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- BigManOnCampus, on 06/20/2008, -8/+78And here is the fundamental problem, illustrated...
He spends his entire review praising ubuntu for being slick and easy to use, with some websites/webapps lacking support, and then he concludes with...
"For me, as a day to day operating system, would I churn from Windows or MacOS for it? Not yet; perhaps in a year or two."
wtf? You just related a glowing experience that you would have every day, with no viruses or malware to worry about, no gradual slowdowns, better security, and it was all free; and you say, "No, I won't switch yet."
???? People really are afraid of change apparently. - inactive, on 06/20/2008, -1/+32Sounds like it's time to switch banks. Why exactly would a bank WEBSITE specifically not allow Linux? I thought that was the point of having stuff on the web, because it doesn't matter what OS you're using or what software is on your PC, etc. I would worry about the quality of the bank's site and whether it's secure if they start making such non-tech savvy moves.
- sirhomer, on 06/20/2008, -1/+25It didn't work with his webcam and bank. That's fairly serious problems, even though they may not be directly the fault of Ubuntu.
Virtualization is a good compromise if you enjoy using Linux but still require Windows. Technology which may make even computer illiterates comptent enough to set virtualization up is forthcoming. - popey, on 06/20/2008, -1/+24Of course banks that refuse to allow access from IE/Windows are bad, and the user agent switcher plugin for firefox is one way around it. However the absolute best thing we can do is tell these companies that they are blocking their own customers. Failing that, put your money where your mouth is and leave. Personally I use the Abbey in the UK and their personal and business banking sites work just fine in Firefox on Ubuntu.
- Tyr7BE, on 06/20/2008, -2/+24More the fault of the bank than anything. I'm with several banks and they all work just fine in FF on Linux. No reason to be requiring IE.
- PriceChild, on 06/20/2008, -0/+21Change is bad yes...
...but just think about what he would have said about things 1..2...3 years ago? Things are getting ridiculously better :) - BigManOnCampus, on 06/20/2008, -3/+23His bank not working sounds ridiculous. I've never heard of a bank not working with a good browser/ssl and some special verification questions. Every bank I've used online banking with works this way. Sounds like he has an unusual bank in this regards. Cayman?
I've also never had a problem with webcams not working and I've thrown some very generic $5 webcams on ubuntu. If his webcam isn't working, it's nearly trivial to get one that does. - zeiben, on 06/20/2008, -7/+25It's puerile, but it has to be said: Ashley is a girl's name.
- krc1, on 06/20/2008, -0/+16"Not everyone is a computer geek."
Mr. Highfield's qualifications:
"...my serious coding days ended with Oracle some 14 years ago."
"Director, BBC Future Media & Technology"
I couldn't get hello world to print in VB and am basically one step above your typical computer moron, but I got various flavors of Linux to work and switched over from Windows permanently. - Vadi0, on 06/20/2008, -0/+15His bank refuses to work for one, heh.
Although using a firefox addon to change the user agent would easily trick that. - aliguana, on 06/20/2008, -0/+12He works for the BBC. As such he has to work with Microsoft technology, Microsoft Office, Windows Media etc. Even if he did switch to Linux, he'd have to dualboot for work. That is his hesitation I think. Incompatibility. Of course, that isn't Linux's fault, it's the BBC's fault. If BBC people want to switch to Linux, it's up to them to make the organisation more OSS friendly.
- mcmlxxii, on 06/20/2008, -0/+11You're right, but the sad thing is that these same people had to learn how to use Windows. If they were prepared to put in the same effort to learning GNOME/KDE on Linux, they'd have it licked in no time.
I remember having a hellish time with some hardware drivers in Windows too, but the normal answer when your driver doesn't work in Windows is to buy a new peripheral. At least in Linux you have the option to research driver availability. - mk3k, on 06/20/2008, -3/+13People don't want to research that stuff. They want it to work.
- Monk22, on 06/20/2008, -1/+9"His bank not working sounds ridiculous."
regardless, if it doesnt work then it doesnt work. and my webcam which is built into my laptop does not work in ubuntu. - UKsHaDoW, on 06/20/2008, -0/+8You can always get your browser to pretend to be running on windows.
- brettalton, on 06/20/2008, -0/+7I'm fairly happy with this article.
I've been setting up and fixing computers for almost 10 years and whether it's Linux or Windows, people always need help setting up drivers and what not. If a nerd is available, they'll use you. My ass Windows "just works". Sometimes their webcam won't work, sometimes their printer won't work, sometimes their 'computer' breaks only for me to find that the left-click on the mouse died but more than likely they or their "son" viewed porn and now its all buggered up.
All sorts of people have different backgrounds with Windows too: Some go into C:/Windows and mess around with .dlls, some people delete programs by deleting it in C:/Program Files while the rest give the computer to me and say "its making noises!"
When I get a computer however and show them the benefit of Ubuntu and open-source, they immediately want to switch. So, I back up their data, wipe the computer, put Ubuntu on a 10GB root partition (/) and the rest goes to /home. Then, I call them up 1 week after, 3 months after and 6 months after to hear how they're doing. I've only had one person ask me to put them back on Vista. Why? She wants iTunes because it auto-fills her song names and doesn't want to use Rhythmbox/Sound Juicer to do the same thing.
Some will switch, some won't, but not supporting Linux on a website is absolutely ridicously. I'd be happy with Linux at a 5% market share on the desktop. 70% is great for servers but 1% is absolutely ridiculous for the desktop. - wellyuk, on 06/20/2008, -0/+7I've found with a number of bank websites (for online banking as opposed to their brochureware front end), the developers tend to script for platforms/browsers as opposed to browser capabilities. For instance, although it's since been updated, my old bank, the Nat West Bank (of Fascist Thieving Bastards), Safari wouldn't work on it nor would Opera, but strangely enough Camino wouldn't work on it, even though Camino uses/used the same javascript/html rendering engine as Firefox did. And Firefox worked on the site. So the developers were obviously checking for IE6/7 and Firefox (2 at the time) on Mac/PC as opposed to this browser is capable of doing x, y, z so we'll let them in.
- PhailQuail, on 06/20/2008, -0/+7"JUST WORKS" after installing drivers, on Linux these things usually work out-of-the-box.
So how is installing ndiswrapper on Linux any different to installing drivers on Windows? - BigManOnCampus, on 06/20/2008, -1/+7I just got an Ipod, and I haven't had a single problem using it in Ubuntu/Amarok. My ipod has *never* been connected to an itunes setup, and it works fine.
Edit: Actually, I lied, I do have a problem with the ipod, but it's in the ipod software, not linux. I want to be able to play a genre on shuffle, but it won't allow that, which is the dumbest feature to leave out that I've ever heard. Syncing and setting up playlists on the ipod has been issue free for me. My cover flow isn't broken, but I don't put videos/podcasts on it. - mossblaser, on 06/20/2008, -0/+6I can appreciate his problems but him saying "I appreciate a lot of drivers are preinstalled, but I'm starting to feel that perhaps the Linux OS is not aimed at my kind of usage" implies that it is linux's intention to not provide drivers and that it could do if it wanted to. This not the case and this is the source of a lot of undue bad press.
- brettalton, on 06/20/2008, -0/+6No, the reason why websites not working on certain platforms or browsers is ridiculous is because if you take a file that has (psuedo html: html - head - title - "Hello World!" - /title - /head - body - h1 - "Hello World!" - /h1 - /body - /html) and run it on any browser, even as far back as a 1993 web browser and they will all display uniformly.
Now, as a web developer, I have never seen or needed ANY technology that prohibited a user from using my websites. If the browser can view text and fill out forms (think Lynx) then that's all you need to use. - popey, on 06/20/2008, -0/+5One step above a moron and you run Linux. Not sure what that says actually :)
- YodaJones, on 06/20/2008, -0/+5People are sheep who follow the crowd, doing whatever the majority does. Besides gamers, and a lot of games work now with the latest Wine, there is no real reason to stay on Windows. Almost every aspect of computing is better on Linux, and specifically Ubuntu. Even most of the applications are better.
- tripzero, on 06/20/2008, -0/+5I'm a programmer by trade and I can't even get "hello world" to print in VB (nor would I ever want to spend the 3seconds to learn how).
what I don't understand is why some companies refuse to do things right. If you develop a web application correctly, it will run on all platforms regardless of OS. Heck, there's no reason why you couldn't even build a .NET application and have it run on all platforms.
heh, but i'm not a businessman so what do I know? - Tony6785, on 06/20/2008, -3/+8Actually, I think this is the real problem:
"(or my lack of time to invest in getting it all set up right)."
Windows works, people know how it works, and generally know how to hit it to get it to do what they want. They may have the time to learn Linux, but they likely want to spend it doing other things. Not everyone is a computer geek.
//will use Sabayon over Vista or XP any day - mdwstmusik, on 06/20/2008, -1/+6"Good iPod support"
I too use Ubuntu/Amarok with my Ipod, and have never had a problem. IMHO, Amarok is the best audio player/management application available on any platform.
"Avisynth for Linux"
http://avisynth3.unite-video.com/
"Netflix Watch-It-Now support"
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=719778
This is the best I could do. - trueshadow21, on 06/21/2008, -1/+5Everything in BigManOnCampus's post is true, and I have more to add about codecs
I installed the latest release of Ubuntu on my laptop, and when I wen't to watch a video, it told me it didn't have the codec, and at the same time it opened up the software repository and found the codec, and gave me the option to download and install it right there and within a minute my video was playing. I WANT TO SEE WINDOWS DO THAT! sry about the caps, I just felt an ! wouldn't cut it alone... - cgruber, on 06/21/2008, -0/+4That doesn't fix website that rely on ActiveX, but yes it does resolve some of them.
- laelfrog, on 06/21/2008, -0/+4"Ashley was originally used for male children, but it gained popularity as a female first name in the United States in the late 20th century"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_(name) - peestandingup, on 06/20/2008, -4/+8Just being slick & easy to use isn't enough to be your main OS. There's software availability, codecs, compatibility with your digital products, support, etc. I wish Linux users could understand that.
It is getting better, but say what you want. Linux is still a geek's OS. Now digg me down, Linux Nazi's like I know you will. - jcronkhite, on 06/21/2008, -0/+4I agree with you on all accounts with the exception of the webcam. The author mentions an HP laptop. That likely has the built-in webcam and microphone. Linux works great on HP laptops in my experience, but the webcam lacks real driver support even in the community (at least as of a few months ago when I last tried it myself). That's temporary though I'm sure.
What pisses me off is any website, bank or other, detecting my OS and deciding I am not allowed to use their site based on the result. This is COMPLETELY unacceptable and in my opinion irresponsible. They've essentially done more work (even if it is a simple detection in JavaScript, etc.) to prevent access. This also happens on ABC.com (see http://happylinuxthoughts.blogspot.com/2007/11/abc ... Lame. - MattBD, on 06/20/2008, -0/+4Have you tried using ndiswrapper to get the Windows drivers working. It's not too hard if you use the ndisgtk frontend.
- trueshadow21, on 06/21/2008, -0/+4All you need to fix the bank not working is to get the user agent switcher for FireFox and change the platform, or you could do it without the plug-in, its just simpler with it.
- dsmx, on 06/20/2008, -2/+5Ubuntu wont work with my wireless pci card for some reason so I can't really switch to it either.
- Monk22, on 06/20/2008, -0/+3my roommate plugged his ipod into my linux box using amarok. it sucessfully wiped all cover art from his tags.
- AzureRise, on 06/20/2008, -0/+3Yesterday I connected my iPod to my laptop to get a file I needed and Rhythmbox instantly opened and I was able to listen to all the music on my iPod. I was surprised. There was even an iPod icon on my desktop labeled iPod. I've since used my iPod and experienced no problems whatsoever. I've also heard Amarok has iPod support.
As for Avisynth, it's OpenSource under the GPL license so it's not out of the question for someone to port it over to Linux.
Lastly Netflix, I'm not too familiar with their service, so I can't say much about it. But if it's a streaming service, there's no real reason for it not to work in Linux except for pointless DRM. - aliguana, on 06/21/2008, -1/+4see, if we were talking about Vista, and someone suggested "buy a new one" there would be uproar. Why is it acceptable in Linux? A: It isn't. if linux wants to be a mainstream OS, it has to support whatever you throw at it.
- brettalton, on 06/20/2008, -0/+3What card is it?
- MattBD, on 06/20/2008, -0/+3My iPod has always worked fine with Amarok in Kubuntu.
- Spr0k3t, on 06/21/2008, -0/+3It would be nice if he published which bank it was. I know I don't want to bank there, whereeveritis.
- evilneuro, on 06/21/2008, -0/+3Just to clarify, Highfield is no longer at the BBC, he is now (and has been since April 2008) CEO of Kangaroo, the joint venture between the BBC, ITV and C4 to deliver IP VoD: http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/bbcworldwide/worl ...
- IllBeBack, on 06/20/2008, -4/+7Your argument sucks.
- MattBD, on 06/20/2008, -0/+3No it isn't. Ndisgtk is easy to use. And I was just offering help seeing as dsmx clearly would like to give it a go - why should they be forced to use Windows? And more things "just work" in Linux than Windows, and more and more hardware is supported all the time.
- reclusivemonkey, on 06/21/2008, -0/+3Pity no one told him he could have used f-Spot to import his photos and then upload them directly to flickr...
- BigManOnCampus, on 06/21/2008, -0/+2"So how many of those free apps are actually quality apps??"
Christ, I could legitimately ask the same of MS Office. Show me perfect software anywhere and I'll show you a real fanboy.
"Not many at all & you know it."
No, I know the opposite is true. I would ask you to try Ubuntu's media edition for a week and then come and tell me there aren't "decent" multimedia apps for linux.
"Im curious, did DVDs or other common media play outta the box? No they didnt."
Yes, they do.
"There are more digital products than iPod."
Indeed, and I haven't run into many save some bleeding-edge-new-chipset PCI NIC's that don't work.
"And having people rely on forums for any kind of support isnt an option for many many people."
Really? You sound like someone who's never used them. - popey, on 06/20/2008, -0/+2Agreed, but many people had no choice "back in the day", they _had_ to learn Windows or nothing. Now we've all had a chance to learn windows to a greater or lesser degree, _anything_ new is alien. I've used Windows since the early crappy dos versions, and Linux since about 5 years ago, and I felt out of my depth on a Mac recently. It's all about what you're used to.
- Avian00, on 06/23/2008, -0/+2While I agree with you in principle, I think the real issue is the small handful of applications he depends on to do his job (I.E. Microsoft Office or Adobe Apps). My impression is he would make the complete switch if he could break free of his dependency on those apps.
- santasing, on 06/20/2008, -0/+2You think we can use you for our commercials.
- Durex PR - flashingcurser, on 06/23/2008, -0/+2Is it just me? or does requiring activex for a banking website seem like a bad idea.
- Dayimproper, on 06/22/2008, -0/+2My bank used to not support FF or Opera, I called their tech support and a month later they called me back. Now it does work with FF and Opera. Although I highly doubt it was only because of me . Banks are starting to take notice to the fact that people are using other OSs browsers.
P.S
My bank is fairly small might be one more reason for them to support all users, there never seems to be a line when I go there... -
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