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Compiz will be installed by default in Ubuntu Feisty Fawn

ubuntuforums.org — Updates today have made compiz a dependency of ubuntu-desktop, which means it will be installed by default with Ubuntu feisty fawn. Although this doesn't mean it will be enabled by default it's certainly unfortunate for the beryl project who's primary goal for their next release was to be included in Ubuntu.

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  • schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -7/+22But Beryl and Compiz could coverge. http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/compiz/2007-February/001413.html
    • junkalam, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22From the looks of it, the opposite might happen. Apparently there's a level of animosity between the Beryl and Compiz teams.

      David Reveman of Compiz on Beryl:
      "I know that some people are concerned by this and the fact that they are forking everything we do without giving anything back but there's nothing to worry about, people will sooner or later understand where the real work is being done."

      I sure do understand the frustration he and his team might be feeling, but you have to give the Beryl folks credit for developing a cool fork. One of the main reasons that made me want to try linux for the first time over a year ago, was the cool beryl effects.

      Thanks for the link schestowitz..
    • mrfx2, on 10/12/2007, -14/+4Sounds to me with the link about he needs to pull his head out!
    • jsully, on 10/12/2007, -5/+66I'm glad to see Compiz starting to get the credit it deserves. It really seems like the Compiz developers are more interested in building a stable foundation to work from. The fact that Beryl forked and chose a license purposely so that Compiz could not take code back (mind you Beryl can still take code from Compiz) really upset me. Couple that with the fact that *every* single Beryl update in the last 3 months has seriously broken things and it's easy to see why my support now lies with Compiz. I would like to point out that I'm very thankful for all of the work the Beryl team has done.
    • Mejogid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+31I find the key problem with Beryl is that it's actually developing to fast. The patches are generally of a lower quality and when they encounter an infrastructure they hack around it instead of committing patches up stream to fix the core of the issue. This means that it may become less maintainable in the long run unless they really work to clean it up, and that there are some really odd bugs involved (I had one where an xorg setting caused the title bar to flicker between previously display titles and the current one).

      That said, there's certainly more innovation going on in the Beryl project and users looking for a more customisable and fun window manager will do well worth it. Regardless, compiz is meant more as a replacement for metacity (the compositng patch set for metacity was stopped for this reason) whereas Beryl is a power user toy, making the former a more sane option to be installed by default. Each to his own.
    • threepio, on 10/12/2007, -46/+20Dear Linux community,

      We think what you're doing is really cool. We want to be part of it - however, you really need to working on the naming scheme. Ubuntu? Compiz? Beryl? Feisty Fawn? If you were going for daunting and confusing - mission accomplished. I realize names like "Office", "Pages", "Terminal", "Mail" and "Word" aren't names that scream "viva la revolucion!" but it might make the intellectual ticket price a bit lower for those of us who don't want to wade through a catalogue of carnival names.

      Cheers,

      The rest of Us.
    • lpcustom, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5I'm just wondering...are you guys using AIGLX or XGL ....and are you using ATI or NVidia....just wondering what the specs are for the systems that are getting broken by all the beryl updates. I update SVN every single time a new update comes out and nothing ever breaks. I get all the latest features and it runs smooth. So my only thoughts is that it's a difference in hardware. Nvidia 7800 GT 256mb here using NVidia AIGLX support in the newest driver.

      Also this is true using Ubuntu Edgy, Debian Etch, and Arch Voodoo
    • diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -1/+31If Beryl keeps heading down the path they've forged, they'll soon find themselves becoming just a plugin ideas factory for compiz. In fact, it already is like that. Because of the one-way direction of code-sharing between the two projects, compiz will just have to end up rewriting all the plugin work done by beryl.

      Plus the big three (opensuse, fedora, and ubuntu) have all chosen compiz as the default desktop compositor. All that duplicate work for making (admittedly impressive) plugins is quite a shame.
    • donnydarko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3There was some more talk of a merge here http://lists.beryl-project.org/pipermail/beryl-dev/2007-February/000237.html & here http://forum.go-compiz.org/viewtopic.php?t=609
    • shakin, on 10/12/2007, -14/+18Does Compiz actually have a user interface for configuration yet? Beryl is more popular because it's easier to install and easier to configure. Gconf is crap. Don't go around spreading rumors that Beryl is stealing and Compiz is innovating when Compiz doesn't even have a configure applet (or at least it didn't for a long time).

      I also like how Beryl is removing Gnome dependencies, making it more portable than Compiz. KDE users shouldn't have to install tons of Gnome stuff just to run their window manager of choice.
    • b3mus3d, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7threepio-
      who elected you to represent us? :P
    • Mejogid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@shakin
      Ubuntu uses the desktop effects, which is meant to be in line with the Gnome HIG making it integrate with the Gnome desktop far better than the beryl settings manager. It also has some more complex and customisable configuration front ends, I myself use the compiz settings manager. All of them are better than the Beryl settings manager, which is way over the top right now (they're taking the approach that every variable should be easily user customisable, with the effect that it's so overwhelming that none are IMO - the opposite problem to that of the Gnome project). In general, compiz to me seems like a window manager while beryl seems more like a geek's toy (not that that's a bad thing... so I use both).
    • ordminute, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Dear Threepio,

      The reason why Linux tends to have such wily names is generally to avoid trademark disputes. When the Apple decided to trademark the word 'Numbers' they had to write out a big check and hire a couple of extra lawyers with intelligent haircuts. I personally find that white-washed generic names for programs like 'Mail' and 'Numbers' smack of techno-colonialism and anyway, while not challenging memory they are a wee-bit boring.

      Best,

      Millions Still Living.
    • Ademan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I agree with the sentiment that compiz is "better" in the sense that it's more stable, and I have the feeling it has more mature code. On the other hand, it's too stagnant for my taste, and the Gconf dependency really does get to me. I love GNOME, it's my primary desktop, but I have to say Gconf was one of the biggest design mistakes they could have made. Tying configuration to something as broken as gconf is a terrible idea if you ask me, in fact, multiple configuration backends sounds far more reasonable than the current setup if they refuse to migrate.
    • Doriath, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12"Don't go around spreading rumors that Beryl is stealing and Compiz is innovating..."

      It's not a rumor, but a fact, that Beryl is a fork of Compiz.
    • laplacian, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7They shouldn't converge. It's better when there's competition. I think choosing Compiz is a good choice. I've been using Beryl for the past few months and it's way too unstable.
    • stable, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@ junkalam

      > I sure do understand the frustration he and his team might be feeling, but you have to give the Beryl folks credit for developing a cool fork. One of the main reasons that made me want to try Linux for the first time over a year ago, was the cool beryl effects.

      Except that beryl didn't exist over a year ago and compiz was giving its first steps outside of the lab.

      Now seriously: I've been using compiz since the beginning and I can testify about its amazing stability since August '06. It ***** me off that the beryl team was getting all the attention when it was Reveman who began it all and made everything possible.
    • sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3Dear threepio,

      Oh STFU, you troll.

      cheers,

      Sanguinemoon
    • threepio, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5Gee folks, it was meant to be a kind hearted, tongue-in-cheek little ditty. Some of you really need to calm down. Terribly sorry about poking fun at your Fawns and your Comp... Compizes... Compizeses... Whatever.
    • rhyme22, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Hey threepio,

      One of the most beautiful things about Linux is, if you don't like something, add something you do! And if you don't want to do that, eff off!

      With all due respect. ;)
    • sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Sure Threepio, enjoy your Longhorns, whatever cattle have to do with operating systems and your Vista, whatever views have to do with operating systems. Lately anti-linux people like yourself have taken to picking on Linux application names, as if they're difficult. In doing so, you're only showing your own level of ignorance and frustration; you don't know enough about the actual operating system, so you pick on the app names like idiots. Sorry that *nix app developers don't have millions of dollars to pay marketing drones to sit around all day and think of application names; they're too busy developing and improving the actual product. So instead, often in the KDE and Gnome menu, the applictaion is listed as its type: instead of Abiword, you might have word processor. for example. If that intellectual ticket price is too high for you, how do you even use Windows on your cracker pwnd zombie machine on the spammer botnet. How do I know you have cracker pwnd zombie machine on the spammer botnet? Very simple. When you went to Walmart you saw a box that said "McAfee AntiVirus" but when you took it home, you discovered the flat, silver pill was too big for you to swallow, and thus was useless as cold medicine, so you took it back.

      BTW, Compiz is actually a logical name. I know you're slow, so I'll go slow for you. Compiz is a c..o..m..p..o..s..i..t..i..n..g window manager. It's play on c..o..m..p..o..s..i..t..i..n..g get it. Take the c..o..m..p and add an "..i..z" Understand now?
    • threepio, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2*****! It was a joke! A joke! Humour people!

      Didn't you install the humour module in your latest distrubution? Jesus. Take a ***** pill.
  • junkalam, on 10/12/2007, -18/+13...
  • PleaseJustDie, on 10/12/2007, -20/+45I'd rather have beryl.
    • Tsen, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Agreed. I've been using Beryl for a month now and haven't had any issues whatsoever--and I'm running a crappy Intel graphics card, so I must say i was expecting quite a bit of trouble. It was somewhat like the surprised feeling when you walk up a staircase and think there's an extra step--except in a pleasant way.
  • lpcustom, on 10/12/2007, -12/+18I love it when distro's take away my choice. Normally I'm a Ubuntu fan but I don't see why the ubuntu-desktop meta-package should depend on compiz. What if I don't want compiz? Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but making it a dependency doesn't sound like a good idea.

    Edit: it looks like they have this backwards...the compiz desktop-effects metapackage depends on ubuntu-desktop....that would make more sense.
    • 98acura, on 10/12/2007, -6/+34www.linuxfromscratch.org

      roll your own then.
    • lpcustom, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8I can actually say I've done that three times. I also didn't say I use Ubuntu. Just pointing out that needless dependencies aren't a good idea. Try dealing with dependencies in an LFS. Installing the package by default is fine...making it available is fine....but requiring it in order to install gnome.....I don't see that as a good thing sorry.
    • wired4u, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12try apt-get remove compiz should get rid of it.
    • lpcustom, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16That's my point....if ubuntu-desktop depends on it...when you try to remove it..it's going to remove ubuntu-desktop....
    • OrangeTide, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11ubuntu desktop has to depend on a window manager. It's not taking away your choices by depending on compiz. You can install Window Maker or whatever without removing ubuntu-desktop package. Just like you don't have to use metacity today, you just had to suffer with it being installed.
    • lpcustom, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4well ok lets say I want to install beryl and it decides that compiz conflicts with beryl and has to remove compiz.....since ubuntu-desktop depends on compiz....it's going to say it has to remove ubuntu-desktop in order to install beryl.....why not just leave like it is and just have compiz in the repos if you want it?
    • pbaehr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21@lpcustom: I believe ubuntu-desktop is a meta-package. It doesn't matter if it gets removed later.
    • lpcustom, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2@pbaehr yup but is gnome also going to depend on this desktop-effects package? You are right about the meta-package ....I wonder if the gnome-core package is going to depend on it though....
    • straxus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11"but is gnome also going to depend on this desktop-effects package?"

      No. It's just the meta package. Removing it means nothing. Practically everything installed by default in Ubuntu is in that meta package. It's sort of the point.
    • daedius, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Sabayon Linux.. mm =)
    • diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"Edit: it looks like they have this backwards...the compiz desktop-effects metapackage depends on ubuntu-desktop....that would make more sense."


      No! :) You just got it backwards again! ubuntu-desktop actually DOES depend on desktop-effects! That's what this story is about: compiz is installed by default. It's just not turned on.
    • Wyzard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Ubuntu aims for out-of-the-box desktop convenience so they have an "ubuntu-desktop" metapackage that brings in all their standard desktop stuff. You can remove it if you want, though it's a good idea to keep it since it can cause new things to be installed automatically when you upgrade.

      You're still free to use another window manager if you prefer; there's no harm in having Compiz installed but not used, aside from a small amount of disk space. Ubuntu is not "taking away your choice"; they're just providing a convenient set of defaults out-of-the-box, because out-of-the-box convenience is the main point of Ubuntu. You're free to use other distributions if you prefer, too.
    • ssam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4you dont have to use it.

      most people dont use everything thats in the default install. personally i dont use evolution, but i dont mind that it takes up a bit of disk space, i have plenty.

      if you want to pick about what you install, then do a server install and add what you want.

      there has been talk in the past about making it possible to remove things without removing ubuntu-desktop, but i don think it has come to fruition.
    • GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Would be difficult to achieve. What they need is a default ubuntu-gnome install then ubuntu-gnome-apps. This way you break it down into smaller metapackages. Same problem though just with more breathing room.
  • Hoov, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12...didn't the Ubuntu guys just say a week or two ago that they'd be foregoing both Beryl and Compiz for the time being? Or was that just Beryl they were reffering to?
    • diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11No...I was the submitter of the story you're talking about. It was actually the closed-source graphics drivers installed by default that got nixed for the feisty release. Since those drivers are required for compiz, the user will have to install them himself and then turn on compiz to get desktop effects.
    • darkyoshi, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2and it's a big mistake. they're making us suffer for open source, while without users open source is nothing!
    • Wyzard, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1"and it's a big mistake. they're making us suffer for open source, while without users open source is nothing!"

      And there are plenty of "open source users" who actually support the Free software ideology -- enough that Ubuntu dropped the idea of including the non-free drivers because of the outcry. The Ubuntu developers do seem to grok the openness thing, and it's not like they need to gain as many users as possible through whatever means necessary in order to maximize sales or something.

      Besides, Compiz works fine on my laptop's i915 with its free driver. :-)
    • ssam, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5for people with a intel card, or an oldish radeon, all they need to do is turn on desktop-effects in the control panel.

      for people with cards that need *spit* closed source drivers, they will need to install those. i have heard good things about a program called envy which can do this easily.
  • TRexesInF14s, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I don't think beryl is quite ready yet for a release in a stable distro, but it's getting very close. It's too much of a headache for an inexperienced user to deal with if something goes wrong (not to mention the need for Xgl with some ATI cards). I still prefer beryl to compiz though.
    • GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The latest ATI driver works with AIGLX.
    • cinnix, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Gmorgan - You what?! Which one, fglrx or FOSS radeon driver? Please say fglrx cus radeon drivers don't work for me.
    • diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@cinnix
      radeon and fglrx work with aiglx currently. :)
    • Greywhind, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Last I heard, the fglrx drivers didn't work with AIGLX. Then again, it's hard to find the latest news about them. Can anyone confirm that this has changed and give a link to the news (and hopefully a howto) about new fglrx drivers that do work with AIGLX? Without a source, I find this hard to believe, although I'd like to believe it.
    • GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3There was a minor rev of the proprietary driver recently which I've heard reports that it is working from a few sources. This doesn't necessarily mean it is working for all ATI cards but is working for some that didn't work previously. I first heard on the linux action show podcast (which I highly recommend) but have since had it corroborated by others.

      Note I haven't tried this myself but I trust the sources to be correct. This still doesn't mean the drivers are great either, just that they work at all.
    • lyzz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@diggaplease
      Can you prove your claim with a link? What the fglrx driver needed was support for GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap to provide accelerated AIGLX. Any device can do AIGLX, just not in an accelerated (usable) manner.
    • GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is the link from LAS show notes for the ATI driver

      http://www2.ati.com/drivers/linux/linux_8.34.8.html#183492
    • diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I was getting my info from LAS too, so then maybe I'm wrong. Bury my last comment in case people get the wrong idea! I do know for a fact that radeon works perfectly with aiglx, but I take back anything I said about fglrx. Sorry!

      I remember hearing about fglrx working with aiglx, but again, this may only apply to *some* graphics cards. Sorry for the ambiguity.
  • fjleon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27beryl is cooler, but it is unstable on some hardware because they chose a faster development model that result in cool stuff in the short run.

    Compiz is slower, because they are trying to do it the right way.

    Anyway i support both projects. They may be eye candy, but some of them actually improves productivity, for example the expose-alike features and the zoom plugin are a must.
    • stable, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1> Compiz is slower, because they are trying to do it the right way.

      I'm sorry but this is *NOT* true. Compiz runs much faster on my laptop's i915 than beryl. You are probably talking about buggy drivers which don't have anything to do with compiz and on which beryl runs faster with the (unaccelerated) --use-copy.
    • jackhole, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3stable's reading comprehension is unstable on some posts because he chose a faster reading model that results in strange interpretations in the short run.

      jackhole is slower, because he reads things the right way.
  • tehjarvis, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2It's included by not enabled.
  • Sneakernets, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4ah this is why my development branch installation BROKE.

    • dmason, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Mine did, too... I used openbox for a week, then an update fixed everything.
  • eddyc, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Stability is more important to the devs at ubuntu than flashy fx

    I love beryl a lot but as cool as it is , it crashes a hell of a lot

    The compiz guys are going more for more solid but less flashy desktop,
    • diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12"The compiz guys are going more for more solid but less flashy desktop,"

      Actually I think that's a mischaracterization. It only seems that way because the bulk of beryl development goes into creating plugins and not the infrastructure (which they can afford to do thanks to compiz). Eventually everything you see in beryl effects-wise will be available in compiz through a pluggable effects system.

      The compiz guys care just as much about flashiness as the beryl guys do.
    • pauldonnelly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6More like they're going for a solid desktop first, which can be made flashy with relative ease later on.
    • GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1In reality 3D effects aren't as important as it is made out to be in any case. It's great but I had a much better feeling after seeing vector rendering come in (which will be extended further by KDE) than when these came in. Vector rendering is what gives the Mac is nice smooth lines. It will be nice to have it all though.
  • mejason69, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Ahh its not such a big deal men....well at least I do not think so. Suse installs Compiz and XGL by default... I just uninstall those suckers and then load up beryl on the nvidia driver and its pretty much smooth sailing.

    Compiz is sorta boring in terms of effects when compared with beryl! ahh to each there own! :-)
  • jake3988, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Compiz looks cool, but there's not a single way of actually configuring it. Get a way to actually configure it, and I'll reinstall it.
  • jake3988, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2I love it when distro's take away my choice. Normally I'm a Ubuntu fan but I don't see why the ubuntu-desktop meta-package should depend on compiz. What if I don't want compiz? Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but making it a dependency doesn't sound like a good idea.
    Edit: it looks like they have this backwards...the compiz desktop-effects metapackage depends on ubuntu-desktop....that would make more sense.
    ========

    Everything installed by the meta-package is required by that meta-package to be installed. So everything installed by default is there forever.

    That's why I HATE mainstream linux distros, but of course, if it wasn't this way people would complain 'its too hard' and go away.


    Man, I so wish freebsd would clean up its act so I can go back. Its like linuxbyscratch except that it gives you a nice kernel and easy install.
    • Chandon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Why do you care?

      Maybe the metapackage gets uninstalled when you remove compiz. That's ok. Maybe you install beryl and don't use compiz - but don't bother uninstalling compiz and saving the couple megs. That's ok too.
    • GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Compiz takes up how much space on your machine exactly and it can be installed in parallel with Beryl (at least when it was 0.1.3 you could). HDD space is cheap.
  • PostedOval, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2From an end users perspective, I would like to see them converge...

    And who's to say that Ubuntu couldn't just include both!?
    • Hoov, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10...well they kind of split up for a reason.
  • OrangeTide, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6compiz - MIT licensed, just like X11
    beryl - fork of compiz with many changed/enhancements. and re-licensed as GPL for no good reason. (other than it is "cool" to use GPL these days)
    • straxus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5No good reason? Some Compiz people seem a little ***** about the fact that thier project was forked and relicensed. I have some trouble understanding their feelings, considering they /chose/ a license that explicitly permits that use. There are licenses to choose from that force forks to give back code. One of them is the GPL.
    • lpcustom, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1What exactly is preventing Compiz from using Beryl's code again? The GPL doesn't prevent that ...as long as they say where they got it.
    • straxus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Actually, it does. If you want to modify and distribute GPL code, it must also be released under the GPL.
    • jron, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2@lpcustom, compiz can't take anything from the beryl project because beryl has yet to do anything worth taking.
    • ssam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8basically code can move from MIT/BSD to GPL, but not the other way.

      if you distribute GPL code, then it must retain the GPL rights.

      if you distribute MIT/BSD code you can remove rights.

      see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_and_GPL_licensing and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_licenses#BSD-style_licenses
  • evanfrey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15This is taken from Mark Shuttleworth's blog

    "Neither Compiz nor Beryl have the requisite stability and compatibility to be a default option in Feisty."

    http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/95
  • midmarky, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3Beryl is way better.
  • MaLaCoiD, on 10/12/2007, -14/+2Digg me if you don't really know what Beryl and Compiz do.
    • shinda, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6They make things look and play nice, and make your desktop more fun to use.
    • lpcustom, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Digg me up if you are wondering why people post comments like this in a thread totally about Compiz and Ubuntu!
  • lpcustom, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19Beryl on my PC is more stable and a lot faster than Vista's Aero ....and MS actually sell Vista as non-beta software. So if Beryl isn't stable enough to go into Ubuntu.........ah nvm it's too hard to explain to them....
  • daedius, on 10/12/2007, -19/+2I don't really care about Ubuntu - they are an OS for n00bs and probably shouldn't confuse themselves with 3D desktop cubes. Sabayon ( a gentoo based distro ) has Beryl and thats all I need. It hasn't ever given me problems and I use it primarily as a desktop toy when I want things to look fancy. I'm happy Beryl did what they did. They've fostered a community thats inspired to create! GPL code our not, they are able to hold the banner of 3d accelerated desktop well. Long Live QuinnStorm!
    • lpcustom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15If you don't care about Ubuntu...here's a thought...don't read something that's completely about Ubuntu....That way you don't feel the need to post a comment about the distro for n00bs.

      You aren't helping the image of GNU/Linux at all by saying Ubuntu is for n00bs. It's great that Sabayon hasn't given you any probs. How about writing an article about it, instead of comparing it to Ubuntu. I've used most distro's and just like Windows its not really about the OS itself so much as it's about the user. If the user is good...the OS will work well. If the user is an idiot...well you wind up with a box that's hosed because they try to download My_wife_with_a_candle_in her_ass.exe(which is around 400 KBytes and they thought it'd be a good full length movie) from Limewire.

      There are plenty of experienced Linux users that use Ubuntu, just like there are plenty of n00bs using Sabayon. I use lots of different distros. I prefer Debian or Arch but that doesn't mean I'm going to say everyone else is a n00b because they use a certain distro. It's all ***** Linux.
    • straxus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"I don't really care about Ubuntu"
      But you decided to comment about it on a story about Ubuntu.

      "they are an OS for n00bs and probably shouldn't confuse themselves with 3D desktop cubes"
      Yeah. Eye candy really seems to hurt the usability of Macs.

      You fail at trolling.
    • ray901, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Anyone using the term 'n00bs' when trying to put-down Ubuntu users while at the same time glorifying their own distro is an idiot and will get dugg down.
    • GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Ubuntu is for n00bs or for people who want something like Ubuntu and value their time. I've used every major distro out there and they all have their place and there are times when you would consider Fedora etc over Ubuntu and vice versa. Yes the hype is a bit much but there is nothing you can't do with Ubuntu as such*. It's just a matter of if the default looks like what you want.

      *it's Linux, you can always compile from source if Ubuntu is missing something from the repo.
    • sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ian Murdock has at least one Ubuntu machine. Nobody in his or her right mind would call him a n00b.
  • parax, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I liked Beryl until about a week and a half ago when it suddenly broke and every version I force still has the same problem: the desktop is just a white cube. At first I used a workaround, but I decided I'd rather my system not be supported by a series of sloppy hacks for the sake of a couple cool visual effects.
    • ectogon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I wouldn't like that either... but you are running software that is in active development, whether it is compiz or beryl. of course things are going to break.

      I hope you submitted a bug report!
  • growler1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Thus begins my desperate attempt to enable direct rendering on my legacy box.
  • SAOSiN, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I couldn't find any info on this but can Ubuntu read NTFS partitions? I don't want to reformat my drives to be readable on the Ubuntu side. If they aren't could I just go to windows through Wine and access the files on the NTFS partition?
  • techer123, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2very well said lpcustom, I completely agree.
    • aibotca, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@lpcustom:
      To my knowledge, ubuntu-desktop is just a meta-package, there would be no harm in removing it.
  • Koppie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@fjleon & eddyc: you've got it right. I use Beryl too, but I admit it's not ready for a stable distro. Compiz is much more stable. If I upgrade to Feisty, I'll still have to install Beryl manually. But you know what? With (K)Ubuntu's built-in AIGLX support, it's not that hard any more!

    You know what's refreshing? This thread hasn't degenerated into a "mine is better!" "no mine is!" thread. Maybe Beryl & Compiz users are finally learning to get along, even if the devs won't. "Compiz-y and Beryl-y, living together in harmony!"
  • mcrules, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The one concern I have that has not been addressed is what happens with 3D accellerated games, whether they are packages included with Ubuntu or Wine games like World Of Warcraft that won't work with Beryl enabled (I know compiz is not Beryl, but I have to run as Metacity to get the games to work). This could drive compatibility with 3D games but break a lot of things in the meanwhile
    • ssam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2doesn't aiglx solve this?

      compiz can be turned on and off easily from the desktop-effects control panel
    • mobilehavoc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ssam: AIGLX doesn't work with (last I checked) ATI's FGLRX drivers.
  • bitterbug, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I've installed both Beryl and Compiz and found them to be a lot of fun to experiment with. But I don't understand why they are more taxing on my video card than World of Warcraft under Wine. If I start WoW, I *might* hear the video card fan pick up speed. But turn on either Compiz or Beryl and the GPU fan maxes out every time. (And this is on an nVidia 7600GT). So i usually just run with kWin instead.
  • mobilehavoc, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Nice...Compiz is installed by default but the graphic binary drivers aren't. Wonderful.
    • diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7then direct your email to ATI and nvidia
    • rhyme22, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@mobilehavoc

      Most Linux distros don't include proprietary drivers for many reasons... I've installed ATI and NVidia linux drivers (downloaded from their official websites). In both cases (but especially for NVidia) I was amazed at how easy and simple it was to do. Try it out, and check out compiz!

    • sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Just enable the bloody restricted repositories and stop your lamenting. Installing the drivers is trivial.
    • SniggityBiggity, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I can see the flock of retard admins/users rolling up on the horizon,
      the next wave of MCSE's are Ubuntu fags
  • brnews, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Beryl vs. Compiz is just like KDE vs. Gnome.. so I guess in the future they should be releasing Bubuntu and Cubuntu :)
  • jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3I hope that Beryl and Compiz converges.... Beryl is sweeeet
  • aibotca, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I don't agree with it being installed by default, not because I don't like Compiz, because I see it as something unnecessary to install. Ubuntu seems to becoming more bloated as it moves on in developments ... maybe that's just me thinking that? :/

    Although, it is good for users who like 3D effects and have trouble installing and getting Compiz to work. It was also a good choice over Beryl in my opinion. Compiz and it's developers have seem to have been left in the dark for such great work. I believe Compiz is more stable than Beryl, based on personal experience with installing/updating. Beryl is fine and dandy but it seems to be moving too fast to focus on it's core problems.
  • Netwatcher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Please don't start a digg war over this, but could anyone point me to a nice side by side comparison of Compiz vs. Beryl.

    I've been using Compiz for some time now, but would like to know what the advantages/disadvantages of switching might be?

    Thanks I appreciate any help.
  • chromecast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@threepio

    whats wrong with the name Feisty Fawn?
    Its cute and I just want to hug it.
  •  

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