What is Digg?241 Comments
- Elranzer, on 11/10/2007, -32/+98Expect a patch available within hours. This isn't Microsoft we're dealing with here. With FOSS, things actually get fixed (except the UI in GIMP, of course).
- inactive, on 11/09/2007, -7/+59I hope that the Ubuntu devs address this issue soon.
- bratterscain, on 10/26/2007, -0/+41If your flash drive is able to spin down and has platters, then yeah. But actually, if your flash drive is spinning down, you got a much worse problem on your hands.
- gcnaddict, on 10/31/2007, -15/+49Microsoft doesn't have an operating system which causes wear and tear on hardware. That's what the massive beta programs are for.
I had to play devil's advocate here. - JasonCox, on 10/27/2007, -4/+34"With FOSS, things actually get fixed"
To quote the Firefox dev team: It's not a bug, it's a feature. - enclave2, on 10/25/2007, -0/+26Looks like it's a bug that was first discovered on 2006-09-09.
So I doubt they'll have a fix overnight.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-sup ... - Ashex, on 10/25/2007, -0/+23Hate to burst your bubble, but that bug linked in the blog is a duplicate of this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-sup ...
Which has been open for a little over a year.
The reason it hasn't been resolved, is because disabling APM is not the solution, this will cause the hard drive to heat up and also create the risk of damaging a laptop when dropped. The issue is deciding on number to use, or alternate solution. A patch has been created that will be decided within the next few days, so it's being worked on. - akkibaba, on 10/26/2007, -1/+23It's not so much a solution as it is a hacky workaround. Turning off APM causes higher power consumption.
- mjg59, on 10/26/2007, -1/+22The script that's executed when you plug or unplug your laptop is /etc/acpi/power.sh. The relevant sections are:
function laptop_mode_enable {
...
$HDPARM -S $SPINDOWN_TIME /dev/$drive 2>/dev/null
$HDPARM -B 1 /dev/$drive 2>/dev/null
}
That is, when the laptop_mode_enable function is called, we set the drive power parameters. Now, by default laptop_mode_enable isn't called:
if [ x$ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE = xtrue ]; then
(sleep 5 && laptop_mode_enable)&
fi
because ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE is false in the default install (check /etc/default/acpi-support). This means that, by default, we do not alter the hard drive power settings. In other words, the APM settings that your drive is using in Ubuntu are the ones that your BIOS programmed into it when the computer started.
If you enable laptop mode, then we will enable aggressive power management on the drive and that may lead to some reduction in hard drive lifespan. That's a fairly inevitable consequence of laptop mode, since it only makes sense if the laptop enages in aggressive power management. But, as I said, that's not the default behaviour of Ubuntu. - Salgat, on 10/26/2007, -3/+21Especially with the easy solution provided by the author.
- daldredge, on 10/31/2007, -6/+23Explain how a patch written in such a short amount of time can be tested as correctly as it should.
- daldredge, on 10/26/2007, -1/+17Bug #59695, first reported on 2006-09-09
That would make this bug 13+ months old... - andycr512, on 10/25/2007, -2/+17Linux has bugs too...
- ubergeek09, on 11/10/2007, -12/+25The good thing is the patches actual help too, they don't just make more problems.
- czeman, on 10/25/2007, -6/+18The difference between Linux and Windows is that the Linux bugs actually get fixed, and without creating other problems.
- obxjdt, on 10/25/2007, -0/+12This isn't an Ubuntu problem, but a S.M.A.R.T. problem. If you disable S.M.A.R.T. in your bios, you've fixed the problem. I learned that one the hard way. It ruins the starting clusters where the MBR needs to be.
Also, I don't remember where I saw it, but Google uses "off the shelf" hard drives in their servers, and has a list/chart of hard drive longevity. Western Digital Smart drives are at the bottom of the list. I think it was Seagate or Hitachi on the top. - bratterscain, on 10/25/2007, -2/+13If anything, it would help.
- Rowan187, on 10/25/2007, -2/+13WE WILL FIX IT IN SERVICE PACK 1
-Microsoft - loconet, on 10/25/2007, -2/+13Sensationalist title. If you read the original bug report, a) it only affects laptops, b) It does not affect people with default installs. It has to do with a power management feature which some people may opt to turn on. It definitely is a problem that needs to be addressed but it's not as bad as the digg submissions makes it sound.
- missingnoh4x, on 10/27/2007, -3/+14*****, I'm posting this from a Gutsy laptop right now. How widespread is this, and should I be worried?
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 10/25/2007, -8/+19Too bad that doesn't make up for creating fundamentally flawed software to begin with.
- Walking.Dude, on 10/26/2007, -2/+12This is not an OS issue. This is a specific drive/bios issue according to the follow links to it. It does appear that Ubuntu is not mitigating it, but the fix is simple if you have a drive making the constant clicking sound.
- Tiak, on 10/25/2007, -0/+9Power management seems to be enabled by default, as it should be for a laptop, when battery life is important... He wasn't dicking around with anything.
- shakin, on 10/25/2007, -2/+11"Ummm... no. The only reputable studies that I've seen on this issue have found Microsoft equal if not better to the patch turnaround of the big Linux vendors..."
Really? Because I have seen precious few studies that take into account the wide margin of difference between the tens of thousands of programs that Linux vendors patch compared to the few that Microsoft patches. Maybe we should count Adobe's slow patch turnaround time against Microsoft just to make it fair. I have also not seen many studies that take into account the difference between open source public disclosure and Microsoft's private disclosure when counting the number of days to release a patch. Finally, Microsoft and Linux vendors such as Red Hat and Novell have different definitions for how critical bugs are, so while Microsoft may leave a moderate bug open longer, that same bug may be deemed critical by Red Hat, or vice versa.
And then we come to this Ubuntu bug, which is basically just a highly aggressive power saving feature. By this standard, all power saving features may cause extra wear and tear on hardware and in fact the author suggests turning the power saving setting to its least active state. I wonder how much wear and tear is caused by preventing your hard drive from spinning down. - AshUK, on 10/26/2007, -1/+10Hey, I have a Hitachi drive in this laptop, and it has worked fine since I br
- slaytanic213, on 10/25/2007, -1/+10What is this "defragmenting" you talk of?
freeBSD/knoppix fan boy :) - ronmexico, on 10/25/2007, -0/+8Who are you going to sue exactly?
- mlblac02, on 10/25/2007, -0/+8It's not an APM problem. It's the way Ubuntu set ups hdparm to interact with APM, that's why the solution the author provides requires you to tweak something in hdparm and not the APM settings.
- V1ncent, on 10/27/2007, -8/+16im in ur linux breakinz ur drivez
- linuxrebel, on 10/25/2007, -2/+10Nothing to address. Like the first comment said by default laptop-mode doesn't change the BIOS settings for HDD spin down. The real problem here is that the individual in the blog didn't bother to check the cause of the problem. The problem is too aggressive a power management setting in BIOS. This combined with PEBKAC and the end result is the blog.
- daldredge, on 10/31/2007, -4/+12Bug #59695, first reported on 2006-09-09
Peer review appears to have failed in this case seeing as how this problem has been around for 13+ months. - stoanhart, on 10/25/2007, -0/+8Holy CRAP!
I just checked my load/unload cycles ( sudo smartctl -A /dev/sda ). I am at 1,117,602! My hard drive should have died close to a year ago! Also, I am averaging 4 cycles/minute. OUCH! I have been using the affected versions of Ubuntu for about a 6 months now, during which time my laptop was a desktop replacement (I was away from home), so it was on almost 24/7. That accounts for around 864 000 cycles!!! Not cool, Ubuntu, not cool.
I'm gonna go back up. Later! - vvaduva, on 10/27/2007, -2/+10Nice to see the politics creeping up in here...a bug that has nothing to do with Microsoft somehow turns into "Microsoft sucks anyways." Ignorance and stupidity never see an end!
Not to mention that you apparently are totally ignorant regarding software development lifecycle, patch development and management. A patch written in "hours" will work very well for you...I am sure. Make sure you are the first to install it! - Shananra, on 10/25/2007, -8/+15no, they just make the operating system so slow that by the time the wear and tear takes effect it's time for an upgrade.
- takeda, on 10/27/2007, -2/+9*ehm*
"Bug #104535, first reported on 2007-04-08" - antdude, on 10/25/2007, -1/+8http://duggmirror.com/linux_unix/Explanation_of_Ub ...
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 10/27/2007, -3/+10I thought that was Microsoft...
- qbproger, on 10/26/2007, -6/+13i noticed the post said he was running on a dell inspiron. Would this bug apply to desktops also?
- c0nv1ct, on 10/31/2007, -0/+7You are correct, disabling S.M.A.R.T. in the BIOS does not prevent you from running smartd and smartmontools in linux. Userspace utilities will still work just fine.
- stoanhart, on 11/10/2007, -1/+7Actually, I have this EXACT problem with my laptop (Asus z71v) in XP.
If you stop using the hard disk for about 30 seconds, it spins down. Not just loading/unloading, as this article mentions, I mean completely spinning down and shutting off. Unfortunately, it is usually the case that some program will request data about 2 seconds after spindown and the drive will spin back up again. For the first 6 months that I had my laptop, before I switched to Ubuntu, all I heared it do was spin up, spin down, spin up, spin down. It drove me CRAZY. I tried to stop it: I played with every power management option, I tried every driver or inf file for the laptops chipset, I checked the BIOS; nothing stopped it. Every time I heard it, I cringed.
Then I tried Ubuntu. While this bug wasn't the main reason I switched, it sure relieved a MAJOR annoyance, and provided me with some peace of mind. I will investigate whether my laptop does loading/unloading under Gutsy tomorrow (can you hear it like a spin up/down?).
aside: When I reboot my laptop into Windows to play some games on the go, it still happens. The worst is when playing Counterstrike Source; if the drive spins down and you go to shoot someone, the computer locks up until the drive is spinning and the sound file can be loaded. Needless to say, a 3 second delay in a firefight is suicide :( - nanostream, on 10/25/2007, -3/+9OK, that was just plain illogical.
- obxjdt, on 10/31/2007, -1/+7Easy there tough guy, don't make me come down there and crank your head in with a monkey wrench.....When you disable S.M.A.R.T. your not letting the arm reset, it stays on the disc. "Here's your clue"......
- Tiak, on 10/25/2007, -1/+7The license doesn't leave that option open... Basically, you agree to let the software make your computer melt when you install it.
- thewfirestarter, on 10/26/2007, -2/+7How about some proof of damage?
I've ran Ubuntu since the 4.x versions on the same computer. No problems. - clickwir, on 10/25/2007, -2/+7How widespread is it? DURRR. Anyone using Gutsy or Feisty.
- aldenhg, on 10/27/2007, -1/+6This isn't an issue if you're using a desktop. Also, if you've changed your BIOS options relating to HDD performance it's not an issue.
- andycr512, on 10/25/2007, -1/+6Right, because such a bug could -never- be introduced to Windows...
- c0nv1ct, on 10/25/2007, -0/+5Didn't they stop making iBooks years ago? Probably just old age.
- WarezAppz, on 10/25/2007, -0/+5or you could hdparm -i /dev/sda and see directly
- andycr512, on 10/25/2007, -0/+5APM's off by default for me on my desktop's PATA drive.
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