What is Digg?80 Comments
- ctkroeker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+34Some of the comments on those sites seem to be making fun and ridiculing the linux community, especially because this idea has the most votes and seems to be growing by hundreds of votes per minuite...
The main thing is choice. Even if Linux is in the minority, there schould be a choice to the monopolistic windows os, even if it be no OS at all. - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -5/+31We need to see action, not just attention. Last year, Michael Dell told SJVN that he would support Linux and that it's none of Microsoft's business. And where are we today? Still no preinstallation of Linux. And Dell machines with FreedDOS are more expensive (by design) than ones with Windows preloaded. Frankly, I am not surprised.
Did Microsoft want to 'whack' Dell over its Linux dealings?
http://news.com.com/Did+Microsoft+want+to+whack+Dell+over+its+Linux+dealings/2100-1014_3-6153904.html
Dell's secret Linux fling
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/09/dell_linux_china/
Microsoft 'killed Dell Linux' - States
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/03/19/microsoft_killed_dell_linux_states/
Does Dell do a $1-billion kickback thing with Microsoft? A fortnight ago it got caught doing this with Intel. Someone ought to step in and eradicate all this corruption. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24"Lame! The average consumer doesn't care or know what Linux is....."
That's why web browsers are equipped with scrollbars.
It's an option. That's all. Not interested? Just scroll on by. - el_jefe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18@ UglieJosh
I think you do not understand "average consumer". An average consumer wants to do what?
To code programs, scripts, and rewrite an operating system?
Or do they want to surf the web, send/receive email, share photos of their kids, all with as little effort as possible.
You can do that all with Linux, for a lot less money too. Sure its not windows. And yes, as a Linux user myself, it can be hard installing apps. But if it came pre-installed, then whats the issue? The "average consumer" will call Dell support when there is a problem, just like they do with windows, and follow the steps the tech tells them. When they want to install something they will follow the directions. If you asked the average consumer which OS would you like Linux or Windows, some will say windows because they use it at work and not consider linux, some will ask, "does it matter", and some will ask "whats the difference", and some will say simply "the one that works". And when the sales rep says they both work, what will be the next question from joe blow consumer..."which one is cheaper?".
@ iceperson
Good question. Simply because not all of us think that way. And besides. Linux is about choice. Not about taking over the world. Most of us would simply like people to see and know there is a choice and that there are alternatives to windows... - evilTak, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18Dell's been saying they'll sell preloaded GNU/Linux machines for years. When I see them advertised on TV commercials or the frontpage of dell.com, I'll believe it.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15What do you think will attract more customers?
A.) Windows exclusive boxes
B.) Both Windows and Linux boxes - diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15I'm tired of hearing this kind of FUD *****. The #1 complaint about linux is the difficulty in getting the hardware to work. If Dell preinstalled Linux and sold linux-compatible hardware, THEN THERE WOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM.
Imagine a "Linux Desktop" section of the Dell website with Linux-friendly printers, wifi pcmcia cards, ATI r200-300 graphics cards that are compatible with open source 3D drivers, etc. - rmxz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14@marcuschi
No, customization isn't why people use Linux. Linux is popular because it's a secure and relatively trouble-free OS (more supported hardware than Vista, and no virus-update-headaches).
Having it pre-installed will make it even more trouble-free. - baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11or walk in to a Brick & mortar computer store such as CompUSA, OfficeDepot or Staples and see GNU/Linux boxes booted up for users to see for themselves...
- Megatog615, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Using Linux(a free O/S), it would remove the Microsoft tax(Office/Windows Vista together cost almost $200). Imagine buying one of their $299 computers at $99 because of the free O/S. I'd buy three of them on the spot.
- el_jefe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Only downfall with Linux.. it supports like 1/1000th of *current windows* applications.
There thats a little closer to reality. You don't get out on the web much do you? I think the Ubuntu distro comes with well over 10,000 applications, and I am willing to bet less that 1/1000th of those run on windows.
Sure there is no linux install for MS Office, or IE, or Windows Media Player, or Quicken...and so one. But there are equivelents. Some not as good, some the same or better. But to make a blanket statement that there are more applications for windows than linux is way off base. - Megatog615, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9If Linux controlled at least 20% of the market share, I'm sure game developers would port their games to it. If Dell sold Linux desktops, it would increase the usage of Linux, thus increasing market share, thus increasing developers.
- iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I bought a Dell with Red Hat linux pre-installed years ago.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Congrats. Sounds like you're one of the people who would click the "Windows" button instead of the "Linux" button.
We just defused that situation in 2 seconds. - diggsIt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Still overpriced, with no OS.
- xutopia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"Lame! The average consumer doesn't care or know what Linux is when they buy a PC. And they would be very pissed if their new Dell wouldn't run the new software and games they buy, all because they accidentally checked the box for Linux when they ordered the system."
Why would anyone check a box for something they have no clue what it is?
"This person even claims that Open Source software prevents piracy. How do you figure? The only way it prevents it is you wouldn't be able to run your favorite Windows software."
What software do you absolutely need Windows to run? Are you sure there are no equivalents for the open source world? - xutopia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6In the list of applications you know.
- ElectricKetchup, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6it would be nice if they supplied linux drivers for their laptops and not just their servers... I've got pretty much everything workong on my laptop except the smart card reader, and I can't get enough information from the TI specs on how to write my own driver. If they could push their vendors to write linux drivers or document their hardware enough so that others could write drivers, that would be a huge leap for linux.
- lowerlogic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I would buy my next laptop from Dell if they preinstalled Linux.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@mancat : Don't worry....I'm not being dugg down. But thanks for your concern.
- Shadowman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Quote from Michael Dell...
"If we say we like Ubuntu, then people will say we picked the wrong one. If we say we like and support Ubuntu, Novell, Red Hat, and Xandros, then someone would ask us, 'Why don't you support Mandriva? The challenge we have with picking one is that we think we'd disenchant the other distributions' supporters."
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html - ElectricKetchup, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5back when I was a sysadmin at a small software company, their phone tech support helped me when my dell redhat server got a bad hard drive. He helped me get the drivers needed for the perc card in redhat. It's not as bad as you might think.
- damienp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@bwesterman
You assume that all Linux users hate Microsoft and the people who use it. That's simply untrue. - wired4u, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I cringe when I think about dell support helping people with linux.
- subgeniusd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Three months ago Dell refused to sell me a laptop with no pre-installed OS. Said it just could not happen.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If Dell would like everyone's support, which it seems they do, why not make the OS a matter of choice at the time of purchase...and leave it at that. Once and for good. I think we're all able to make our own decisions. With Linux OSes freely available online and on CD/DVD shipped free of charge it's total no-brain-er.
- drdepoy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3better idea!
sell your PC's with a "No Operating System" option. Knock $200 off the price and let people install thier own OS.
Im tired of having to pay for an OS i will never use every time i buy a new computer.
of course this would undermind the microsoftopoly. - evilTak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The same bangladeshi reps couldn't help the same soccer mom fix her pc because her son installed bonzi buddy and a ton of other spyware either. You can do stupid things on any OS - only some OSs do the stupid things for you...
- subgeniusd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4One of the big jokes at MS support is Wal-Mart etc customers with new Linux boxes calling them asking where Word is and why the menu looks so weird. Some of us have yet to recognize how clueless the market is.
- tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3All I wanty is Linux-friendly hardware.
- mbabauer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'd love to buy a store-bought box with Linux pre-installed. When I was younger, I would not have EVER considered a pre-built anything, but now that I am older I have come to appreciate the ability to pick up a phone and make my problem someone else's. If Dell does go this route, they need to partner with someone for support, maybe through Red Hat or something.
- insomuchas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3people will have no trouble using linux if its pre installed. most people only use the browser, email and solitaire. just make a manual pointing them to the applications menu instead of the program files menu and theyll have no further trouble. The pcs will be cheaper without the microsoft tax, so Dell has more profit margin on those machines.
- ipodman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders."
Michael Dell re: How to Fix Apple (1997).
http://news.com.com/Dell+Apple+should+close+shop/2100-1001_3-203937.html
My, how the times have changed. - iammatt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Yes, but not in the UK.
- alamko1999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Its just attention, now we want some actions.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3> ...can be tough to get wireless working.
I've never understood how people have problems with wireless networking in Linux.
The documentation seems pretty clear to me. - illegal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I called toshiba and asked them recently to sell me laptop without vista (i didn't even asked them about Linux to be preinstalled) Guess what their answer was? Yes. Get Vista or don't buy our products.
- alx1507, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I think its the most popular idea becuase of all the hardcord linux users trying to spread the word of linux, which there is nothing wrong with. But, do you think linux would honestly help dell? People that are suggesting linux are probably people that have no intention of buying a dell in the future, even if linux was an option, they would probably build it themselves, or buy an old computer and upgrade the hell out of it.
And as much as I like linux, i think we can all agree its not ready for mainstream. Ubuntu is close, but its still not quiet there. - tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2B.
attracting customers == better profits - iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/precn_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&adv=desktopadv
You've been able to buy Dells with linux on them for years. - ctkroeker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Well actually that's partly true, because most people that develop for windows probably haven't even thought of Linux. Although, nowadays, there are open source alternative to most windows products, except for games. But if Linux gains more ground, software developers might actually start considering making their software available to the Linux platform as well. If Dell provides Linux, maybe other companies will follow it's example. I hope.
- cooppw02, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2There are two huge issues facing any of the major manufacturers in selling preinstalled Linux for consumer-oriented computers. First, they would jeopardize their relationship with Microsoft, which sells them Windows at a huge discount. Second, they would have more difficulty in SUPPORTING the hardware they sell. Thus, Dell has 3 options if they start selling Linux:
1) Don't support it, and get more complaints.
2) Support it across all configurations, and sell it for as much (or even more) than they charge for Windows. It can be very tough to ensure that ATI and Nvidia graphics cards work with 3D acceleration, and can be tough to get wireless working. Also, remember that Dell gets Windows from Microsoft at a HUGE discount, and gets money from 3rd party software makers for all the crap trialware that comes installed on a Dell machine.
3) Support it for limited configurations. It would be a LOT easier to keep support if the computers sold with Linux only had Intel graphics, where the drivers are open-source and "Just Work."
If Dell did start selling Linux preinstalled, and could guarantee that the wireless worked out-of-the-box, then I would definitely buy from them again. I know there are other vendors that sell computers with Linux preinstalled, but they always seem to be more expensive than the Dell equivalent. - cooppw02, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Depends entirely on the card. The Linksys card I'm using actually got harder to use with subsequent Ubuntu releases: my WPC54G had worked fine via Ndiswrapper with 5.10 and earlier releases, but starting in 6.06, it misidentifies my card, and I have to blacklist the driver it's trying to use before I try setting up Ndiswrapper.
I also have a different USB wireless adapter that required compiling the driver against the kernel sources. These are the kind of issues that Dell would have a nightmare supporting. - tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@marcuschi
When I can build a laptop with Linux-compatible parts cheaply, I will. Until then, I'll hope Dell adopts this and byuy from system76 or another such store. - Grimboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@iceperson: Yeah they/we do. See: "The Linux Desktop Myth":http://www.psychocats.net/essays/linuxdesktopmyth
- Dracos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Between this and corporations taking interest in having kernel hackers write device drivers for them ( http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_kernel_driver_project_picks_up_steam_and_opposition ), 2007 might actually be the year of desktop Linux, unlike the baseless claims made evvery year for the last decade.
If Dell can manage throw off the Micosoft Yoke(TM)(R)(C), other OEM's are sure to follow. And MS is screwed. - Aelbric, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Marcuschi
Dell does sell a machine with no OS. The Dimension E521. Bought one myself (despite having hated Dell for so long) this past Christmas. It's amazing how cheap commodity hardware is when you remove the software tax from Microsoft and the "Great Deal" bundles from all the other software vendors.
I can install my own Ubuntu. For users that can't, this could be a boon only if Dell also provides support. Somehow I don't see that happening. - dirken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is what I used to call good news. Finally Linux will find it's way to the consumer market (if it hasn't already a bit). Whit this step Dell shows that Windows isn't alone on the market and that just happens now when it gets know that MS Windows Vista doesn't sell like XP used to!
If I were Microsoft I'dd say "Ouwch"
Dirken
http://www.dvwd.be - brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@eviltak
Actually, what you just described is probably the most *common* pc support issue handled every day by dell support.
However, you cant get the masses to do a root command line/vi fix, which a significant amount of Linux repairs require. - iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4"What software do you absolutely need Windows to run? Are you sure there are no equivalents for the open source world?"
Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door. Ralph Waldo Emerson
Linux people think they have built a better mousetrap but can't figure out why they can't give it away... -
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