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Dell gives desktop Linux its "full attention"

desktoplinux.com — In an attempt to boost its sagging fortunes, Dell, one of the leading PC makers in America, recently launched the Dell Idea Storm website to solicit ideas on how to get Dell back to the top. The most popular idea so far? Desktops with pre-installed Linux.

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  • ctkroeker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+34Some of the comments on those sites seem to be making fun and ridiculing the linux community, especially because this idea has the most votes and seems to be growing by hundreds of votes per minuite...
    The main thing is choice. Even if Linux is in the minority, there schould be a choice to the monopolistic windows os, even if it be no OS at all.
    • marcuschi, on 10/12/2007, -25/+3I thought the whole point of Linux was inexpensive customization. Purchasing a Dell computer with Linux installed seems somewhat odd to me., sort of contradicting itself. Wouldn't Linux users be more satisfied building their own machines or not have to deal with Dell in the first place? And wouldn't people who just want a simple, hassle free PC, want a Windows machine anyway? What happened to Dell selling their machines with no OS installed anyway?
    • UglieJosh, on 10/12/2007, -34/+5Dude, you're getting...

      A superior operating system that you are likely never to use because, to the average consumer, it is about as accessible as Mother Theresa's panties.
    • iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I bought a Dell with Red Hat linux pre-installed years ago.
    • iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -19/+3If you people really think there is a big enough market for machines preloaded with linux then why aren't you all getting rich selling them?
    • el_jefe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18@ UglieJosh

      I think you do not understand "average consumer". An average consumer wants to do what?
      To code programs, scripts, and rewrite an operating system?
      Or do they want to surf the web, send/receive email, share photos of their kids, all with as little effort as possible.

      You can do that all with Linux, for a lot less money too. Sure its not windows. And yes, as a Linux user myself, it can be hard installing apps. But if it came pre-installed, then whats the issue? The "average consumer" will call Dell support when there is a problem, just like they do with windows, and follow the steps the tech tells them. When they want to install something they will follow the directions. If you asked the average consumer which OS would you like Linux or Windows, some will say windows because they use it at work and not consider linux, some will ask, "does it matter", and some will ask "whats the difference", and some will say simply "the one that works". And when the sales rep says they both work, what will be the next question from joe blow consumer..."which one is cheaper?".

      @ iceperson

      Good question. Simply because not all of us think that way. And besides. Linux is about choice. Not about taking over the world. Most of us would simply like people to see and know there is a choice and that there are alternatives to windows...
    • rmxz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14@marcuschi

      No, customization isn't why people use Linux. Linux is popular because it's a secure and relatively trouble-free OS (more supported hardware than Vista, and no virus-update-headaches).

      Having it pre-installed will make it even more trouble-free.
    • theOster, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1funny image...
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/17605925@N00/397920739/
    • Aelbric, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Marcuschi

      Dell does sell a machine with no OS. The Dimension E521. Bought one myself (despite having hated Dell for so long) this past Christmas. It's amazing how cheap commodity hardware is when you remove the software tax from Microsoft and the "Great Deal" bundles from all the other software vendors.

      I can install my own Ubuntu. For users that can't, this could be a boon only if Dell also provides support. Somehow I don't see that happening.
    • tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@marcuschi
      When I can build a laptop with Linux-compatible parts cheaply, I will. Until then, I'll hope Dell adopts this and byuy from system76 or another such store.
    • kaesong, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I like this, a proactive approach on Dell's part. Hopefully they'll be able to farm some good use out of the discussions.

      If they're going to be serious about linux on the desktop, they need to stop and think. "What do their users ask for?"

      Dell's one of the largest computer reseller in the world. I assume they have data based their support calls, most common problems, requests, configurations, etc and use that to cultivate the ultimate desktop. Asking a linux user what they want on the desktop is not going to make them big bucks. Reviewing over their support calls and data farming will help design their best desktops.

      At the end of the day, users don't really care what kind of operating system it is, what kind of browser it is, or what kind of word processing software it is. They just want it to work and that includes interoperability with windows and it's popular applications and associated devices.
  • schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -5/+31We need to see action, not just attention. Last year, Michael Dell told SJVN that he would support Linux and that it's none of Microsoft's business. And where are we today? Still no preinstallation of Linux. And Dell machines with FreedDOS are more expensive (by design) than ones with Windows preloaded. Frankly, I am not surprised.

    Did Microsoft want to 'whack' Dell over its Linux dealings?
    http://news.com.com/Did+Microsoft+want+to+whack+Dell+over+its+Linux+dealings/2100-1014_3-6153904.html

    Dell's secret Linux fling
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/09/dell_linux_china/

    Microsoft 'killed Dell Linux' - States
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/03/19/microsoft_killed_dell_linux_states/

    Does Dell do a $1-billion kickback thing with Microsoft? A fortnight ago it got caught doing this with Intel. Someone ought to step in and eradicate all this corruption.
  • NewChar, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3This story has been on the Digg front page at least a half dozen times the last few days. Buried.
  • evilTak, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18Dell's been saying they'll sell preloaded GNU/Linux machines for years. When I see them advertised on TV commercials or the frontpage of dell.com, I'll believe it.
    • baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11or walk in to a Brick & mortar computer store such as CompUSA, OfficeDepot or Staples and see GNU/Linux boxes booted up for users to see for themselves...
    • iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/precn_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&adv=desktopadv

      Their front page doesn't advertise any operating system.
      http://www.dell.com/
    • brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3@evilTak:

      Go figure out how to teach 2500 Bangladesh support reps to help a soccer mom fix her Xserver over the phone because her son half-installed Beryl because he saw a cool video on YouTube - oh and by the way you need to teach her vi first.

      Now you can begin to understand why you dont advertise your linux systems on TV.

    • subgeniusd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4One of the big jokes at MS support is Wal-Mart etc customers with new Linux boxes calling them asking where Word is and why the menu looks so weird. Some of us have yet to recognize how clueless the market is.
    • evilTak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The same bangladeshi reps couldn't help the same soccer mom fix her pc because her son installed bonzi buddy and a ton of other spyware either. You can do stupid things on any OS - only some OSs do the stupid things for you...
    • brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@eviltak

      Actually, what you just described is probably the most *common* pc support issue handled every day by dell support.

      However, you cant get the masses to do a root command line/vi fix, which a significant amount of Linux repairs require.

  • diggsIt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Still overpriced, with no OS.
  • JimXugle, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4How about just making sure that the hardware will work under the vanilla Kernel at time of release of a new model and offer a "no OS" option?

    Kubuntu FTW.
    • tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3All I wanty is Linux-friendly hardware.
  • crpietschmann, on 10/12/2007, -20/+5Lame! The average consumer doesn't care or know what Linux is when they buy a PC. And they would be very pissed if their new Dell wouldn't run the new software and games they buy, all because they accidentally checked the box for Linux when they ordered the system.

    This person even claims that Open Source software prevents piracy. How do you figure? The only way it prevents it is you wouldn't be able to run your favorite Windows software.

    Ok, I'm not trying to bash. I do think it would be neat if they did offer Linux based PC's, but overall it wouldn't make a difference to the majority of their customers.

    By the way, I don't buy Dell desktops, I build my own PC's instead. Cheaper.
    • Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24"Lame! The average consumer doesn't care or know what Linux is....."

      That's why web browsers are equipped with scrollbars.

      It's an option. That's all. Not interested? Just scroll on by.
    • MrJinx, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Yeah, but this would not be for the average consumer.

      So I don't see it as lame, but as a choice. If you or the average consumer is happy with Windows by all means stick with it.

    • mancat, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3Dugg down for being correct. Shame.
    • Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@mancat : Don't worry....I'm not being dugg down. But thanks for your concern.
    • Megatog615, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9If Linux controlled at least 20% of the market share, I'm sure game developers would port their games to it. If Dell sold Linux desktops, it would increase the usage of Linux, thus increasing market share, thus increasing developers.
    • xutopia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"Lame! The average consumer doesn't care or know what Linux is when they buy a PC. And they would be very pissed if their new Dell wouldn't run the new software and games they buy, all because they accidentally checked the box for Linux when they ordered the system."

      Why would anyone check a box for something they have no clue what it is?

      "This person even claims that Open Source software prevents piracy. How do you figure? The only way it prevents it is you wouldn't be able to run your favorite Windows software."

      What software do you absolutely need Windows to run? Are you sure there are no equivalents for the open source world?
    • iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4"What software do you absolutely need Windows to run? Are you sure there are no equivalents for the open source world?"

      Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door. Ralph Waldo Emerson

      Linux people think they have built a better mousetrap but can't figure out why they can't give it away...
    • Grimboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@iceperson: Yeah they/we do. See: "The Linux Desktop Myth":http://www.psychocats.net/essays/linuxdesktopmyth
    • tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It is cheaper to build your own system, so I'm still looking toward building a cheap Linux-friendly laptop.
  • GeorgeStone, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2"All things have differences. People prefer some over others. This has always been true for Windows and Linux users, so of course, there has always been debating over which is best overall.

    Ladies and gentlemen, I have the answer.

    Debating about whether or not one is better than the other is like two women debating over their personal brand of dildo. Both can get the job done in their own way, but people still have their own preferences. One might like the features that it comes with, might have heard some really good things about it, or just plain use it out of tradition and never becoming accustomed to a different brand.

    Some say that theirs is sleeker, more user-friendly, or very customizable. Other will criticize them for being unable to do this or that, not good for this type of execution, or even shuts down a lot when apparently nothing wrong happened.

    Some people are big on features, like what it has built in vs. what you have to add onto it yourself. Size and convenience are also large factors of people's decisions of which to buy. Nobody wants to hassle to get their work done, but some people prefer their own way over someone else's idea.

    What it all comes down to is that eventually the women stop their bickerring about their dildo and just accept that there may be something else out there that they haven't experienced, while they still retain their loyalty to their original investment. Then they can openly look for something different and new, something exciting and out of the ordinary. If they don't like what they find, then they can go back to their life as it was. But if they find something they like, perhaps they can mix up what they use, how they use it, and what they use it for.

    In conclusion, whenever you feel a Windows vs. Linux debate coming on, just imagine two women fighting over whose dildo is better and everyone'll be a lot happier." - Wilkin

    Thats from some forum.
    This is a preemptive strike at any fanboyism that may occur.
  • wired4u, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I cringe when I think about dell support helping people with linux.
    • ElectricKetchup, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5back when I was a sysadmin at a small software company, their phone tech support helped me when my dell redhat server got a bad hard drive. He helped me get the drivers needed for the perc card in redhat. It's not as bad as you might think.
    • diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15I'm tired of hearing this kind of FUD *****. The #1 complaint about linux is the difficulty in getting the hardware to work. If Dell preinstalled Linux and sold linux-compatible hardware, THEN THERE WOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM.

      Imagine a "Linux Desktop" section of the Dell website with Linux-friendly printers, wifi pcmcia cards, ATI r200-300 graphics cards that are compatible with open source 3D drivers, etc.
  • ElectricKetchup, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6it would be nice if they supplied linux drivers for their laptops and not just their servers... I've got pretty much everything workong on my laptop except the smart card reader, and I can't get enough information from the TI specs on how to write my own driver. If they could push their vendors to write linux drivers or document their hardware enough so that others could write drivers, that would be a huge leap for linux.
  • ipodman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders."
    Michael Dell re: How to Fix Apple (1997).

    http://news.com.com/Dell+Apple+should+close+shop/2100-1001_3-203937.html

    My, how the times have changed.
  • mbabauer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'd love to buy a store-bought box with Linux pre-installed. When I was younger, I would not have EVER considered a pre-built anything, but now that I am older I have come to appreciate the ability to pick up a phone and make my problem someone else's. If Dell does go this route, they need to partner with someone for support, maybe through Red Hat or something.
  • Dracos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Between this and corporations taking interest in having kernel hackers write device drivers for them ( http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_kernel_driver_project_picks_up_steam_and_opposition ), 2007 might actually be the year of desktop Linux, unlike the baseless claims made evvery year for the last decade.

    If Dell can manage throw off the Micosoft Yoke(TM)(R)(C), other OEM's are sure to follow. And MS is screwed.
  • Leo21k, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2How would having Linux improve sells? I thought people who used Linux were in the minority.
    • Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15What do you think will attract more customers?

      A.) Windows exclusive boxes
      B.) Both Windows and Linux boxes
    • Megatog615, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Using Linux(a free O/S), it would remove the Microsoft tax(Office/Windows Vista together cost almost $200). Imagine buying one of their $299 computers at $99 because of the free O/S. I'd buy three of them on the spot.
    • wonderchemist, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1"What do you think will attract more customers?"

      Attracting more customers != better profitability.
    • tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2B.
      attracting customers == better profits
  • Lorddias, on 10/12/2007, -13/+2Only downfall with Linux.. it supports like 1/1000th of applications of what Windows supports.
    • xutopia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6In the list of applications you know.
    • el_jefe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Only downfall with Linux.. it supports like 1/1000th of *current windows* applications.

      There thats a little closer to reality. You don't get out on the web much do you? I think the Ubuntu distro comes with well over 10,000 applications, and I am willing to bet less that 1/1000th of those run on windows.

      Sure there is no linux install for MS Office, or IE, or Windows Media Player, or Quicken...and so one. But there are equivelents. Some not as good, some the same or better. But to make a blanket statement that there are more applications for windows than linux is way off base.
    • ctkroeker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Well actually that's partly true, because most people that develop for windows probably haven't even thought of Linux. Although, nowadays, there are open source alternative to most windows products, except for games. But if Linux gains more ground, software developers might actually start considering making their software available to the Linux platform as well. If Dell provides Linux, maybe other companies will follow it's example. I hope.
  • linuxhacker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If Dell would like everyone's support, which it seems they do, why not make the OS a matter of choice at the time of purchase...and leave it at that. Once and for good. I think we're all able to make our own decisions. With Linux OSes freely available online and on CD/DVD shipped free of charge it's total no-brain-er.
  • alx1507, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I think its the most popular idea becuase of all the hardcord linux users trying to spread the word of linux, which there is nothing wrong with. But, do you think linux would honestly help dell? People that are suggesting linux are probably people that have no intention of buying a dell in the future, even if linux was an option, they would probably build it themselves, or buy an old computer and upgrade the hell out of it.

    And as much as I like linux, i think we can all agree its not ready for mainstream. Ubuntu is close, but its still not quiet there.
    • edm1950, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Oh sure, if a customer is looking for a machine primarily to do things other than play games. FOSS does a pretty wide range of things these days. Not like four years ago when you could pretty much expect to see a blue screen rather than not. Remember Corel Linux.
    • tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You can't build a laptop. So, I need a prebuilt system. My last laptop was a Dell, but that was before I switched.
  • Shadowman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Quote from Michael Dell...

    "If we say we like Ubuntu, then people will say we picked the wrong one. If we say we like and support Ubuntu, Novell, Red Hat, and Xandros, then someone would ask us, 'Why don't you support Mandriva? The challenge we have with picking one is that we think we'd disenchant the other distributions' supporters."

    http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html
  • drdepoy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3better idea!

    sell your PC's with a "No Operating System" option. Knock $200 off the price and let people install thier own OS.

    Im tired of having to pay for an OS i will never use every time i buy a new computer.

    of course this would undermind the microsoftopoly.
  • alamko1999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Its just attention, now we want some actions.
  • bwesterman, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Gimme a break. I've tried linux in various flavors a few times because of it's political point... but unless you're an uber-geek or in a third world country there is no reason to use linux. It's so annoying. I've had a computer I did up just to surf the web and simple web programs like flash are too annoying to install... it's like using a Mac and trying to get Windows Media content to play correctly. It's just *****' annoying. Some of us don't have the time to deal with the *****. Windows comes on my cheapies and I just need ***** to run. I drink Coca-Cola, I watch Baseball.... we're all supporting some huge corporation. I love corporations... they allow me to even have a computer, a refrigerator, cheap clothing, etc... I'll save my time for other things. I don't have to re-invent the lightbulb to get light... why would I re-invent an operating system that works fine.
    • Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Congrats. Sounds like you're one of the people who would click the "Windows" button instead of the "Linux" button.

      We just defused that situation in 2 seconds.
    • damienp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@bwesterman

      You assume that all Linux users hate Microsoft and the people who use it. That's simply untrue.
  • kupa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Forget linux, how about offering better support? That and offering better options for when their annoying as ***** systems who novice's get attracted to for low prices get infected with spyware. I tried to save a dell from my grandparents multiple times, but because I had no access to a recovery CD (They didn't send one) nor to one of those nifty hidden partition things that HP did, I ended up having to simply build them a brand new computer.

    Dells support already sucks for Windows, what the hell are they gonna do if they put Linux on the computer and their outsourced support techs have no idea wtf the customer is asking? "Sir, what OS do you?" "Uh, I have a dell!"

    Not to mention how many of these average-joe computer users are going to understand it when their kids can't play those awesome computer games, or run those programs they picked up at Walmart, or wherever? Seems like a horrible idea to me.

    Perhaps if they created a line aimed solely at Linux enthusiasts or something? But even then, how many Linux users haven't built their own computer?
  • harvster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I think this is a bad idea. I don't have anything against linux, but this would only appeal to people who don't ever want to use windows. Anyone with that much Geek-cred is going to have no trouble installing linux themselves, and won't form a reasonable market segment.

    Also, there's the problem of which linux. If you get a linux variety you don't like preloaded, you'll need to install a different one, just like on windows, which defeats the objective.

    Also, the cost of XP which would be took off the total cost is not £80, it's about £20. Dell get massive discounts for buying in bulk.
  • Nixkitty, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1OK A) Dell Idea Storm is not new and was not "recently launched" B) Until someone pointed to this on /. Linux was #3

    Geez do you think the /. pointer had anything to do with the overnight surge? Buried as LAME
  • cooppw02, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2There are two huge issues facing any of the major manufacturers in selling preinstalled Linux for consumer-oriented computers. First, they would jeopardize their relationship with Microsoft, which sells them Windows at a huge discount. Second, they would have more difficulty in SUPPORTING the hardware they sell. Thus, Dell has 3 options if they start selling Linux:

    1) Don't support it, and get more complaints.

    2) Support it across all configurations, and sell it for as much (or even more) than they charge for Windows. It can be very tough to ensure that ATI and Nvidia graphics cards work with 3D acceleration, and can be tough to get wireless working. Also, remember that Dell gets Windows from Microsoft at a HUGE discount, and gets money from 3rd party software makers for all the crap trialware that comes installed on a Dell machine.

    3) Support it for limited configurations. It would be a LOT easier to keep support if the computers sold with Linux only had Intel graphics, where the drivers are open-source and "Just Work."

    If Dell did start selling Linux preinstalled, and could guarantee that the wireless worked out-of-the-box, then I would definitely buy from them again. I know there are other vendors that sell computers with Linux preinstalled, but they always seem to be more expensive than the Dell equivalent.
  • pixelminer, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1HEY ASSHOLES! STOP REPOSTING OLD S**T! I'm a Linux fan but this is getting ridiculous! Subscribe to the Digg RSS FEED and GET A F**KING CLUE!
  • foxmajik, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Dell gives desktop Linux its "full attention" just like most men give their wives their "full attention."
  • foxmajik, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3> ...can be tough to get wireless working.

    I've never understood how people have problems with wireless networking in Linux.

    The documentation seems pretty clear to me.
    • cooppw02, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Depends entirely on the card. The Linksys card I'm using actually got harder to use with subsequent Ubuntu releases: my WPC54G had worked fine via Ndiswrapper with 5.10 and earlier releases, but starting in 6.06, it misidentifies my card, and I have to blacklist the driver it's trying to use before I try setting up Ndiswrapper.

      I also have a different USB wireless adapter that required compiling the driver against the kernel sources. These are the kind of issues that Dell would have a nightmare supporting.
  • insomuchas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3people will have no trouble using linux if its pre installed. most people only use the browser, email and solitaire. just make a manual pointing them to the applications menu instead of the program files menu and theyll have no further trouble. The pcs will be cheaper without the microsoft tax, so Dell has more profit margin on those machines.
  • KnifeFed, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Why on earth would a Linux-user buy a Dell?
    • lowerlogic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I would buy my next laptop from Dell if they preinstalled Linux.
    • KnifeFed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My point is simply that Dell sucks. Linux-users generally don't. It just doesn't add up.
  • illegal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I called toshiba and asked them recently to sell me laptop without vista (i didn't even asked them about Linux to be preinstalled) Guess what their answer was? Yes. Get Vista or don't buy our products.
  • PaulSu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Compare Dell laptop and other brand then you see the different. Dell don't cater to the cosumer but to the corporate. Selling computer without an OS is a good start but they need to made their product more eye catching and sexy. PS get rid of the ugly Dell logo.
  • dirken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is what I used to call good news. Finally Linux will find it's way to the consumer market (if it hasn't already a bit). Whit this step Dell shows that Windows isn't alone on the market and that just happens now when it gets know that MS Windows Vista doesn't sell like XP used to!
    If I were Microsoft I'dd say "Ouwch"

    Dirken
    http://www.dvwd.be
  • marthabrow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Quite doubtful. Are you people blind to vote for THIS?
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