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Fedora Community Guy Needs Serious Medical Help

jaboutboul.blogspot.com — Jack had an adverse reaction to a dangerous class of antibiotics called Fluoroquinolones, which include Cipro, Levaquin and in his case, Avelox. Side effects have been known to kill people. Jack needs serious medical help and the clock is ticking, lets help him out and educate ourselves about these dangerous and often fatal drugs.

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  • doughardison, on 10/12/2007, -2/+31Ugh. Terrible to hear. Get well soon...
    • fober, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Good luck Jack!
    • jasz, on 10/12/2007, -25/+6I know I'm going to get dugg down for this but I can't resist:
      "I am Jack's poisoned stomach"

      Well I hope Jack gets better, I've heard this condition is not life-threatening but he definitely needs to see a specialist.
    • moman, on 10/12/2007, -4/+24I know Jack Aboutboul personally (good friend, he helped me get a few jobs). He is a great guy, and I pray that he gets better. Please everybody show your support, even if it just is to send him a "get well" email. I'm sure he (and I) will appreciate it immensely.
    • SirGrok, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3@Jasz
      Don't worry. If you hadn't done it, I would have.
      @Jack
      I hope that everything works out alright. Don't swear off prescriptions all together, just do what you used to do: Read up before taking any.
    • randomgeek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"Jack needs serious medical help and the clock is ticking, lets help him out and educate ourselves about these dangerous and often fatal drugs."

      Huh? This is a good story about a known figure in the Linux community and what he's currently going through, we all feel for him I'm sure, but that line in the summary makes no sense at all. How is reading about possible side effects of a drug helping Jack?
    • sporkmonger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@Jack

      You're probably going to be just fine, but you should still submit a report @ http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/
    • randomgeek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Eh, replying to myself but to clarify - how does a mass of "general people" on digg reading about a condition get him help? He obviously needs a professional, not some kids reading about medications. A better statement would have been, "If anyone knows a professional that deals with these types of conditions, let Jack know".
    • sporkmonger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Also, according to the FDA ( http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/SAFETY/2002/apr02.htm#cipro ) taking anything with calcium will reduce absorption of the drug. That notice was for Cipro, but should hold true for Avelox as well I assume. But I suspect that at this point, it won't matter much.
    • KaserPro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"lets help him out and educate ourselves about these dangerous and often fatal drugs"

      If they were that bad then they'd be called poison.

      if you having the flu (granted E.N.T. is diffrent) why did you take antibiotics for a virus?
    • Dolomite, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I am at a loss trying to undertstand why he took these particular drugs???? I feel bad for him, but its obvious he didnt really know what he was doing and should have consulted a professional first.
    • samnetwork, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://www.duggmirror.com/linux_unix/Fedora_Community_Guy_Needs_Serious_Medical_Help
  • TylerC, on 10/12/2007, -13/+2Opps.
  • fche, on 10/12/2007, -18/+4> [...] lets help him out [...]

    How?
    • LavaHot, on 10/12/2007, -18/+5Yes, that's what I was wondering. How will us knowing about this poisoning help him? How does spreading awareness cure him? Not to sound like a jerk, but maybe he should, you know, see a doctor. Get well soon.
    • sism3477, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Do you people even read the articles before you decide to comment? He clearly stated how you may help him in the article. All he wants is for someone who has had prior exposure to this condition to let him know of possible treatments. Also he did go to a doctor ... that's who did this to him.
    • randomgeek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3First, the Dr didn't *do* anything to him. The Dr made a mistake as we all do. Second, I wondered the same thing as the previous two posters did: How does some people on digg reading about medication side effects help him? It doesn't. Jack is making a plea for a doctor or other professional to help him and if anyone knows of one, to tell him. What he doesn't need are 14 year old digg users that went and read the PI sheet on the drug telling him what they think.
  • jaboutboul, on 10/12/2007, -5/+62I'm urgently trying to find a doctor or scientists or someone who is familiar with fluoroquinolone poisoning and adverse reactions who will be able to help me treat the pathology, not just the symptoms as they arise. The problem with just treating the symptoms is that bad reactions to this type of drug occur from what is thought to be fluoride poisoning. Fluoride, as the geekier amongst us will know, is notorious for binding to bone and is NOTORIOUSLY hard to remove from the body. What happens as a result of that is that it makes its way into the Central Nervous System and triggers all kinds of crazy symptoms, such as panic attacks, tingling in nerves, etc. some of which I am experiencing now. The true problem though is that sometimes the fluoride or whatever it is that lingers in the system will not interact with the body or nervous system for sometimes, months and even years after you have been "floxed" as they call it.

    You try going to a doctor a year after a medication and explaining to him how the things happening to you now are due to a medicine taken 6 months or a year ago. You'll be in the psych ward quicker than you can say it.

    That's why I need to find an expert on this who can tell me what systems in my body I need to test right away, how to detoxify myself, how to treat what happened to me and not just the symptoms that arise, and also what preventative measures I need to take to prevent anything serious from happening.
    • samnetwork, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinolone :

      Adverse effects

      Quinolone antibiotics were once considered relatively safe, but several side effects have become evident with experience. For example, numerous case reports have implicated their use since 1965 in spontaneous tendon ruptures or damage, especially with the concurrent use of a systemic corticosteroid. In the fall of 2004, the Food and Drug Administration upgraded the warnings found within the package inserts for all drugs within this class regarding such serious adverse reactions.

      * Peripheral neuropathy (nerve damage): "Rare cases of sensory or sensor motor axonal polyneuropathy affecting small and or large axons resulting in paresthesias, hypoaesthesias, dysesthesias, and weakness have been reported in patients taking quinolones. Therapy should be discontinued if the patient experiences symptoms of neuropathy including pain, burning, tingling, numbness and or weakness or is found to have deficits in light touch, pain, temperature, position sense, vibratory sensation, and or motor strength in order to prevent the development of an irreversible condition."

      * Tendon damage: "Ruptures of the shoulder, hand, Achilles tendon or other tendons that require surgical repair or resulted in prolonged disability have been reported in patients receiving quinolones. Post-marketing surveillance reports indicate that this risk may be increased in patients receiving concomitant corticosteroids, especially the elderly. Fluoroquinolone therapy should be discontinued if the patient experiences pain, inflammation, or rupture of a tendon. Patients should rest and refrain from exercise until diagnosis of tendonitis or tendon rupture had been excluded. Tendon rupture can occur during or after therapy with quinolones."

      Other problems include:

      * Heart problems (prolonged QT Interval / Torsades de pointes)
      * Pseudomembranous colitis
      * Rhabdomyolysis (breakdown of muscle tissue)
      * Stevens-Johnson syndrome
      * Lowered seizure threshold

      Maybe the Doctors from the "External Links" on Wikipedia can help you.
      Or maybe this: http://www.fqresearch.org/
    • SteveMax, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Might also help you: http://fqvictims.org/fqvictims/index.htm
      Good luck.
    • ncdoyle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5This article caught my attention because I think I've taken Cipro, Levaquin and Avelox at different points when working on a chronic sinus infection problem a year and a half ago. (Since fixed with surgery)

      I had no idea that people had problems with them. I had zero problems, other than the standard body chemistry issues with antibiotics. I do remember that the drug information from the pharmacist warned about the risk of tendon injury (I avoided the gym while taking them). They really worked well at clearing up my infections.

      These custom antibiotics are pretty pricey too... including dispensing fee, I think they worked out to about $6 CDN/pill ($60 for a 10 day supply).
    • Nysul, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3Chelation may be beneficial, either EDTA or DMSA. What you want to do is find a science-oriented naturopathic doctor (if they are licensed in your state, otherwise don't bother) or CAM-oriented MD.

      If you throw out what state you are in I can give out recommendations.
    • insomuchas, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3Fluoride is very bad for you.
      First of all stop drinking fluoridated water NOW.
      Stop using fluoridated toothpaste NOW.
      Stop eating inorganic wheat, nuts and dried fruit NOW.
      Do not under any circumstances drink ANY Tea.
      Do the above to stop intake of more fluoride and never stop doing them ever.
      Now to detoxify yourself of fluoride, you need Calcium, Magnesium and Selenium supplements.
      Start taking them now and Id suggest long after you feel better.

    • ubuwalker31, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Dude, find a specialist on the drug you took, and seek his treatment. Check out http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=pubmed&term=avelox+safety&tool=fuzzy&ot=Avelox+saftey and see if you can find where these researchers have offices. Or, go to a university hospital and have tests done.
    • Joyrex, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2Perhaps you should seek a homeopath, and see what natural cures are available. Don't listen to what these fools are saying here - it was traditional medicine that got you into this mess in the first place.
    • insomuchas, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4Also Ive posted about the dangers of fluoride poisoning on Digg before and got nothing but ridiculed. Dont expect any other digg users to have a ***** clue.
    • NealV, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I do not doubt you had a (somewhat severe) reaction to the medication, but I do not think you have fluoride poisoning. The amount of fluorine atoms present in the pills you took is not enough for poisoning (you ingest more fluorine in a glass of city tap water) and of course those atoms are not free fluoride, most all of it is chemically bound. In other words, the fluorine is negligible.

      However, there is a potential here that you had a severe allergic reaction to the medicine. Still, I would absolutely be discussing this with doctors. And to say you will never take medications again is completely asinine. Untreated infections always have the potential to spread, and some day your life may very well require medications. Allergic reactions, unfortunately, can only be determined by exposure - which is why if you believe a medicine is making you sick, you need to call the doctor proscribing it IMMEDIATELY. If you bounce around between E.R. docs, its hard for them to get a feel of your medical history. Not to mention that E.R. docs are really more focused on emergencies and quick fix solutions, your physician is better suited to helping you with this.
    • Jeffmr1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Jack

      Sadly not even a doctor, let alone you armed with webmd, could diagnose exactly what happened to you in one sitting, so youre not gonna find someone to give you an imediate diagnosis or solution. If youre looking for "preventative maintenence" type mediicine, find a D.O. (Doctor of Osteopathy). They're the same thing as an MD except they tend to try and prevent illness where possible, rather than just treat symptoms.
    • geekitechture, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I learned the hard way that Cipro is a drug with bad side effects, at least for *some* people. Three years ago I got a nasty tooth infection (with swelling and abscess) but I was too *busy* to take time off work and have it treated properly so I took my friend's leftover Cipro instead. Withing one day of taking it my body had swollen to almost twice it's size, and my skin turned bright red and felt crisp and *burnt* from head to toe. Within another day the skin on my face and mouth cracked open and started peeling off in thick wads, so I couldn't eat or drink anything because it hurt so much. The next day I went to the emg. room and they gave me a steroid shot to bring the swelling down and told me to chuck the Cipro, blaming it for my reaction. I was given a prescription for good old-fashioned penicillin and 600 mg ibuprofen pills for pain, and a steroid cream for my skin...but my face was so wrecked from the reaction I had to wash it in plain water (no soap) and moisturize it with olive oil for a week, even the cream was too much for it. It was a nightmare but it taught me my lesson well:

      1) Never borrow your friend's medication. Cipro had absolutely no bad effect on him, but it almost killed me.

      2) When you do have an adverse reaction to an antibiotic, it's just off the chain how bad and scary it can be.

      Luckily I had no lasting bad effects from the incident, outside of three days missed work thanks to the Cipro reaction.
    • Klinky, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0You need to definitely start taking B vitamins. The B-Complex of vitamins are very helpful in restoring damaged tissue, B-12 is especially helpful for Nerve tissue. Too much is hard on your digestive system, so smaller dosages and working your way up is a good idea. I don't really have any experience with this specific problem. I've been dealing with Gastroparesis, which is nerve/muscle damage of the stomach(very *****). I am slowly recovering. A quarter of my tongue(used to be half) is numb & senses no taste because when my wisdom teeth were being yanked it damaged one of my oral nerves. This wasn't really the fault of the dentist, it's just the roots were hooked near the nerve. That is slowly healing too.

      It may take a long time to heal completely. I hope to make a full recovery eventually here. Positive thinking and hoping for the best along with B vitamins, did more for me than the doctors I saw.
    • samnetwork, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moxifloxacin

      Side effects

      Possible side effects include gastrointestinal tract disturbances (nausea, vomiting, anorexia, bloating, abdominal pain, diarrhea, and pseudomembranous colitis caused by Clostridium difficile), skin reactions (also Stevens-Johnson syndrome), rhabdomyolysis, and serious heart problems (prolonged QT interval and torsades de pointes). Development of resistance has been noticed as well as rare cases of hepatotoxicity and seizures. Tendon rupture (including rupture of the Achilles tendon) can also occur.

      Moxifloxacin may have a much higher attack rate of Clostridium difficile than other respiratory quinolones, such as levofloxacin.[7]
  • samnetwork, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Oh god. Poor Jack. I really hope you get well soon
  • MadOtaku, on 10/12/2007, -14/+5This is very sad, but with an unprofessional title like that, I thought you were joking.
  • kevin45, on 10/12/2007, -8/+25Quick, everyone plug in your PS3s!
  • ALoserIsYou, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19Paging Dr. House
    • SLYK, on 10/12/2007, -7/+7can cuddy come too??

      please?
    • LavaHot, on 10/12/2007, -11/+2Yes, because a British actor can really help the situation, or can he?... "TiiIIMmeeE"
    • Kisama, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Remember, it's never Lupus.
    • samnetwork, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Seriously, thats the first thing that came to mind after reading the article.
  • RadioFreeOpium, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6Very unfortunate. It is so true that side effects really need to be made more clear. I once took a prescription drug called prednisone (sp?) and it really messed me up. I later found out it is one of the most dangerous prescription medicines on the market and you are virtually guaranteed to have at least one nasty side effect. For me it was extreme sensitivity to light, insomnia, paranoia, and mild hallucinations. I threw out the pills before I finished the treatment.
    • Fhionnlaoch, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11My dad took that too and nearly went blind, except for the few surgies that preserved his sight. It also caused his finger nails to rot away for no reason. The good news was, however, that it sent his kidney disease into remission so he didn't need to go on dialysis.

      I suppose you have to weight your options with taking any medication.

    • tonton2012, on 10/12/2007, -11/+3You got dugg down? Seems like the pharmaceutical industries have alot of employees who use Digg.
    • sersdf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5predinose is a ridiculously important antiflammatory corticosteroid used for an enormous range of diseases. any healthcare worker will tell you it should not be used chronically for many serious side effects including severe immune suppression. but that doesn't mean it's a bad drug. every drug out there has side effects, some wise man once said any substance can be a poison in the right quantity.

      @tonton. you're an idiot if you think any big industry except maybe tech has people working at or manipulating digg
    • millerbrad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Prescription drugs are only available through a prescription, quite often, because they HAVE these side effects. Prednisone can have all the side effects you mentioned. It can also cause osteoporosis and give you a buffalo hump (if you take it for a long enough time). However, it also helps people breathe, reduces dangerous inflammatory reactions, helps prevent rejection of donated organs.

      Drugs are good and bad. It's a doctor's job to weigh the risks & benefits for giving the drug to a patient.

      @tonton2012 -- The drug companies don't care about prednisone anymore. They make MAYBE a penny per pill, because it's generically available, and it has been for-freakin'-ever.
    • triscuitbiscuit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Radio- that was a big big mistake just throwing them out and that could have contributed some... When taking prednisone you have to be very careful in not only taking the right doses but doing them at the right time...

      However I would like to say that there are side effects for any drugs and these people just are the vocal minority that have had these side effects. I am can't wake Amoxicillin but I am not posting webpages about it... It is the risk inherent in taking prescription medications. Sure billions of dollars go into developing them but they are not perfect and probably will never be perfect.
    • kelson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Prednisone is a very effective anti-inflammatory drug, for *short term* use. It's a steroid, though, which means two things: long-term use is likely to have side effects, and you *really* don't want to stop cold turkey -- that can mess you up even worse.

      Whenever I've been prescribed it (which admittedly hasn't been for about 8 years or so), it's been a short regimen, on the order of 5-7 days, with a decreasing dosage each day. It would start at, say, 4 pills on the first day, then slowly work down to 1 pill on the last day.
  • Oktober, on 10/12/2007, -19/+10asshat has bad drug reaction at 24, dies of ear infection at 25

    he should be smarter than this

    find a better doctor, don't swear off modern medicine entirely
  • nightsweat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Why on Earth would his doctor have started him on those? That class of drugs is a set that's used for last resort, not first. If you don' t have a superbug there's no reason to break out the Cipro.

    I've had doctors give me sulfa and penicillin and they worked fine for what I had. There's more to this story, somehow.
    • bkedelen, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21The doctor gave him a much more serious prescription than he needed because like many hypochondriacs he exaggerated his symptoms and misrepresented the treatment he had already received.
    • tonton2012, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4Those new set of golf clubs aren't going to pay for themselves sonny!
    • tonton2012, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3@bkedelen: that's the most asinine thing I have read today. So you're basically saying that the doctor prescribed him serious prescription based solely on the patient's account? Shouldn't doctors be doing extensive laboratory testing before doing this? Or maybe they are just prescribing these medications because they get a good kickback from the pharmaceutical companies. Gotta pay for the new Mercedes somehow.
    • Jeffmr1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@tonton2012

      Extensive testing? Not only is that outrageously expensive, but it would take days to get the results back and the infection could have spread. So yes, the doctor did the correct thing by referring to the patients own account. I'm sorry, but I'd have to say that Jack was at fault for arbitrarily taking some old medication that he had left over (you should never have left over antibiotics, because you're supposed to take them all) before heading to the doctor. Also, doctor's don't get kickbacks from drug companies anymore. In fact, drug companies can't even give out office supplies anymore in some states. From this story, all i see is some guy who is self diagnosing when it could be a host of other things. Even if it was the antibiotic, you take risks every time you pop a pill and it sucks that he happened to end up paying for it.
    • dbisping, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2the doctor prescribed the indicated medication. it's how that works.

      if you are being prescribed sulfa drugs and penicillin then you don't have a bacterial infection. the original antibiotics haven't worked well in decades and are likely not to work at all now. that and they have LOTS of allergy/intolerance problems that the newer drugs shouldn't. usually, the ineffective drugs are prescribed to make people shut up and deal with something that will go away all by itself.

      due to over prescribing and industrial/agricultural misuse, you should consider most infections to be "super-bugs" if you want to get well.

      the side effects are quite possibly an indication that the antibiotic drug is functioning rather than a reason to check to see if the sky is falling. what do you think happens to the little critters causing the problem? after all, the stuff is POISON that you have to put into your body to KILL microbes.
    • nightsweat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@dbisping -Yes, overuse of many antibiotics have caused resistance to evolve, but dscontinuation of those drugs have caused resistance to wane.

      Using the last line of drugs as a first resort is a sure way to evolve bacteria we have NO defense against.

      I can assure you, it takes a hell of a lot for me to go to a doctor (to the point that I found out that a "sprained" ankle I chose to treat myself was revealed by an x-ray years later to have been broken in two places. It healed fine, however). I'm no hypochodriac and the doctor did not give me sulfa and penicillin just to get rid of me. Sulfa is still used extensively for urinary tract infections and against fungal infections.
  • bkedelen, on 10/12/2007, -7/+28Stated fear of medication, overgeneralized psychological symptoms, unscientific self-diagnosis. Yes surree we got ourselves some hypochondria. I am sorry that this medication has prompted anxiety for you, but this class of drugs are prescribed and save lives all the time. Problems such as these are statistically very unlikely. Drugs are not perfect, sorry to break it to you. All they do is help millions of people all over the world the vast majority of the time.
    • tonton2012, on 10/12/2007, -13/+4You don't happen to work for the pharmaceutical industry do you? If you read his post you should note that they did find a hole in his diaphragm and that he had tachycardia. Either you didn't read that or you don't know what hypochondria means.

    • sporkmonger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Actually, no, not likely to be a hypochondriac. Fluorine is seriously dangerous stuff, and while obviously the drug molecules that contain fluorine are significantly less dangerous than the raw stuff since they're not nearly as reactive, virtually every fluorine-related drug has serious risks associated with it. Just the other day Wired was running an article on fluoride based gas anesthetics that seem to be accelerating plaque build up on neurons and hastening the onset of Alzheimer's and other neurological disorders.
    • d3dm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Sure. Tell that to the people who took Vioxx.

      Or tell it to the families of the 225,000 that are killed each year in the U.S. due to doctors' mistakes: http://www.healingdaily.com/Doctors-Are-The-Third-Leading-Cause-of-Death-in-the-US.htm
    • facted, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Flurorine does have toxicity. However, Fluroquinolones have toxicity that in reality is relatively different from that of raw fluroine. They have the word "fluro" in them, but don't be confused. Fluroquinoles' main side effects are tendon destruction as well as polyneuropathy, which aren't such common side effects. In fact, there are very few patients for which these drugs are contraindicated and the main one is pregnant women because of the tendon destruction that can occur in the fetus.

      I agree with the primary diagnosis of hypochondriasis. Look at the evidence for drug's toxicity before just randomly saying the drug did it. The incidence of these side effects reported is .1 - 2% (http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/avelox_ad.htm). He should go to a doctor and take things one step at a time before rushing out to self-diagnose himself with drug toxicity. Who knows, maybe he has panic attacks.


      As for the Vioxx comment: That really has nothing to do with the topic at hand, nor does the doctor's mistakes comment. What do those have to do with the non-existent side-effects of a mediation?
    • aggies11, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Re:d3dm

      And how many more people would die, if we didn't have doctor's in the first place?

      I'm all for punishing gross negligence, but we as a society have to take some personal responsibility here.

      Drugs are that, Drugs. The word has negative connotations for a reason. These are foreign chemicals that you put in your body. They cause reactions. Some of them beneficial, others not. Most of them are things alien to our body, that were never meant to be there in the first place. Dr. aren't super heroes either. They are human beings, and make mistakes in good faith.

      People expect Dr.'s to give them some pills to make everything better. They'll happily take them not knowing anything about them, and then when something goes wrong, it HAS to be the Dr.'s fault.

      People need to start learning some Science, so we can at least be partly aware of the world around us.

      Choice quote from the article: "I have resolved to never take medication ever again, not even to treat this, so I know I have an uphill battle." Thats the best possible reaction. /scarcasm. Seriously, that type of ignorance is what causes problems like this in the first place.

      Aggies
  • Julolidine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24"I am pretty sure I am suffering from Fluoride poisoning, if anyone knows otherwise, please let me know. Fluoride is a toxin notorious for bonding to bone and being difficult to extract."

    He's fortunately probably wrong on his assessment of that. The amount of fluoride in the pills is, well, you get more from your dentist, toothpaste, and from city tap water. There are all sorts of nasty side reactions that can happen with antibiotics (or any other pill), including massive immune responses due to allergies.

    I hope you contact another doctor as soon as possible. If you still have those infections, they can do serious harm to you. By completely giving up antibiotics, you risk culturing a 'super' strain of bacteria in your body.

    There are far too many variables for someone to give you an assessment over the Internet! Go see another doctor!
    • millerbrad, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20Avelox is only about 5% fluoride, which means that each 400mg dose has about 20mg of fluoride. Little-to-none of that 20mg is even metabolized free from the drug molecules, and is simply passed from the body. I'd be more worried about fluoride in drinking water or toothpaste, and I'm not worried at all about that.

      To be blunt, it sounds like the guy's a spazz. He felt better when they gave him Ativan in the hospital, i.e. maybe he was having anxiety issues more than anything. I'm curious if the EKGs actually indicated a heartattack?

      He does mention having heart palpitations. Hopefully the doctors checked that EKG for QTc prolongation (abnormal heart rhythm, can rarely be fatal). While it's disputed how relavent this side effect is with fluoroquinolones, it's still a possibility.

      Hopefully in his Google searches, he didn't give too much credibility to all the lawyers' bullcrap that's posted.

      Oh, and FWIW, I'm a pharmacist...
  • RandallBe, on 10/12/2007, -9/+6Yeah well at least hes getting help unlike ubuntu users. Ubuntnu users are too arrogant to admit they are even wrong.
  • clickwir, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6I hope he gets well soon.

    But me learning about it, isn't going to help.
  • TheLostSignal, on 10/12/2007, -18/+3It's the Flu, it's viral. You Americans make me laugh. SCIENCE says that it's a waiter-outer and NOT something to be treated with pills (only the symptoms, which in the grand scheme are fever and dehydration and anyone with a bit of sense stays in bed and keep drinking as much water as possible). Why do you think you have flu vaccinations, because you are exposed a mild version which hopefully build natural immunity to the VIRUS.

    Cold/Flu = herbal remedies. Doctors pills are for REAL illness.
    • digitalsin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15"You Americans make me laugh"

      We're more than happy to laugh back at you.
    • tonton2012, on 10/12/2007, -11/+2It's of no use. These people are still under the impression that modern managed healthcare practitioners are still practicing real science.

    • AlphaEta, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Wow, are you related to Bill Frist? Because you just diagnosed this guy's illness through through the internet!!!

      By the by, you aren't as smart as you think.
    • Jeffmr1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Did you read the post? Yes, antibiotics shouldn't be prescribed for cold/flu, but in this case the were prescribed for an infection.
  • netzdamon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19No idea we could use digg for requests like this. Next time my gf is out of town I think I'll use digg to find a cheap hooker.
    • digitalsin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17Good thinking. I can see the next headline then:

      "Digg Community Guy Has a Curious Rash with a Bad Smell! Help him find a doctor!" [Digg]
  • Zotter, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4Let's see if I can draw an analogy here:

    Passenger in an airplane
    Plane passes through some turbulence - things get shook up.
    Passenger had slept at a Holiday in Express the night before so he jumps out of plane without bothering to check and see if he's got a chute or not.

    Yup - that about fits.
    • samnetwork, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7You sir, are crazy.
    • dbisping, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1if only it could have been priceless...

      it's all too funny and all too fitting, in any case. (pun intended, though obscurely)
  • debtman7, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Often fatal? I think that's a bit of an exaggeration here... I've been on these antibiotics several times for resistant sinus infections. I can attest to the fact that they are psychoactive and can cause anxiety, tachycardia, insomnia, etc. However, this does not come anywhere near 'often fatal'. This guy isn't being poisoned, he's experiencing some side effects of a drug. Yeah, they're not so pleasant perhaps, but nothing dangerous there. I certainly don't think swearing off drugs is the answer in any case. Based on the fact that he seems to be getting a bit carried away about this, and claims to have 'basically had a heart attack' (which nothing else he says indicates happened), I'd say he's a bit of the anxious sort to begin with. Personally when I'm on these types of drugs, or prednisone, I make sure to get some xanax and ambien from my doctor as well. Luckily my doctor is good, and the first time I had to take these he let me know that it may cause tachycardia, palpitations, anxiety and insomnia so I knew what was coming.
    • VinceNoir, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1They are fatal when you accidentally do something to kill yourself. That's what almost happened to me twice while on Levaquin for sinus infections. At one point I was going to try and put a drill into my head because I was wondering what that would feel like. The Levaquin somehow made me forget what could be dangerous behavior. The other time I was going to try and fall out of a window to see what it would be like. For some reason I thought that if I fell out, I would slowly fall like a feather to the ground.

      Fortunately, in both instances I snapped out of it. But others haven't been so fortunate. There have been many reported cases of people either killing themselves or attempting to kill their families or spouses while on Quinolones. Even though these side effects only hit less than 1% of the population, it's not a good way to go... I will never take a Quinolone based on my reactions to it. The accompanying depression (not the reason for trying to off myself) that lasted for weeks after the dosage was done was no picnic either. Quinolones are not something to play with. They are really bad if you're unlucky enough to be someone who has these sorts of reactions to them.
  • MrESaulved, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5This is not a joke. Otherwise healthy in my 20's, I once had a simple bacterial sinus infection and I was given Levaquin to take once a day.

    After a single dose the first pill my skin turned spotted red like a stawberry. Small pin point spots of blood proteins all over. My achilles tendon (only one of them) ached so bad, I could not walk. I had never had an allergic reaction to anything, natural or synthetic, so I was very lucky that I inferred it was the Levaquin immediately and took no more.

    The good news is, there was no lasting damage (that I can tell to this day many years later), and I am hyper-aware of every medication and its effects on my physiology BEFORE I take it.

    The bad news is, not only did the prescribing doctor simply shrug it off as if it was my fault, but the whole attitude of the industry is tough luck, who cares. Astonishing.

    • AlphaEta, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Yes... the "industry" is out to get you!
    • millerbrad, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Sounds like an allergic reaction (the rash, at least). How anyone could say that it was "your fault" is beyond me. Nobody knows they're allergic until they come in contac with the ofending allergic. Yeah, it sucks.

      The Achilles tendon? After only one dose of Levaquin? Probably unrelated. Maybe if you were recovering from a recent Achilles injury, I might almost be convinced it's related. Probably not.
    • ThePict, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3There are a lot of drugs on the market that adversely affect some vanishingly small margin of the population. I'm sure you're physician's attitude was, "oh well, luck of the draw," and you only interpreted that as "he thinks it's my fault". Physicians are often gruff or surly due to overwork, lack of sleep, dealing with insurance companies BS, and other high stress conditions.
      It's not that they don't care . . . but if they cared too much, they'd go crazy.
  • flowingsphere, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I took Avelox last year for a sinus infection. Absolute nightmare. I already had generalized anxiety disorder, this stuff just made me feel awful. Took me 3 days of taking it to realize that it was causing my heart to race/suicidal thoughts/anxiety like crazy.

    I don't know what the solution is, but dr's don't seem to be aware of these side effects. Someone needs to publicize this and put it into the TV media spotlight..
    • insomuchas, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4people from the fluoride industry are in here digging down facts that hurt them. pathetic.
    • jordanday, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3If you have a question about your medication, you should ask your doctor. If you're not satisfied with what your doctor says, ask your pharmacist. There is absolutely NO ONE you can talk to who will know more about those medications than your pharmacist. The biggest problem is both the doctor and the pharmacist are overworked, but at least the pharmacist is usually at a counter in a store, so they tend to try to be helpful with patient questions. I'm guessing if you were taking a medication that was known to cause psychological reactions and you told your pharmacist about your pre-existing condition, they would have warned you immediately about some potential side effects. While in most states pharmacists don't have the power to prescrbe, your doctor will at least probably be willing to try a different medication.
  • moracity, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4My wife suffered brachial plexus neuritis within 24 hours of taking Cipro. She works for the CDC and was part of the Emergency Response Team back during the anthrax scares and a round was prescribed to all members.

    She suffered severe shoulder and arm pain, followed by a week of massive inflammation of her entire left arm. She's been to several neurologists and physical therapists, but nothing has been able to alleviate the pain or resolve the nerve loss in her arm. All the doctors said it was very unusual to see this type of reaction. Non one seemed to think it was related to the Cipro. We took it as a fluke, but weren't totally convinced.

    Several months later, she was given Avelox for something else and within 2 hours of the first dose, she had the exact same reaction as she had to Cipro. She now has permanent nerve damage and chronic pain.

    Needless to say, she will not be taking Fluoroquinolones again unless it's the only way to save her life.

    • jordanday, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Flouride-containing medications of all part of a Communist plot to impurify our precious bodily fluids.

      "In the name of Her Majesty and the Continental Congress, come here and feed me this belt, boy...The Red Coats are coming."
  • digitalsin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11My advice for you (you know, since you asked for it) is to stay the hell off the internet for at least a week. Stop analyzing yourself. Do some healthy activities that will get your mind off wondering if you're in the .05% of the population that truly has gotten fluoride poisoning.

    Some healthy activities to try:
    1. Have sex (preferably with another person or persons)
    2. Buy a kitten
    3. Go to the gym
    4. Go to a bar and get bent
    5. Call your mom or grandma and let her list all of her hypochondriac ailments - yours will pale in comparison and make you feel better

    Seriously, get away from the computer and forget about what you think you might have. Go get a different antibiotic.
  • DerekV, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6So the guy is a hypochondriac who is probably getting anxiety from the meds, who had a panic attack because he thinks he is dieing from an antibiotic..... Your right he does need medical help, its called xanax.

    Plus, who the goes to the doctor with the flu unless you have a severely high temperature.
  • ThePict, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Jack, homeopathy is snake-oil. Stay far away.
    Choosing to refuse ANY further drug treatment because of a bad reaction to a single drug is also irrational. Stay away from that CLASS of drugs, perhaps, sure, but you're over-reacting.
    I tend to agree with artemenko . . . you're going to be OK. Try to relax, and maybe even take up meditation.

    @Julolidine
    There's different kinds of fluoride, each affect the body differently.
    You help breed superstrains of bacteria by taking TOO MUCH antibiotics. Refraining from taking them doesn't help either though, just makes it less likely that you'll be the incubator.
    • bkedelen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Your statement about superstrains is not true. Superstrains are encouraged when doctors prescribe antibiotics to to people too often, and when people choose not to take the full course of the antibiotic because they stop when they feel better. When doctors prescribe antibiotics to people simply to make them feel better or to speed up an otherwise slow but sure recovery the bacteria of the world generally are more exposed to our secret weapon, and it is inevitable that they will begin to work around it. Similarly, when a person feels well and then stops a course of antibiotics, the colonies in their body that are exposed to antibiotics but survive begin to develop a tolerance to the antibiotic.
      I am a big fan of modern medicine, but this is a major blind-spot that is not being well addressed. My wife works in a hospital laboratory and every hospital has a doctor or two which overprescribe powerful antibiotics.
  • da5id, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"We are part of a very smart and very well connected community ..." "I have resolved to never take medication ever again..." Count me out of this community.
  • VinceNoir, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I had a very seriously bad reaction to Levaquin (which I was given for chronic sinus infections) a few years ago. Ever since then I've steered clear of nearly all antibiotics and will only take them in the event of a life threatening illness. Sadly, these medications adversely affect only a very small portion of the population, so most people who have taken them with few or unnoticed side effect think the minority are crazy or lawsuit happy. In my case, I haven't pursued any legal actions, I am purely of the opinion that I'm one of the unlucky few who really react negatively to most antibiotics. (I've also had terrible reactions to other non-Quinolones). From what I remember, with Levaquin, the portion of the population that reacts poorly is less than 1%, but that's a pretty large number of people if you take the whole of the U.S. population into account not to mention other countries around the world where they may be applied.

    So my warning to all of you who might encounter Levaquin (as it's being marketed as a panacea) is to carefully read for all side effects. Even the rare ones, and then pay attention to how you feel. I also advise that you combat the damage that the antibiotics do to the intestinal flora with good doses of probiotic. In my case, much of the damage was caused by the overgrowth of Candida Albicans in my GI tract which spread to other parts of my body as evidenced by various rashes. Probiotics can be obtained as "Acidophilus supplements" at any decent health food store. You may also try and eat plenty of yogurt with live active cultures. That's what worked for me. But above all else, see your doctor immediately if you experience any of the side effects (especially anything having to do with mood or mental abilities) as they can be extremely dangerous to you and those around you. (There have been reports of soldiers who were treated with Quinolones as anti-malarials who came home and attempted to kill their families or attacked loved ones)
  • dbsanfte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7All the symptoms he described are symptoms of a panic attack. Yes, even the burning in the head and legs.

    I've had that during my panic attacks also. It feels like a "heart attack", but isn't. Anything can trigger them. I find it interesting he mentions his anxiety. Not to downplay what happened to the fellow (I have suffered from extreme panic attacks and generalized anxiety disorder for three years now), but just from what he describes, no. That wasn't a heart attack.

    A heart rate of "double normal", or 120bpm, is tachycardia, but not in the heart-attack range for his age (try 190-200). Tachycardia can be caused by gas of all things (not saying this is what happened to him, just saying it's common). Unless the EKG shows abnormalities in electrical signalling in the heart, tachycardia almost never indicates a cardiac event.

    The odds of a heart attack in a person under 30, nonsmoker, normal cholesterol etc, is less than 1%. It is only remotely possible that he had a heart attack from these pills, and really it's more likely he feels the doctors are dismissing the urgency of what he feels, and so he is self-diagnosing. That's bad. I've done it. It just breeds more anxiety.

    Jack, this may be tough for you to believe, by panic attacks are extremely common in the 20s age group, that's where they most often manifest for the first time. When you're ill, under the weather, experience a new sensation in your body you haven't felt before. It triggers a gut "OMG SOMETHING IS WRONG" reaction and boom, you're in full panic-mode. If the doctors say you had a panic attack, skip two or three years of futile self-diagnosis (like I spent) from astronomically unlikely ailments like fluoride poisoning, and come to grips with the fact that you had one.

    Your anxiety won't go away until you learn it has become self-perpetuating, and learn to cope with it. The doctors aren't trying to mislead you, panic attacks feel like death is creeping up on your shoulder and really do manifest themselves in such ways as what you experienced. From what I read and what you say the doctors told you, welcome to the panic attack club, man.

    --Panic attack sufferer

    • chrisfu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You are completely correct with your break down of the symptoms. But trust me, I've had two doctors confirm the likelihood of fluoride poisoning. The lifestyle that you lead plays a big part in how it effects you, and I found cutting down/cutting out certain habits for a while worked wonders. One thing that I do agree with the sceptics, is the doubt regarding heart palpitations. I believed at the time I was having palpitations, until being given two ECG's whilst in the middle of an attack. Whilst they showed that my heart rate was double the accepted average, it showed a consistent pattern with no skips or missed beats. This is normal for an anxiety attack and you can't argue with proof.

      People suffering from anxiety tend to assume the very worst, I know this from experience. :) Once you accept that it's completely within your control to fix the problem, you start getting better.
    • itdood, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I've had PAs too. This guy is having PAs. period. If he were drinking diet Pepsi at the time, he'd be blaming that.

      I remember when I first got them, how much of a crisis mode I went into. My first was @ 30. I went to doctors thinking I had this, or that. MRIs, CT scans. I really wanted to explain them away. So I know what this guy is going through now. Over the years I learned to accept them and it's a non-issue now. I got through it. Yes I have some issues here and there but nothing I can't handle.
  • diggnationdevon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It would help you in the meantime if you took a benzodiazepine to help control the anxiety.
    • secion8, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0Yeah, Another drug to ***** him up! Right
  • vonskippy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+31mg Xanax q4h And stop being such a worry wart.

    The actual number of times that lay persons self diagnosis a rare serious problem is WAY smaller then portrayed on tv (or the web). Getting a MD takes 8 years (or more) for a reason.
  • Youssif, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Get well soon Open Sources' fighter ..
  • secion8, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Sorry to hear that bro. Just my 2 cents, Do a detox flush, Yes the same drinks that people use to pass drug tests. Go to your local vitamin shoppe and tell them you want a detox drink. They are not cheap but they do work. What it will do is flush everythink out your colon about 1 hour later.(Yes you will shiat your brains out.) But you will feel better because it will flush any remains out of your system. After doing this be sure to take a good multi vitamin.(Not prescribed by your doctor! - Talk to your local health store clerk about this.) I would recommend The vitamin shoppe if you have one in your area.

    I also recommend reading the book "More natural cures they don't want you to know about" By Kevin trudeau, It is a real eye opener.

    Good luck
  • iamdegenatron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Go to a doctor, not DIGG
  • atb12688, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1There doesn't appear to be nearly enough fluoride in the pills to cause this. I'd say hes just plain wrong about that. Get well soon nonetheless.
  • johntoast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The mind is a powerful weapon and when not controlled properly can cause more damage to our selfs than anything else
  • chrisfu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I too went into anaphylactic shock on a fluoroquinalone drug named Ofloxacin. It wasn't pretty at all, and took me about a year to get over the effects. Long term side effects from such a shock include social/general anxiety, stress and respiratory problems/IBS. Thankfully I got over these side effects in time. I didn't need to spend a penny on drugs or anything other treatment to get over it, it just takes time and avoidance of any stressful situations. I had to force myself to be in socialising, literally, and in the long run it did me a lot of good. I used to be the most social person I knew before taking the drug, and for a long time afterwards I just couldn't deal with it. I'm now 100% back to normal. The effects of the drug lasted from around Jan 2006 to Nov 2006.

    Also, one other thing. If you smoke weed (bud) and have been affected by a fluoroquinalone... STAY OFF IT. For good, and I'm serious. Strong bud will only amplify all your symptoms and generally turn you into a wreck. I wouldn't even dream of touching the green for at least 5-10 years. Finally, my doc advised me to take a lot of exercise. I now lift weights for only 20-25 minutes when I wake up in the morning, and for the same amount of time when I get home from work. It also helped my mind relax, tired me to the point where all these little things that were getting on top of me didn't even enter my head any more.

    Your doctor won't be able to prescribe anything that will fix this, and I'm 99.9% sure of this. But it definitely isn't impossible at all to get over the symptoms. I can testify to that.
  • dezent, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Good luck dude!
    Hope you get well soon.

    /dez
  • Trojan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Step one: Don't take medical advice from a web board on the internet. Ask a professional.

    Step two: Do not self-diagnose or self-medicate.

    Step three: Solve the paradox I just created.
  • dtfull, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2It appears your friend has suffered a severe adverse reaction to the fluoroquinolones. This is hardly unusual to say the least. The fluoroquinolones are one of the most toxic chemotherapeutic agents in clinical use today. They are also the largest selling drug in the world although they are only to be used as a drug of last resort and are NOT first line agents for any disease state. They are only to be used when all else has failed and the patient is in danger of losing life or limb. More than fifty percent of these drugs have been pulled off the market due to severe and fatal adverse reactions. Most recently Tequin for causing fatal hypo/hyperglycemia. Severe central nervous system reactions are quite common as these drugs bind with GABA totally screwing up your brain. Spontaneous tendon ruptures, irreversible peripheral neuropathy, heart, liver and kidney damage, strokes and heart attacks, the list is endless.

    Such reactions may occur long after therapy has been discontinued and become for the most part life long chronic conditions. There is no treatment protocol for a majority of these reactions. The Attorney General of the State of Illinois had filed a petition with the FDA demanding black box warnings concerning these reactions as the ignorance found within the medical community is appalling. Public Citizen filed a similar petition way back in 1996 and the FDA is continuing to "look into this matter" for well over ten years now.

    For practical suggestions your friend may want to log unto the quinolone adverse reaction forum, hosted by Yahoo since 1999, where over 1500 people who suffer in the same manner meet to discuss these issues. Including a number of researchers and others in the medical field. He may also wish to log unto www.fqresearch.org where he will find well over 4000 medical journal entries, case reports, newspaper articles, post marketing reports that go as far back as the mid sixties and legal referrals as well, dealing with these adverse reactions.

    To the best of my knowledge, and I have been researching these adverse reactions for well over eight years now having been both blinded (permanent double vision) and crippled by the careless scripting of these drugs, there is no one within the medical field who has any clue how to treat these reactions. Your friend may also wish to take a look at Dr. Cohen's website medicationsense.com where he will find an extensive article "Peripheral Neuropathy associated with Fluoroquinolones", 2001, in which a study of numerous patients who suffered these reactions is reported upon. Dr. Cohen also offers some practical advise for dealing with them.

    The number of people worldwide who have suffered such reactions is in the millions. These drugs are also capable of causing DNA damage and several of them are cancer causing agents. They are anything but a safe and effective antibiotic. Trovan causes fatal liver damage, Tequin causes fatal hypoglycemia, Factive causes scarring rashes, Raxar causes fatal heart attacks and strokes, the list is endless.

    I hope this information helps.

    Regards,

    David T. Fuller
    Director
    Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Research Foundation
    fqresearch@aol.com
    www.fqresearch.org


  • FormerEnigma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2
    So much misinformation going around ...
    1) Unless one has distinct EKG changes (ST segment changes) or elevated cardiac enzymes, it is not a heart attack
    2) Way too many antibiotics are given for viral infections.
    3) Most upper respiratory infections will go away on their own, without outside help.
    4) all medications have risk of side effects, some common, some uncommon.
    5) It is nearly impossible to have a TRUE ALLERGIC (read: IgE mediated) reaction to something for the very first time, unless you have been exposed to it or something very similar for at least several days.
    6) It is possible to have a serious ADVERSE REACTION to the very first dose of a medication.
    7) With the exception of common side effects, most reactions are impossible to predict.
    8) No doctor/pharmacist is going to explain every possible reaction and the likelihood of it. There are way too many things to keep track of and too many people would be freaked out about the miniscule risk of serious reactions. One patient wanted to know everything, so I looked out and read out all of the possible reactions. He freaked out and decided not to take it, despite the hugh benefit to risk ratio in his favor.
    9) The best philosophy with meds is fewest whenever possible to reduce the risk of drug-drug interactions, cost, and side-effects.
    10) If one is worried about something, ASK more questions, don't assume! If your doctor does not provide an adequate explanation, 1) keep asking, 2) change doctor, or 3) get a referral to a specialist.
    11) medicine is a GIGO field: garbage in, garbage out. If you do not tell the whole story, you are going to get subpar treatment. 85-90% of the diagnosis lies in the history.
  • dtfull, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Not to take up too much space here but after reading the remainder of the comments found on this subject I am compelled to comment even further. There is no "homeopathic" or other "natural" cure for these reactions. There is no such thing as "detoxing" from this. Like Elvis the fluoroquinolone has long since left the building. You are now dealing with the damage done while they were on stage. Such damage continues long after the drug has cleared your system. Such alternative medicine "cures" have been researched extensively and have found to offer nothing what so ever in terms of relief. All they have done is exhausted your bank account. Self medication in this manner is not only pointless it is out right dangerous to say the least. One patient tried "Ozone Therapy" and spent almost a month in a psych ward getting his brains unscrambled. Others have suffered tremendous damage as a result of these treatments and ended up being hospitalized.

    These reactions are SERIOUS medical complications affecting just about every organ in the human body and something you eat or do not eat is not going to repair such extensive damage.

    Rather than screwing with such snake oil salesmen your friend needs to get a complete CBC work up as well as liver and kidney function for starters. He also needs to consult with an good endo doc and see if his potassium, magnesium, and sodium levels are out of whack. Also needs to test for rhadbomylosis, a muscle wasting disease state caused by the quinolones. A cardiologist to see if his heart has been damaged as well. This is just for starters. Benzo drugs will only make things a helluva lot worse. NSAIDS are an absolute no no at this point as well as they contribute to psych problems. Insomnia usually last about 6-8 months and once again there is no drug that will combat that reaction.

    Time is the only proven treatment. And we are not talking days, weeks or even months here, but years. Average recovery is about three years, if your one of the lucky ones. If not then this becomes a life long condition.

    Regards

    David T. Fuller
  • dtfull, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Three years ago the FDA, in 2004, required new warnings for all the fluoroquinolones to include the following which the FDA deemed to be class effects:

    New warning labels added to the fluoroquinolones regarding Peripheral Neuropathy (irreversible nerve damage), Tendon Damage (spontaneous tendon ruptures occurring years after therapy), Heart Problems (prolonged QT Interval / Torsades de pointes), Pseudomembranous colitis, Rhabdomyolysis (muscle wasting), Steven Johnson Syndrome, fatal hypo/hyperglycemia, as well as concurrent usage of NSAIDs contributing to serious central nervous system reactions.

  • dtfull, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Fluoride has absolutely nothing to do with these reactions. People often times get confused because of the name of this class. The fluoroquinolones contain the fluorine atom which is an "accelerator" used to promote deep tissue penetration. It is not one and the same as fluoride. The quinolone drugs (which are not fluorinated and do not contain the fluorine atom) have the same adverse reactions associated with their use. You would ingest more fluoride by brushing your teeth than you ever would from taking a fluoroquinolone drug. No question that fluoride is a toxic chemical and can cause extensive tissue damage. But you have to drink to contents of an entire swimming pool in one setting before you reach such a level by drinking water that has been treated with fluoride. The amount of fluoride generated from the fluorine atom found within the fluoroquinolones is so minuscule that it is a non issue. You will find more of this chemical in your tooth paste in comparison.

  • VinceNoir, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0A lot of people here are basically saying, "sorry but something like a sinus infection will clear up without the need for antibiotics. Just buck up and take it and don't bother with the antibiotics". To those people, I say that you've obviously never had severe and chronic sinusitis. It feels like someone shoved a brick between the back of your eyes and your brain. It makes you want to vomit because the pain is so strong. The body aches and chills make you feel like you just came out of a car accident. Constantly. And when this happens several times a year, you will do anything to try and avoid. That is... until you take a quinolone and you happen to be one of the less than 1% who have severe and horrible reactions to it. Once that happens, you actually would rather take the pain of the sinus infection. Almost.

    Quinolones might work for 99% of the population, but for the unlucky few like me, they are literal poison. I nearly offed myself twice when on Levaquin. But it wasn't due to depression. It was due to forgetting what was dangerous behavior. If you had the negative side effects the kinds of thoughts that come to your head as perfectly normal and rational are things like: "I wonder what would happen if I dropped a running hair drier in the bathtub while I was standing in it holding the metal faucet". Or... "I think my head could support this bookcase if I positioned it just right to fall on my head". I'm totally serious about this. Those are the kinds of thoughts I had when I was on Levaquin. a few weeks after getting off the Levaquin those thoughts went away. So you can see why the pain of the sinus infection would be almost preferable in most cases. But damn, the pain is so bad you can't even see straight.
  • vitualis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1What utter nonsense a lot of people believe in!

    What this poor fellow is describing, as mentioned by several people, is classic for a panic attack. They certainly do not sound at all like a side-effect from a fluoroquinolone antibiotic, and most certainly not from fluoride poisoning. He probably does not need the antibiotic but all the other suggestions of taking vitamins or, gasp, chelation therapy is utter nonsense and potentially harmful.

    If you are reading this, you need to see your GP again and talk to him about the symptoms you are having. Panic disorder is not something that can be managed by trips to the Emergency Department. You may or may not need medications but will get the most benefit from seeing a good clinical psychologist.

    Regards,
    Michael Tam
    (GP in Australia)
  • cybe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The best recommendation I can give is this document:-

    http://jahtruth.net/heal.htm
  • dtfull, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Dr. Tam,
    Apparently you are totally unaware that severe CNS adverse reactions, manifesting as panic attacks, (as well as toxic psychosis which one poster described rather accurately) are one of the leading adverse reactions to the fluoroqouinolone drugs as a class. This is a result of the quinolones binding with GABA. The burning sensation he is referring to may very well be irreversible peripheral neuropathy, yet another ADR to the quinolone class. In reference to the comment made by another poster that "That is... until you take a quinolone and you happen to be one of the less than 1% who have severe and horrible reactions to it." is again untrue. The adr rate for the fluoroquinolones is closer to 10% when it comes to severe and crippling adrs. The major problems is that pysicians, just like yourself, have no idea what ADRS are associated with this class having been brainwashed into believing they are safe and effective antibiotics. You do not remove over 50% of drug class from clinical use do to how safe they are, you are forced to do this as a result of severe toxicity issues.

    A clinical psychologist is about the stupidest thing someone could suggest. This is not a "mental" problem but a chemical induced state as a result of fluoroquinolone therapy. One excellent book on this subject which was written years ago is "Bitter Pills" written by Stephen Fried. His wife suffered such a reaction as a result of ONE floxin and it took years and years to get it under control. Another article of reference is Peripheral Neuropathy associated with Fluoroquinolones written in 2001 by Dr. Cohen and published in the Annals of Pharmacotherapy.

    "They certainly do not sound at all like a side-effect from a fluoroquinolone antibiotic" is just another prime example of the rampant ignorance found within the medical community regarding the adverse reactions to the fluoroquinolones. Severe and crippling CNS as well as PNS adverse events are part and parcel for fluoroquinolone therapy. This has been reported in any number of leading medical journals since the introduction of Nalidixic Acid in the mid sixties.

    Next someone will be telling me that spontaneous tendon rupture (first reported in 1982, see Bailey et al, and EVERY YEAR since) does not sound like an adverse reaction to fluoroquinolone therapy. Yet all a physician has to do is open his PDR and all of this and more is right there in black and white. Only problem is the medical community as a whole has never been given this information. With so many new drugs coming on the market they do not have the time to research this either. They rely upon the information provided by the drug reps who completely and deliberately forget to disclose the true adr rate of the drugs they are pushing.

    Drug companies write the package inserts of all drugs, carefully including the information they choose and omitting information they want to avoid. Drug companies underwrite a large percentage of continuing education courses for doctors. In doing so, they make sure that the speakers represent the company view. Drug companies design studies that are meant to produce favorable results and then publish the studies in medical journals. Studies with unfavorable results are not published. Drug reps typically bring stacks of studies, all favorable, which impress doctors, who no longer have the time or motivation to search the medical literature themselves. Drug reps do not include independent studies with less favorable conclusions. Many doctors never see these.
    For if they disclosed this information there is not a physician in the world who would deliberately put their patient at such a risk unless the patent's life or limb was threatened. But then you would not have the quinolones as the largest selling drug in world either.

    Studies such as these are what is being withheld from you:

    "We studied a case series of 17 individuals...Adverse events including those that affect the central nervous system, skin and musculoskeletal systems, as well as elevated liver enzymes, all occurred in less that 2% of patients prescribed levofloxacin during clinical trials. The incidence of adverse effects observed in our patients (100%) greatly exceeded that expected."(circa 2000)

    "In a double-blind evaluation of oral fleroxacin, Adverse Reactions developed in 66 (84%) of 79 individuals, and severe reactions arose in 38 (48%). Most frequent were central nervous system reactions (70%), insomnia (49%); gastrointestinal reactions (39%) and photosensitivity reactions (10%) were also common. Development of any reaction (central nervous system reactions, insomnia, and severe intestinal reactions) was dose related. (circa 1989)"

    "Levofloxacin 750 mg QD for five days for treatment of acute bacterial exacerbation of chronic bronchitis: The prevalence of treatment-emergent adverse events was 42.1 % in patients who received levofloxacin."

    "Among 386 anaphylaxis cases, 84 (22%) referred to antibiotics. Among these antibiotics, 52/84 cases (62%) referred to quinolones; In our investigation
    Quinolones accounted for a relevant number of anaphylaxis cases among the group of antibiotics."

    "Of 100 total patients, 81 received an FQ for an inappropriate indication. Of the 19 patients who received an FQ for an appropriate indication, only 1 received both the correct dose and duration of therapy. ( Only 1% received the appropriate drug at the appropriate dose, hence 99% of the prescriptions were in error)"

    Quoting directly from one of the package inserts for a fluoroquinolone drug:

    "Quinolones may cause central nervous system (CNS) events including nervousness, agitation, insomnia, anxiety attacks, nightmares, neuropsychiatric problems including hallucinations and toxic psychosis. Such reactions may occur long after said therapy has been discontinued."

    I believe what our friend is describing fits this description to a "T".

    No offense Dr. Tam but you are horribly behind the times when it comes to adverse reactions associated with this class. Panic attacks are indeed a classic adverse reaction to this class and have been for over forty years now. You are doing your patients a great disservice (assuming that the GP refers to general practitioner) by failing to do a little research into the drugs you are prescribing.

    You will be shocked beyond measure when you read what has been hidden from you as well as your patients. I would also suggest you take a look at the Australian Adverse Drug Reactions Bulletins for further information. You will find this class prominently featured many times over the years.


  • dtfull, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"It would help you in the meantime if you took a benzodiazepine to help control the anxiety."

    Benzos are an ABSOLUTE NO NO after suffering an adverse reaction to a fluoroquinolone drug. They only make the anxiety attacks far worse rather than control them. A number of articles have been published attesting to this effect.
  • samnetwork, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://www.duggmirror.com/linux_unix/Fedora_Community_Guy_Needs_Serious_Medical_Help
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