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140 Comments
- dagamer34, on 06/15/2009, -3/+119If they article won't say "death to Flash", I will.
DEATH TO FLASH VIDEO! - meridian, on 06/14/2009, -2/+110About time we have some open source video formats that can natively play in an open source browser.
- Langford, on 06/14/2009, -2/+85OGG support is great, APNG is a terrific format, and other stuff too. The main problem is still that a certain widely used competing product will blissfully snub these formats in order to limit their use.
- theblt, on 06/15/2009, -2/+83To make it clear, WebKit already does this and Opera 10 will be too. So this isn't just Firefox giving a new hope for open media. All HTML5 compliant browsers are bringing new hope for open media standards.
Still waiting on you IE8... - hdante, on 06/14/2009, -2/+53So, it's a good time to improve Vorbis with good support for multi-channel compression and Theora with better encoding.
- cheesehound, on 06/15/2009, -1/+46I don't know about you guys, but I prefer the OGC format to OGG, for videos at least.
- MacHarborGuy, on 06/15/2009, -0/+40we'll be waiting quite awhile for IE to catch up, if ever.
- justintime32, on 06/15/2009, -0/+39Technically inaccurate. OGG is a container, not a format. Theora and Vorbis are the formats.
- ArthurSucks, on 06/14/2009, -1/+32The newer theora builds are performing quite well.
- MacHarborGuy, on 06/15/2009, -5/+31what does flash video have to do with anything other than a flash player being the intermediate player software. the High Quality and HD videos on YouTube are most likley H.264 encoded videos using .flv as a wrapper around it. H.264 is used on, gasp, DVD rips on Pirate Bay, as well as all of the videos downloadable on iTunes.
MPEG4 and H.264 are just more widely accepted formats. I can make a video file that plays on my Mac, Windows, iPhone, iPod 30GB, XBox 360, some DVD players, etc.
basically, Flash is really only used as the playback mechanism, much like VLC, but as an embedded browser element via the <object> or <embed> tag. Now we have the <video> tag.
The only thing I am waiting on is if the WordPress group will drop XHTML or at least give their users an easier way to not use XHTML and allow us WordPress developers to use HTML5 and actually "get with the times". - Hraes, on 06/15/2009, -0/+24whoosh
- blaxbb, on 06/15/2009, -1/+25IIRC Google already declared their support of the standard
Google => Youtube => Mainstream - weeFred, on 06/15/2009, -0/+20From the dailymotion blog -
"But wait - the video quality is lower and sound is sometimes crackly…
That’s normal…for now. The new encoding formats we’re using are Ogg, Theora + Vorbis. They’re not yet as good as other common codecs such as H264, ON2 VP6, but they comprise an open format that is not patented, is free to use, and is supported by the Mozilla foundation (http://blog.wikimedia.org/2009/01/26/mozilla-and-w ... So don’t worry - it’s going to improve soon. We have a few tricks to improve the quality, but for the moment re-encoding 300,000 videos in this format forced us to compromise." - KibibyteBrain, on 06/15/2009, -1/+17Perhaps this is why MS has embraced divx/xvid on the 360/Win7. They'd rather see a popular community mpeg4 win if different than a totally open technology promoted by their opponents.
Vorbis is fine, but I personally have doubts about theora since there are so many alternatives that work pretty good right now and are open source, if not totally free of patent controversy. It seems like a riskier move. - lorddazzer, on 06/15/2009, -9/+24See below
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Dailymotion_announces_s ...
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Dailymotion announces support for Open Video! Farewell Flash
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* blog.dailymotion.com - MacHarborGuy, on 06/15/2009, -2/+16.flv is a wrapper format, like .mov (quicktime) and .wmv (windows media)
.flv can easially be an h.264 encoded video, and with YouTube doing HD and HQ videos, more and more then Flash encoded videos are going away and being replaced by real, heavy duty video encoding formats. The wrapper extension around them doesn't really matter. - dafin0, on 06/15/2009, -4/+17AstralKnight thanks you for not posting a anti microsoft/windows story, if you want people to get into Linux and open source this is a much better way of doing it.
- dagamer34, on 06/15/2009, -0/+13The problem with Flash involves more than just the codec itself. It's the performance and openness as well. Consider any mobile device. In order to watch video from a web browser, you have to do either one of two things: a) implement Flash and all of it's performance sucking horrors or b) hope the content you have is in a native form which you can build your own player wrapper around.
The problem with A is that you loose battery life since the CPU is likely doing most of the work instead of the more efficient GPU. The problem with B is that at this point in the life of the Web, most content is in Flash and not using HTML5 + open formats.
It's sad but, until something dramatic happens like YouTube switching to HTML5 and adding bonus features for HTML5 browser users, penetration is going to be very slow marching forward. - aahpandasrun, on 06/15/2009, -3/+16when was the last time you used firefox?
- Bloodwine, on 06/15/2009, -2/+15One of the reasons I got a Rio Karma over its competition was that it supported Ogg Vorbis. However, it is now many years later and I've still never ran across an Ogg Vorbis audio file. Sure, I haven't looked very hard, but Ogg has a long way to go to being a popular format. Hopefully this update to Firefox will further help it along.
- the8thbit, on 06/15/2009, -0/+12There is no Firefox leak, and there hasn't been since version 2.
What happens is that Firefox creates a backlog in your RAM of your history up to five pages for each tab- so If you have 10 tabs open, and you've clicked on at least 5 links in each tab it's really like having 50 pages open, however, one can easily increase or decrease the size of this cache in about:config, and I believe there's an extension that you can install which will like you click a button which simply dumps the cache whenever you started to get bogged down in it. - venomoushealer, on 06/15/2009, -1/+13I think that what that really means is "we're waiting for IE 9"...
- factsahoy, on 06/15/2009, -0/+12Flash VIDEO isn't the problem. It's ***** flash-dependent sites that are the problem and need to be eliminated. You know, the amateur-hour ones that use Flash for the entire UI?
Yes. Those. They suck *****. - AdmiralAcbar, on 06/15/2009, -1/+12Buried for liking IE. Give me standards support or give me death.
- roebeet, on 06/15/2009, -0/+11Here you go:
http://www.archive.org
But, I do agree that OGG Vorbis is not a codec that is even close to mainstream (which is a real shame). - LeekMibles, on 06/15/2009, -1/+12For YouTube videos to play back smoothly I have to close every program and only have Firefox running with that one tab open. If I do that then I can watch an interview and the person's mouth doesn't look like a puppet. For a video with action like, people moving, forget about it. So I'll be happy just being able to watch a video -- never mind all that fancy shmancy resizing madness. I need to upgrade from this Power Book G4 man.
- noisymime, on 06/15/2009, -0/+10Unfortunately mandatory OGG support was removed from HTML5 after Nokia and Apple lobbied the W3C :(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogg_controversy_%28HT ... - whatit, on 06/15/2009, -0/+10http://people.xiph.org/%7Egreg/video/ytcompare/com ...
It's gotten a lot better. When I used to encode amine I seemed to gain better quality out of h264 in the lower bitrates's (around 200-300) range. But from the comparison it looks wonderful. - KloroFormd, on 06/15/2009, -0/+9You can't have h.264 support in an open source browser.
You CAN have OGG Vorbis/Theora.
You CAN'T STANDARDIZE a patent-encumbered format.
Guess what option is the only viable one? - KloroFormd, on 06/15/2009, -2/+10YouTube's HTML5 demonstration uses h.264 and only works in Chrome and Safari.
"Don't be evil" my ass. This will make Firefox require Flash player while the above listed browsers can do it without. - MacHarborGuy, on 06/15/2009, -0/+8true, however most video encoding software available has MPEG4 and H.264 listed separately. HandBrake, for example, has MPEG4 listed twice, one the XVid encoder version, and the FFMPEG encoder version, and then the third selection is H.264.
sure they are all still part of this MPEG-4, Part 10, Layer 3, Game 12, Bottom of the 9th, Bases Loaded, Sham-a-lang-a-ding-dong spec, but really who cares? XD - balla786, on 06/15/2009, -1/+9Dugg for OGC
- gkskillz, on 06/15/2009, -2/+10So FF3.5 kind of does this right now. At least on an Apple machine, you can pull a tab out and it creates a new window for that tab, you can also place a tab back into an existing window. It does refresh the page however, and the UI polish is pretty poor, so it's not an ideal solution.
- mithrasinvictus, on 06/15/2009, -0/+8Doing it secretly would be an ***** move, but doing it openly: "Warning! your PC is infected with proprietary formats! This wizard will repair them for you" and then only a next button would probably work.
- TVarmy, on 06/15/2009, -1/+8Firefox 3.5 adds support for the relevant tags. Firefox 3.0 does not support the video tag yet. It is part of the standard, but the key thing is that Firefox is a major browser, so it can help push for other, competing browsers (mainly IE, Safari's already got HTML5 support) to implement the feature. This means less use of proprietary plugins like Flash.
- darkfate, on 06/15/2009, -0/+7Except it's h.264 and not OGG. If YouTube uses h.264 instead of OGG, then that's a loss.
- Hellahulla, on 06/15/2009, -0/+7Is it irony that the Linux version of FF is pretty sucky in comparison to the Windows version? Still, nowhere near as bad as it WAS on Mac.
- TVarmy, on 06/15/2009, -0/+7I've heard part of the problem is that OGG files tend to eat more battery life in portable media players than MP3/AAC/WMA files because it takes more processing to decompress. Is this true, and a problem inherent to the format, or is it just a matter of how the hardware is optimized to decode MP3s and other common formats through hardware decoders and/or better software programming?
I think a big thing keeping it from catching on is the fact that MP3, WMA, and AAC are still de facto free formats for most users, as they can download the players and encoders for free and copy the files without any trouble with DRM. Further, there's not really much more tangible benefit to be had over what these formats offer. Almost everyone is happy with the existing clarity of the sound above 192 kbps or so, and disk space usage is pretty trivial when a song is about 4 MBs, and a laptop can come with a 500 GB hard drive. - DonutGuy, on 06/15/2009, -0/+6By natively, how native is that?
Is it using gstreamer, or some other media framework, or attempting to do it all itself? - DonutGuy, on 06/15/2009, -0/+6It isn't about innovation, it's about standardisation. The whole reason Berners-Lee invented the web was because everyone was using different formats he would constantly need to convert, or have the software to read (which can cost money). HTML was set out to be a standardised way of presenting data, so everyone could read it.
When you're relying on non standard formats like flash, that standardisation means nothing. You can't view half the content unless Adobe wishes it for you, which is particularly troubling for developers and users of mobile devices. A standardised video format like this would enable them to rid theirselves of Adobe and make content that everyone can view, regardless of the machine/OS they're using.
The advantage might not be so clear to the average Windows user, but they'll probably notice their browser crashing less often (because Flash breaks things), and their videos won't have the awful choppy framerate flash likes to render. - TVarmy, on 06/15/2009, -0/+6What's bad is that so often the interface for the flash video players suck. Sometimes they lack features like a seek bar, sometimes they preload too little and have choppy playback, and sometimes they just plain don't work with your setup, despite them having a perfectly common video file behind the UI. Being able to use Firefox's video player, or a plugin/extension from a video player I know works well on my computer, would save bandwidth and make it much more easy to watch videos.
- jack2454, on 06/15/2009, -3/+8how about having Chrome tab. like pulling tabs and putting them back in.
- Antialias, on 06/15/2009, -0/+5That's odd, I can get smooth full screen flash on my ibook G3 700 mhz, not the hq videos though. Not my primary machine but it still works in a "netbook" fashion for checking sites around the house and such.
- the8thbit, on 06/15/2009, -0/+5There is no Firefox leak, and there hasn't been since version 2.
What happens is that Firefox creates a backlog in your RAM of your history up to five pages for each tab- so If you have 10 tabs open, and you've clicked on at least 5 links in each tab it's really like having 50 pages open, however, one can easily increase or decrease the size of this cache in about:config, and I believe there's an extension that you can install which will like you click a button which simply dumps the cache whenever you started to get bogged down in it.
Also, Firefox used to crash for me every few page loads, and then I reinstalled it and it hasn't crashed since. (It's been about a month now.) I'm not sure why that is, but you might want to try reinstalling. Maybe it's a ***** extension? - the8thbit, on 06/15/2009, -0/+5There is no Firefox leak, and there hasn't been since version 2.
What happens is that Firefox creates a backlog in your RAM of your history up to five pages for each tab- so If you have 10 tabs open, and you've clicked on at least 5 links in each tab it's really like having 50 pages open, however, one can easily increase or decrease the size of this cache in about:config, and I believe there's an extension that you can install which will like you click a button which simply dumps the cache whenever you started to get bogged down in it. - deadguysleeps, on 06/15/2009, -1/+6i wonder why some Flash/wmv/etc haters don't develop a virus that runs secretly in the background (on some ignorant Windows users who like to click on unknown links or go to porn sites), that converts their flv/wmv files (in their hard disk) into ogg & then delete the original flv/wmv files?
- inactive, on 06/15/2009, -0/+5No, open source formats are more important than fixing a problem that people have been bitching about for years.
- AzzX, on 06/15/2009, -4/+9OGG ftw!
- winterspan, on 06/16/2009, -0/+4Flash and Silverlight will remain the popular mechanism of video transmission at least in commercial applications because the closed plugins can enforce things like mandatory viewing of advertising in video clips ala Hulu.
- ArthurSucks, on 06/15/2009, -1/+5Your inability to read made you miss the point of what he was saying. He said "portable device." Therefore he meant Ogg Vorbis audio. Vorbis out performs Mp3 and AAC.
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