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- Mejogid, on 04/22/2008, -2/+56I can't quite understand the argument of this piece - he starts off by arguing that Ubuntu is targeted primarily at business users (and never really proves that satisfactorily), then claims that they're now focussing more on home users. His argument that it is targeted at business users is based on a few sound bites from press releases, but he seems to ignore their massive home user community or the success with Dell systems.
He then proceeds to argue that the inclusion that new youtube and mythtv plugins for totem (misstated as a youtube plugin for mythtv) indicates they're moving away from business desktops, despite the fact this was developed upstream - I believe by the fedora guys - and had nothing to do with Ubuntu. Oh, and neglects to mention the inclusion of compiz by default in previous releases which I would hardly include a business critical feature. Besides that, the only tangible message I can extract from the article is that the author considers the business desktop will help fund and lead the consumer desktop, which pretty much goes without saying.
Sorry if that's an overly harsh analysis... I probably need more coffee... - vln004, on 04/22/2008, -7/+36interesting read indeed. however, i think you are reading into the announcements much too literally. I'm running ubuntu on my laptop with NO errors and every single piece of hardware working completely as it should out the box. My point is this, ubuntu has been built for the consumer desktop since it was born and it always will be.
- inactive, on 04/22/2008, -6/+30Rambling incoherent BS.
"Ubuntu isn't only for the desktop!! OMG It can be using in enterprise as thats their target!!! *GASP* "
Well here's the thing. Canonical is a business. Unlike the Debian folks these guys want to turn a profit at some stage, and the only way to do that in OSS-land is through services. Who pays for services? Enterprise does. Are they behind Novell and Red HAt, yeah maybe, but who's got the momentum if not the market cap.?
No mystery. No conspiracy. No "The Usual Suspects" type ending here. Author should lay off the doob for a while. - arjie, on 04/22/2008, -0/+15"Google, Adobe, and Skype--the usual open source friendly suspects"
One of these things is not like the others, One of these things just doesn't belong. - inactive, on 04/22/2008, -2/+17I agree/disagree with your comment and have dugg you up/down
- NICU, on 04/22/2008, -0/+12Annoying article... They're pushing this release towards businesses because its an LTS release - its designed for people who want long term support. The next few releases will be more targeted towards the home desktop. Stop speculating, it only makes you look foolish.
- Spr0k3t, on 04/22/2008, -12/+24Quite the read. Interesting view on the subject.
- Culyt, on 04/22/2008, -0/+10Exactly. Ubuntu has a much different development cycle compared to most other distros, expecially the desktop, It seems the writer doesn't really understand exactly how the development works. Picking on MythTV support not being for commercial use kind of pointless since that support might have been added by:
* Fluendo/gStreamer (I notice that it can now play mythtv's bastardized .mpg files (that are really .nuv) rather than just freeze like it did in Gutsy)
* Debian (they have a multimedia repo with mythtv, it would not be much for the developers to grab the packages and put them into the ubuntu system)
* Media player (if the support they are talking about is other than the official mythtv frontend)
* Community developers
A lot of the desktop work is done by the community, they will add whatever features they want. Canonical will likely pay developers for Server side improvements, Launchpad development and specific stuff that they fell will help on the desktop since doing so does help overall. And another load of the work is done outside of the distro by the communities of specific. - vibrokatana, on 04/22/2008, -0/+7Their "Consumer" desktop is Fedora, which is vastly different from RHEL in terms of usage. If you try to run RHEL or CentOS on your home computer you would be vastly disappointed because the repository only contains "staple" packages aimed at workstation and server usage.
- vibrokatana, on 04/22/2008, -0/+7They don't have to offer a "desktop" distro. They already have Fedora, which is aimed at the end user. Since it is free they don't need to "offer" it.
- fucter, on 04/22/2008, -0/+6I agree red hat contributes a lot, Suse is right behind them.
I do know however, that Kubuntu contributes a lot of code back to the KDE project, and I just assume Ubuntu does the same for Gnome. so even though they may or may not contribute to the kernel, they all contribute code that everyone can benefit from. - silviumc, on 04/22/2008, -0/+6What is openSUSE if not a consumer product? You know you can buy it in a box, on a nice set of DVDs and a book, don't you? It has two years of support.
Also, note the difference between openSUSE and SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop.
They're like Windows Home Edition and Windows Professional, if you will. Not a good comparison, but it should convey the idea.
SLED has 5+2 years of support.
Disclaimer: I do think it's a little unfair that Ubuntu gets all the press while being just a packaging distro, without significant contributions to core Linux software.
Red Hat and SUSE contribute a lot to heavy stuff like the kernel, glibc, Gnome, KDE.
Ok, I have a concession to make because Mark Shuttleworth is a Patron of KDE but, apart from this, I don't know of anything else. - tHePeOPle, on 04/22/2008, -1/+6Please provide link to said article on fish prices in China.
- ToadLeg, on 04/22/2008, -2/+7I think his main point was actually that Red Hat and Novell picked an interesting week to come out with comments about Linux on home and business computers. However, it isn't as if it would be surprising anyway - of course people who develop other distros are going to have something to say about what will probably be the biggest event in the history of Linux so far. It's still interesting to read; he seems to kind of throw a few ideas around.
- Fergy, on 04/22/2008, -1/+5All of these 3 aren't open source friendly. They are closed source. They may be Linux friendly but certainly not open source friendly.
- init100, on 04/22/2008, -0/+4"Enterprise uses windows because all of their employees use windows at home."
You think so? Some maybe, but I've never had any employer cared the least about what system I use at home. - ljkelley, on 04/22/2008, -2/+6Actually... since nobody seems to get it yet. Red Hat, Novell, and Canonical don't get a dime from Consumers but get quite good 'support contracts' from Business Users. Thats how the Majority of Microsoft's success is at as well. They do great support for Business users and charge alot for it as well.
Sadly since Consumer Linux is Free, you will not see the target for it except from companies such as Linspire that charge for it and sell it to OEMs. Perhaps Ubunta should include a charge option like Mandrivia does which includes a free year or support especially in getting lazy consumers set up to do everything they did on Windows. They should focus on this revenue stream rather than promoting its free download cousin. After all Microsoft includes free support, and requires HP, Dell etc to support consumers for atleast a year. - EPICFAILURE, on 04/22/2008, -5/+91. WRITE INCOHERENT ARTICLE
2. GET ON DIGG
3. ??
4. BRIAN PROFFITT! - tripzero, on 04/22/2008, -0/+4seems to me that Fedora is becoming less of a Red Hat project as of late and more and more community driven. But that's just my limited observation.
- AmnioticEntity, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3do not ever apologize for the stupidity of others.
- thewump, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3Depends if we're talking 32 or 64
- Remmy, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3Adobe is now a member of the Linux Foundation. That said, they still do not offer open source solutions to the consumer yet. And 64 bit users are still screwed when it come to Adobe.
- chanop, on 04/22/2008, -3/+6I didn't realize Ashton Kutcher was into linux
- tHePeOPle, on 04/22/2008, -1/+4Sigh. It's an actual article on fish prices in China. I was so hoping for a rockroll.
- melkore, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3So it's basically like any other OS? If you start poking around without knowing what you are doing it might break.
It is odd in gnome that you can't right click->delete items out of the menus but it doesn't bother me too much. - pilobilus, on 04/22/2008, -0/+3Adobe is actively hostile toward open source and open standards. They believe they got burned by publishing adequate documentation for the PDF format and they "will never ever make THAT mistake again". Right up till their last product is obsoleted by frustrated Linux developers, and enterprises looking to get out from under massive software costs.
- inactive, on 04/24/2008, -0/+2Momentum is not about position, is it about..... momentum. Understand? Ubuntu's server product is actually undergoing government certification, this will open the cash flodgates, Sun Microsystems is also going to preinstall it on some servers. Red Hat and Novell have pretty much plateaued.
- daradib, on 04/22/2008, -0/+2The reality is, that windows is popular as a bussniss desktops _only_ _because_ it is popular as a consumer desktop.
Actually your statement should be reversed. Windows is popular as a consumer desktop only because it is popular as a business desktop. Microsoft focused and still focuses on business first. That led to their monopoly on software. Apple, on the other hand, focused more on consumers. Tell me, which one is more successful in operating systems? - MeneerR, on 04/22/2008, -0/+2I would vote skype. It's against open standards. Skype is not the product, skype users are not the customer. Rather the skype users are the product. The phone company is the customer, and skype is the method of social extortion.
- init100, on 04/22/2008, -0/+2Then what do you call the annual Google Summer of Code? That isn't OSS friendly?
- 0L1VER, on 04/23/2008, -0/+2I'm an Ubuntu user, but I agree that in some areas, it's behind Linux. There's no point starting a Windows vs Linux thread, so I'll just list all the arguments:
HARDWARE - Linux supports more hardware out of the box than Windows, but Windows is more popular, so there are more driver CDs, so if hardware doesn't work, it can be made to work with little effort. Virtually all hardware can be made to work with Linux, but often you need to edit configuration files yourself, although this is happening less and less often.
SECURITY - Linux wins, due to no viruses. You could argue that this is because it's less popular, but the Linux kernel is extremely secure. If you want to use the argument that Windows is more popular so there are more viruses, then you can't use the argument that Windows has more software, because it's more popular.
SOFTWARE - Windows has more, but there is (in my opinion) more high-quality free software available for Linux. All important applications can be made to work through Wine (although this is often a difficult task). Free software replacements are available for every major application, and many others.
INTERFACE - Linux has a choice of desktops. It's down to personal taste, and what you personally prefer. I like Windows, but I prefer GNOME. However, I really don't like KDE, but I know that a lot of people completely disagree!
SPECIAL EFFECTS - There's no doubt that Compiz Fusion is better than Windows Aero. CF can do everything Aero can, and a whole lot more.
Ubuntu FTW! - aoe2bug, on 04/22/2008, -2/+4or even a decent one...
(sorry) - Chandon, on 04/22/2008, -0/+2> programs that start up and then just quit without any error messages or anything.
That's a serious bug. If you find a bug like that in a beta release you should report it - that's the whole point of a beta. - init100, on 04/22/2008, -0/+2Unfortunately, home users are probably the most expensive ones to support. In enterprise support, you usually deal with (at least somewhat) qualified IT staff, while home user support includes hand-holding for the entirely clueless ones.
- Mejogid, on 04/22/2008, -0/+2"It read more like a press release for Linux"
The introduction does, admittedly, but that's really just setting Hardy in the context of linux as a whole.
"As soon as you start adding and deleting programs you start having all these "things" happening "
I'm not too sure what you mean - applications are generally far better behaved than on Windows in so much as they don't try to steal file associations, chuck stuff on your desktop, chuck stuff in your quick launch bar, pollute the registry or install drivers to combat piracy.
"menu item that can't be deleted"
You get menu items on Windows as well (OS X follows a different philosophy so it's not really a valid comparison) and they can be deleted - check out System -> Preferences -> Main Menu.
"programs that start up and then just quit without any error messages or anything"
Sounds to me like you're installing packages made for a different distro release - gutsy packages perhaps? Packages from the repositories may have had problems during development but this shouldn't be an issue if you install packages built for hardy.
"Listing logs is useless and the terminal mode is too easy to screw everything up for a beginner."
Logs are extremely useful for diagnosing a problem - through google, your own initiative or by asking others. The terminal mode is immensely powerful, and unless you start throwing 'sudo' in front of commands you don't understand it's no more dangerous than the GUI. It's hard to explain just how much time this will save you if you take the time to learn the basics. Besides, it's now perfectly possible to do the sort of task most beginners are interested in without resorting to the CLI.
But yes, you're right - a system built around multiple users and sane permissions makes it very easy to restrict users in a networked environment without handicapping them or getting in the way. - newwatch51, on 04/22/2008, -0/+2Since 2003 when Fedora Core 1 came out. It was actually a very good distro
- glinsvad, on 04/22/2008, -2/+4http://tinyurl.com/5tnfcc
- Mejogid, on 04/22/2008, -1/+3Ubuntu *does* contribute a fair chunk of useful code - little thinks like their Update Manager, Alacarte Menu Editor and Restricted Drivers Manager are making their way up stream. Furthermore, many patches and font rendering tweaks etc. have made their way back up to Debian and upstream projects. Oh, and by taking fairly cutting edge software and putting it out to a large userbase (generally a couple of months earlier than Fedora or SuSE in the case of Gnome, Compiz/Beryl, Xorg and Firefox 3) they get their fair share of useful bug reports upstream.
Oh, and I'd say pushing overall coherence and polish is doing the Linux desktop as a whole a world of good. - init100, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1"Ubuntu has a much different development cycle compared to most other distros, expecially the desktop"
What is so different between the development cycle of Ubuntu and the development cycle of e.g. Fedora? - inactive, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1No one really important and doing anything worthwhile in their lives care for stories like this. MOVE ALONG>
- init100, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1It still is. I'm waiting for the release of Fedora 9, which I will use to upgrade my Fedora 7 installation at home.
- init100, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1"Are they behind Novell and Red HAt, yeah maybe, but who's got the momentum if not the market cap.?"
Are you saying Ubuntu has a stronger momentum than Red Hat? Think again. Ubuntu has a strong momentum among home users of Linux, but in the enterprise they are far behind Red Hat and Novell. - cesclaveria, on 04/22/2008, -1/+2skype is free, some of their services are not (skypeIn, SkypeOut, etc), besides as far as I know it is not OSS
- HonoredMule, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1It's really NOT the other way around.
Microsoft caters primarily to the business world with their real technological efforts, then, after having taken the workstation crown (now in jeopardy), adds a little face paint for the consumer market. NOW they're everywhere, and can pretty much use their strength in any market to bully the other. But their real technology is still invested in appeasing developers and administrators, which were once their strengths. - heavyd14, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1I always have to wonder why we can't just use the word "Pranked", is it not extreme enough? Besides, neither of those words even fit here.
- el_taco, on 04/22/2008, -1/+2Once again, someone not using adblock plus.
- inactive, on 04/22/2008, -1/+2"Shuttleworth happily listed all of the cool tech that's coming out in the desktop edition, like Firefox 3; fSpot and Flickr integration; and MythTV and YouTube playback capability"
YouTube playback capability sure is cool tech. - snifer, on 04/22/2008, -1/+2Isn't Canonical trying to fix bug #1?
http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 - aidave, on 04/23/2008, -0/+1From a business point of view though, there is little money to be made in forums. If Canonical wants to make more money they could look into paid home support (although the cost to pay the support staff might be higher than the money made).
- fucter, on 04/22/2008, -0/+1it uses Qt if that counts for anything
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