YOU SIR ARE THE ONE MISLEADING FOLKS. - Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"You download/install an application and have no sign of it. What happened? Where is the shortcut? You have no idea where they are or how to start them."
Most likely it's in the Applications menu ...:|
Seriously though, every standards-compliant (and most are) application will create a .desktop file in the appropriate place or whatever file your DE uses.
As far as binary locations go you really don't need to know that... Most likely they will be in /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin but I have never actually gone into that folder. Same with the library locations. The only time you have to go into the /etc folder is to edit system wide configuration like for Apache or lilo or GDM etc.
I have NEVER had a problem with finding the location of the binary of a program I have installed.
btw. try ALT+F2 and type the name of the program there (you can use tab-completion). Most likely you will be able to launch it that way. Let me see Windows do that! Only Quicksilver on Mac OSX comes close. - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3This article isn't really for complete noobs. It assumes that you have installed Linux.
Otherwise Step 0 would have been something like:
"Lilo or Grub? What the heck are they and which one do I choose for Linux?"
Which was pretty much my reaction the first time I installed Linux.
For the Gnome vs KDE I think one of them is more 'Windows like' (Gnome?) so they should mention that for switchers, that they may find it makes it easier to switch if they are going to something familiar.
The thing they are mostly missing though for people helping noobs to switch is the recommendation of using a bootable CD/DVD distro like Knoppix. As a Linux noob I found that installing and reinstalling and trying to get the sound card and the CD drive to both work at the same time was exceedingly frustrating. Enough so to basically put me off the concept permanently. However I'll quite happily use a well put together Knoppix CD if someone else has done all the necessary tweaking.
It is like if you were trying to interest someone in your model railroads hobby. You don't lock them in a dungeon and not let them out until they've built their first 20 foot perfect scale replica complete with fake erupting volcano and miniature earthquake machine. Even if building your own is 'the fun bit' of the hobby. - t3st3r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm preferring Kubuntu.Imho, KDE rocks.If you used Windows, KDE is definitely your choice.It has similar defaults and UI concepts so you may want to give it a try.Actually, it feels like much more powerful and improved thing."What the OS can be, if lame marketing asses are not disabling good features".
- groggyboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2or YAST/YAST2, or CNR, or yum... =P
- foxhoundadmin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2what if you need to install something that's NOT in the add/remove programs list? then, you have to download the program (which could use ANY number of the MANY linux installer file extensions), and install it (which usually involves opening up terminal, typing in a bunch of commands, like "sudo," and logging in as root). did i mention you have to type in a bunch of commands? no? okay... you'll be typing in a bunch of commands. there. i said it.
- t3st3r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@roosterjm2k2
As for me, my USB bluetooth dongle fails to operate properly in Win XP (SP1 and SP2 tested) - it installs built-in drivers but dongle still does not works.With drivers from additional drivers CD it ... well... somehow works (I have to admit drivers are still bugged a bit).But hey, Kubuntu just boots and works with it.So, there is cases when Linux supports hardware even better.That's ok - nobody is perfect (and I'm nobody :D) - t3st3r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Argh, you occasionally forgot to mention DLLs hell, MSI installer packages hell, .NET crap hell, registry hell and NTFS fragmentation hell.Basically any of these lead to reinstallation of system from scratch since there is no evident and reliable methods with predictable to fix 'em at all.Last one ... results in poor NTFS performance on almost full disks and MS's own defragger is incapable to do anything with it even if space cleaned up.So you have pretty cool choice either to enjoy your HDD works at 1mb/sec reading like ancient 5" 10Mb HDD stuff or you have to buy professionally crafted defragger tool, or just format HDD and begin from scratch.
- Canute, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@JQP123: Really?
There's lots of non free applications in the (ubuntu) repos, for example Opera and lots of codecs. - Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have used the ubuntu and debianhelp forums... both were very friendly. I have yet to see a "RTFM" or similar response... maybe it's because I don't ask totally n00b questions like how do I run application X? Dunno..
- vixenk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2tar.gz - commands needed: "./configure", "make", "make install" OR you can use alien (below) to convert it to a deb *assuming of course that it follows the standard... if it doesn't, blame the person who made the package, not Linux - doing so is equivalent to providing a Windows program without an installer*
rpm - I use a Debian based distro. What do I do? Alien (assuming you have it installed). The command for this is "alien -d filename.rpm".
deb - Just click on the file. ;)
Sorry, but I cannot comprehend how someone could call a max of 3 commands "a BUNCH" of commands. - t3st3r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Hmm, I'm actually capable running Kubuntu and it's graphical package manager ("AddRemove programs") actually rocks.You have to choose what you need, mark it with check boxes and wait a bit.Voila.Done.Let's admit, this thing takes care on dependencies itself.In Windows you have to google programs yourself, install 'em yourself and answer plenty dozen of same questions of setup wizards.So wtf Windows called simple, then?
- foxhoundadmin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1and if there's a program you need to install that's NOT in the add/remove programs list, then you'll be downloading an installer that could be using ANY one of the MANY linux installer file extensions, and using terminal. hope you guys like typing a BUNCH commands. with windows it's just download, double click, and go through the wizard.
i'm not dissing linux. i have the utmost respect for linux as an os; but, for linux as a DESKTOP os, well... that's another story. - seedsgrow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If you ask for help, you're showing weakness, which will result in immediate ridicule, and inevitably being called a "n00b".
I have used three Linux distros, Mandrake (Mandriva), Ubuntu, and PCLinuxOS. I have posted questions asking for help on the forums boards of all three and have never been ridiculed. Instead, I have received quick and, generally, helpful advice. Admittedly, these three distros are generally noted for being especially friendly to newbies and are derided in some Linux circles as being good only for those who have not yet developed enough proficiency to use a more challenging distro. Nevertheless, fear of ridicule need not keep anyone from trying Linux. The generosity in offering helpful advice that the users of the three distros I have used have shown is one of the reasons I prefer using Linux to either MacOSX or Windows. - sc0ri0n, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21) Searching is fun? Oh, puhleease!
I am a huge fan of Linux (ubuntu in particular) and do not mind searching where the application is installed but when I first started using Linux, this was the single biggest challange!
You download/install an application and have no sign of it. What happened? Where is the shortcut? You have no idea where they are or how to start them. I would disagree with author as this is usually painful experience not a satisfying one for newcommers. - chemicalscum, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1What could be easier than apt-get install. Ubuntu wins hands down compared to Windows. I don't know about Mac OS9 I have never used it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Why would you want Linux (har)?
- andrzejptak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Looks like it's up again.
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