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39 Comments
- bigtrouble77, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13People don't find vmware user friendly?
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Last time I booted it up.......which was about 30 seconds ago.
- mooninite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6KVM will allow true hardware virtualization. VMWare doesn't do true hardware virtualization. In fact, when was the last time you heard of a program that used the new hardware virtualization in the Core 2 chips?
Enjoy Windows while it lasts. - sinembarg0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5KVM - It's a virtual KVM Switch in the kernel!
- thudbar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I'm digging your comment simply because of that ASCII quotation box.
- tocleora, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6dkoon: why are you even viewing this thread? It's clear you don't know what you are talking about. That's like someone saying "I can't get [this].exe installed" and someone going "OMG, someone said they can't get Windows installed?!". If you were familiar with linux at all you would have known that. It's best to only include yourself in conversations you can offer valuable input in.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Seriously. My 16 year old waws smart enough not to load Windows Vista beta on his own system when he was curious about it, so he downloaded the free VMWare Server and tried it out with that instead. More kudos to him for passing on Vista and deleting the VM when he was done with it.
- cricketsymphony, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5while an interesting development in the linux world, i don't see how KVM is (or isn't) 'user-friendly'. the article discusses the technical elements, not the interface at all.
@bigtrouble77, amen. - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8KVM is wonderful, but I'm not sure about the "finally" part of the title. Xen has been user-friendly for quite some time. Red Hat catches up with Novell in that respect.
Xen GUI In Fedora Core 6
,----[ Quote ]
| The new version (6) of Fedora Core, which became available for
| download in November, shows that major Linux vendors see the
| importance of virtualisation and virtual private servers in
| years to come.
|
| Xen in Fedora Core 6 comes with a GUI named Virtual Machine
| Manager.
`----
http://www.webpronews.com/expertarticles/expertarticles/wpn-62-20061129XenGUIinFedoraCore6.html - sishgupta, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5dkoon: PEBKAC
- malkir, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Why not? It's not as if using a virtualized OS is difficult or something.
- perrupa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4It might have been nicer if they had chosen an acronym that didn't already exist. When I hear KVM I automatically think of a KVM switch which can be defined as follows for those of you unawares...
"A Keyboard, Video, Mouse (KVM) switch allows a single keyboard, video display monitor, and mouse to be switched to any of a number of computers when typically a single person interacts with all the computers but only one at a time. The switch provides more table space in addition to saving the cost of multiple keyboards and monitors." - JoeUser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3KVM uses a slightly modified QEmu for it's front end and for it's disk images. There are several gui front ends for Qemu that would work if you absolutely need one but I'm running KVM now and making a zsh/bash alias or shell script for each VM isn't a difficult task. Now I type winxp and Windows starts, bsd and FreeBSD starts, mac and OpenDarwin starts, ros and ReactOS starts. How could that be anymore user friendly unless you don't have fingers to type with?
As for the use of certain CPU's, that's required for Virtualization. It's the same thing with Xen to run unmodified guests but with KVM because it uses QEmu it will fall back to QEmu's emulation if the KVM kernel module couldn't be loaded so your guest OS will still start and QEmu with the KQemu accelerator (their equivalent to VMWare Tools) still runs quiet well.
I've tried quiet a few different emulators and virtualizers. VMWare never stops accessing the disk even when the guest is idle. Xen was a nightmare to setup. KVM was a breeze and shows definite promise for the future. I run it regularly with 2 or 3 VM's running for testing and QA and it's very nice. - trollenlord, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"I'm guessing that KVM will not be as fast as vmware on my P4 2.8 GHz and P3 450 MHz (since the processors are much older than those of late)."
Guessing? It will not run on your P4. At all. Not on your P3 either. - NedSlider, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3With KVM, Xen and VMWare, it certainly looks like virtualization is set to be the hot topic of 2007. I wonder how well Longhorn's proposed hypervisor will shape up.
Another nail in the Windows coffin with regards to the server market, me thinks :) - JoeUser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3KVM already has this "Optimized MMU virtualization" in progress now and I see alot of activity for it in the commit logs
http://kvm.sourceforge.net/status.html
It should be interesting to see how much that improves performance. - nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3it's not as easy to install as 'apt-get install kvm qemu' ... there's no arguing with that. that's his sole reason for calling it user-friendly. I agree with him on that but he should have worded it differently.
- mouseclone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have seen people talk about user friendly and not user friendly. Software is hard to install and not hard to install. Would you like to know the problem?
The problem is that no one takes much time to write an install script. Would make it really easy to write a bash script that did the 'apt-get install ran a few dependency scripts to check for things and then installed.
The best software for linux that i have had the pleasure of working with lately is Scalix. Nice little GUI to guide you along the way. I'm in no way a Super User when it comes to Linux. I'm not stupid either. I could have ran the command line version of it. but it was nice to just run a shell script to get the whole thing going. It didn't download java, or apache, or anything like that .. but it did tell you that you needed it.
point being apt-get is user friendly, even more so in a GUI based format. Linux is getting there. Debugging in Linux or M$ is not user friendly. Users will run a program until it crashes. Then they will just reinstall. if it still doesn't work they take it to a shop to have it fixed. Most Linux users will try and fix it them selves because the local computer shop doesn't understand it.
I'm looking forward tot he day where OS is a choice on PCs bought from dell, and hp. until that time i will still uninstall windows and install Linux or run dual boot. As far as V-KVM switch inside of my Linux OS. I'm all for it. So will people that do cross platform programming. - Himself, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"[Linux] shows a real potential."
- felderado, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2i use Linux basically whenever I'm not playing a game. So that's 3/4 of my computer usage.
- vmmaniac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Most comments I've read here so far tend to trivialize the very complex science of virtualization, especially around performance. This stuff is way more difficult than it really seems. Check out this paper: http://www.vmware.com/pdf/asplos235_adams.pdf. It describes the measurable difference of using software-based VMM vs. a 1st gen hardware assisted one. The result? *very* similar performance. One may ask why, considering that VT and SVM provide real hardware assistance today. In reality, most of the performance degradation does NOT come from CPU-bound workloads, but MMU-bound ones (memory) as well as disk and network I/O, and *today's* version of VT do not provide any help on this. Both, Intel and AMD are working already on their next generation hardware assistance technology that will include MMU and eventually I/O virtualization. When that happen, we'll *really* see no difference of virtual vs. native.
- sinembarg0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1But it's like a kvm switch, but in the kernel, and all software. It's kind of cool and funny thinking about it like that.
- tocleora, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5I'm in Linux right now. Although different distros work better for different people and I'm not saying this will be the best for you, the one that was the easiest to install *for me* was Ubuntu. You should try it, it couldn't be any simpler.
- alexandreracine, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I am using Ubuntu right now and it is pretty user friendly. I currently even have to remember that I am using a Linux distro since it is pretty easy to use. There are some things that is better with GNU/Linux, some things that I witch was there, but overall, I really like it! Better then Windows XP? Yes!
- khyron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Choosing an acronym that's confusing isn't going to help adoption if they're trying to put themselves out there as an alternative to vmware, though. Even if sysadmins do chuckle about it after it's explained, it still overlaps with a term they confuse their bosses with everyday. This makes them more like to suggest vmware to those bosses than try to explain the two KVMs to them.
- nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1you mean core 2 duo
- Kamisado, on 01/31/2008, -0/+1For anyone reading this now, which I sincerely doubt, I am now a full time Ubuntu user. I've got it on my desktop and laptop, and I'm now convincing people that it is in fact user friendly, and to try it out.
Amazing what can change in just over a year! - felderado, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2and the big boys by VMWare like their ESX products run on........ *drumroll*.... LINUX
- FKnight, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@felderado
"and the big boys by VMWare like their ESX products run on........ *drumroll*.... LINUX"
*drumroll* ..... WRONG.
VMware ESX/Infrastructure runs on a proprietary kernel which is not based on Linux and uses it's own native file system. A Linux virtual machine is used for console access to administer the system. The only other Linux that's built in is simply used as a boot loader, sitting in the same corner that DOS sat in with Windows 95.
VMware ESX is NOT Linux based. Please don't perpetuate this lie. - rmccs0x, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1xen
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4rpm -Uvh vmware*.rpm
./vmware-config.pl
I would have been interested to see vmware in the graphs.
I'm guessing that KVM will not be as fast as vmware on my P4 2.8 GHz and P3 450 MHz (since the processors are much older than those of late). - kwilliam, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"I'm guessing that KVM will not be as fast as vmware on my P4 2.8 GHz and P3 450 MHz (since the processors are much older than those of late)."
Yes, my understanding is that KVM uses Intel and AMD's new Virtualization processor instructions, and will only run on recent processors, like Core Duo. - 4degrees, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1FTA: "I suppose that this, together with the fact than no proprietary software or binary kernel modules is needed, explains why I call it user-friendly."
...What? Nice specification of "user-friendly" - furryball, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Where are the gui tools? Doesn't sound "user-friendly" to me. Furthermore, KVM requires certain features from the CPU and does not work without them. Not all of even today sold CPUs have those virtualization features. Doesn't sound quite "user-friendly" again.
- FKnight, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3Yeah, all I did was double click on the VMware setup.exe, configure virtual machines, and now I have 20 servers spread out amongst 8 physical servers. If one of those physical servers goes bad, I click a button and my VMs magically move to another physical server.
It's nice that KVM "shows some potential" ... but up here in 2006, we're busy working with products that are already done.
EDIT: Stupid abbreviation too. - gerryk, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0It's virtualisation ffs! It's hardly consumer grade technology anyhow. If you're not tech savvy enough to apt-get/yum/rpm/portage/whatever and edit a few config files, are you really ready to be messing around with virtualisation?
- Kamisado, on 10/12/2007, -16/+2Since when has ANYTHING in Linux been user-friendly?
- dkoon, on 10/12/2007, -20/+2omg someone said it's not easy to install software in linux!?
- dkoon, on 10/12/2007, -28/+4i suggest you guys make Linux user friendly first.
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