What is Digg?Sponsored by HowLifeWorks
How Private Online Shopping Clubs Work view!
howlifeworks.com - How to become a member and get discounts of up to 80% on must-have luxury goods
188 Comments
- BalancingAct, on 07/10/2009, -5/+100"How did this happen? There are various versions. One is that Microsoft suddenly woke up to a serious threat to its market share and became Microhard. It gave Asus a package it couldn't refuse - a cheap version of Windows as long as it tossed the upstart Linux overboard."
But surely Microsoft always tries to compete solely on merit, right? - wallclimber, on 07/10/2009, -5/+65"Just because a computer comes with Windows doesn't mean you have to use it."
Just curious, but why do you think people that don't want Windows should have to pay for it anyway, and then have to get rid of it themselves??? It doesn't make any sense at all. We wouldn't put up with that kind of nonsense from ANY other product in the world. We shouldn't have to put up with it from Microsoft either. - unrealmp3, on 07/11/2009, -4/+46Following your logic, I should pay the license, even if I don't want to use it?
- TheCheeks, on 07/11/2009, -3/+43You do realize that when you buy a computer that has Windows installed, you essentially PAID for your copy of Windows? It's not a free product.
- orville1151, on 07/11/2009, -5/+32Or how about this.
Mega Corp comes into your town where you run a very successful computer shop.
Because Mega Corp has bottomless resources, it offers every product and service you provide for 30 percent less. They lose money on everything, but they don't care. Six months later you are out of business.
Mega Corp then raises its prices higher than you used to charge.
Unbridled capitalism is evil. There must be some kind of balance between profit and fairness. - Khast, on 07/11/2009, -4/+31Since I would be purchasing a netbook most likely for doing work while I am out and about... While K/Ubuntu definitely needs some polishing to make it more appealing to the public, I think it has come a long way. Other than games, Ubuntu can do everything that a Windows system can. (Sure there is a few driver problems...but if a system is built with hardware that Linux already supports, it will work 100%...as most netbooks are set up with hardware that Linux supports there should be no excuse for drivers not working even for wi-fi and graphics.)
Most of the problem I see with Microsoft fanboys claiming that Linux as being useless, is the simple fact that Linux IS NOT A GAMING OS. Never has been, probably never will be. It may have a few games, but that is not where it's strengths are. (For that matter UNIX and the variations aren't designed with games in mind, they have a stronger security than Windows ever will*, and make superior servers.)
*Windows security flew out the proverbial window because users whine because they are asked for their password too frequently, or aren't allowed to do certain tasks without changing to administrator...ect. Windows sacrifices security for convenience. - mrsteveman1, on 07/11/2009, -2/+28Most people couldn't tell the difference if they were configured to function similarly, with a start menu etc.
- defmer, on 07/11/2009, -7/+31yes it did . Two things happened first Asus got huge HW supply contract from Microsoft and a few days later Asus started to diss Linux. It does not take a genius to figure what happened int he meeting room.
This is not a theory its a fact, if can get hold of Asus sales figures and details... u will see it. - mrBitch, on 07/11/2009, -2/+26That still leaves you with the fact that you're still running Windows.
If you have actually used a Linux distro for a few weeks, you will understand just how poorly Windows compares against an OS that just works far more efficiently with fewer resources.
Linux is the perfect OS for netbooks. - zer0mass, on 07/11/2009, -1/+22This brings up the point that I don't understand. What software are people running on these things that make them think they need Windows? They are definitely not gaming machines. Open up firefox and...... oh look nothing is different and you can do everything you expect. At that point who cares if you have a Start button or big K on the bottom of the screen or an Applications menu on the top.
- Oezis92, on 07/11/2009, -6/+23.... OR he could just install OpenOffice on Windows
- inactive, on 07/11/2009, -1/+17ubuntu netbook remix works flawlessly on the eeepcs if you must have linux on your asus
- inactive, on 07/11/2009, -5/+21Am I missing something? I've never owned a netbook, but is it really that difficult to uninstall programs on one with an MS OS? I have a hard time buying he couldn't figure how to uninstall Works or Norton. You don't have to activate Norton to begin with.
- mrsteveman1, on 07/11/2009, -0/+16Vista basic won't run well on netbooks, thats why they don't ship it, and why they had to make a huge push to get 7 working on them.
- skektek, on 07/11/2009, -2/+18@Schweppesale
What are talking about "hunting down packages" most distributions have central repositories. installing software is as simple as picking from a list. Infinitely easier than hunting down software for Windows on the Internet and praying to whatever god you fear that it isn't actually spyware.
What did you find lacking about Virtual Box?
Packages are standardized: RPM, DEB, BIN, or TGZ Unless you complaining about actually having a choice.
@holeepenguinpee
That is a two way street. I work for a smallish IT company and I do A LOT of installations (both Windows and Linux) on new and older hardware and I can tell you that Windows is a much bigger PITA to install. Most of the time the only thing that works out-of-the-box is the display. You have to hunt down NIC (these are the best, you have to use another computer), audio, and chipset drivers - if you are lucky after 10 reboots you will have everything working(even then I have run into sound cards or software modems that will not work with Windows even with the manufacturers recommended drivers) With Linux almost everything works out-of-the-box, granted that one device that doesn't work will probably be a bitch to get going. - inactive, on 07/11/2009, -0/+15Here is portion of the EULA for Windows XP Pro.
"By installing, copying, downloading, accessing or otherwise using the SOFTWARE, you agree to be bound by the terms of
this EULA. If you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, you may not use or copy the SOFTWARE, and you should
promptly contact Manufacturer for instructions on return of the unused product(s) in accordance with Manufacturer’s
return policies."
Link to the full EULA: javascript:fnopenURL('http://download.microsoft.com/Documents/UseTerms/W ...
If you are forced to buy a Windows machine and like Linux, check out what the manufacturers return policy for not using Microsoft BEFORE YOU BUY THEIR PRODUCT and install Linux. I think you may be able to get a refund for the Windows license if you never activate it. I have heard people tried this years ago but never heard what came of it. - cawpin, on 07/11/2009, -1/+16Well, no, uninstalling Norton isn't like uninstalling any other program. To get it COMPLETELY off your system you need to use the Norton Removal Tool. Still, though, it isn't hard.
- 7aji, on 07/11/2009, -0/+14The problem is that the Linux option from the OEM is gone and you will pay for Windows XP even if you want to install a Linux distro on your netbook.
Also XP isn't that great to use on netbooks small screens. Holding alt and click to move applications windows around the screen is a life saver in Linux when using it on a netbook. - mrsteveman1, on 07/11/2009, -6/+20"Really are you guys that desperate to say that MS had "forced" Asus to drop linux to hide from the well documented fact that Linux powered laptops had an extremely high return rate? Something Ubuntu themselves confirmed?"
Are you kidding? One has nothing to do with the other, and both are probably true.
If you're seriously trying to paint Microsoft innocent here you don't understand the history. This is EXACTLY what Microsoft has done repeatedly in the past, they like to bully OEMs into dropping competitors software. - TurboSquid, on 07/11/2009, -4/+18How would they make more money ONLY installing Windows? Linux is a product that costs them nothing to offer beyond the cost of installing their own branding. For ever 20 Windows systems sold they could sell one Linux system, so why not offer the choice. I for one have passed up buying these devices in stores as I have no interest in buying another copy of Windows I will un-install and never use. For those who want to buy a laptop or netboot with Linux pre-loaded check out http://www.system76.com/
- FKnight, on 07/11/2009, -7/+20I really can't take seriously an article written by someone who thinks Works and MS Live cost extra money, thinks Word is part of Works, can't figure out how to uninstall Norton, and doesn't know how to download OpenOffice.
I'm amazed he was able to boot his Linux machine given his stupidity.
But we all know better and know for a fact that people who write articles like this aren't that stupid. They are simply out for website hits on their articles, and they know that bashing Windows or Microsoft, no matter how stupid it's done, will get them those hits.
I bet he even wrote this article on his perfectly working Windows machine which I suspect he uses regularly. - archiesteel, on 07/11/2009, -0/+13You can't run most modern games on netbooks.
- Zaxcomp, on 07/11/2009, -2/+15Or a sign that they don't want bloatware slowing down a computer with, compared to a desktop, limited power.
- BrownieMix, on 07/11/2009, -4/+17Microsoft is kind of greedy.
- zer0mass, on 07/11/2009, -1/+14"When I used linux I had to look up commands/tutorials for pretty much everything I installed/changed. "
"Are you telling me this veteran linux user was incapable of looking a few simple things up?"
Yes because modern Linux is easy to use. You should not need to use commands more than you need to know DOS commands to use Windows. - mrBitch, on 07/11/2009, -1/+13@ petersonca, RE: " .. What threat? Linux is not gaining market share."
Your comment indicates you have no idea of what's going on in the netbook market.
http://www.netbookdigest.com/2009/02/12/the-cold-n ...
".. it might come as a shock that Microsoft still controls over 2/3 of the Netbook market. But Apple so far does not have a netbook product, so Linux has a respectable 1/3 of the market.
... In operating systems, what is going on is unprecedented."
The fact that Linux has 1/3 of the entire netbook market concerns Microsoft quite a bit.
Hence, your comment marks you out as an idiot. - inactive, on 07/11/2009, -3/+15Subsidized manufacturing?
Microsoft never plays fair, they likely offered Asus an offer they couldn't refuse. - spacecoyote, on 07/11/2009, -1/+12The mega corp example is good. I for instance was going to set up shop repairing computers for cheap in my town but then Office Depot and Staples introduced their services. Of course, they have only trained monkeys, not experts, and their services are nothing more than thinly veiled attempts to sell crap like Norton Antivirus. Then again, I can't compete with that; even if I can do cheaper, and I can convince people that I am an expert, people don't care: they want "one stop shopping" and they aren't bright enough to know that the *salesmen* they're dealing with aren't computer experts. And I'm not about to get into the business of selling office supplies.
- ChiaGod, on 07/11/2009, -0/+11Simple fix. There are anti-bundling laws in the US, consumers should be given a quick and easy way to return their unused windows license or simply obtain the same model computer w/o an OS (and install their own) at an appropriate discount.
To keep the manufacturers from low-balling customers, they should be required to offer Windows at no more than 130% of the price they refund for ommiting it (so if they say they'll credit you only $50 for not having Windows XP then they would be required to sell you windows for no more than $65.
Just like the last new car I bought, I declined the crappy ass factory stereo and got credited about $300. It really isn't that difficult.
And none of this HP *****, where they let you choose Ubuntu and save "$100" by "customizing" your PC. Of course, "customizing" immediately adds $300 to the price. So really they charge you $200 to dump Microsoft and get Linux (or no OS). - mozzep, on 07/11/2009, -3/+14People choose Google search; there are plenty of other options available. That's not a monopoly. When Microsoft when through its antitrust lawsuits, it was difficult, if not impossible, for the average consumer to get a computer that didn't use Windows. That's a monopoly.
- archiesteel, on 07/11/2009, -0/+10Slumper, you may succeed in installing some games on netbooks, but that's not what they're for. It's not the memory or processing power, it's the graphics card (and small screen).
As for the return numbers for Linux netbooks, I'd be curious to read some hard data on it. Microsoft has tons of money for fake grassroots campaigns, I wouldn't be surprised if that was a rumor they started. - morepowerr, on 07/11/2009, -0/+10And yet if you buy a laptop from any of the company site. You are forced to pay for a copy of fracking windows OS.
- DangerCollie, on 07/11/2009, -6/+16I don't believe that for a second. There's always a fraction of the market that wants Linux. It costs them, literally, nothing to appeal to that segment of the market. Only significant money buys that kind of corporate conversion.
Ubuntu Remix could have fixed their wireless issues. I run 9.04 on a Dell D610 and it's a rock.
Yes, Microsoft bought their loyalty. But it's now become an endless game of whack-a-mole in a market with ever-diminishing margins. This will be different because MS can't fight that battle forever. Without a compelling application base, they can't enforce their market dominance in the low-end hardware spectrum. - tnoy, on 07/11/2009, -1/+10They can install it for free, but that doesnt mean it doesnt cost them anything. There is more to the cost of the netbook than its hardware and the software on it.
I disagree with their move, but I'm not going to ignore the business-side costs of offering it. - Countess666, on 07/11/2009, -1/+10@al13n : you still paid for the windows licence.
- Mtown, on 07/11/2009, -8/+17No, he's blowing it out of proportion. Uninstalling works/norton works the same as uninstalling any other program. Norton actually might have a security thingy that prevents a virus from turning it off, and you can't uninstall it while it is running. All he had to do was turn off the security feature and uninstall. It doesn't come right out and SAY that but I figured it out without looking it up.
- 3242130193, on 07/11/2009, -2/+11Of course. The only reason Win7 is any good is because MS is threatened by Apple and Linux. It's also the reason Vista came out so long after XP and STILL was awful. There's no excuse when it takes over 6 years to release an operating system and it still sucks as hard as Vista, and the fact that they're pushing out W7 so fast is proof, AND it's cheaper.
And why did prices for XP drop after netbooks came out? If anything, they should go up - the raw material prices (haha, install CDs) aren't going anywhere and support cost should go up now that they have 3 operating systems on the market to support (2 at the time). I wish the EU would stand up to them and fine them hard on this point, as they're the only group with the balls to stand up to Redmond WA.
Now the MS shills on Digg can bury the truth all that they like. - Khast, on 07/11/2009, -3/+12...games.
well, that and the fact that Windows has a very large advertising budget. Most people know what Windows is...and because everyone says it works better...most people just believe the BS, instead of trying something new. I guess you could say Linux or MacOS is getting out of the comfort zone for people who use Windows.
They are afraid that they will find something is *gasp* different than what they are used to. - gothicform, on 07/11/2009, -1/+10The ASUS I bought two weeks ago came with a fully featured open source office package, some derivative of Open Office. It didn't come with Norton either!
- RPGmaster, on 07/11/2009, -1/+10You wouldn't be able to install ANY games on a netbook. And OpenOffice Writer has almost the exact same UI as Office 2003 and can do everything Word does.
- mrBitch, on 07/11/2009, -2/+11You heard about the return rate of Linux netbooks from an MS blogger who made the whole thing up... it was a complete fabrication made by Microsoft blogger Brandon LeBlanc :
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/04/de ...
" .. unclear to me how he can cite Canonical in reference to MSI return rates, as MSI's Linux-based Wind netbooks ship with Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED), not with Canonical's Ubuntu Linux distribution."
Also :
" .. Continually repeating that we 'confirmed' a 4x return over XP when we did nothing of the sort is really not worthy of a great company like Microsoft. If we are going to compete, let's do it on real facts and actual statements ... " - Nimda11, on 07/11/2009, -4/+12Sources? anything? why the ***** is this crap on the front page?!
- archiesteel, on 07/11/2009, -1/+9"I don't think it's too much of stretch to say that in a couple years time, netbooks will be able to manage WoW."
So in a couple of years, netbooks will be able to play a game that's five years old? Color me impressed. /s
Seriously, netbooks are not gaming rigs. Take this from someone working in the games industry: the type of games people play on netbooks are web-based games or casual games such as Bejeweled and the like. Linux can play web-based games, and it usually comes with tons of casual games. Hey, you can even play WoW on it, though again I wouldn't try that on a netbook.
That's just not the target market for netbooks, so even if it's possible it doesn't enter the equation. People are much more likely to play on their phone or on a Nintendo DS. PC Gaming is an increasingly niche market, divided into light/casual games and hardcore FPS/RTS games. The former don't need Windows, and the latter need *powerful* machines.
You can't continue to argue that it's possible, but you're missing the point: it's not something that will affect people's decision when buying a netbook, period.
"C'mon dude, enough of the conspiratorial stuff. I'm not digging anything up, but is was well documented in industry news that returns on Ubuntu machines far exceeded expectations"
I've heard about this, but never saw any hard numbers on it, just MSI's assertion that the return rate was "four times higher". No word on whether it was just MSI's netbooks (which wouldn't be surprising, since they were using a badly-customized version of SUSE), or what the normal return rate is (if it's 0.25%, for example, that only means a 1% return rate).
So there you go: no hard data, just vague off-the-cuff remarks. I'd be surprised if MS didn't jump on this and used it in their never-ending astroturfing campaign against LInux. You certainly don't help with your own superlatives, insinuating that Canonical admitted that returns "far exceeded expectations" when all they said was that it was "above normal", something they ascribed to people ordering the wrong OS by mistake (not surprising, since many people don't even know what an OS does in the first place). So until you actually have some data, I'll continue to be skeptical about these claims.
As for "conspirational stuff", we wouldn't be so quick to suspect Microsoft if it hadn't engaged in such shady practices for decades. They ruined their own reputation, and it's going to take a long time - if ever - before they deserved to be trusted in that regard. - bdbr, on 07/11/2009, -3/+11This guy makes three wild-ass guesses, then takes the one that sounds most scandalous and makes it a headline. He could just as easily have used the headline, "Is Linux not up the task of a netbook OS?" (one of his other wild-ass guesses), but that wouldn't get the hits of an attack on Windows.
Buried as LAME. - zer0mass, on 07/11/2009, -1/+9I don't think they gave the Linux machines enough time to sell. Also they should have not included that toy interface on Linux without doing the same for Windows. Change the interface and put a real Linux distro on it and actually give it the marketing it needs.
- mrBitch, on 07/11/2009, -1/+9@ skektek, RE: " .. I work for a smallish IT company and I do A LOT of installations (both Windows and Linux) on new and older hardware and I can tell you that Windows is a much bigger PITA to install.
Most of the time the only thing that works out-of-the-box is the display. You have to hunt down NIC, audio, and chipset drivers - if you are lucky after 10 reboots you will have everything working (even then I have run into sound cards or software modems that will not work with Windows even with the manufacturers recommended drivers).
With Linux almost everything works out-of-the-box.. "
This also happens when you have to re-install a Windows OS on an older laptop... good luck trying to find all the required Windows drivers even from the laptop manufacturer's own web site. - inactive, on 07/11/2009, -2/+10Hunting down packages? WTF?
WINE? Virtualbox? What are doing to this tiny netbook? Are you running a game server?
They are supposed to be used for quick browsing, finishing that document on the run, read the news on the train home and check emails, social networking with the ability to rapidly manipulate images, files, documents. You are not supposed to VM Microsoft office and run Adobe creative suite on them!
*****, get some perspective! - archiesteel, on 07/11/2009, -0/+7Interesting tidbit of news (which makes Asus' change of heart even more suspicious): right after MSI said the rate of return was higher for Linux netbooks, Asus' CEO said there was no significance between returns of Linux and Windows notebooks:
http://ostatic.com/blog/asus-ceo-says-linux-netboo ...
Considering that Asus had a better version of Linux, and that they sold a *lot* more Linux netbooks than MSI, I'd say their assertion is probably more accurate. As such, you should stop repeating MSI's line as if it was gospel, because nothing's settled in this regard. - mrsteveman1, on 07/11/2009, -4/+11Actually it would be Asux
- Myztry, on 07/11/2009, -1/+8Considering web users are becoming one if not the biggest markets, you are kind of saying Firefox doesn't suit 99.6% of the population which we all know isn't true.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 191 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is