What is Digg?86 Comments
- HarryRag, on 10/04/2008, -12/+46It would be easier to convince people to switch to Linux if some in the Linux community did not insist in calling it GNU/Linux all the freaking time.
- kd420, on 10/04/2008, -0/+32He's right about the software thing. When I moved to Ubuntu, sometimes I'd find the program I wanted online, but they'd only have the source, so I'd have to compile it myself and it would never work. I'd get frustrated and give up, only to realize that it was available in Synaptic already. I'd then facepalm and install it in 10s, instead of the 20+ minutes I wasted trying to get the source install to work.
- Gutterpunk, on 10/04/2008, -4/+34In the case of OSX, you don't need a new mindset, you cheat sheet for every apps to determine what the ***** is happening with the cursor controls.
"Apple key + arrows" is treated differently in every apps. Apple key + shift + arrow? Even worse.
I don't understand why a company that has such strict standard for the UI across applications, but you need to learn how to use the arrows/home/end in every damn one of them.
And don't get me started on the lack of a proper taskbar. Say what you want about Window, but taskbar > dock. (ANY taskbar, not the Windows' taskbar in particular)
And this is not an anti-OSX rant. The find function is amazing, and everything is beautiful, but as a programmer who dabble in is own art and sound editing (ie : I often have 3-4 XCode window open, as many Gimp and 2-3 Audacity, getting lost between all those windows pisses me off every time) - tnoy, on 10/04/2008, -6/+35yes, it costs a lot more than both of them.
- Prototek, on 10/04/2008, -3/+23Summary:
Linux might seem more difficult to use, but it's just different. The kool-aid might taste funny but it's really just better. - inactive, on 11/13/2008, -4/+23Buddy of mine just gave me his girlfriend's stinky T22 (thinkpad). Has 500mb of ram and Windows 2000. She's getting it back with Ubuntu Hardy. Sorry, but I asked you for a recovery CD. I'm not in the mood to track down cracked versions of Windows... plus your laptop was infected with trojans and malware. She's gonna have to get used to using Linux. Not like she was using a lot of software. Her files consisted of hundreds of mp3s and word documents. Open Office will suffice and I'll just install the 3rd party software to support decoding mp3 files.
- debuggercll, on 10/04/2008, -5/+20That's what she said.
- guerraum, on 10/04/2008, -1/+15Good idea for an article, but too slim for my taste... a little more depth would be nice
- sirhomer, on 10/04/2008, -1/+14Pick from: "Linux" or "GNU" or "GNU/Linux" - and for specifically referring to Ubuntu as: "Ubuntu" or "Ubuntu Linux", or "Ubuntu GNU/Linux"
Once you pick one lets work together and codify it in international law that anyone who uses any of the other terminology be kicked in the face as punishment.
Yeah I am being sarcastic. Or am I? - sirhomer, on 10/04/2008, -4/+17Anyone who goes through the "torture" (emphasis the quotes) of using Linux as a desktop OS will gain a much expanded understanding of computers and a improved skill set that can transfer to many fields of endeavor. Linux broadens horizons. Both the underlying philosophy or the technology.
- thevoiceless, on 10/05/2008, -0/+12I've had none of the problems you speak of...
- osvik, on 10/04/2008, -9/+20I find the Mac to be more different from Windows than Linux.
- macewan, on 10/05/2008, -1/+12Printers 'just work' in both OSX and Linux... you plug them in hit print and all is good. My experience with Windows and printers is similar to a Dentist visit.
- maz2331, on 10/04/2008, -0/+11It's not the whole community, only the really hard-core Stallman followers who worry about it.
Many of us just use it and don't care WHAT the name of the damn thing is. - maz2331, on 10/04/2008, -2/+11Ouch.
I'd just give the thing back as-is. I won't reload anyone's machine against their desires.
Just charge for 3 hours of troubleshooting and return. - Sokkratez, on 10/05/2008, -4/+13It took me 30 minutes in Google to figure out what I needed to do to get my wireless card working in Linux when I had no experience. The same card that works by just plugging it in with Windows. Maybe my card was in the wrong mindset.
- sirhomer, on 10/05/2008, -1/+9IronDonut,
Linux belongs anywhere someone chooses to run it.
It sucks that Linux hassles you so much. Fortunately it doesn't hassle me, so I'll continue using it (currently running Ubuntu 8.04 and OpenSuSE 11), and I'll also continue to help other people switch over who choose to.
But really, cut it with the flaming. This is like the fifth time you come into a Linux article to attack it, and what do you know, you keep getting dugg down mercilessly. Basically you should really stop trying to ruin the party for everyone else. It just makes you look like an *****. - r00tus3r, on 10/05/2008, -1/+9It took me days to get my onboard soundcard to work in Windows XP and it "just works" with Linux. I actually flashed my bios and had to replace it trying to get the bloody thing to work and don't get me started on Apache, MySQL and PHP vs LAMP. Some things are easy with linux, some things are hard with linux. Some things are easy with windows, some things are hard with windows.
- Nephersir7, on 10/05/2008, -1/+7Dugg for not generalizing linux to ubuntu
- Atomic1fire, on 10/05/2008, -0/+5Linux sounds better
you can call it gnu when hurd finally works out.
but linux is pretty much the generalized name for all those distros - macewan, on 10/05/2008, -1/+6Utter *****. Mostly it comes down to attitude. Downloading and compiling software is rarely required. After 10 years of Linux I bought a MacBook Air. VMWare was purchased the same time at Apple.com to allow use of Vista, XP, and differing flavors of *nix mostly Ubuntu. In today's ever changing world you simple can not pan out as the dud which only understands Windows.
- reconsldr74d, on 10/05/2008, -0/+4@sirhomer
Hey if it walks like a duck and talks like duck...
I've never understood flame wars myself. Some people like Windows more and that's fine. I like GnuLinux more (Slackware and Debian mostly) and that works great for me. Why do people get all wrapped up in what other people like or don't like? - srg13, on 10/05/2008, -0/+4@garmarfr: Flash isn't supported on 64-bit Windows or Mac OS either... It's Adobe's fault, and it happens on all platforms.
- srg13, on 10/05/2008, -0/+4Are you using a computer with some kind of non-standard Asian-exported imitation hardware? Because I run Linux on three different computers (one laptop, two desktops) regularly, and all their hardware worked out of the box - no driver installation or anything (except for one proprietary nVidia driver - two clicks in the 'Hardware Drivers' box.)
- srg13, on 10/05/2008, -0/+4No, the message is that "Linux is not Windows". People go in expecting everything to be exactly the same, and get frustrated and agitated when they find it's not - even if the Linux way of doing things is better than what they had for Windows (package managers, for instance, are a far superior way of distributing software than Windows installers that require the user to update manually, or for the application to implement its own updator)
- ethana2, on 10/05/2008, -1/+5One day I thought "you know what, I just want to buy a machine, have everything Just Work and not have to screw with anything. I think everyone gets to that point sooner or later.
..and I am /loving/ my 1420n.. Getting my mom a 1525n soon!
Dell. Yours is here. - Cherubim, on 10/05/2008, -1/+5The fact is, GNU/Linux distro's detect more hardware out of the box than XP or Vista. The only downer is that wireless card detection can be troublesome. This is mainly because a lot of arrogant companies (I'm looking at YOU Broadcom) won't make their hardware transparent or release proper drivers. In those cases NDISWrapper is needed or one can wait for a reverse engineered driver.
- redwallhp, on 10/05/2008, -0/+4What are you talking about? I find that Dock > Taskbar. I got a MacBook after 7+ years on Windows, and I have to say the Mac OS kicks Microsoft's butt overall.
- Atomic1fire, on 10/05/2008, -0/+4thats because windows does not come with hardware,
macs do.
you have to own a mac in order to use Macintosh, which means that if you are buying a mac, your not just buying a os, your buying a new computer.
windows/linux can be standalone, so its more diy friendly.
whereas macs are just designed to be mostly work proof.
with some minor hinderances to a full windows user who uses say microsoft products only.
safari/internet explorer
itunes/windows media player
ect - databeast, on 10/05/2008, -0/+3dugg, because this exemplifies things quite accurately, and because you're inadvertantely promoting my favorite distro - Debian..
At last count, debian had 28,000 software packages available for easy apt-get installation. No, remember that most piece of software come in three packages... app code, dev code, and docs. still, that's 8000 piece of software, installable at the level *you require* via a single commandline entry.
Yes, I think that requires somewhat of a change in mindset to deal with. But once you're happy with it, you never want to go back..
I'm still happy with .MSI, I'm still happy with compiling things from source.. but the bar has been set for my expectations since I first installed Debian in 1997 - MuffinFlavored, on 10/04/2008, -2/+5I disagree. Changing operating systems from Linux to Windows is NOT like moving your fingers differently.
Sure, things may seem the same on the front-end, and you may just install a few different applications and have to do minor things mildly differently.
But the overall operating system, how everything is done, the back-end, the philosophy on top of it all, is not as "mild". - srg13, on 10/05/2008, -0/+3"Package managers never will be able to replace the ease and use of going to a website to download a program and have it installed like you can in windows and OS X."
Yes, because going to Add and Remove programs, searching the name and clicking Install is so much harder than opening a browser, searching for a program, looking for a download link, downloading a binary, running it, clicking next to a bunch of questions. Not to mention that a package manager will automatically update anyway.
But of course, if they so wish, software distributors can make binary packages for downloading off web sites as well (usually they're the same as the package managers use actually), and if you statically link the libraries you use, it will just work on pretty much anything you throw it on, unless it's another architecture (which requires a different version for any operating system - except x86_64 which has a compatibility mode to run x86 apps) - KingCritter, on 10/06/2008, -0/+2I take issue with "...or spend time hunting for a binary."
I don't see how opening up Synaptic and clicking on the search button equals out to "hunting."
But yes, I do love how applications work on Macs -- having files spread out everywhere makes everything so annoyingly complicated. I wish we could have that for Linux. The interesting thing is, I think it could be done -- without any changes to the default Linux file system. - Subvexer, on 10/05/2008, -3/+5My computer should change to suit my needs, not the other way around.
- redwallhp, on 10/05/2008, -0/+2Linux: Compile it yourself, or spend time hunting for a binary.
Windows: Run an installer wizard and wait for it to install.
Mac OS: Drag the app into your Applications directory.
I have experience on all three OSes, the most on the latter two, and I have to say that the Mac OS trounces Linux and Windows in many ways, such as the installation department. As for variety of software, Windows is far ahead of the other two, and Linux is third. There are plenty of free and open source apps that run on Macs, and there are plenty of commercial apps as well. - harlowsmonkeys, on 10/04/2008, -6/+8So, basically, the message to the typical computer user is "Linux would be viable for you if you weren't you"?
- pixeldust, on 10/05/2008, -0/+2option + arrows jumps to the end of a word in most, if not every, program in OS X? I am still failing to see your problem,
- tnoy, on 10/05/2008, -0/+2@solidus636
There is no "full-retail" version of OS X--and this is according to Apple themselves. The copy you see on the shelf is an 'upgrade version" they're using this in part of their argument against Psystar in the original lawsuit.
That upgrade version of OS X is $129 just like Vista Home Premium. Home Premium gives what 99.99% of the consumer population needs, for most of them the only reason to buy Ultimate is if they fall victum to marketing easily.
I'm amazed that people have been using the price of OS X as an argument against the price of Microsoft products while saying you have to use the "full retail" price, and then just gloss over the fact that Apple themselves even say that there is no "full retail" copy of OS X. - solidus636, on 10/05/2008, -0/+2Since Windows isn't a PC Manufacturer, and niether is Linux, it'd be unfair to say Mac costs a lot more. The OS is only 100 bucks, a lot cheaper than Windows(the retail versions, not the OEM ones), and it costs more than Linux, of course.
But yeah, Macs do cost a lot more than both, which is why I still do not have even ONE Apple product. - andreusboy, on 10/05/2008, -0/+2"Downloading and compiling software is rarely required."
Tell that to wireless chipsets manufacturers. - mrBitch, on 10/07/2008, -0/+1Agreed, and changing from Windows to a Mac OS X based OS also required the right mind set :
http://www.davidalison.com/2008/04/switching-to-ma ...
( blog about a Windows developer switching to a Mac ) - servnhim, on 10/05/2008, -0/+1I thought this was a well written article. While I can agree with you on some of your statements, I really have to disagree with much of what was stated. First, just to talk about the OS. While it can be stable and secure, the GUI's (KDE and GNOME) are a great reminder of Windows 3.1. I am sorry, by windows and OS X have us beat by a long shot. Some may say that the look does not matter....think again. In a truthfulness, it is a part of the package. Yes you can flounder around to get it to look like one of the 2 OS's, but the average person does not wish to.
Secondly, I agree and disagree with the package manager. Yes, there are loads of software listed, but they are not Photoshop or Microsoft Office 2007/2008. While GIMP and Open Office offer alternatives, they are not on par with their commercial counterparts. Maybe that is opinion, but I have tried getting people to switch to GIMP...it lasted less than a day. Open Office currently has nothing to compete with Outlook in it's package. Evolution is not an alternative since it does not work with Exchange 2007. Regardless, people will also have to get used to some unfamiliar software that is listed in the package manager to see if they work from them.
Third, drivers. While there are drivers out there, depending on what you are looking for, it can be a chore. With that, the distro of Linux also plays a role, as well. Ubuntu on a Dell Precision T7400 with NVIDIA 290 video card could not find any drivers and would not extend the desktop. After about 2 hours of fiddling with xorg.config, we did a work around. The network printer was the same experience.
While I love Linux and all that it offers, it is not a strong contestant for the desktop machine. For a change to happen, the Linux community needs to get a clue on the end user. Many will say that it supports more hardware, among other things....no one cares. What they want is to sit down, plug in a device, install their software and for it just to work. Bottom line. I know the arguments and I can see them coming. Linux users tend to have bigger heads than the Mac community. The people wanting to sit down and compute are very intelligent, but their time is valuable. Fighting to get devices and software they want to work is not an option. Again, this is why people use windows and mac. They work. (Don't start with the blue screens of death or viruses. I have not see a blue screen in 5 years and no viruses. Doing a hard shut down of Linux brings back those blue screens that are talked about.)
One last note, I do think that one big problem is that there are way too many distros. This is distracting and can be counter productive. I have found this myself. One distro falls short where another shines, etc. All in all, Linux can be a great tool only if the community begins to understand the computer user. We are not there yet. - redwallhp, on 10/05/2008, -0/+1I agree. GIMP is in NO WAY a replacement for Photoshop. It just isn't.
- bipolarruledout, on 10/05/2008, -0/+1Not nessesarily, it might however require a change in applications.
- pmichaelson, on 10/06/2008, -0/+1Getting the Broadcom adapter on my laptop took a couple downloads, but thanks to the community all the questions I had were answered and step-by-step instructions were there.
- pmichaelson, on 10/05/2008, -0/+1Install VLC; it handles virtually any media file and it's an easier transitional software for someone used to WMP.
- srg13, on 10/05/2008, -0/+1None of the Apple apps are X11 or Classic (X11 isn't even installed by default, is it?)... And I doubt that they are using much Java either - almost everything is Cocoa or Carbon, and they're gradually moving everything to Cocoa.
- pyrates, on 10/05/2008, -0/+1Well hurd has been around for 25 years or so, so my question is, wtf is taking them so long? I say poor leader ship where the most important part of it is that it is free and open source, not that it works.
- reconsldr74d, on 10/05/2008, -0/+1I'm not sure why you think that would make it easier for people to switch... in any case. I use both terms depending on who I'm speaking to and what I'm speaking about. Linux to non users or beginners who don't really care and Gnu/Linux if I need to differentiate it from the kernel for some reason. Justifiable enough if you ask me.
- pmichaelson, on 10/05/2008, -0/+1The only major frustration that I've ever had with Linux is the software-compatibility issue, and I blame that on developers, not on my OS. If they choose not to support me, they can eat it as far as I'm concerned. My PC still has a Windows partition for the stuff I really just can't live without, but as time goes by I get more and more used to not having it. Most of the stuff I need I've been able to get working with WINE, or found an alternative in the open-source community.
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