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82 Comments
- Shananra, on 10/12/2007, -4/+28"why does ANY story with people converting to Linux make the front page... is it really that big of deal for you fanboys? Does this affect any of us in any way?"
I think I does affect us because that means that the following will happen:
1. Microsoft gets more competition, which forces some actual innovation/better product.
2. More Linux users means more attention from hardware/software vendors.
3. Government agencies or large corporations using Linux bring the potential of more money into Linux and Open Source in general, which can be used for development.
Everyone wins. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Its getting to the point where nobody can afford Windows. Redmond needs to re-evaluate their prices and licensing if they want to curb this slow rot of their clients.
- schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15I'd hate to rain on this parade, but it was already in Digg's front page, almost a week ago... http://searchopensource.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39_gci1245710,00.html
Perhaps the most recent transitions are the FAA (probable) and Japan's schools (rumoured). - vulcanius, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12The rot may be slow now, but it will increase exponentially as time goes on and more and more organizations make the change.
- wonboodoo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9"And when the kids leave they're actually familiar with what they're most likely to use in the workplace. Then again, who ever said preparing kids for the workplace was something the school should be concerned with..."
a) You assume that these kids don't have Windows at home.
b) You assume when these kids graduate that Windows/MSOffice will still be dominant at work. MSOffice is doomed unless they start giving it away. The writing's in the wall. The world is moving away from proprietary document formats, and there are plugins being developed to save MSOffice files to open formats anyway. OpenOffice provides the required functionality for almost all users who need an Office suite. Why would anyone stick with MSOffice? As for the domination of Windows, this is more complicated, but I think it's only a matter of time for that as well.
When these kids graduate the OS & Office Suite landscape will be very different. So your comment: "whoever said preparing kids for the workplace was something the school should be concerned with" is wrong. It looks like California is preparing them for what they'll use in the workplace. - greatblackowl, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@shananra
You hit the nail on the head. I don't get all of these guys that hate Linux so much. I primarily use Windows, but have messed with (and messed up) several Linux installations, and I think that all will benefit once more people accept Linux and it becomes more widespread. Even some of these trolls on the Windows side of the fence will benefit just from Microsoft needing to improve to keep up its market share.
Why do these people troll Linux columns? It's weird. - woojoo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Finally! My comp sci class has been running Windows 2000 since it came out.
- iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8"My company is running an iseries( AS/400) server. It has 0 down time, no fear of viruses or malware, and it pretty much runs itself."
I've been here for 7 years and never had a virus or malware on any of my windows servers. The only downtime we've had is when we installed new hardware. I guess you could say they pretty much run themselves... Weeee, this is fun! - xs650, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"Except for the fact they failed to mention which city it was in. It would be cool if it were a big district in California, but we are talking about a small district that probably has a horribly small budget."
Doghound, 2nd paragraph of the article.
"Windsor, Calif. School District IT administrator Heather Carver"
Windsor is a small city near Santa Rosa California. The district can't be too small if they are dealing with 5,000 computers. - stalefries, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7This seems to be happening more and more. Hopefully this becomes a pattern!
- wvdavis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@codename - I am an Ubuntu user, however RTFA... "Following Easter break in a few weeks, about half of the 3,500 students and 250 teachers will be working on Linux-based thin clients running OpenOffice.org, and most of the district's servers will be running Novell SUSE Linux Enterprise Server."
- aluminumpork, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The high school I went too had the entire second floor running Linux Terminal Services (SuSe) and thin clients. It was really slick, and save them a ton of money. It wasn't a big deal for students at all, I mean OpenOffice is easy to get a hang of along with all the rest of the software.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7My company is running an iseries( AS/400) server. It has 0 down time, no fear of viruses or malware, and it pretty much runs itself.
- Wootery, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@ballard
"I heard Microsoft is going to buy Linux and Bill Gates will piss all over everyone that ever worked on Linux. Man that sucks huh guys."
So not only are you a trolling moron, you're also ignorant of the most basic concept of free software licensing. - ZombyWoof78, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@gquaglia
Well schools pay different prices for windows. I am a system admin for a public school and the last time we bought licenses for Windows XP PRO they were only $50 a piece. Also, we get office for $35 a piece. - tuxnician, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I'm an IT person working in a school board (trying to get Linux going). The schools use MS Office (because it's an "industry standard") even though Word Perfect is available for free (purchased by the Ministry of Ed). I feel sorry for the parents who have to buy MS Office just so their kids can do their homework at home when Open Office is available and free. If only tax payers knew...
- wvdavis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Don't fret grayone, one day soon your grandkids will bring you a new computer. I'm sure that everyone is pulling for you and hoping that your NT machine will hold out until then.
- rarkai, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6They can work at all the places switching to linux....
- Altotus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"And when the kids leave they're actually familiar with what they're most likely to use in the workplace."
I'm not sure that's true. In the workplace of today, the MAJORITY of people use computers in a kiosk fashion where the underlying OS is irrelevant. Many use single apps or web apps -- again leaving the OS irrelevant. If you work in the telecom industry, pharma, life sciences, physical sciences, the vast majority of work there is UNIX and Linux-based (though often using Windows as a dumb terminal). If you go into performing arts, graphic arts, advertising, or broadcasting, you're likely going to be using a Mac. And that's just in the USA, where Windows is most dominant.
But that's today. We're talking elementary school kids. If Windows continues it's current slow-but-steady slide in market share (perhaps not so slow abroad), the world will be a much different place for those kids than it is for us today. - mdfrancois, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6This is a SUSE implementation, and includes servers in addition to desktops. Cool.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm glad Windows serves your needs. Unfortunately, one size does not fit all. Freedom of choice is what it is all about. Maybe you would rather it be like South Korea where all computer are required to run Windows, period.
- archiesteel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"Great so now when they go into the business world they won't know how to get things done in Windows."
Learning particular apps is useless from an education point of view. What you want to teach is basic principles and work methods. Using KDE is not that different from using Windows, using OOCalc is not that different from using Excel, and using Gimp is not that different from using Photoshop. So your criticism is misguided, I'm afraid.
In fact, one could argue that the greater variety of OSes the kids are exposed to, the better, because that will increase their capacity to quickly adapt to various computing environments. - fantasticFlan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Like how my generation doesn't know how to use anything but the Apple 2 that was so prevalent.
- vulcanius, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Like.... PC's are sooo 2003... were going retro and bringing back mainframes and dumb terminals, they are going to be ALL the rage........
Holy ***** I am so bored at work I'm delirious. - Vurk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Well if they work for the FAA...
- TheG2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I don't know many places in the private sector switching to Linux, and every company I've ever worked for or toured was running Linux in server form only with Windows on the desktops.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The best version of Windows.
- Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Yes, I know that the malicious apps will only be able to run in user space, but they will still run. Digg me down all you want, but mark my words.
- jawagas, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Woot, I graduated from that place. They used to have a sweet student tech support system.
- TheG2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4He's right about the what they'll be using in the workplace comment. MSOffice is the industry standard for most kind of clerical work. Companies get deep deep discounts for volume licensing, and no one is forcing you to upgrade anyways, Word 95 still works for about 80% of what people need it to do. And Windows, with the bulk of the market share, is the OS the average technical worker will be using in the workplace, trust me, I've been in enough offices and have only seen Linux once in a desktop role, the rest was for servers.
Linux is great and all for servers and in some specific desktop implementations, but you start putting it all over the place and the kids are going to be losing a lot of things that are important. For instance, learning software, digital imaging classes having to use GIMP (not the time and place here, but GIMP will never be PS), CAD classes (I think CAD now runs on Linux but there are some slight issues with it AFAIK), and the list goes on. I admire that school districts are trying to save money although if our government would just increase their budget.... - omegajb, on 10/12/2007, -9/+11Great so now when they go into the business world they won't know how to get things done in Windows.
- Doghound, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I feel stupid :(
Can't believe that little tid-bit of the story didn't stick... oh wait, yes I can. ahaha stupid brain. - IceCreamMatt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Their tech program kicked ass. I learned so much about computer repair, networking, and just like everything there in their tech programs.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The day I do all my WP in javascript I will throw myself off a bridge. It has it's uses but the overhead is too great to seriously consider running a full scale productivity package over the web. A better solution would be a heavy app client side which integrates with an online server which distributes the data and the ads (which is why Google do it after all). Then the javascript stuff can be used as a backup option.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This old argument. I assume all those 3.1 users were terrified of the switch to 95. GUI's are piss easy in any format. Make easy tasks simpler and complex tasks impossible.
- cuebei, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2One major point the article failed to address is the fact the K-12 schools in the US are rapidly moving away from learning software in general and are instead subscribing to learning resources available over the Internet. These resources are anything from video (as in unitedstreaming.com) to virtual dissection (as in froguts.com).
The point being that the platform is becoming increasingly irrelevant. With a few exceptions (Graphic and web development classes, administration software), the only thing a student needs is a web browser, flash plugin, ability to read PDF's, presention/wp software and that's basically it.
So why would schools continue to purchase licenses for something (Windows/Office) that doesn't give them any benefit? I'm surprised more schools haven't gone this route. The largest deployment (to my knowledge) of Linux in public education is in the state of Indiana.
http://www.eschoolnews.com/news/showStory.cfm?ArticleID=5837
But I think Suse will continue to be a major player in education. February 2006 at a educational technology conference in Hawaii, Novell was giving away Suse Linux to anyone who wanted a copy. These were full retail boxes and attendees could take up to 4 boxes. I believe Novell gave away 4 pallets full of Suse. - BrendanGall, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Pretty cool.
- wvdavis, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4@ tuxnician - I agree with you. I too work for my local school system and just sent a link to the the article to our CIO, we'll see what happens.
- wonboodoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1True for older generations that didn't have access to PCs at school or home. Irrelevant for the current young generation. Very few kids (in the developed world) these days are computer illiterate.
- iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"'In the workplace of today, the MAJORITY of people use computers in a kiosk fashion where the underlying OS is irrelevant."
Umm, maybe the majority of the people working in fast food or retail. The VAST majority of offices around the globe use Windows/Office. - Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You've just made my point - it would run on the idiots' user accounts. What if the only person using the computer is an idiot? And because the uptime is so great, they leave it on 24 hours a day, pumping spam out!
The fact is that compromised machines have much less to do with the platform involved and much more to do with the people using them. As above *as more novices are introduced to Linux,* Linux machines will be more likely to be turned into spam zombies.
Even the most well-considered arguments by Linux proponents against this fact basically boil down to two points: malicious code can't infect the whole system unless the user is running as root, which should never happen, and malicious code executed by a standard user will only affect that standard user's space (but it will run). To point one - who's to say that Linux novice won't just start running as root because it's more convenient? To point two - exactly, a spam zombie will run in user space and pump out spam and send itself via email to other unsuspecting victims, just like Windows worms travel today.
Users are users are users. The only reason Linux users are generally smarter about computing than non-Linux users is because there's a barrier to entry into the Linux world - and that's computer smarts. Once that barrier begins to drop (and it is dropping), the Linux user base will become less computer savvy, and more susceptible to the same old same old.
Jesus, take the ***** blinders off already. - wonboodoo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Yeah, because Linux doesn't have a Start menu, Windows, icons, a browser, office suites, a file manager, ... etc. Have you used a Linux desktop recently? From a user-perspective there isn't much of a difference between Windows/Linux/MAC. The difference is the low-level and administrative stuff (installing software, ... etc), and in a corporate environment all this is usually locked down anyway.
And you assume that when they do graduate and go to the business world that it will still be running MSOffice (no way) and Windows (maybe, maybe not) anyway. - omegajb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2wonboodoo: Have you seen that average computer user? They can barely get through Windows never mind a newer OS.
- SirGrant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Graduated from WHS as well, naw you didn't learn anything in Ramsey's class. You can learn way more just from the web and computer forums.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1NT is unadulterated junk though. It's a feat that Vista works at all given the crap they've based it off. Compare this to the most scalable and portable kernel on the planet and it makes a bit of a contrast. How many of the top 500 supercomputers does NT run (not owned by MS that is, we don't count that one that does nothing that MS built just to say they had a supercomputer struggling along with NT on it).
- Doghound, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Except for the fact they failed to mention which city it was in. It would be cool if it were a big district in California, but we are talking about a small district that probably has a horribly small budget.
The only mention of any city is the neighboring district (Cloverdale): http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Cloverdale+California&layer=&ie=UTF8&z=11&ll=38.80547,-123.023529&spn=0.256842,0.692139&om=1
That was my biggest problem with the article. - ONI5, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3And this will be the same school that will bitch when MS doesn't give them any funding because of the switch.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Guess you never used Linux. KDE looks and acts like Windows. Remember these kids aren't going to be installing anything or screwing with the OS. Just using the programs, point and click. Any idiot could do that, even you.
- archiesteel, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4jsballardx, welcome to my block list.
- wonboodoo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@Blitzenn
"these kids are going to learn about Linux and then go out into the real worlds and find that they cannot earn a living with the stuff (because everyone writes stuff for free for it, who the heck is going to pay you to do it"
Even if you discount that most open-source developers on major projects these days are paid for what they do, you do realize that most people who use computers at school will not end up as software developers right? Plus even those that do don't you think it's better that they learn a OS-agnostic language (Java, PHP, Perl, Python, Ruby) rather than a proprietary one (C#)? Not that most kids learn how to program at school anyway, which makes your comment even more ridiculous.
@gquaglia
"Google is now what MS was"
Discounting the evil factor of course ;-) -
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