What is Digg?167 Comments
- IamNomad, on 01/15/2009, -4/+77thats a horrible summary.
- kd420, on 01/15/2009, -2/+66I think they don't recommend it because if there is a problem, people will blame Dell. If you get a Windows virus/error/BSOD you usually think "Windows sucks!". But if these people who are new to Linux run into a problem they are more likely to think "Why did Dell sell me this!" instead. They are in MS's pocket, but that also allows them to pass the blame on. They are sort of sticking their neck out by offering Linux since many people don't know about Canonical etc. and the only company they can be sure is partially responsible would be Dell. This is just a basic theory, obviously there is some pressure from MS to downplay Linux.
- dygel, on 01/16/2009, -3/+63Of course they don't recommend it.
If you're a window shopper, odds are you're not a power user. If you're not a power user, obviously Dell wants Microsoft's user experience to coddle you because you're less likely to hurt yourself. If you get confused by something new and unfamiliar, that means that Dell CS gets more calls and therefore spends more money.
If you are a power user, you don't need them to recommend it to you to decide if you want it or not. - temujin2012, on 01/16/2009, -12/+50Over-militant much?
It's just an operating system. - Outdoor83, on 01/16/2009, -9/+43For your average Joe, Linux isn't what you want. You want what you know, what was on your last box. You need to understand that the Office CD you got from work won't realistically function. Cust Service is making sure they know this.
Dell's giving free choice and discouraging people away from what they probably actually don't want. This is fine. Go back and find something else to pitchfork about. - inactive, on 01/15/2009, -5/+27OR, as I see all the time, the techies are lost when dealing with Linux....
You call for help, you are really being read a script....for Linux, the script is no good. - revenz, on 01/16/2009, -0/+17ok bury me, but i understand dell not recommending linux. if your a computer novice, and you dont know much, having windows will make your life easier. if you want to play a game down the line (like the sims, thats a computer novice type game), you'll be out of luck. having windows does have it downsides (more viruses etc) but it also has its good sides, and is easier for computer novices to use. so there i said it, i agree with dell. well understand why the rep said that.
- ethana2, on 01/16/2009, -0/+15You're going STRAIGHT TO WINDOWS.
- ToastPop, on 04/17/2009, -10/+24Way to make a mountain out of a molehill. You are free to choose your operating system, but Linux users are just constantly in denial of the fact that in a choice between Windows or Linux, Windows is more user-friendly and has far more application support that Linux. I wouldn't recommend Linux to someone who isn't tech-savvy either, they won't be happy when they come home to find out they can't get iTunes up and running with their iPhone, or that their new printer doesn't have any Linux drivers.
Linux is a great concept, but fans need toaccept the fact that it's going to need the support of a lot of different companies before becoming something you should recommend to your grandma. - sexydawg, on 01/16/2009, -3/+16Buried for being a non-story.
I wouldn't recommend it to anybody not knowing what their level of proficiency is either. If you're wanting to promote adoption of Linux, throwing on hapless noobs who will only get frustrated when they try to use it is not the way to do it. - 10scott10, on 01/16/2009, -1/+14its probably because otherwise idiots would get it, and because they didn't know what to do they would blame everyone else.
like this story that was on the front page earlier today
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Causes_Girl_To_D ... - Projektorboy, on 01/16/2009, -2/+14That kind of attitude won't help grow the adoption that a lot of Linux users so desperately want.
- werries, on 01/16/2009, -0/+12its your choice. we don't really care.
also, shell scripting is efficient, so you're missing out =P - D3koy, on 01/16/2009, -7/+19I know people I wouldn't recommend Linux for. Just because you like it doesn't mean it's right for everyone. Think Christianity.
- ronaldmonster, on 01/16/2009, -0/+11Bicep, I hate you, seriously. I know you love linux but your comments and stories are laughable and borderline stupid.
- metateck, on 01/16/2009, -0/+10"He doesn't use a computer as much as he uses a small handful of applications on it. Kind of like a refrigerator."
What? - SEN5241, on 01/16/2009, -2/+12Think of the poor blonde Art History majors who'll be forced to drop out of college!
- alexforcefive, on 01/16/2009, -1/+11if you're not with the soldiers of freedom, then you're against freedom! Why do you hate freedom, IamNomad?
/sarcasm, just in case... - prossi10, on 01/16/2009, -1/+10They're trying to prevent people from running into the problems that this girl faced: http://i.gizmodo.com/5132132/wisconsin-girl-cancel ...
"As ridiculous as it may be, let this serve as a parable. Just because you and I know that setting up a DSL connection without the install CD is pretty easy, and that Open Office can save Word-compatible documents just fine, poor Annie—a perfect representation of a mainstream user if I ever saw one—got tripped up. Linux will never truly go seamlessly mainstream with problems like this persisting."
I don't think we as self proclaimed nerds really understand just how hard it is for the average computer user to figure out new computer related things. - vectorjohn, on 01/16/2009, -1/+10Nobody is in denial. Well, some may be. But Linux is not less user friendly than windows. Not anymore. However, users that only know exactly how to navigate to the internet, surf the web, click the icons they recognize, etc, are going to think Linux is hard to use because its not *identical*.
These are the same users that would be totally lost when going from XP to Vista. - merreborn, on 01/16/2009, -0/+8If Dell doesn't do that for Windows (and they don't) why would they do it for Ubuntu?
Operating system support isn't really the responsibility of the hardware manufacturer. - matt.rubin, on 01/16/2009, -0/+6BECAUSE YOU MIGHT HAVE TO DROP OUT OF COLLEGE FOR IT?!?!?!?!
- kinseyincanada, on 01/16/2009, -4/+10soldiers of freedom? geez you fanboys have really gone over the edge.
- duncypoo, on 01/16/2009, -1/+7This is such a common problem.
I work in a brick-and-mortar electronics store in the UK, and the advice I've heard colleagues give to people can be outrageous. I've had folks asking about this 'Linux' thing and will it do the basics they need (yes) etc. and heard phrases like "It's a little cheaper, but the problem is that it runs Linux". These guys are intelligent people, free to sell whatever products they like. The customer is interested; the product is perfect and will save them money. What is the problem?
I'm an avid Mac and Linux user, and it pains me to see potential users of non-Microsoft products actively discouraged from switching.
I recently set my grandmother up with a computer so she could better keep in touch with her family in and around London (we're in Scotland) and with Ubuntu set up perfectly she now has a near unbreakable machine that does everything she wants (and more). I wanted to cry when I heard my Uncle exclaim: "Well this is no use, why doesn't it have Windows on it?!"
EDIT: I see a lot of people talking about n00b users running into problems, but with accurate, unbiased advice this should never happen. These things should be explained to every customer. Or am I one of the few sales guys left who cares more about providing a great customer experience and less about minimising customer time and hitting targets. - DarkCloud515, on 01/16/2009, -0/+5I didn't read the article yet but if it's only "not recommended" I don't see a problem with it. The average end-user wouldn't even know what Ubuntu is. And if you can save $100 by choosing "Ubuntu" over Windows then why not? But there's when the problem comes into play. Most won't want to learn a new OS and want a refund. Then add the cost of a Windows license AFTER you brought the computer, people complain.
- Asten77, on 01/16/2009, -0/+6Buried for moronicness - people who know they want Ubuntu will get it. People who don't know they want Ubuntu aren't going to want Ubuntu, and Dell really probably doesn't want people who don't want Ubuntu to have Ubuntu because they wouldn't have the first clue about what to do with it.
+1 for super-use of Ubunutu - miatman, on 01/16/2009, -0/+5I like using linux, but im not going to recommend it to my grandmother living in another state....as the family tech guy, i could only imagine the nightmare of troubleshooting an issue with her over the phone for a linux system.
- "Ok grandma, go to your bash"
- "Bash? Ill have to get your grandfather, he's stronger."
yeah, no thanks. - censormagnet, on 01/16/2009, -4/+9ya ***** taxes!
- JudgeDredd, on 01/16/2009, -0/+5I'm pretty sure he trolls Fark with the name Linux_Yes. I hate him too.
- FutureGuy, on 01/16/2009, -1/+6Well put. I don't think the average user even know what an OS is. They will try to install their favorite app, which might no longer work, call Dell, yell at them and then return the machine. Dell loses money, Dell is not a charity its in there to make money.
- steger, on 01/16/2009, -1/+6I think it's more kinda like a toaster oven.
- isthisadream85, on 01/16/2009, -2/+7I happen to work for Dell. The reason Dell doesn't recommend Linux is because it generates an unbelievable amount of customer satisfaction issues and more than half the systems get returned. People just don't know how to use it and don't care to learn. It only makes good business sense to not recommend something like that. To be honest you're lucky we're selling it at all...
- dusanmal, on 01/16/2009, -1/+6Problem is in the false view that there is greater application support in Windows. Most Linux distributions come with so much pre-installed useful software that cover such application range that you'd need to spend few thousand dollars to get similar coverage in Windows. Even more importantly, most modern Linux distributions integrate software updates with automatic OS updates and new software installations with the same system. No need to search where to find application, pay for it, update or maintain it. Neither Window nor Mac are even remotely near such range of software and such integrated support.
On the recommendation to grandma, I actually educated two 80+ yrs. people in their first computer usage, ever. Both with similar (somewhat techy') life experiences (advanced degrees). One with Fedora Linux one with Win XP (choice arising from already available machines for them). Initial learning curve was almost identical. Further progress on their own - minimal progress on XP person, significant progress on Linux person. Small and unintended experiment, but implications against Linux/MS bias are obvious.
And it works on the "young" side as well. About year ago I gave my 10 yr. old nephew who is not techy ("in sports") old PC and 4 websites to instruct him how to install Linux and MythTV on it (as he saw my MythTV system and wanted it). He alone installed Linux and MythTV and had it working within a week and no other help but few given websites. It can't be that user unfriendly if 10 yrs olds don't give up on it quickly. - thedude42, on 01/16/2009, -1/+5Winner!
- DyceFreak, on 01/16/2009, -2/+6or maybe they don't recommend it because windows is a wider used platform meaning there are not only bountiful amounts of support tools from both commercial and 3rd party end, but as an unofficial industry standard, integration with the parent company is just much more simple than a completely different approach, Ubuntu.
We are lucky we get a choice at all. The truth is, Linux is not everywhere, it is not common knowledge, and especially in businesses like this, it is not as integrated throughout. It is not used on their office computers, and they need a specially trained team just to provide support. So how about you quit your bitching and realize that the fact they don't recommend it isn't based on money, its based on the fact that windows still runs on 80% of the computers in the world, and everyone knows it, and not the other.
When you look at Dell, you are looking at a computer for the home user, whatever be it they do. And to provide the best user experience for the product they are receiving, they recommend a more supported operating system for a smoother operating experience. Plain and simple.
And until Linux gets off of their 100 different version decentralized-support, decentralized-software-development ass, then maybe it will have a chance. - debauch, on 01/16/2009, -0/+4it's all about laziness on the part of end users and that extends way beyond linux to computers as a whole. all day long i deal with people that simply can't live without being able to check their email every 15 seconds, but they have no clue how to configure an account in outlook. it's a wonder they're not walking around barefoot because they can't figure out how to tie their shoes.
how many of you that do layer 8 support have ever been asked, it says click next to continue do i click next? i've actually had people ask me, what's a semi-colon? they tell me, i don't have a refresh button on on my web browser. i even had one person last month insist there was no 'c' key on their keyboard when i asked them to press 'ctrl+c'. they don't have the vocabulary to articulate what they want so they make up their own nomenclature and then they get all pissed when the person they called for help can't understand a damn thing they're saying.
you can't blame that on linux. and i'm not some sort of fan boy either; i run xp on my home desktop, backtrack 3 on my netbook, leopard at work, and i have a couple colocated servers running centos and server 2k3. as far as i'm concerned all operating systems suck at some things. linux sucks for bleeding edge gaming there's no doubt, but if all an end user needs is internet, email and an office suite there's no reason they have to use windows unless they like shelling out money unnecessarily. linux has better hardware support and better documentation than mac os or windows, some people are just too lazy to use google and they lack the reading comprehension and critical thinking skills necessary to know when it's ok to click next to continue. - Planets, on 01/16/2009, -3/+7Haha, soldiers of freedom? Well, the way you guys try to convert everyone _is_ kind of militant.
- wissler, on 01/16/2009, -2/+6A better summary: "Whine whine whine I'm a Linux fanboy whine whine whine."
PS: I use Ubuntu myself most of the time. - davidrools, on 01/16/2009, -0/+4Since when has a CSR ever said anything even remotely correct, much less meaningful or influential.
- Phocion55, on 01/16/2009, -3/+7Key word here: *I*. I can't do this...I can't do that.
You don't speak for everyone. Just because your personal situation doesn't allow you to use Linux to its full extent doesn't mean other people can't. - DarkerMaster, on 01/16/2009, -1/+5Don't know why everyone is digging you down...Your absolutely correct.
- Tehrab, on 01/16/2009, -6/+10I exercise my right to freedom from shell scripting. Take that, Linux!
OK, Linux users, you can now commence to racking and then disemboweling me for daring to speak ill of your crap distro and its beloved kernel. - nutmac, on 01/16/2009, -0/+4And like any OSs, Ubuntu is far from perfect. I use it daily at my workplace, and aside from Mac OS X, I wouldn't trade it for anything. But it has some serious unresolved bugs (many of which are unassigned still), such as 1.5 year old bug where certain keys get stuck for no apparent reason (https://bugs.launchpad.net/emacs/+bug/124406).
- Sealbhach, on 01/16/2009, -0/+4My brother's been using Ubuntu trouble free for 8 months. His Vista setup got porned out and he had to pay $150 to some tech store just to run antivirus. He begged me to put Ubuntu on there.
- inactive, on 01/16/2009, -0/+4I have used phone support in the past and they script most of the preliminary checks.
I usually start the conversation that I am in IT and would like to speak to level-2 support, which is where you actually get knowledgeable help. Lelel-1 support are like gatekeepers to fix the obvious or common issues.
I just used online chat today to get a part......took about 30 seconds to identify the part in question and about another 4 minutes to place the order. I assume that Dell support is getting better, but past support really stunk - inactive, on 01/16/2009, -0/+4this is why i would never go to a digg meetup. bicep looks like a ***** psycho.
- snkscore, on 01/16/2009, -1/+5Well of course it isn't recommended!!
Don't you know that you can end up dropping out of college because of that decision???
I wouldn't recommend dropping out of college, so I can't recommend Ubuntu. - Sealbhach, on 01/16/2009, -0/+4Um, you can install Firefox in Add/Remove programs. Ubuntu comes with Firefox already installed anyway. Further, most software can be installed by selecting it from a list. If not, 90% of the rest is available as a .deb file that works just like an .exe. Nothing difficult for a Windows users. Please don't mislead peoples who have not yet had the pleasure of using Ubuntu.
- StreetPreacher, on 01/16/2009, -2/+5I really hope you're trying to be ironic. B/c if you're not, then it's really sad that you're world is so small that you think a computer guy suggesting that an older person who's not particularly tech savy NOT get Linux is some kind of affront to your personal freedom.
That's just sad. - bangmalley, on 01/16/2009, -2/+5it's not recommended to avoid this kind of stupidity
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Causes_Girl_To_D ... -
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