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- underdog5004, on 10/12/2007, -8/+51Of course it can. Dell just needs to stop whoring themselves to Microsoft.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+30 Yup. You hit the nail right on the head.
The problem as I see it is that Microsoft walks softly but carries a very big stick. - CraigB12, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Would you say no to probably billions of dollars?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I disagree. Dell should:
A) Pick the "best of Linux breed" apps (Compiz/Beryl, KDE/Gnome, OpenOffice, K3B, Gaim)
B) Pick a best of breed desktop distribution (OpenSuse? Ubuntu?) and see the afore mentioned apps are included.
C) Pour funding into developing the best of Linux Breed into Best of Computing.
D) See items from (A) are included as default in (B) (not by force by
Install and Support the whole package in conjunction w/ the Distribution partner they pick.
E) Profit! - Elranzer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I don't know. Imagine if this actually takes off...
- Instead of distros like Ubuntu, RedHat, etc, you get Dell Linux, HP Linux, Gateway Linux, etc...
- Instead of apt or rpm, you have Dell Preferred Customer Installer (TM), Gateway Apps, HP AppZone, etc...
- HP Printer drivers only working with HP Linux, Dell Axim only working with Dell Linux, etc...
- Similar to RedHat Enterprise and Linspire (pay versions), you have Dell Linux COA, serials, validations...
- Wireless cards only working with Dell Wireless Utility
I mean, it might work and it might be beautiful. On the other hand, corporate desktop vendor Linux might be seriously screwed up. - Scyth3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I think we can all agree, that if Dell were to put out Linux compatible versions of their device drivers -- that they would simply get more Linux customers. I myself would buy a new laptop from them if I know off-the-bat that I have Linux compatible drivers, instead of using stupid wrappers to get stuff done.
- Archer1980, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12What would be the point? So a linux user can buy a Linux installed PC and then uninstall the distro provided and re-install the distro they actually want?
I bet the majority of there phone calls are Hardware related. If they pre-install Linux one computers and they get into the hands of people who don't have a clue, they will have to spend millions in call support for these users.
Offer systems with no OS, let me decide what distro i want. - waysa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Dell Linux support will consist of some outsourced Indian guy screaming RTFM n00b! into the phone and then hanging up on you.
- pinoyboy82, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Dell needs to pick a few distributions and offer the right support, which I imagine could be a pain depending on how they implement the distribution. I imagine they will package some Dell bloatware support... I personally think _if_ Dell can pull off Linux support well, then they can go full blitz with marketing a viable shiny FREE alternative to paying for Windows, and people always love to see the word FREE! The only way I see that is with built in support and possible Dell bloatware... Installing/uninstalling new programs could prove too painful for a lot of users, so repositories would NEED to be obvious to users. I believe the average user wants to be told what to do and will wither down from the freedom of Linux.
- rmxz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@Archer1980: regarding re-installing..
Long ago I enjoyed trying every distro out there to see which one's defaults I liked better before tweaking my own defaults. Now I pretty much stopped caring about a distro - once all the devices work and the main apps are installed it really doesn't matter which distro it was to me. If the OEM goes through the "get all the devices to work" I'd be happy with just about any distro, and I'll thankfully not deal with installers at all.
The other thing I want the OEM to do is deal with the DVD-consortium, MPEG-LA, etc Licensing so I can play DVDs legally. I'd happily pay those license fees if there were an easy way to do so - and with Linux there's currently no easy way. - pinoyboy82, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I put Edgy Eft on my E1505 and am very happy with it! I dual boot with XP MCE, but only use it on rare occasions. I do use my desktop with XP everyday as well, but that's because of my WoW addiction. I usually have WoW going on my desktop while I'm on gaim/internet/e-mail/tinkering on my laptop. It makes for a nice combination I think!
- jetsetgo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Personally, anything that takes market share away from Microsoft gets approval from me. I've spent far to much of my life dealing with their products.
However, this doesn't mean I'm about to go out and buy a dell. They would need to improve their hardware record for me first. (or put a countdown timer on the machine to tell you when the warranty is up and the machine is liable to light itself on fire).
My equation = I'd consider buying one for a friend, but it's more likely I'd by two for an enemy. - DyDx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@monolith: You're wrong because if Dell were to put a Linux distro on a computer they sold, they'd heavily customize it for the hardware to make sure it works as well as possible. Many (if not all) of the problems that people have installing Linux on their own would be eliminated by the fact that the hardware and OS are planned to work well together.
- ahhell, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5From a company persective, how is Dell going to provide support for Linux? Their Windows support sucks...I can't even imagine what their Linux support would be like.
- modestmelody, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Linux won't work with Dell's business model, period.
- astrotrain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yes, attempting to install even Red Hat Dell makes you jump through hoops. You can't use Red Hats installer, you MUST use Dell's OEM installer which copies all five cds to your system first, then begins the install.
And don't bother trying to deslect things because Dell's OEM will not let you, it installs ... everything.....
If Dell is going to attempt to make it in the Linux market, they need to allow Linux users to control hoe Linux
is installed on Dell equipment...period. - Pensador, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I would purchase a Linux laptop. Would you?
- angelo1x1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I´ll be the first one to buy a DELL with preinstalled LINUX !!! Of course it will work!
- pinoyboy82, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I also think the best of breed in software should be included. I wasn't thinking of Dell simply pulling a distribution off the shelf and putting into production. Dell would pick the parts that are best of breed (at least to them) and include them, but would essentially be making a Dell distribution, which would be a mixture of OpenSuse, Ubuntu, etc. So basically, do they:
1. Make a Dell distribution
or
2. Support chosen existing distributions with their hardware setups
Seeing as they would most likely want some support mechanism, choice 1 would seem likely. Either way, it would have to be available to the public and we win! Hopefully they're ready to train their technical support! - macewan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I've been running Ubuntu on my Dell at work for over 2 years. What the hell are they waiting for?
- tarmithius, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It isn't just MS they whore themselves to. It is all the other software vendors that pay to have their stuff pre-installed when you purchase a PC, i.e. AOL, Norton, and a few others. Why do you think PCs are extremely cheap these days. The article even mentions that.
- whatsgoodike, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I think it'll work fine as long as the make sure the average to below-average user understands exactly what they're 'getting themselves into' with Linux. The use of the OS is quite different than what they're used to, i see some pissed off house wives in the future.
My next laptop? Dell with Linux. - mabhatter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ jimXugle
the beauty of it is that Dell could include both the install and recovery LiveDVDs in the package. They could put the DVD CSS and other pay for Codex on the DVD and key that part of the disk for only Dell's bios to open... perfectly legal by the GPL and it should be enough to make the patent critters happy as it's licensed to the machine. Then if you decided to install a different distro, you could unpack the files again to your new OS... another win-win situation. - Krakn3Dfx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If Dell really pushes Linux workstations for business and personal use, I would be pretty impressed. My employer already has an interest in switching over our office to a Linux based environment, if I can show him a major PC vendor that we can buy PCs pre-built with Linux on, it will only strengthen the argument.
- Langford, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If dell or any other PC maker really wants to be successful when supplying Linux, they need to throw the same kind of support at it that Apple offers for the Mac. They will need to have a full range of branded devices that are certified as being ready to go, and will need to be able to give tech support for it without having to reference other operating systems in the process. No company can succeed if they do it half ass, they will have to commit themselves.
- mabhatter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2For real fun for Microsoft to stop the whole "bare" system piracy argument, put Linux Bios on the Linux boxes!!! Better yet, update it for EFI or Open Firmware and mess with the shadow monopoly!!! Then Windows wouldn't run on the Linux boxes..they could sell the OEM key + bios if you wanted Windows. I've got no love for pirates.. they take away from the pool of people that could be supporting OSS and need free, open software to pull themselves up. sad to say, but hey, somebody has to be the first pushed into the pool!
Frankly, I'm surprised Gateway isn't trying out Linux... They're hard up for market share anyway they can get and just enough renegade to push it. Of course that means M$ could hurt them more than Dell for breaking ranks... - xelnaga666, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"i reckon dell should buy system76 like they bought alienware, that would be great, then i could finally buy a dell/system76 machine in europe"
Im so ready for that idea....... I was destroyed after hearing about them on Linux Action Show, then going to the System76 shipping faqs to find out only that they ship exclusivly to the US. I want laptops like that in the UK. - gharding, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3@strabes:
Next to nothing? Are you people really all that retarded that you think that because Linux is free, it means all other costs associated with it is free? If Dell were to offer a different OS, they'd most likely have to take on even more support staff. That costs them money. It would cost them at least as much money to install Linux as Windows, and CERTAINLY would not save Dell any money in the long run (it would probably cost more.. ever had to pay a Linux desktop tech?) Dell isn't paying Microsoft for Windows.. Their clients are.
I'm all for Linux, but come on. Dell isn't in the niche market of Linux desktops and it wouldn't be a worthwhile venture UNLESS there was a BIG corporate demand for Linux desktops (which, last time I checked, there wasn't) since the average Dell customer isn't going to want Linux. So maybe a few people here and there will buy Linux PCs. The VERY VAST MAJORITY will not. Waste of resources for Dell.
Try looking at it from a business perspective, not an I-love-Linux perspective. - Gavagai80, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@scornforsega: I've never built a computer. Not every software geek is a hardware geek (and not every linux user is a software geek, though it's fair to say I am).
@shinynew: Sorry to break it to you, but difficulties with initial setup are exactly why people need OEMs. No messing about with xorg is needed if you're buying your computer/monitor bundle from Dell, such that they're testing it.
As for compiling from source, I haven't compiled anything from source in many years. Package management makes installs/uninstalls/updates much easier than they are on Windows. That you have an option to get some newer/shinier/more-obscure things by compiling from source if you want to doesn't compel you to do so... complaining about having a choice is silly. - kaervas59, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Wait a second.
The hardware software check of Dell isn't a part of Windows. It's on another bootable partition. So we have tools with Dell if it's hardware problem. And this tools are OS independant. I don't remember if is dell or another company but I remember I see "Gentoo" during the boot up of one of these partition. It could be very nice if Dell can make something who work. - kierskoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I must getting confused with a different Dell..... im thinking of the Dell who has no respect for its customers (unless they are business users who pay ***** of support money), im thinking of the Dell who put the cheapest and worst possible components into PC's and market their PC's with the known buzz words with the intention of selling them to non tech-savvy consumers.....like high speed processing and massive storage space, but no mention of crappy mainboard or lack of expansion slots or cheapest possible RAM, ***** PSU possible....
Dell suck... the only possible reason they would offer Linux would be too mooch off the hard working *nix developers, who provide great OS's for nothing, in order to gain market share by selling crappy PC's at a lower cost. - strabes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@scornforsega: I buy dells for the unlimited warranty they offer. I've had the LCD, motherboard, and internal speakers all replaced on this laptop for free. I don't even have to send it in - a guy comes to my dorm and replaces them. I know dell offers OS-less computers & laptops and one of those will be my next purchase. It would be great if dell would start offering linux. It would cost them next to nothing, and perhaps they would get some extra business from people that know nothing about computers that want to save the $100 that they would otherwise spend on the copy of windows that comes with most pre-made computers.
- astrotrain, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Amen brother.... I was routed to at least five Dell people to get assistance on a server, the fifth Dell person I spoke too didn't know a bit of IT lingo... and acted like I didn't speak engwish....
This animator just sums up Dell Support ("Smell Support) perfectly!
http://www.illwillpress.com/tech3.html - MrUnderbridge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I haven't actually bought a new box in years - other than building your own, who do you buy a desktop from for under, say, $800?
- aidanr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i reckon dell should buy system76 like they bought alienware, that would be great, then i could finally buy a dell/system76 machine in europe
- kavaliro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That piece is certainly in the right column: Opinion.
Taking the short view, Linux may look like a less than savory option. Taking an even slightly longer view, it's Offering Linux is the only option. Dell really doesn't have a choice on _whether_ to support Linux. They only have a choice of _when_. And if they don't respond that they will offer a desktop Linux solution, then that leaves the door wide open for HP to take advantage of their stumble and announce that they are going to do it. I hate HP, but if they offered the only Linux Desktop solution, you may guarantee that they'd sell me my next laptop. - jimmarch1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I would argue they'll have to pick just ONE distro for desktop/user use. I don't think they need to do a server-centric setup because anybody needing such can roll their own.
All they might want to do server-side is make sure there's support for the included parts in kernel "x" or above, and say so.
For a desktop distro, they'll have to provide support, either themselves or through somebody like Canonical/Ubuntu. Supporting multiple distros will be impossible, at least at first. - e808, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Where do smart and young people buy their pc's? I'm not old, so I must be an idiot since I bought a E1505 laptop and installed Linux on it.
- mabhatter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1it's not a $400 license.. that's a marketing myth by Microsoft jacking up the price of retail... Dell pays about 60$ tops.. I've heard as low as 30$. more than that, the OS is sold to DELL for their machines, not to YOU... so the actual value of the Windows license on a Dell is close to ZERO without being on the Dell box, that's why MS lets them go so cheap!
This is how Microsoft keeps the OEMS in line and how the OEMS get some benefit from the monopoly situation. Microsoft beats up OEMS to sell only windows... partly thru being a bully and partly thru the carrot of low OEM costs. The Boxed versions have extremely high prices for two reasons... first it encourages people to think of Windows as an expensive part of a PC, so they are nudged into the arms of the OEMS that get a great deal. Second it's the stick to the carrot of low OEM prices.... "look how much you should be paying" to any wayward OEM that ventures from the fold. Microsoft doesn't want to sell to YOU (and support YOU and patch YOU and be responsible for YOUR data) they want to sell to a big company and cash the big check and make THEM support YOU, etc. Separately sold Windows also makes the OS look "optional" when Microsoft wants it compulsory... I'm waiting for the super cheap "home basic" to be required with all motherboards... to make the monopoly complete in the name of piracy. - demonsofgoetia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@JohnHyperion:
"Then shoving Linux on gradma might make sense."
""Grandma" does not exist, so stop pulling her out. Let's analyse what kind of person Grandma would have to be to fit the description: She is concerned about the performance loss between the nv and nvidia drivers, but unable to follow the three steps documented under "documentation" on Ubuntus webpage to get the nvidia driver. Also, she is completely able to download and install an updated executable from the correct website when she is in Windows. That kind of person does not exist." - by slashdot user say at http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=187412&cid=15462368
^ read the whole comment at link I provided, it's worth it - Altotus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1They don't. They will do what they do with the Linux systems they already ship: the sell you support through the distribution vendor. In this case, Dell ships RedHat Linux, so you go to RedHat for support with the OS, and Dell for support of the hardware.
- shinynew, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Sorry to break it to y'all but lunix is still not ready for the general public. Unless the people never want to install anything but the things on the package manager and a back up xorg.config would be nice. Once someone sees the Xorg error screen every time they start up they will probably give up. Also no one will be able to install from source if there is ever any error.
- mabhatter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Actually, it just dawned on me they should use a common distro with a live CD... a distro like Ubuntu with the LTS (long term service) would be nice.. they could install the base version and put the repos already downloaded ot the hard drive to save dial up users more time. For the fans and troublshooting they could make a Live CD of the same distro and include all the drivers and diagnostic tools! Then we'd have drivers available out of the box for other distros, as well as Dell would have a base tool for support to use. If you call for hardware support, pop the Live CD in and reboot into a clean system capable of going online for live help and remote tech fixing your machine, fixing the hard drive, cleaning viruses, etc. It would be even better than windows (for Dell) at that point as they won't have to pay expensive licensing for the crumby DOS tools they ship now.
- cquinnd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The only possible way I see this working..."
There is another way, offer Linspire (or a similar commercially oriented distro), rolling the cost of the distro into the price of the machine, and sending a percentage of that cost back to Linspire to cover OS support. - lilrabbit129, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"- Instead of distros like Ubuntu, RedHat, etc, you get Dell Linux, HP Linux, Gateway Linux, etc...
- Instead of apt or rpm, you have Dell Preferred Customer Installer (TM), Gateway Apps, HP AppZone, etc...
- HP Printer drivers only working with HP Linux, Dell Axim only working with Dell Linux, etc...
- Similar to RedHat Enterprise and Linspire (pay versions), you have Dell Linux COA, serials, validations...
- Wireless cards only working with Dell Wireless Utility"
As opposed as this is to the grand vision of linux and FOSS, this might be the best way for linux to really take off with a hardware manufacturer. By doing something like this they can customize their distro to the point where they know everything will just work. Not only that, they would have control over updates, making sure that everything kept working.
Honestly, if this were to happen, I would switch my parents to linux in a second. - Chandon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1So... what is it about Linux that makes it "just work" less than Vista does? At least with Linux, there are stable 64 bit Nvidia drivers...
I'd even go so far as to bet that Linux has better overall hardware support than Vista does right now, simply because a number of manufacturers aren't developing Vista (especially 64 bit Vista) drivers for their older hardware. That same hardware - which might
have taken the Linux guys 6 months to develop drivers for when it first came out - still works great in Linux, even 64 bit Linux. - prisoner24601, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Chandon
...try to get Verizon DSL. Verizon provides no support whatsoever for setting up a new DSL account without access to a Windows PC / Mac.
While you are right (there would be some calls to Dell about this) the sad part is how few people understand that a PC should NEVER run ANY software from your ISP anyway. It's just pathetic how Verizon/SBC/The Usual Suspects always schlep some CD in the box your modem comes with just so they can get an icon our your desktop and pretend they are adding some value beyond the broadband connection itself.
Dell's standard answer to those questions should be: If your ISP is asking you if you are using Windows or Mac, your response shouldn't be "neither, I'm on Linux" but "what does that have to do with the price of tea in China pal? You are just supposed to give me a working modem/router/dhcp server and WHATEVER device I connect to it should be handed an IP and KEEP YOUR CRUMMY SOFTWARE OFF MY PC thank you very much!"
I've lost count of how many times someone has asked me to help them pull their junkware "Verizon Central" blah blah blah app off the machine so they can get it working with their Adelphia cable service since they just fired the "broadband of the month" provider and got a cheaper one. People should NEVER let their ISP get their fingers into their system anyway. It's just their way of locking you in, and Dell really doesn't need to cater to the boradband providers. They should just use every incoming phone call to explain that the software the ISP want's them to use is garbage anyway. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1 Trolling ect aside linux is no longer a niche market in the server market and it is the number one OS and recently has supassed windows CE in the embedded market.
Also any linux distro dell would package would be matched with the hardware and include all common video and audio codecs web plugins etc they might even include some commercial software that allows one to run windows apps vs just wine such as cross office or cedega which are cheaper then a windows license.
Side effects would be more money and effort going to driver development under linux and introducing more users to the concept there are alternatives to microsoft. - demonsofgoetia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"the OEMs have established a distribution channel that initially defines and then attempts to control what software the majority of consumers run on their computers. For us to correct this problem, we need to stop wondering about Microsoft's backroom deals and such and start focusing on the OEMs themselves. We need to show the FTC and other parties of interest that the average consumer is not presented with a choice when purchasing a personal computer. We need to stop settling for the occasional bone thrown at us when an HP or Dell preinstalls GNU/Linux on a fraction of its products and then buries the option 50 links deep on the product's site. This is not the "choice" I am speaking of and that I envision in order to establish a level playing field." - http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8813
- Chandon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Dell already sells Linux servers. Both RHEL and SLES are fully supported on Dell servers, because Linux is 100% mainstream in the server market. The desktop market is a bit more interesting, but Dell has already shown that they can handle selling Linux.
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