What is Digg?199 Comments
- schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -10/+64Let's wait until the prices and availability (US only?) are known. It could always be less than meets the eye, but at least we can now buy our parents/kids a computer that works perferctly out of the box. More importantly, check out the following:
,----[ Quote ]
| Dell recognizes the importance of open source, GPL-licensed drivers
| which are maintained upstream in kernel.org. They allow users the
| widest choice of Linux distributions, effectively taking the
| specific hardware and distribution out of the decision-making
| process and let you focus on solving your business problems. We
| will work with our hardware partners to develop, test, and
| maintain Free drivers, and continue to make progress towards
| that goal for all drivers.
`----
http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/03/28/9655.aspx - Dumbledorito, on 10/12/2007, -3/+53@mmilian: Couple that with Dell's penchant for loading their comps up with crapware, and I predict that most Linux users would wipe the drive and start over anyway, just like a lot of Windows users do with Dell machines.
It's been my experience that one does not buy Dell computers for the OS. One tries to get a decent deal on the hardware. Their Outlet store sells some machines below cost of components, and a lot of the higher-end ones lack the expandability problems in the lesser models. - falloutsyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -2/+44@mmilian, Linux is solid right after install, you can gain performance benefits ect with tweaking. It's like any other OS, the more you know the better off your experience will be.
- Aggort, on 10/12/2007, -9/+51@mmilian I suggest you get Ubuntu or even Knoppix live CD and try it out. As for "does Linux work well", the answer is a loud resounding yes. hardly ever do drivers need isntalled or any settings need fixed. Installing program is simple and you should always use Automatix 2 for quick easy access to popular apps as well as pretty graphics and everything you need for offices and multimedia! Linux is simply amazing and you should always try something once!
- RetroRufio, on 10/12/2007, -5/+36We hack windows because it's EASY
- dudemanbro, on 10/12/2007, -4/+31Does your name mean rim job?
- Elranzer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+28"We're Going Linux, and It's All Because of YOU"
Thank you, TIME magazine's person of the year. - chkmate21, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26The full story title says:
"Dell: We're Going Linux, and It's All Because of YOU Nerdy, Windows haters. We will soon start making toasters instead of computers, how will YOU persuade us to put linux on that huh linuxboy??!!" - drmangrum, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22They can just image it. Not like they need a product registration key.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20Thank you mr. internet for your expert opinion.
- rmxz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19Believe it when you see it.
Remember that Dell announced and delivered Desktop Linux before (in 2002) - and Microsoft quickly killed it (headlines read "Microsoft killed Dell LInux").
http://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+killed+dell+linux http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/03/19/microsoft_killed_dell_linux_states/
Until these systems actually ship - and as history shows, even after these systems ship - it still may be part of a price negotiation with Microsoft over Vista.
There's plenty of reason to believe that Vista needs Dell more than Dell needs Vista (many Dell customers including the FAA are even requesting XP or Linux over Vista) - and Dell's probably the biggest Vista reseller in the world. I can bet that the Dell/Microsoft conversations are based mostly on how much should Microsoft pay Dell to put the reduced-functionality-Vista-Basic on computers with the hope that Microsoft makes money on upgrades (like most of the pre-installed software on Dells). If that number becomes large enough, you can bet that Dell will listen to the dollars and Vista Basic Dell computers will be far cheaper than Linux ones, and Dell will continue to promote them heavily over Linux ones because (just like back in 2002 when Dell played with Linux desktops before) the Microsoft payments (hidden as co-marketing dollars) will again be an important profit center for Dell. - shinda, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16I guess that all depends on what distro they install on the boxes. Also for less then tech savy users, I'm sure it'll take them a while to figure out that they're not using vista and continue to curse at microsoft for all their problems.
- drmangrum, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20Being rather conspiracy theory minded, I can't help but think this is a microsoft ploy to get linux to less than savvy users so they get frustrated and go buy a copy of vista.
- theneal, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17catfud's grammar is impeccable!
He's the one I trust to advise me on my computing needs! - straxus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Yet you cared enough to post a comment.
- kahrn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Ballmer is gonna be throwing chairs all over the place when he finds out about this.
- diegoferreyra, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15This will change the popular opinion that Linux can be a pain in the ass. They are pre-installing Linux, which means they have tested that your hardware is supported, which is one of the complains I've heard the most.
Now, on the $$$, I don't know how much will they lower the costs. While user might be saving money, it might be a little more expensive to hire employees with Linux knowledge to set up the PCs and laptops. They might throw something like that at it, so they don't have to lower prices that much. - rmxz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15@Dumbledorito
No Windows doesn't handled DVDs out of the box.
Windows media player needs codecs that you can buy from Cyberlink or Intervideo (now Sonic) or nvidia.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/plugins.aspx#DVDDecoder
The PC OEMs usually bundle one of these for you and handle the licensing fees for MPEG-LA, the DVD Consortium, Dolby, DTS, etc.
Linux technologically can play DVDs out of the box - but without having covered the licensing fees.
When IBM sold Linux laptops they worked with InterVideo (the makers of WinDVD) to bundle LinDVD covering them regarding the licenses. It'll be interesting to see how Dell handles this one. - chkmate21, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19Update: The REAL title says:::
"Dell: We're Going Linux, and It's All Because of YOU waking up to the fact that Windows sucks"
-Micahel Dell, while weeping in front of his vista laptop - lithuin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13@rmjb
You may be right, but you'd better put a very heavy emphasis on slowly.
I remember when Linux was supposed to displace Windows 95 twelve years ago.
It's made great progress, but Microsoft has plenty of time and money to adapt to changing markets. - dracflamloc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12You were playing with alpha-quality software (Hell you could even call ATI's drivers alpha-quality). If you had stuck with mature software and not an *experimental* GUI you probably would have been fine. My girlfriend absolutely adores KDE.
- jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10yaaaaaaaaay... this is just the beginning. well done Dell! :D My next laptop is a Dell (never bought Dell before). promise! :D
- wolferz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11@mmilian
Most distros will work right out of the box, and if the systems are pre-loaded with linux its even less likely you would need to change anything.
That said buying a linux computer for non-tech savvy people isn't the best idea. There are things that can not be done in Linux without a decent amount of computer skills and knowledge. If your just browsing the web and checking your email, you likely wont have a problem. The day you go to install a Wi-Fi card, be ready for a hell of a learning curve. And strike taking it to a "professional" and having them install the card for you off the list of options. Most computer "professionals" wouldn't be able to install Linux, much less install a Wi-Fi card under Linux. Even the computer techs that actually know what they are doing tend to have little experience with Linux.
I spent a week teaching my mother how to use a mouse semi-efficiently. My dad has trouble sending an email. Having worked in the retail portion of the computer industry for years now I'd have to say this is the rule, not the exception. There is no way I would give my parents a Linux machine and no way I would suggest my customers buy one (with a few exceptions). I value having occasional free time too much.
@catfud
ATI cards ARE a major hassle under linux. That is not really Linux, or the linux communities fault. nVidia managed to make working Linux drivers so there is no real reason to think ATI can't. That said, they haven't. The ATI drivers are buggy, unstable, and almost impossible to get working. I've gotten them working twice, each time I update my kernel or xorg it breaks again, requiring a different version of the drivers with a different set of patches/kernel settings/xorg settings to make them work again. Even with the ATI driver performance is sub par. Its a good bit better than using any of the open source drivers, but no where near what you can get with an nVidia card.
Then again, like you said, games rarely support linux and when they do its often half-assed. So 3d support is some what moot unless you need it for something other than games.
@mikefitz2
not true. There is wifi support under linux. But you have to have specific cards with specific chips on them, many of which are discontinued. That or you can go through the hell of trying to get the windows drivers to work under linux and it still may or may not work and if it does it wont be reliable and/or performance will suck. - nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@hackthegov (#5916525)
A good Windows admin can lock down their box pretty damn well. Linux servers are attacked constantly, mostly by script kiddies just like Windows. If the masses start running Linux (they're not yet, don't hold your breath) and do things like running as root, turning off iptables and auto updates then who knows maybe the script kiddies will "hack" some Linux boxes like they do Windows.
It's not that hard to run a fairly secure Linux server. I'm not talking PAX, SE-Linux, grsec or anything like that even. I run a Gentoo server, keep it up to date, and lock it down with iptables and denyhosts and that sort of thing and it hasn't been broken into yet (knock on wood). I'm not saying it's impenetrable, but it gets the job done without being compromised by the average cracker.
% wc -l /etc/hosts.deny
283 lines
People are already trying to hack Linux servers. Windows owns the desktop but once you move into the server area *nix is still king. There are computers worth breaking into besides desktops! - Kdurrty, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10It would be cool if wireless was already configured.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11fyi, dell makes HARDWARE, linux is SOFTWARE
- writeman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Anyone who thinks there's more of a learning curve with Linux than there is with Windows or OSX, clearly has never used Ubuntu.
- DigitalJester, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8yum -y remove dell-preinstall-crap
All done :> No reinstalling for me.
Beside's, what crap is there? AOL isn't going to do a Linux Version. They're too lazy to do anything but reskin the last version. - Cl1mh4224rd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8> ". . .but seriously props to them for actually listening to their customers and giving them what they want."
I have serious doubts that the majority of people who participated in the survey were Dell customers. It's more likely that they were people who *would be* Dell customers *if* they started selling Linux systems.
So... change "listening to their customers" to "listening to their potential customers". - CounterConToo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8It would seem a positive move for LINUX users and potential LINUX users like myself who got in to this cyber world through a Dell box loaded with Windows.
- TheProtested, on 10/12/2007, -12/+20@ ostracize
Linux has credibility? - rmxz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9@mmilian
The best analogy is that it works about the same (well, a bit easier) as installing Windows from scratch.
In both cases, all the common hardware will work fine; but some obscure hardware (accelerated 3D for Linux / SATA for Windows) will need you to chase down drivers. If you're comfortable installing Windows out of the box, you'll have no problem installing Linux out of the box.
The OEM usually tracks down these drivers and other missing components (DVD playback's nonexistant in Windows out of the box) - which makes windows easier for some people today - but we hope/assume that Dell'll do similar for Linux. - troymcdavis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Guaranteed compatibility with your hardware. Simple as that.
- thecheatah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7If all of their hardware is compatible with linux, I would definitely start buying their boxes/laptops.
No reason not to if linux will work 100% with their hardware :-) - Tweakedenigma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@kerplunk Would you like to defend that? With I don't know maybe some facts? I mean there are more of us Linux users then Mac users. I can't speak for all of us but I would like to have a system either pre-installed or one that I dont have to worry if all my hardware will work. I gotta buy the computer somewhere and Dell is no worse then anyother PC maker.
- drmangrum, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Well the beauty of linux is it's very easy to remove a program. No uninstall with a survey attached, just delete the folder.
- brasso, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Hope they dont mess it up with lots of preinstalled crapware like they do with Windows.
- cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8You guys seem to think Dell's computer assebly is just thousands of geek monkeys sitting around installing images... Want to make a change to a new OS? Just hire some linux friendly geek monkeys, that is all it takes. Not quite Dorothy.
Dell must pre qualify all drivers and hardware, they must now set up a dept to do this. They must install and test new, non Windows images, they must set up a dept to do this. They must test newly installed linux images, and burn the PCs in. This will require new non windows software, and a new department to take care of this. Each new department must be spec'd for office space, factory space, HR time, deciding on what qualifications each new FTE needs, deciding how these newly derived departments will communicate with each other, say nothing for customer support. There is another huge cost center. Dell is going to hire new staff, come up with an entirely new FTE position, test these folks, develop new knowledge bases, test them. Mind you, I'm just barely covering the surface here. The cost to implement a new OS (new, as in not Windows) is and will be HUGE.
Ya, and all it takes is a new image. Meh! - ts8lemonade, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9It's pretty obvious that you either:
1) Have never used Linux (most likely)
2) Work for Microsoft
@lasereth
If people would give Linux a chance and not try to do things the Windows way they would quickly learn that Linux can be far easier to use. For example, when I want to update every piece of software on my system I only have to click a button and it automatically gets all the latest packages and dependencies and installs them for me. - Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@mikefitz2 (#5916576)
I'm going to block you, not because your posts are particularly offensive, but because they're utterly useless. - cesclaveria, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10@Dumbledorito
No, it does not. It still needs codecs, and you usually get those out of another applications. - fkr3, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Linux can still be a pain in the ass if someone else installs it. There's still day-to-day usage. Wait till someone wants to install software they use at work. After hours on forums they'll be told to "use [alternative] which is similar but different and you don't need those other features anyway".
- wheezy360, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Fairly easily:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=25321 - cowabuse, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8What are you talking about? Hire employees to install the OS? Installation is a simple process if it's repetitive the same way and most factory default setups are the same. How would that raise the prices?
- DigitalJester, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6it is and will be...
- ts8lemonade, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@ theprotested
It would be good if wireless was configured because that is one of the hardest things for someone new to Linux to do. I myself had to set up ndiswrapper for my laptop and it wasn't too bad but still a pain and any regular joe schmoe would end up calling tech support with a massive headache. - pairanoyd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8A few years ago my friend bought a PC from Fry's that was touted as a "Linux PC". It was a bargain basement box with the bare minimum hardware needed to power up and give you a display. Fry's installed some really ***** Chinese distro called Thiz Linux.
He took it home and messed around with it for a few days before calling me for help, it was his very first computer, he had zero computer experience so he had no clue on earth what he was doing.
Man, that Thiz Linux was *****.. First thing I did when I saw it was pop a Suse (9.1) disc in the drive and press the reset button.
I didn't waste the time or effort to try to tweak it up, it took me under 30 seconds to declare it to be a steamy piece of *****.
I just wiped the drive clean and started him off on the right foot. I took the Thiz disc and Thized it across the room into the trash can.
What will Dell install? I suspect it will be a bastardized copy of Micro-Suse full of Dell logos and some sort of phone-home spyware.
Why not just sell a naked PC and let the owners decide what they want to install.
The operating system has not one damn thing to do with hardware warranties. - grubesteak, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@flag564, I've never used the terminal to install Ubuntu. What version are you using?
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