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- Waterrat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+136 That's what I'm talkin' about!
Work together people! - andyrobo60, on 10/12/2007, -4/+77This is all part of a joint compiz/beryl conspiracy to avoid a 1.0.0 release. By merging they can both go back to 0.0.1 or something like that.
- jsully, on 10/12/2007, -0/+55Agreed - this is fantastic news for everyone - the Compiz team, the Beryl team, and end users everywhere. It's refreshing to see Open Source development working properly, and I applaud both sides for coming to this agreement.
- NX910a, on 10/12/2007, -3/+32I hope the relationship between Beryl and Compiz doesn't start to wobble again after the merger
- KevinJim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+27yet again, i'd love to see some really cool stuff from the re-merge
- KevinJim, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26I'm totaly with you. BUT only if Novell don't have a word ! IF they do
"and of course we reserve the right to re-fork"
as the letter says. - benplaut, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25@fulldecent:
And if you're going to insult someone for spelling insult wrong in an insult to someone insulting someone, at least check if they actually spelled it correctly in the first place! - coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20"Like an easier way to install it."
That's not up to the Beryl/Compiz devs, It's up to the distro's. And it's supposed to be incredibly easy to enable in Ubuntu Feisty. The command is sudo desktop-effects enable and there is supposed to be a GUI interface for it too, And a simple GUI for enabling 3D drivers. - jexdawg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18kind of a misleading title. no merge is actually planned, just that beryl devs are willing to do it. =/
hope for the best. - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22They already have. There was some collaboration (vandalism of Beryl's Web site aside).
- jackhole, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19@coniferous, it was because beryl devs were frustrated with the time it took for the Right Way(tm) approach of compiz to implement features that plugin authors needed to do cool things. compiz has been devoted to stabilizing the core and contributing needed code upstream to X, both of which are slower than feverishly coding functionality hacks and feature plugins. Many of the original patches that went into beryl were originally rejected by compiz as being (1) sloppy, unstable code and (2) being the Wrong Way (tm) of doing things, mainly because they were features more logically suited for inclusion in X or graphics drivers.
beryl does have several advantages over compiz, the most important of which is independence from the gnome desktop. beryl is currently the best choice for users who run only KDE or other "alternative" desktops like XFCE or fluxbox because it doesn't pull in a bunch of gnome stuff. beryl also has a bevy of plugins, but I don't know whether it will take substantial rewriting for them to work with the more conservative compiz core. - WestDC, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19@dacheetah
If you're going to try to insult someone for spelling a famous physicist's name wrong, at least spell physicist right ;) . - CircleFusion, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Two different types of mergers. One is merging of development teams. The other is a merging of businesses.
I also don't think that corporate mergers are always bad. It depends on the merger. - dacheetah, on 10/12/2007, -7/+21@Schrodinger:
> OMG SPINNING CUBES!!!
> get lives linux people.
This coming from someone who spends their time finding threads about something they think is lame and insulting such people. If you don't like it, just move on.
(And if you are going to try to assume the identity of a famous physisist, at least spell their name right, Schrödinger has an accent on the ö for a reason.) - sukimashita, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15@jackhole: Actually this is not correct. Compiz can be compiled without GNOME dependencies at all. It has gconf, but aswell dbus, ini (flat files) and fuse fs configuration plugins. On the other hand, Beryl including a lot of it's configuration applications and decorators use GNOME functionality and require those libs.
- idonthack, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14ow my brain
- bieber, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13But apparently unnecessary. Unless there are two real differing ideas on where the project should go, everyone may as well work together. When there's some really big argument as to whether it should go this way or that, _then_ they can refork it, and we can watch competition do its thing.
- manitoba98xp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12@Jasonquinn
There was incredible redundancy. Also, the need to choose between two excellent packages was annoying. Also, Compiz could not incorporate changes in the Beryl tree, whereas Beryl could do the reverse (licensing issues). So by merging, the improvements on either side benefit everyone. Competition is important in the corporate world, where businesses put in only enough effort to sell. Open-source, in addition to competition from commercial products, also doesn't fall to this flaw, as many developers put in effort not to make money, but to improve. Different motivation = different work ethic. I think that, within open source, competition makes sense only when there is a clear distinction that cannot be made in one product (KDE, GNOME, Xfce, Enlightenment, Fluxbox, et al, for instance, are so different that merging them and satisfying all users would be impossible. Compiz/Beryl does not face this issue).
What I want to know is, what will the new one be called? Compiz, as it originally was, or Beryl, which has received much of the hype recently?
Addendum: Sorta beaten by bieber, but I still want to add my own thoughts. - strabes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Competition in open source software doesn't work like it does in capitalism.
- strabes, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9@flag564: sudo apt-get install beryl emerald emerald-themes
It can't get much easier than that if you have an nvidia card or ati card that supports the open source driver. If you have to use XGL then it gets a bit complicated/buggy. - troydoogle7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I like to see the merger go through... with more talented people working together, the result could only be better.. I just hope that egos don't cause any problems.... Make it work guys (and gals)
- MeneerR, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Gnome and KDE are like two sisters. They don't want to be alike. So they each make their own mistake.
KDE is completely customizeable (good thing), but forces you to do so by having horrible defauilts (bad thing).
GNOME is not very customizeable (bad thing), but has great defaults (good thing).
The first time I saw an alignment toolbar button in a kopete chat window I removed KDE.
I have no time or interest to tweak every program to something sane.
I like being able to add such a button, it should just not be there by default.
Nobody will ever use it. Its ridiculus.
Oh, and why are so few KDE-platforms shipping with skins that aren't ugly?
Ugly is bad default setting as well. Esspecially Plastik and Keramik. Why even install that crap.
Then again, I really wish Gnome had KDE level configuration possibilities. I want to be able to turn a mac menubar on.
The gnome devs aren't even accepting patches to make it possible to turn that on in gnome using your gtkrc.
If I could hit them with a stick for stuff like that, I would.
Perhaps the KDE people can fork gnome? They seem like more reasonable people than the gnome dev's and GTK really is the better themable, better looking, better working toolkit. If the KDE devs fork gnome and add kde-level customizeability without changing the defaults, everybody would be using that. - lupine85, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8On the contrary, Beryl just finished putting 0.2 into Feisty, and binary packages are entering the repositories as we speak (beryl-core is in, we're waiting on -plugins and -settings-bindings last I checked).
The merge is happening because both Beryl and Compiz have similar ideas about what's coming up for the future of the composited desktop, and most of the devs on both sides have come to the conclusion that we can work with each other. Whether that's the case or not will become clear in the near- to mid-term, I suppose.
/Nick - Coniferous, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11Wow, this is good news.
Does anyone know what the reasoning for the fork was in the first place? - YojimboJango, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Giant corperations have the goal to get as much money out of people as they can. Linux has the goal of giving as much free stuff away to people as they can.
When MegaCompanyX buys out MegaCompanyY it's normally because Y is offering services at a price X can't beat. So they buy company Y and remove their services from the market.
When a OpenSourceTeamX joins with OpenSourceTeamY it's normally because they have a lot of work to get done and they produce a better service. They're not motivated by making money (as everything is obviously free) so they get together to make the best product they can. - StealthTomato, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Beryl has better eyecandy/functionality, but is far less stable.
Compiz is a bit less extensive in its effects, but is MUCH more stable.
At least, in my experience. - stoffe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It's about time. While Beryl has served to show what can be done, it has always relied on dirty hacks and workarounds that, frankly, has no future. By remerging with the Compiz project, there could be incredible bling on the Linux desktop with a stable foundation. I have a lot of understanding for why it was forked at the time it happened, but in the long run, this should be done the right way IMO.
My respect for the Beryl devs is greatly increased by this.
Now I hope that they can bring Beryl effects with Compiz sanity to the configuration... :) - eizooo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5this is such a good example for gnome and kde
- coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I just hope they merge the good stuff into Compiz, like the latest Beryl Settings Manager and the lack of Gnome dependencies. (Sorry Gnome guys, but I use KDE and don't particularly like having an unused copy of Gnome lying around).
- noseeme, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6No one asked for your hardware config, tool.
- jackhole, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8also to suki, I'd like to add that of beryl's three window decorators, only heliodor pulls in gnome stuff. All the rest (aquamarine, emerald, the settings manager) seems to only use gtk and gconf.
- Skeithy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I would love for them to merge, but would it even work? Compiz would have to suffer some idealogical setbacks since dual licensing and removing gnome dependency's would be paramount for beryl. In fact Compiz would be the only party to suffer out of this. But the two projects combined efforts would really improve compositing window managers.
This would be a wonderful event, since normally forks don't turn out so friendly, - lowerlogic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4On the topic of Beryl and Compiz, what are the main differences between them?
- flag564, on 10/12/2007, -14/+17Like an easier way to install it.
- AM088, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Not much. Beryl has more options which the Compiz people did not want to add (that's why they forked)
- Coniferous, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Just because they weren't included in the release doesn't mean they were "beat" by any means, both compiz and beryl are incredibly good at what they do. Just one is more stable then the other.
I don't think the beryl crew ever intended to beat the other package in terms of pure users, they just had a different direction they wanted to take the program in. - manitoba98xp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@myself
Whoops, missed that detail. I think choosing a third name would be a mistake, we need to pick a name that we can make well-known, and STICK WITH IT! I'm in favour of the name Compiz. I like it, personally, and I think it's more logical to use the name of the parent project. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The way to go!
- YourDoom123, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@manito
if you read some of the other threads, the most popular name idea is coral. - coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@mandeep
Well I think it benefits both experienced Linux users and new Linux users. The experienced users can still use the shell while new users can have access to similar abilities via GUI tools while they are learning the shell, or in some cases, they won't need to. From what I've been reading, Feisty allows just that. - sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"also to suki, I'd like to add that of beryl's three window decorators, only heliodor pulls in gnome stuff. All the rest (aquamarine, emerald, the settings manager) seems to only use gtk and gconf."
They both seem to pull in Gnome stuff. When trying Beryl .2 in Mepis (a distro that uses KDE as the default desktop) when trying to select an image for the skydome, I was greeted with a very Gnomish file chooser. - Rowan187, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4As a user of both Compiz (OpenSuSE) and Beryl (Ubuntu). I'm proud to see this finally happen :) +1 points for linux
- VVho, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3To clear some things up:
Novell had nothing to do with teh fork, and Novell will probably have nothing to do with any re-merge that happens - compiz is a freedesktop project but is lead-developed by David Reveman.
My analysis of this is that the Beryl team have realised that to be much more than a hobbyist/early adopters testbed (I.E get included in major distros) their aims would become so similar to those of Compiz that there would be no point in any separation... The original fork happened because there were lots of interesting, unstable (to the point of violence) things that people wanted to try - but they didn't get into main compiz (because main compiz wanted to be in distros - David R wanted it to be robust and elegant, NOT because there was animosity to the community...). Beryl was created to accommodate these interesting things - it gained popularity, and so eventually it wanted to be in distros - which meant stabilising and cleaning up. I.E looking more like compiz, hence the POTENTIAL re-merge. I think the continued development of the core, not just plugins, and things like input redirection by David Reveman also helped the move back towards compiz.
Note - the compiz folks haven't confirmed this - I'd guess there's more discussion yet! (like a name change - seems unlikely to me... :S) - jadeshade, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1there was work being done on a qt interface using python, but I don't know how that's working out
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2They cannot have Beryl or Compiz in as default yet. Java still does not render properly with direct rendering not showing up at all (just get a blank rectangle). Videos still do not play properly in full screen mode. I understand that the NVidia driver hacks around much of this but that is specific to those cards. We need to get the technology working properly before we turn it on everywhere. Imagine how much we'd all jump on MS's back if they released Aero unable to play videos or render Java. Let's get it right, it isn't far off and it's not worth the negative PR of pushing experimental technology.
- poofyhairguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The differences between Compiz and Beryl are mostly pluggins that can be moved over to Compiz pretty easily. As long as there is some way to get the more "hackish" but popular pluggins easily with Compiz and the many theme engines (Emerald) move forward then life will be good for the Linux desktop. I smell some meta-packages being made somewhere. The Beryl fork was great because it got some great ideas off people's brains and on some board and proved that the openness of the Linux+Xorg desktop brings forth great eye candy once the framework is there!
This is a wakeup call to one group more than any though- the Gnome people. As of right now this basically unites the Composite Manager Movement outside of what KDE is doing. It is now obvious that Gnome 3 must be the Gnome where composite is assumed- THAT is the reason for ThreePointZero that they have been waiting for. In the future this new Compiz will replace metacity as Gnome's default window manager (as almost every important Metacity developer works on Compiz instead now) and just like in Vista, OSX, and KDE4 it will be able to give applications a modern platform to run on. - bieber, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I have a feeling this may have something to do with the Ubuntu choice to go with Compiz. Beryl missed the possibility of being included with the most popular desktop distro, which isn't going to be good for the size of their userbase. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!
- mfichifichi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Where is rasterman, why did he abandon us? He would know what to do...
- patpi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It is worth to read this ->
http://forum.go-compiz.org/viewtopic.php?p=5618#5618
The code of beryl is actualy merged into compiz... Beryl is now onle empty public relations case. Beryl people won't merge anything into compiz becouse it is actualy there! - Xenogis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Rasterman is busy making effects for E17 that don't require good hardware ;)
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