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- alterImperson, on 11/13/2008, -8/+91The failure of the Linux Netbook is that there is no on-screen documentation/tutorial on first boot-up. If, when you boot up your netbook the first time it walked you through how to do the most basic tasks and how to get around the system, we would see a huge decrease in netbook returns. I work at a big box retailer (the blue one), and I sell a few EEE PCs a week, and with our displays out, people get the chance to play around with them before they buy, and they leave happy, fully understanding what they buy.
- orvl, on 11/13/2008, -22/+95I got one thing, and one thing only from this article: People are ignorant.
- shadowkiller137, on 11/13/2008, -31/+75"and that cheap netbooks don't actually come with the ability to edit video or work just like Windows"
well there is no video editing program in Ubuntu unless you look in the add applications menu where there are like 10 of them. Also if they want it to work like windows I can write a program to randomly restart their computer in order to ease their transition to linux. - RSAgent007, on 11/14/2008, -18/+53And that's the problem with typical Linux users: they're elitists.
Netbooks were really the one chance that Linux had to shine. But until Linux devs start putting more effort into usability, more friendly UI, and slowly abandon reliance on command line, Linux will never become mainstream.
Stop calling regular users "ignorant". Microsoft and Apple both know that. - MKdx, on 11/13/2008, -6/+34These return rates are not too bad. It may not be feasible to some businesses, but it is not really that bad with regards to customers satisfaction with the OS itself.
Keeping in mind that about 80% were happy with their Linux netbooks, and only 20% returned them (windows itself has returns rate around 5% here), I would say it's a good result for a 'new OS'. Linux will keep finding new markets, and more people will be familiar with it with time. It's only a matter of time at this point. - addzero, on 11/14/2008, -3/+27Let me fix the title for you:
"20% of Elonex Webbook's returned to Carphone Warehouse"
or
"Some obscure brand of netbook is not doing so hot."
Wow, this is not news now.
Is the "Elonex Webbook" representative of all netbooks now?
http://www.google.com/trends?q=Elonex+Webbook%2C+e ...
um, no. - addzero, on 11/14/2008, -1/+20I wouldn't say that the linux netbook is failing.
This is a crappy article and title.
The 20% return rate is with one obscure brand netbook brand at one retailer.
http://www.google.com/trends?q=Elonex+Webbook%2C+e ...
I don't think the "Elonex Webbook" is representative of this market.
http://news.google.com/news?q=netbook
The netbook is booming.
Sure, some customers expected windows, perhaps it's the retailer's fault for their uninformed customers- or the hardware or os setup on the Elonex stinks? - kanojo1969, on 11/14/2008, -7/+26It's been more than a thousand hours since I rebooted my desktop windows XP machine. You are grasping at straws, making comments that might have struck a nerve in 1996. Your smugness is entirely misplaced.
- codyjoe, on 11/13/2008, -3/+22I think people that buy these are used to windows, and if ubuntu is a little different, they just quit, without even trying to give it a chance. I have been using Linux Mint for about a year now, and I find it's a lot better for me than xp. But at least I did give it try. I still dual boot, if roboform worked in Linux Mint, I don't think I would not need xp at all.
- BradOFarrell, on 11/14/2008, -18/+37Once again, consumers hate Linux, and Linux-evangelists continue to be baffled as to why. If you guys keep on blaming the average joe for not being unable to understand your unintuitive operating system (rather than fixing the problem) then it's never going to get a respectable market share. Giving your OS some hippie art direction doesn't actually make it people-friendly if normal people don't understand how to use it. Don't blame them, blame yourselves. Fix it.
- fubuvsfitch, on 11/14/2008, -1/+19I just bought eeepc 900A from 'the blue one', and I love it.
I kinda understand why some folks used to windows would return the linux systems, but they should know what they are buying before they make the purchase.
Some people can't see the forest for the trees, I guess. - tremor_tj, on 11/14/2008, -0/+17What is it you're expecting it to do? Personally, I think the form factor is great. It's just big enough to be able to type on somewhat comfortably, and powerful enough to run Word and/or Open Office. No, it's not going to play games, and it's not going to replace your main computer, but as a 38 year old returning college student, I can tell you it's a hell of a form factor to shove in the backpack to take to class with me.
- lorddazzer, on 11/14/2008, -0/+17Just from the description, EeePCs come with Xandros, not Ubuntu. Not sure about other Linux Netbooks.
I am a happy user of Ubuntu (had to install it myself though) on an EeePC1000H.
I also find it funny how people think Linux == Ubuntu. And simply because the "Linux Community" isn't very cohesive, the average consumer is going to link "Linux" with every damn distro there is. So if one of them gets puts off by a poor distro, they're going to reflect on this when they look at a possibly better distro instead. - addzero, on 11/14/2008, -0/+14This article, and especially the title is crappy.
This 20% return rate is with one obscure brand netbook at one retailer.
Who is is Elonex and why are they suddenly representative of all netbooks? Hey, maybe their product is crap?
And how did "Carphone Warehouse" advertise it? Did they mislead their customers? - colincornaby, on 11/14/2008, -4/+18You know, I'd like a free operating system to succeed, but this is the problem with Linux. From them, free and open source trump having a workable operating system. Linux is more awesome than Windows and OS X, not because it's better, but because it's free and open source. Gimp trumps Photoshop not because it's better (it's not), but because it's free and open source. When you tell a Linux fanboy that you use OS X because it works well and has the software you need, the typical response is that you're wrong, and you should be using open source and free software anyway.
I really don't care if I can download the source, and honestly, I don't really need it to be free (although free is nice), as long as it isn't Microsoft Office crazy expensive. I just want something that works. And if it can write to a format that vaguely resembles plain text, I really don't care if the native format locks my data away. Just give me working software, not a talk on how open source is the way of the future. - BossKey, on 11/14/2008, -5/+18Sorry, RSAgent007 is right.
There is no clearer illustration of the contrast than Linux netbook return rates versus Apple store profitability. Linux elitists just don't get how normal people try to use a computer.
Apple gets it, and so they are the world's most successful distributor of Unix-powered consumer hardware and with the highest market share growth rate. Because having a genuinely friendly computer, from top to bottom (not just the software "skin") is so important that people will PAY for that difference. - addzero, on 11/14/2008, -3/+15You're getting this "consumers hate Linux" lie from this crappy title, description, and the first paragraph of the article.
This 20% return rate is with one obscure netbook brand at one retailer.
http://www.google.com/trends?q=Elonex+Webbook%2C+e ...
Perhaps the "Elonex Webbook" has crappy hardware? Or the Carphone Warehouse missled their customers?
Other than this bad article, it looks like netbooks are doing well:
http://news.google.com/news?q=netbook - kholburn, on 11/14/2008, -0/+12This is a Microsoft astroturf campaign. They just want to get the meme: "people return linux netbooks" up and running.
- mypetridish, on 11/14/2008, -5/+15i agree. i have dual booted ubuntu with xp before and found little use of ubuntu. i dont see any reason to use ubuntu or any other consumer linux flavor when you get to use XP as an OEM or $40 extra. take your pick.
- shanesemler, on 11/14/2008, -2/+12I've never even heard of "Elonex Webbook." Maybe it's just crappy hardware and has little or nothing to do with linux. The article and the store involved doesn't elaborate much on what this Elonex Webbook is and just jumps to the conclusion that linux is to blame.
- vyhd, on 11/14/2008, -1/+10Therein lies the rub. You're familiar with Macs because you used them, I'm familiar with Windows XP and Ubuntu Linux because I've used them. The trick is to use them, which I'm not convinced the people in this article do before they decide to return them.
- Stonekeeper, on 11/14/2008, -0/+9I never understand this argument. I mean, do all these people read the entire manuals when they purchase new phones? really? Is it that hard to adapt?
- LANjackal, on 11/14/2008, -9/+17I don't know where you're from dude, but 20% return rate is horrific. That means you're effectively leaving 20% of your potential sales revenue - and 25% of your net sales - on the table. If the whole netbook concept were a traded company, it's stock would be underwater.
- Georgy, on 11/14/2008, -19/+27It's simple, whatever the geeks tell you, Linux is just not for normal users
Windows and OSX is much more suited more the mainstream audience... - Aeuta, on 11/14/2008, -4/+12As I can say with certainity even though I love Linux and have used Ubuntu full time for over the last year that netbook versions of Linux suck! You can never do any of the things you expect to be easy on a modern distro without a head ache. But maybe that is just Acer's version of netbook Linux...I can't speak for the rest...
- ethana2, on 11/14/2008, -8/+16My mom is getting along with her new Ubuntu Dell wonderfully.
- inactive, on 11/14/2008, -2/+10Bush still has 20% approval rating.
i.e. at least 20% of the American population is brain dead. - molotovcat, on 11/14/2008, -3/+11Great way to post a hilariously narrow-minded comment, Zaphrod.
Please go back to powering your goped with sunflower farts while we use our computers for useful things. - Sokkratez, on 11/14/2008, -2/+10Agreed. Elitist Linux users are their OS' own worst enemy.
- arizonagroove, on 11/14/2008, -0/+8That the machines don't ship with Skype installed is a decision Acer made. Blame Acer not 'Linux' for that.
Netbooks with Windows XP on work just like a regular Windows XP install. Netbooks with Linux on tend to ship with manufacture specific customised versions of Linux and not work the same as if you were to install Linux on yourself on your PC.
The Linux that ships on the Aspire One uses an Interface that has been customised by Acer specifically for their machine. You are buying something which is intended to operate like an appliance rather than 'regular' Linux like you'd get by installing a copy of Ubuntu or openSUSE. It is not designed with a view to people adding extra applications. Hence installation Skpye and getting the icon in to the application list takes more work than it would on say Ubuntu or openSUSE where it would be a lot easier than the guide you link to. - pHr34kY, on 11/14/2008, -0/+7I have an Aspire One
Aspire One + Ubuntu 8.10 = Win
I tried the OS that is shipped with. It was a big box of fail. Probably would have returned it if I was as ignorant as the average user. I actually purchased it to help out with the Ubuntu Community and get it working. Once we get it working, Canonical will have be in a better position to convince Acer to ship with them.
...although they'll need to ship with a custom (lightweight) kernel. Mem usage and boot times are a little high. - dcherryholmes, on 11/14/2008, -0/+7Apparently 8 of 10 "average Joes" liked it just fine. Is there work to be done? Sure. But I don't think it's logical to say that the entire 20% of returns boil down to "linux sucks more than you think it does." Some fraction, sure. But that's still not bad, considering just how resistant people are to learning new things in general.
- slvrbullet87, on 11/14/2008, -1/+8The idea here is that people buying them dont understand linux. People see cheap stuff and buy it. Although i dont have a linux pc right now i have always liked Ubuntu, i have ran it in the past on an old desk top (HD died). I do know that most people dont want to put the work into tweeking programs to do what they want to do.
- buggu, on 11/14/2008, -1/+8"The failure of the Linux Netbook is that there is no on-screen documentation/tutorial on first boot-up. "
I doubt that's the case. Linux Netbooks features very simple, dumbed down interfaces as it is. Even with on-screen documentation, the mainstream consumer needs familiar applications and the way things work with their desktop OS (which is mostly likely Windows XP). In reality, the success of as Linux in the netbook market is really no different than it on the desktop - it's major barrier preventing mainstream adoption is popular proprietary apps. - daengbo, on 11/14/2008, -1/+8Let's look at the numbers, shall we? In Britain (where the story is from), netbooks make up approximately 30% of all computer sales right now. Sales figures aren't available for everyone, but the word from various executives is that it's a 70/30 split on OSes. 9% of all computer sales in Britain are then Linux. With a 20% return rate (MSI claimed a high return rate, too), that's 7.2% of all computers being sold with Linux in Britain.
- addzero, on 11/14/2008, -2/+9Yes, this title and description of this article is crap. This 20% return rate is with one obscure brand netbook at one retailer.
- oobuntu, on 11/14/2008, -1/+8return rate with windows was 20% too.
- Chris_F, on 11/14/2008, -5/+12Most people don't even really know how to do anything in windows. They don't have to re-learn if they never learned in the first place, stupid consumers.
- covertbadger, on 11/14/2008, -2/+8"Elitist Linux users are their OS' own worst enemy."
You're assuming that all linux users actually WANT the system to be mainstream. I couldn't care less, to be honest. I use xmonad on my dev workstation and it absolutely flummoxes anyone else that tries to use it, but since I'm massively more productive in that environment I'm keeping it. If other people think it's weird and impenetrable, that's not my problem. - dig1x, on 11/14/2008, -2/+8Try using Windows Movie Maker and tell us that there "are like 10 of them..".
There are ZERO of them that work as well, and as simply as WMM. - bitterchick, on 11/14/2008, -0/+6A gadget that looks like a laptop only smaller, that is less capable than a regular laptop.
Comes with linux preinstalled, but in a flavor that even linux geeks don't like.
A store called "Carphone Warehouse".
Is it ever *not* an example of this:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39327 - oobuntu, on 11/14/2008, -0/+6In other news, 20% of the UK public watch Eastenders and read the Sun "newspaper"
- bluechild, on 11/14/2008, -1/+7Sure!
Windows :
1. Open browser.
2. Google "Software X".
3. Find nothing.
4. Visit various torrent sites.
5. Download software with virus, or fake, or no crack, or not working.
6. Goto 4.
7. Click on installer.
8. Next -> Agree -> Next -> Type of installation -> Next -> Next -> Next -> OK and whatever :P
9. Find out the program is shareware and does not let you do "important action X".
10. Goto 4.
11. Ah! You found what you were looking for !
Linux:
1. Goto package manager.
2. Search for wanted program or key words.
3. Press install button.
4. Voila !
Windows is easier obviously. - daengbo, on 11/14/2008, -0/+6"We are making big efforts to educate consumers as to the usages and limitations of netbooks versus laptops. Netbooks are perfect for people who want to keep in touch, surf the net or read documents while on the move," said DSG's Head of Consumer PR Anina Castle
The important thing is that the customers of Carphone Warehouse (the story's retailer) don't know what they're getting before they buy. I'd be upset, too, if I expected one thing, opened the box and got another.
Make sure customers get to try one out before buying. Ler them know that it's an appliance like your Tivo -- you're not going to be installing stuff or changing it up unless you're a techie. Make sure they know the limitations of computing power, too.
The article says "You get what you pay for," which I agree with, but which carries a lot of negative connotations that I think are undeserved here because no one is being fleeced. I'd rather say "Know what you're getting before you buy." - Stonekeeper, on 11/14/2008, -0/+5Well it didn't stop XBOX 360 sales.....
- HonoredMule, on 11/14/2008, -0/+5Linpus on the Aspire One was very well polished and professional looking...and completely useless. I tried Ubuntu's MID instead, and discovered that while it was more functional, the only time such a clumsy over-simplified interface would be good is on the tiniest of cellphone screens.
Now I'm using a full version of Ibex with a single panel on the bottom and the task list replaced with a backgroundless AWN on top of that,* and a slightly more compact window decoration than default. I find it works very nicely this way as a full-blown OS, and for this hardware form factor and screen size, better than the Windows setup I generally prefer.
I imagine far fewer people would be unhappy with Linux on netbooks if manufacturers/distros weren't treating netbooks like a glorified TV remote with a bigger screen.
* tip: if you want to do a setup like that, you'll need devil's pie to keep the dock over the panel, and video will have to render as X11 video with alternate fullscreen method to cover the dock--alternate OpenGL fullscreen also works, but prevents ANYTHING from rendering over video even out of fullscreen.
I chose this setup because docks don't scale well and I find panels are just much better at some things, like the calendar/clock and fast user switcher applet...but having launchers on the panel plus a tasklist on a narrow screen doesn't scale well either (nor 2 panels on a short screen), and some of AWN's applets are nicer than panel versions as well (particularly the weather applet and desktop switcher--I wanted to praise the File Browser Launcher also, but sadly it has major issues with custom bookmark names and smb: bookmarks). - inactive, on 11/14/2008, -2/+7Just like herpes, spyware and viruses
- paulsmith288, on 11/14/2008, -3/+8It seemed ready for 80% of them.
- fxu1989, on 11/14/2008, -1/+6I would've dugg you up till your last sentence.
Overused stupid remarks that it's not even true for most if they know how to use a computer without messing it up. - addzero, on 11/14/2008, -1/+6This 20% return rate is with one obscure brand netbook at one store.
How did this article become news? Oh that's right, they made a sensationalist title, then people don't read the article.
Then yes, people spread around this "20%" figure that's not representative of the whole market, and it could damage the market. sad. -
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