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Coming soon: automatic Linux driver upgrades
linux-watch.com — Linux users want two things for their hardware: drivers; and easy access to those drivers. The first is finally happening; and now, thanks to a Dell Linux project called DKMS (Dynamic Kernel Module Support), the other is on its way.
deviceguru- 806 diggs
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- jrepin, on 10/29/2007, -2/+31It's integrated into Mandriva Linux for quite some time and it woks quite well. If you upgrade the kernel DKMS automatically rebuilds the driver, same if you upgrade the driver
- Spr0k3t, on 10/10/2007, -0/+15This is a common practice for most modern distros. You can even find it in the latest Fedora, *buntu, and even Arch last I checked.
- djGentoo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3And PCLinuxOS, through Mandriva (noticed it on 0.93, it was the only madwifi worked when I upgraded to 2.6.17). Really useful.
- geminitojanus, on 10/29/2007, -1/+34DKMS was started by Dell in 2003. Way to keep up.
- OBKenobi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+19The article says: "Dell and Linux distributors have been working on DKMS for about five years now."
- geminitojanus, on 10/29/2007, -0/+20Yes, but "Coming Soon"? That's a bit like saying:
"Coming Soon: Titanic, the movie". It's been out for ages.
- geminitojanus, on 10/29/2007, -0/+20Yes, but "Coming Soon"? That's a bit like saying:
- manicallday, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I had to rescan the article over again to make sure that they were not talking about something other than dkms.
- OBKenobi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+19The article says: "Dell and Linux distributors have been working on DKMS for about five years now."
- schestowitz, on 10/10/2007, -12/+4From http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/09/21/ ... (new Digg will blast this URL, as usual)
"in your $distro's kernel."
.............^
What if you're using a free as in free big distro? Or why is it a variable? Either way, thank you, Dell.- Fragmatic, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1That doesn't mean It's for non-free distros.
- adrianmonk, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7That dollar sign variable substitution joke in the article was lame. "In your $distro's kernel"? Variable substitution jokes are supposed to read well if you actually substitute in a value for the variable. If you use Debian, that phrase would read "in your Debian's kernel", or for Red Hat it, it would read, "in your Red Hat's kernel". Both sound dumb and make the person who wrote them look like a poseur. It should've been "in ${your_distro}'s kernel" instead.
- TGMD, on 10/10/2007, -3/+25Just one more step into making Linux a truly globally usable OS.
- crayak, on 10/10/2007, -9/+11I'm new to Linux, and I'm having trouble just installing programs so this is really big leap forward.
- chronichyjinx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9Glad to see you've taken a step forward!
- thestorey, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Glad to see your supporting him!
- brharri1, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Which distro are you using? Do you know how to use repositories? Look for help because the majority of progs are very easy to install!
- psylence, on 10/10/2007, -14/+1If you're using Ubuntu or Fedora and you can't install apps go back to Windows or grab a Mac.
- chronichyjinx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9Glad to see you've taken a step forward!
- zeifers, on 10/10/2007, -4/+11if this works i will give linux a 2nd try
- Waterrat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2 Don't give up on it...If one distro does not work for you,try a different one.
This is very exciting news for all of us Linux users.
- Waterrat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2 Don't give up on it...If one distro does not work for you,try a different one.
- Sharky35, on 10/10/2007, -22/+4So microsoft does automatic updating and it's bad...
But when linux does it... it's good?- drag, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14Hey.
You don't know what your talking about.
Never, not once, does any Linux system.. commercial or otherwise... force automatic updates. In fact automatic updates aren't a option on any distribution I use. You can do automatic _download_ of updates, or automatic _checking_ of updates. But I never used automatic updates.
What this article about is that Dell can make automatic upgrades to drivers if the users decide to use the upgrade. That is instead of having to upgrade your kernel or upgrade your distribuion Dell (or whomever) can just provide packages with new drivers that users can use.
What Microsoft did was _stealth_ forced_ upgrades. That is when even when you thought you had 'automatic upgrades' disabled Microsoft still went out and installed updated software on your system. With no notification.
There is a huge difference between making new drivers automaticly aviable through the add/remove/upgrqade application in your desktop menu (what Ubuntu/Redhat/Dell/DKMS/etc is doing) versus having software upgarded against your expressed will (what Microsoft did)- spikes, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Since when did Windows do automatic *driver* updates?
- drag, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14Hey.
- Zaggynl, on 10/10/2007, -1/+19The Penguin's growing up..
- renegadeafk, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7They grow up so fast... *Sheds a tear
- EdiciusTsaf, on 10/10/2007, -17/+5There are still too many copanies without quality linux drivers.
***** suck mirror environment colbert ipod kevin rose- sgoogle, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Been playing too much DiggKiller? ( http://www.kurtmargenau.com/diggkiller/ for those who missed it)
Should have just said epic rather than Kevin Rose - tech42er, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Your first line sucked, but the second line is appreciated.
- sgoogle, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Been playing too much DiggKiller? ( http://www.kurtmargenau.com/diggkiller/ for those who missed it)
- JasonCox, on 10/10/2007, -11/+3"...***** suck mirror environment colbert ipod kevin rose"
Dugg up because you said Colbert and Kevin Rose in the same comment.
:-P- tech42er, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Dugg up because I need all the power ups I can get.
- sej7278, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5whats the difference between this and say yum fetching a new nvidia driver from livna even if there is not a new kernel out (like my fedora7 box just did)?
must say i've always wanted vmware tools to be updated automatically with a new kernel rpm, its about the only thing i still compile, i guess that's closed-source binary blobs for ya....- Myztry, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1I love my Ubuntu Box I'm writing from now (well - I quite like it anyway)
But the Nvidia drivers from the site are the biggest pain.
Stopping the Xserver in order to start the installation script is hardly automatic or obvious to achieve.
An automatic update is presumably much simpler... And less googling painful... - BrandonMills, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2For enterprise-level distributions, where using any external unsupported update sites isn't an option. Anything that kills your external RHEL support pretty much needs to get tossed. Now, why RHEL doesn't keep NVidia RPMs on their main site with dependancies on specific kernels is a mystery to me.
- sej7278, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0well a rhel server wouldn't usually need accelerated 3d gfx.....
myztry - that must be an ubuntu problem, on fedora its already automatic.
- sej7278, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0well a rhel server wouldn't usually need accelerated 3d gfx.....
- mdomsch, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1freshrpms.net has been using DKMS for over a year for their packaging of third party kernel drivers, including nvidia. Livna has used a somewhat different approach, preferring to recompile the drivers on the Livna servers when a new kernel is released rather than recompiling on the end users' systems. That's a fair approach too, but the DKMS approach lets the end user choose their kernels more flexibly.
- Myztry, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1I love my Ubuntu Box I'm writing from now (well - I quite like it anyway)
- Ares, on 10/10/2007, -7/+3Dugg up because you called attention to Colbert :D
- rick71, on 10/10/2007, -6/+2PCLinuxOS is hardly ever mentioned by reviewers. It is not mentioned in this article either, and yet it is listed as #1 in Distrowatch's listing, and that is without Ubuntu's/Canonical's deep pocket advertising. And yes, DKMS is included.
- cquilliam, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Is PCLinuxOS really that popular now? I'm skeptical about its popularity being higher than Ubuntu. I've used many many distributions in the past, including PCLinuxOS and I would not even place it into my top 5, even top 10 is pushing it. Its good to keep in mind that these distribution rankings are based on the distribution's profile page hits and not by people actually using it or downloading it.
- renegadeafk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I actually do think PCLOS is a great distro, but I doubt it is as popular as ubuntu, it's community is a fraction of the size of ubuntu's.
- rick71, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1I've used LinuxPPC, Yellow Dog, Redat, Fedora, and Suse. I have Ubuntu installed to give it a look. I moved from Suse to PCLOS, and haven't looked back. The biggest nit I have with PCLOS is where you have to look to set up your static IP.
- geminitojanus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Yeah, you can get to #1 on DistroWatch just as easily as you can get to #1 on Google, spamming, DDoS attacks...
- rick71, on 10/10/2007, -4/+0I guess that's how Ubuntu did...
- cquilliam, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Is PCLinuxOS really that popular now? I'm skeptical about its popularity being higher than Ubuntu. I've used many many distributions in the past, including PCLinuxOS and I would not even place it into my top 5, even top 10 is pushing it. Its good to keep in mind that these distribution rankings are based on the distribution's profile page hits and not by people actually using it or downloading it.
- neko, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3I'm confused. How is this different from just modprobe'ing a new driver?
- mdomsch, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1to modprobe the new driver, you must have that driver compiled and included as part of your distro's kernel, stored in /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/... somewhere. What if you don't have the driver there yet, because it's not included in your distro's kernel package? That's what DKMS solves - it compiles driver source code into a module and puts it in the right place so you can just 'modprobe newdriver' thereafter. It does a bunch of other stuff too.
- Xilon, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2So how is this different from installing the missing driver from your distribution's repository?
I only see this as a problem if the driver is _not_ in the repository.
- Xilon, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2So how is this different from installing the missing driver from your distribution's repository?
- mdomsch, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1to modprobe the new driver, you must have that driver compiled and included as part of your distro's kernel, stored in /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/... somewhere. What if you don't have the driver there yet, because it's not included in your distro's kernel package? That's what DKMS solves - it compiles driver source code into a module and puts it in the right place so you can just 'modprobe newdriver' thereafter. It does a bunch of other stuff too.
- mountaincable, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3But why? If it ain't broke don't fix it, thats why there are linux boxes that have been up for years.
- Bisqwit, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2I think, automatic driver upgrades can screw you up. For example, at some version, the proprietary NVidia drivers for Linux suddenly dropped support for my "GeForce2 MX/MX 400" card. No more 3D acceleration. I should not have upgraded.
- EnterDaMatrix, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Use the legacy version.
- Bisqwit, on 10/13/2007, -0/+2That's not the point. An upgrade screwed up what worked before.
There are other issues getting the legacy version working.
- Bisqwit, on 10/13/2007, -0/+2That's not the point. An upgrade screwed up what worked before.
- EnterDaMatrix, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Use the legacy version.
- maz2331, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1I build my own kernels from vanilla sources.
- vinbob, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You not quite getting it chaps. DKMS is about being able to create modules that do not have to be compiled for a specific kernel.
To sej7279:
Currently if you where to upgrade the kernel with yum but the nvidia binary module *for that specific kernel* was not available on livna yet, your kernel may be updated but would the nvidia driver be missing in the new kernel, although it'd be likely that Yum would warn you of missing dependencies.
With DKMS the idea is that any any modules not included in the kernel upgrade will still carry over to the new kernel following the upgrade without having to download and install a separate precompiled module package.
To Sharky..
Most Linux desktops automatically update, that's not the issue here. No-one ever said that automatic updates are bad on desktops, servers are a different ball game though.
On most Linux desktops not only the kernel and drivers are updated automatically but the apps too, so long as they've all been installed with the distro's package manager. - andreyknure, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Being a technical support engineer of web hosting providers I would like to say Linux is one the best operating systems which is widely used in the web hosting industry. Just take a look at the web hosting companies placed at my web page - www.andreyknure.narod.ru All these companies use Linux to manage their servers.
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