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An Open Letter For Open Drivers To NVIDIA

opentheblob.com — AMD and Intel both now support open-source video drivers and release their programming specifications to the OSS community. Let's get NVIDIA to do this too!

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  • carro9, on 03/01/2008, -7/+119Fighting for the right of open-source? I am in!
    • BedPost, on 03/01/2008, -11/+4Dude, embrace the contraction.
      • gudnbluts, on 03/01/2008, -2/+3I've read the letter in the link. I don't think English is the opensource community's strong suit. e.g.

        "In a steadfast manner, we request knowing your true commitment to the GNU/Linux and open-source communities"

        heh heh heh.
        • srg13, on 03/01/2008, -0/+6It's possible that whoever wrote the letter was not a native English speaker
          • gudnbluts, on 03/01/2008, -2/+3I totally agree. And I would absolutely sign it, but I can't put my name to something so unprofessional. It's just embarrassing. The opensource community deserves better than this. Nvidia would just laugh at it. I mean

            " Even if you were only able to open a subset of your Linux driver, this still would show a sign of solidarity to the free software world."

            Drivers. Not driver. Somebody sort it out.
          • kamisama, on 03/01/2008, -0/+6Instead of bitching why not write a better version? Since your English skills are superior. I agree that it looks unprofessional, but at least the guy/girl who wrote it took initiative.
    • apzdsx, on 03/01/2008, -10/+8The 'right'? Get over yourself.

      Open source drivers would be wonderful, but we're certainly not entitled to them.
    • jabberwolf, on 03/02/2008, -3/+1Fighting to tell a company how to do business and write their code?
      Seems like they do a better job of it then you do.
      If you wish to fight it, don't buy their product or develop for them. Otherwise it doesnt really mean much.
  • baalzebub, on 03/01/2008, -46/+9i can open it by doing this:
    ./NVIDIA-Linux-x86-169.12.pkg1.run --extract
    • baalzebub, on 03/01/2008, -28/+3make that:
      ./NVIDIA-Linux-x86-169.12.pkg1.run --extract-only

      seems they changed it from the old versions...
    • GramarNatzi, on 03/01/2008, -1/+25Now if you could just reverse engineer the resulting modules... problem solved!
      • baalzebub, on 03/01/2008, -14/+1yeah, i know, it is not really source code, it just extracts the files...
    • Sammi84, on 03/01/2008, -1/+2211100011000101010111100001010000101000100100000101010010101010000111000011101011110100110000001001011001010001010111100010001001001110101010110100011110101011010110101110100010101101011101110001101010100100010110101111101010000001010010000000010100100001010000000000

      Who doesn't understand that?
      • santaliqueur, on 03/01/2008, -17/+3Unlike you, most of us DO understand his post.
      • schoate09, on 03/01/2008, -1/+9santaligueur, you fail.

        He was stating that about the most code you'll view from that package is binary, because they're binary drivers, not OPEN source.
      • Myztry, on 03/01/2008, -2/+1NEO is that you? Can you view the code of the matrix?
  • browner, on 03/01/2008, -5/+45It's their only hope of staying competitive in the eyes of the OSS community who now see open specifications from both Intel and AMD/ATI. Which product would you choose!?
    I can't imagine NVIDIA ignoring that. It's just a matter of time - maybe a few thousand signatures will speed things up.

    SIGN IT PEOPLE! :)
    • arw371, on 03/01/2008, -5/+8That really depends on whether they think the 'OSS community' is as big as you seem to think it is.
      • SHv2, on 03/01/2008, -14/+2Exactly. The OSS community is a vast minority and they have no reason to open up the drivers. If people want open drivers, write some yourself.
      • grumpyrain, on 03/01/2008, -0/+5Or more specifically, whether the OSS community intersects with NVidia's target market to the degree they hope it does. A large group with little intersection with the target market will be ignored. A small group containing a significant overlap will see results.

        But signatures do very little because it is not a native business tongue. Businesses speak the language of money. You tell NVidia you don't like the fact they refuse to open drivers by purchasing competing chipsets who do support open drivers.
      • tech42er, on 03/01/2008, -0/+5A year and a half ago, people were railing against AMD/ATI for not supporting the OS community. Funny how things change.
        • HonoredMule, on 03/01/2008, -0/+3A year and a half ago, people were railing against BOTH companies. Today, AMD has actually given us what we want.

          ATi's dissenters were just more prominent because the lack of open specs was accentuated by /really/ ***** closed source drivers.
    • posure, on 03/01/2008, -7/+2Staying competitive in the OSS community? What are they gonna do, buy a $300 video card to play Tux Racer or run Compiz Fusion?
      • Fergy, on 03/01/2008, -0/+6I run Windows most of the time and like games so I could either choose Ati or Nvidia for my next gpu. I also like to try out linux and I might switch over in the future. If Ati and Nvidia are equal on Windows then Linux support will make the difference for me. I would even take a slower card just to get a great experience in Linux.
      • srg13, on 03/01/2008, -0/+4Games are only a small part (for me at least) of what can be done with a high powered GPU and Linux
    • Kral, on 03/01/2008, -0/+7PC gamers are part of the enthusiast crowd that often has a dual boot GNU/Linux setup. Me, for example - I buy a $4k system every two years for gaming and GNU/Linux. Since ATI and NVidia performance is about equal for Windows gaming, the deciding factor for me has been Linux support. I used to always go NVidia due to their Linux drivers being much better than ATI's, but now that ATI is Open Sourcing their drivers, my next system will be ATI based.
      • Thefascist, on 03/01/2008, -1/+54k system?? are you nuts, if you're a gamer there's no reason for you to not build you're own for under a grand.
    • computershack, on 03/01/2008, -2/+0BWAHAHAHAHAaaaa..
      Like they give a stuff about the business they'll lose from people who don't play cutting edge games,don't upgrade their hardware at least once a year and probably form less than 100th of a percent of their user base...
  • gordmoo, on 03/01/2008, -3/+27with ATI's closed source drivers i recommended that people buy Nvidia/intel instead, now with ATI's closed source drivers being okay and the open specifications i find myself recommending ATI/Intel. There are problems with releasing the drivers as free/open-source software but at least give us some specifications :) it can't hurt!
    • geoken, on 03/01/2008, -13/+10Well then those people are probably ***** at you. I recently bought an ATI card for a new box I built and ended up pulling it and swapping it with a 7600gt I had in an older Window's box.

      The drivers may be open source but they still aren't as good as the nvidia drivers, and buying an ATI card will still result in a loss of functionality vs. an Nvidia card.
      • MikeSD34, on 03/01/2008, -2/+13They haven't had the specification very long, but I'll take some hardware acceleration on non 32-bit X86 over none.

        Fast easy to use binary drivers aren't satan incarnate if they're available for your platform, but that isn't always the case.
        • norman619, on 03/01/2008, -4/+10You are aware of the fact that ATI is nortorious for thier ***** drivers and apps right? They bunred me quite a few times which is why I refuse to buy anything ATI.
          • MikeSD34, on 03/01/2008, -2/+10I'm also aware that a crappy crashy video is better then NO video. I'm not saying they're a good company, just that open source drivers are a good thing even if you only facilitated them happening instead of preventing them from happening.
  • aldenhg, on 03/01/2008, -11/+55You know, my support for open drivers goes a lot farther when the drivers produced don't get the job done, as ATi's didn't until quite recently. Nvidia really takes care of its Linux customers and I've not once had a driver issue with any of my Nvidia hardware. I'm not saying it's bad to ask - I'm just saying we don't need to get our feathers ruffled over t.
    • mif86, on 03/01/2008, -5/+9Might be that they're better than ATI's old drivers, but I've had lots of problems with crashes and freezes caused by the NVIDIA drvers.
      • aldenhg, on 03/01/2008, -3/+4What hardware are you running? I've run 7 and 8 series GPUs with no problems whatsoever.
        • mif86, on 03/01/2008, -0/+16600 GT.
          My biggest problem has been the whole system freezing sometimes when opening more than one app using Xv or GL
          • aldenhg, on 03/01/2008, -0/+2If you're running a supported distribution, I would recommend reinstalling the drivers with Envy. It can take care of problems like that occasionally
        • SmEdD, on 03/01/2008, -2/+1I have had non-stop issues with the 8800GT, worse card I have ever owned. Every time the system locks up or black screens windows ends up blaming it on the drivers which are up to date.
          • aldenhg, on 03/01/2008, -1/+1We're talking about Linux here. Windows != Linux and your problems != anything I'll help with. Acutally, you should roll back to an earlier version or try the beta drivers.
      • KloroFormd, on 03/01/2008, -0/+1Never had crashes or freezes, but the black texture errors are annoying.
    • mmmiiikkkeee, on 03/01/2008, -2/+6I _have_ had problems with nvidia drivers. It was messing up my suspend/resume(among other problems). so for my sake you could ask for open specs??
  • jdhore1, on 03/01/2008, -11/+21I agree that this would be a great move and i did sign the petition, but nVidia not releasing their card specs doesn't bother me too much. The cards (hardware wise) are still much better than ATI or Intel (Except the new Intel GMA X4500) and the drivers are better as well so i don't see too much incentive to switch....Sorta the same reason why i use AIM, MSN Messenger, YIM, Skype, Adobe Flash, etc...I enjoy having a fully-OSS system, but if it's at the point where having it inhibits the things i do daily, i'm more than happy to use some closed-source stuff...As long as it works.
    • norman619, on 03/01/2008, -6/+5Nice to see that common sense is alive and well. Dugg.
    • sirhomer, on 03/01/2008, -0/+3There is absolutely no reason to pander to hardware manufacturers that release binary drivers. I can understand proprietary applications (hey, making a living can be a problem sometimes) - but there is no business sense at all for hardware manufacturers to release binary drivers. Hell, it makes negative business sense, since the stupid OEMs have to fix their drivers nearly every time a Linux kernel comes out. These shenanigans are new, most hardware used to come with full specs and open source drivers before Windows became popular. Thankfully many hardware manufactures have come to their senses lately.
  • sirhomer, on 03/01/2008, -4/+17Open the specs Nvidia!
  • baalzebub, on 03/01/2008, -17/+10don't be surprised if it does not happen ( i know i wont be), just be thankful Nvidia builds Linux drivers at all in the first place...
    • andycr512, on 03/01/2008, -4/+12I don't have to be thankful. If they stop supporting my platform, I stop supporting them. That's how business works.
      • norman619, on 03/01/2008, -8/+3WOW... That will show them... Hmmmm That's kinda like saying Apple users are so ***** with the game industry that they are refusing to buy games. I don't think They would notice very much.
        • andycr512, on 03/01/2008, -2/+5Linux on the desktop isn't the only area where good 3D cards are necessary, and Linux is less of a marginal OS in areas other than the desktop.
          • norman619, on 03/01/2008, -9/+5You are forgetting one very important thing. What is their target market for their cards? Computer users who play the latest and greatest games. Where are those found? On a Mac? No. On Linux? No. On Windows based systems? Yes. Anything nVidia does for the Linux community is a favor. A gift. The arrogance of many Linux users who feel companies like nVidia should cater to them is always amazing. They write working drivers for Linux. Be happy not demanding.
          • andycr512, on 03/01/2008, -1/+8You're forgetting something, too. The target market for their cards is not limited to gaming. http://www.nvidia.com/page/workstation.html

            Besides, you aren't really naive enough to believe that nVidia would produce drivers for an OS just to be nice at the expense of their bottom line, are you?
          • norman619, on 03/01/2008, -8/+1@andy:

            You keep telling yourself that.
          • andycr512, on 03/01/2008, -1/+8Telling myself -what-? That a company that large would spend thousands to develop drivers for a platform that holds no benefits for them?
    • Chicken, on 03/01/2008, -8/+10Their drivers work fine and thats all I care about. The open source mob is getting out of hand these days.
      • mmmiiikkkeee, on 03/01/2008, -3/+5I _have_ had problems with nvidia drivers. It was messing up my suspend/resume(among other problems). so for my sake you could ask for open specs?? thank you for your consideration :)
  • Vaeduus, on 03/01/2008, -7/+54Dear Nvidia,
    We will help you fix your memory bugs.
    Signed, Open Source.
    • norman619, on 03/01/2008, -14/+8Dear Open Source,
      Thanks for the offer but we can manage.
      Signed, nVidia
    • InorganicMatter, on 03/01/2008, -14/+2Dear Open Source,
      You still can't get wireless working after 9 years of trying.
      Signed, NVIDIA
      • sirhomer, on 03/01/2008, -0/+14That's exactly why we NEED specs. Those crappy wireless drivers are only crappy because the manufacturer of said wireless card refuses to release specs and uses shoddy design like driver based firmware. I'm looking at you Broadcom.
      • srg13, on 03/01/2008, -0/+3Thanks for informing me, I never would have known, given that I just read your comment over a wireless connection in Linux...
    • Amiga500, on 03/01/2008, -10/+0Dear Open Source,
      You are less than 8% of the computer market. You aren't worth the time and effort. Get over yourself.
      Signed, NVIDIA
  • LittleLORDevil, on 03/01/2008, -14/+8Too bad ATI's drivers have been ***** on my Linux boot.
    • sq377, on 03/01/2008, -0/+4Give it time, since the specs were recently released, they will start getting better.
      • Amiga500, on 03/01/2008, -3/+1Promises are like buttholes, everyone has one.
  • nextTopModel, on 03/01/2008, -9/+0I model for it!
  • caleb4mj, on 03/01/2008, -11/+6No comment wrt topic. I like nVidia's Linux support.
    • scottmc, on 03/01/2008, -0/+4OSS does not equal just Linux. There's also others out there like Haiku, SkyOS and others that would benefit from having the specs opened.
  • panadero, on 03/01/2008, -12/+5I think this post/letter needs to be directed at ATI, more then NVIDIA. We had ATI cards in our testing laptops for the last 3 years. TALK ABOUT A PIECE OF SH*T! I made sure that the newest pen testing laptops we just got have NVIDIA cards in there...simple driver installation, very reliable...and I love the splash screen...you can keep your ATI cards...
    • jawnboy, on 03/01/2008, -3/+6Dude, ATI drivers are now open source, so writing them a letter asking them to make them open source seems a bit silly.
      • mmmiiikkkeee, on 03/01/2008, -0/+4the drivers are not open source.. the specs needed to write the driver are open(so an open driver will soon be made :) )!! but your point is valid.. it would be silly to petition ATI.. they are doing every thing right lately.
    • LingNoi, on 03/01/2008, -2/+5There's no open specs on 3D acceleration with the ATI driver meaning it's useless for 3D. The open source driver you're talking about only does 2D.
      • rtfx, on 03/01/2008, -0/+5http://www.x.org/docs/AMD/
        Wrong, you missed the recent news and the whole point of this article too.
      • macoafi, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Er...no. The old ATI open source drivers do 3D and AIGLX on old cards and 2D on slightly newer ones. The *new* ATI open source drivers came with full specs and do 3D.
      • macoafi, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Er....I think...someone else said it's only 3D specs, but there were new ATI drivers recently that actually worked for 3D with AIGLX, but I'm not 100% sure if they're open or not.
  • banmaster, on 03/01/2008, -14/+1Why would they pour lots oif money into supporting such a miniscule (about 1/2 the number of macs out there and they are
    • sq377, on 03/01/2008, -0/+3Pour lots of money? Which is more difficult, opening up the specs on the cards, or pay for developers to make linux ports?
  • daftie, on 03/01/2008, -2/+14Vote for a Greener Linux!
  • Kyle0wnsyou, on 03/01/2008, -1/+14If this gets through, maybe we can finally get some optimized NVIDIA drivers for OS X.
  • Infowarmachine, on 03/01/2008, -2/+10i support this message
  • Protoss, on 03/01/2008, -13/+9Opensource doesn't automatically mean awesome drivers. How long have the ATI specs been out? And the drivers still suck. The Nvidia drivers are amazing, they seem to be the only ones that listen to the community.
    • andycr512, on 03/01/2008, -2/+17"How long have the ATI specs been out? And the drivers still suck."

      A few months? That's not enough time to write a robust driver for all ATI cards, specs or no specs.
  • brian1027, on 03/01/2008, -2/+9Digg, Digg, Digg!
  • Jammer, on 03/01/2008, -9/+8Boy, I can just imagine the response:

    "As the clear market leader, we really don't give much thought to what our competitors are doing in regards to open source. If the open source market meant that much then it would affect our bottom line, which it has not. If you do not like the way we do business, then find a better graphics card to use with open source drivers...

    ... oh that's right: there aren't any better graphics cards."
  • neutrino15, on 03/01/2008, -10/+8The best way to combat nvidia is by boycotting their products. Just don't buy nvidia cards anymore.. A company like nvidia has no incentive to release drivers for linux, so GIVE THEM INCENTIVE.
    • norman619, on 03/01/2008, -7/+4Yeah.... Since Linux boxes aren't their target market I doubt they would care much or even notice. Good luck with that.
      • mmmiiikkkeee, on 03/01/2008, -3/+4they will care when the idea "nvidia's drivers suck" becomes more common in the future(people mihgt not know what they suck with, but just the idea will 'turn' there buyers away). I will be telling all my windows using friends to but ATI in the future(and I bet other linux users will do the same...).
        • sirhomer, on 03/01/2008, -3/+3Exactly. One of the first things you learn in business school. If you ***** off one customer, you will often lose ten customers. Linux users tend be well connected in the sysadmin/tech world (#1 web server OS), so ***** off Linux users is really bad business, despite what that nitwit keeps spamming all over this news thread. We pressured AMD to release open specs and they did. We can do the same to Nvidia.
    • jawnboy, on 03/01/2008, -1/+10Nvidia has released drivers for linux for quite some time, that isn't the issue. The issue is that if they would open source the drivers then the community could address the problems that come up in a more timely fashion and ensure that the hardware works better with the software that is being created.
      • CarzorStelatis, on 03/01/2008, -0/+3Would also save Nvidia money as well - problems that they might otherwise have to use their own programmer time to solve, get solved for them for free by the community.
    • LingNoi, on 03/01/2008, -2/+6Do you happen to work for a graphics company? Why would I boycott one of the small number of companies that actually provides Linux drivers?

      Open or Not, right now, Nvidia support on Linux is much better then ATI and does much more then Intel graphics. Maybe this will change in the future but right now I don't see it, seeming as ATI's open source driver still doesn't have 3D.

      So please answer this question.. why should I boycott Nvidia when they do a much better product then their competitors on Linux? A better solution would be to keep nagging them and to contribute to the open source Nvidia driver (Nouveau), they'll give up in the end.

      I signed the list.
    • InorganicMatter, on 03/01/2008, -5/+6You must not have an NVIDIA card. NVIDIA's closed drivers work a lot better than ATI's open drivers.
      • sirhomer, on 03/01/2008, -1/+4Yes, and I'm sure you'll love NVIDIA's binary drivers when another root exploit is discovered in them and all your files and personal information gets sent over to some script kiddie because the Linux developers couldn't do ***** about the problem.
      • cornflakepirate, on 03/01/2008, -0/+2ATI's open documentation has only been around for a few months. Give it some time - developing drivers is very difficult work.
    • Jammer, on 03/01/2008, -3/+4Good one. A bunch of semi and under-employed geeks boycotting a company. That will really get their attention. Clueless, aren't you?
  • over900000, on 03/01/2008, -9/+4If open source was so great why isn't there a freaking decent non linear video editor out there???
    • sq377, on 03/01/2008, -2/+3Cinelerra
      Blender
      Kino
      Jahshaka

      You lose at google.
      • over900000, on 03/01/2008, -1/+1because all of them are decent right?
  • xen0blue, on 03/01/2008, -16/+11THE .15% OF THE COMPUTER-USING COMMUNITY ORDER YOU TO GIVE IN TO OUR DEMANDS!
    • mmmiiikkkeee, on 03/01/2008, -3/+2i think we are looking at closer to .5% to 1% .... where did you get .15% from???
    • sirhomer, on 03/01/2008, -0/+3& the majority of sysadmins (with huge hardware purchasing budgets) in the world. Linux? #1 Server OS. For many Linux users ***** one off equals losing hundreds of thousands of dollars in business contracts.
      • Amiga500, on 03/01/2008, -1/+1What exactly would a server need with a high end, 3D graphics card? It's just needs to push data, like any server. The display is hardly a priority, and in some cases, isn't used at all. Your argument is illogical.
        • sirhomer, on 03/01/2008, -0/+1The same sysadmins who manage the servers usually manage desktops in many organizations. Those desktops may be running Windows (because they have to), but that doesn't stop said sysadmins from buying systems with only Intel or AMD cards in them.
    • CarzorStelatis, on 03/01/2008, -0/+2Best estimates put all the various Linux distros at about 3% combined market share - roughly the same as Apple by the way.
    • jabberwolf, on 03/02/2008, -0/+1I think about 3.5 percent . Half the Apple users browsing the internet, the other are getting their lattes at Starbucks. There is about .05 percent actually working on them.
  • vvlist, on 03/01/2008, -0/+21I signed it. I want 3D acceleration on a fresh distro install.
  • Codes02, on 03/01/2008, -1/+21STOP TAINTING MY KERNEL!
  • Rookie42, on 03/01/2008, -11/+4nVidia's Linux support is fine. This letter should have been directed at ATi's ***** poor attempt at *nix drivers.
    • centx, on 03/01/2008, -1/+5At least AMD/ATI is trying to do something, recently making documentation available for developers coding ATI OSS X drivers (RadeonHD).
  • GhengisKhan, on 03/01/2008, -16/+2Wow! nerd-dom at its crescendo. You got to be ***** kidding me; get a life.
    • sq377, on 03/01/2008, -0/+7When I clicked the red thumbs down button... I pressed the button really hard.
  • CAD420, on 03/01/2008, -3/+4Who's bloody idea was it for a verification question anyways??? What the hell is the answer to that??? We're not all Einsteins you know.
    • djchester, on 03/01/2008, -0/+2haha, you are funny! my verification question was 7+8
    • Culyt, on 03/01/2008, -1/+0PLEASE ENTER ANY 11-DIGIT PRIME NUMBER TO CONTINUE
  • nmnnotmyname, on 03/01/2008, -2/+15Dugg.

    Regardless of whatever the hell comments are above (I'll read them in a moment) NVidia open sourcing their drivers will bring nothing but good to the Linux and FreeBSD communities. People will contribute to these drivers, believe it or not. I have installed FreeBSD recently only to find out they don't have accelerated NVidia 3D drivers for the AMD64 architecture. (Yes, i have in fact read all the various available crap on the internet.)
  • brainboy77, on 03/01/2008, -14/+2wait, graphics cards are used to play games. and last time i checked, the games for linux are extremely thin. you can't even play HL2. so stop bitching, and get a dell.
    • sloppychris, on 03/01/2008, -3/+5When was the last time you checked?
    • LingNoi, on 03/01/2008, -1/+10You can play HL2, Portal through steam on Linux via wine.

      Stop repeating crap your wintard friends say.
      • Amiga500, on 03/01/2008, -3/+1Except, in the real world, you're performance would be quite bad. Not only is Wine slow, but lacking good drivers in the first place will hold you back even more. My own test with an Nvidia 7650 running Quake 3 in both Linux and Vista (on the same machine) showed the Linux version to render 35~40% less FPS on average. Typical Linux user, high on lies and dogma, light on real world facts. Oh, but I'm sure you'll whip up some good excuse. It was my distro, my config, unfair driver advantage, background apps, poor math. Something other than Linux doing VERY bad at something. STILL.
    • lovestospooge, on 03/01/2008, -2/+4Buy a Dell? At least do it properly and assemble it yourself (which you can do regardless of choice of Windows or *nix)
    • WayOfTheIronPaw, on 03/01/2008, -0/+7Graphics cards are used for lots of things: desktop effects (and Compiz on Linux does a better job of that than Vista), computer-aided design, visualisations for mathematics, science and engineering, and so on. In other words: both work and play.

      As for games under Linux, you can play Half Life, http://lhl.linuxgames.com/howto.shtml, if you have some determination. Some games are written for Linux, many are not. If the games in question is Open Source or a commercial release with Linux as a supported platform, e.g. DOOM 3, then you're golden. Of the open source variety, my personal favourite is Nexuiz - check out the video here http://www.alientrap.org/nexuiz/ - you can also try that one on Windows. As for playing Windows games on Linux, many ARE supported, as evidenced by the list on Wine's web site here: http://appdb.winehq.org/.

      I think the point I would like to impress on you is that there are *enough* games on Linux to keep you happy for a very long time. Personally, that's not the reason why I choose to run Linux. I choose to run Linux because the alternative, Windows, is buggy and insecure and limits my choices. I choose to run Linux because I choose to NOT RUN ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE. ;-) And I've been doing that little trick for 13 years.
  • sdlvx, on 03/01/2008, -6/+5I for one don't want NVIDIA to open source. This will give AMD a little time to catch up. We need healthier competition.
    But it's nice. A year ago everyone laughed when you said you wanted ATI on linux, and told you to get an NVIDIA.

    Now, the FOSS community is cheering for NVIDIA to open up? My my my how the tables have turned.
    • WayOfTheIronPaw, on 03/01/2008, -3/+0Graphics cards are used for many things: desktop effects (and incidentally, Compiz is much better than Vista in that regard), computer-aided design, visualisations for mathematics, science and engineering, and so on. In other words: both work and play.

      As for games under Linux, you can play Half Life, http://lhl.linuxgames.com/howto.shtml, if you have some determination. Some games are written for Linux, many are not. If the game in question is Open Source or a commercial release with Linux as a supported platform, e.g. DOOM 3, then you're golden. Of the open source variety, my personal favourite is Nexuiz - check out the video here http://www.alientrap.org/nexuiz/ - you can also try that one on Windows. As for playing Windows games on Linux, many ARE supported, as evidenced by the list on Wine's web site here: http://appdb.winehq.org/.

      I think the point I would like to impress on you is that there are *enough* games on Linux to keep you happy for a very long time. Personally, that's not the reason why I choose to run Linux. I choose to run Linux because the alternative, Windows, is buggy and insecure and limits my choices. I choose to run Linux because I choose to NOT RUN ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE. ;-) And I've been doing that little trick for 13 years.
    • WayOfTheIronPaw, on 03/01/2008, -1/+0Sorry, somehow my reply ended up going under the wrong comment. I wanted to reply to brainboy77.
      • sdlvx, on 03/01/2008, -1/+1haha it's cool. I was confused. I was like, what? I use linux and compiz fusion too. ='[

        But I have a laptop with an ATI, so I've been through the whole suck->alright thing.
    • alperea, on 03/04/2008, -0/+1Yes I was saving for an NVIDIA, being a former ATI user, in case I wanna try Linux. Now it's the opposite. My head is a spinning!
  • WayOfTheIronPaw, on 03/01/2008, -3/+3I must have blinked when ATI open sourced their drivers. In any case, that changes my future buying preference to ATI over NVidia, because the ATI drivers will surely be better. I made this comment to NVidia when I signed the petition.
    • LingNoi, on 03/01/2008, -6/+3Why will it be automatically better because it is open source? Right now the ATI open source driver doesn't do any 3D, not because they haven't gotten around to it, because ATI won't release the 3D specs, so how is that better?
      • WayOfTheIronPaw, on 03/01/2008, -3/+1Well, I guess I assumed the 3-D spec would be there. That's not so good. :-(
        In principle, with full specs available, the open source driver will be maintained with the kernel by the kernel developers, as with all of the other drivers under Linux. So if the kernel changes in incompatible ways, or new features are added to the kernel that have the potential to enhance the graphical experience, then the driver can be updated accordingly.
        At the moment with my closed source NVidia driver I have a choice: I can use the Livna repackaging of the NVidia driver, or I can run NVidia's installer to compile a kernel module every time my kernel changes. Neither option is ideal. Interactively compiling a kernel module on a regular basis is less than ideal for obvious reasons. The Livna packages do not always keep track with my Fedora kernel updates, with the consequence that package updates for one or the other sometimes fail for extended periods of time.
      • sq377, on 03/01/2008, -1/+5Do your research, ATI released the 3d specs for their cards.
        • CarzorStelatis, on 03/01/2008, -4/+1So why exactly does the open source ATI driver still not do 3D? You fail at comebacks.
        • cornflakepirate, on 03/01/2008, -0/+4Because it's not finished yet. You fail at patience.
  • InorganicMatter, on 03/01/2008, -6/+7I don't care. NVIDIA supplies Linux drivers, and they always work for me.

    I'm what you'd call a normal user. I don't care what happens behind the scenes. ;)
  • wolferz, on 03/01/2008, -8/+3Heh... why petition nVidia? Just add it to GPL v4 that proprietary software is outright banned from being installed at all along side GPLed software. It is only a step away from that point already any way.

    Seriously I never have and never will have a problem with closed source software or specifications. Sorry... just don't see the point. You can rant and rave about the "Evil(TM)" companies like Microsoft all you want but then there are also products like Avast! and Ad-Aware provided free of charge on the principle that every one deserves to have protection from threats. There are closed source cd burning software, image editors, media players, etc that are completely free of ads or spyware simply because some one thought it would be a good idea.

    Closed source is not inherently Bad. It might not be to your taste in which case you can feel free to use open source drivers. Open source drivers suck cause they have to be reverse engineered? Then design and release specs for your own video card. Stop demanding that companies you claim to like cater to your very specific needs. If they see a profit in it they will. With the small market share of Linux and the sporadic nature of games on Linux it's should be no surprise that they don't. Profit shouldn't matter? Move to China then. You can turn a profit from open source, but except for in services and marketing, there is little money to be had in it. This was the intention of the GPL from it's very inception, according to the very words of the man who created it. Thats why so many people refer to is as a "commie" software license.

    In the end it all boils down to one thing: It isn't a corporation's job to cater to the whims of a minority group. It IS however their responsibility, to their shareholders (not their customers), to turn as large a profit as they legally can for as long as they legally can. nVidia knows this better than any one. That is how they preformed a hostile takeover of 3dfx way back when. If you have a problem with that then you have a problem with capitalism and you should be rallying against that instead.

    I don't have an issue with open source ether. Many of its achievements are quite noteworthy. In the end, however, open source is not inherently good nor is closed source inherently bad. I would even go so far as to say that neither one is inherently better than the other. With the continuing increase in arbitrary and politically/ideologically fueled crap that is being fed into the GPL it IS rapidly becoming less and less useful (Fortunately the GPL isn't the only choice for an open source license) but they each have their place.
    • backwoodsbob, on 03/01/2008, -1/+3Good points! I can't see anything wrong with the current situation. In the last year alone nvidia has released at least 4, or 5 upgrades to their linux drivers. That says they are putting a lot of effort into linux; don't ***** them off.
  • downtonothing, on 03/01/2008, -1/+5This is a must, its been annoying me for a while now.. Count me in.
  • DeFex, on 03/01/2008, -3/+1almost as many diggs as "signatures" ok wait just after we finish helping the 23 people who accidentally got a blue sticker instead of a green one, and the 632 people who want a driver for "descent 3" we will look after all 1000 or so of you.
  • Radanator, on 03/01/2008, -1/+4If not open source, at least release some drivers for Stereo 3d. Its been over a year and those of us with 8000+ vid cards have apparently been forgotten.
    • CarzorStelatis, on 03/01/2008, -1/+2The Geforce 8 series drivers for WINDOWS suck, let alone the Linux ones :P
    • uhsf, on 03/01/2008, -0/+2+1 for Linux stereo 3d drivers. This is the very only thing that's missing in the whole Free/Open Source Software world.
  • screensnot, on 03/01/2008, -0/+5It seems to me that the best way to convince nVidia to do this, would be to make some good OSS drivers for ATI. Then, when ATI becomes the default Linux card, nVidia won't need to be prodded.
  • gudnbluts, on 03/01/2008, -0/+4"While we are gracious that your company provides one of the best closed-source graphics drivers for Linux"

    The whole thing reads like it was written by somebody who doesn't speak English as a first language. They could at least have got someone to proofread the letter. "Gracious" indeed.
    • cornflakepirate, on 03/01/2008, -0/+1Please ignore (I wrote a stupid reply, and then I edited it)
  • wukillabee, on 03/01/2008, -2/+1why exactly wouldnt they want their drivers open-source? whats up with that?
    • macoafi, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1They could be like Linksys routers and put all the magic in the driver while all the hardware's the same... well, Linksys put all the hardware the same and then different firmware to determine if you paid $60 or $200 for a router.
  • AsamabinMaro, on 03/01/2008, -0/+4Think we could get one of these going for Creative?

    Would love my soundcard to work in Ubuntu :-P
  • vip0007, on 03/01/2008, -0/+3Future is withe Open Source
    I hope nVidia listen to the sound of the brain
    • jabberwolf, on 03/02/2008, -0/+1Yeah because they have been doing so horribly lately. They should listen to you right?
  • Stonekeeper, on 03/01/2008, -1/+1"While we are gracious that...."

    Er I think you mean grateful.
  • TheMachine1, on 03/01/2008, -1/+0I thought the real reason for closed source drivers was both companies are stealing each others patents and not disclosing the source code helps hide that.
  • pyrates, on 03/01/2008, -2/+2How about you create a standard driver api that works entirely with 2.6.xx instead of just 2.6.1 for instance. Microsoft did it and so did Apple. Some companies do not want to open source their drivers. Get use to that.

    This is hurting linux more then anything because instead of the people who created the hardware writing the drivers for it, people who tried to reverse engineer the hardware are writing the drivers and without all the documentation you just can't create as good a driver for it.

    If you want quality drivers, make a quality driver api so that no matter if you have 2.6.15 or 2.6.20 the same precompiled proprietary driver will work. What's wrong with wanting a good driver api?
  • CarzorStelatis, on 03/01/2008, -3/+1Buried for ignoring the First Rule: anyone who says 'GNU/Linux' is a FSF zealot and can be safely ignored.
  • jacekpoplawski, on 03/01/2008, -0/+2nVidia is the only video card manufactures which is NOT working with open source developers. Both ATI and Intel are funding open source drivers.
    Your operating system is NOT free with closed source module in kernel. What's the difference if you are using Linux kernel or Windows kernel with your apps if you still have few megabytes of closed source code in it?
    Think about it next time when you are purchasing new video card.
    • computershack, on 03/01/2008, -1/+0So what? Does it work is surely more important. Would you know what the code meant? no.
  • BronxBartoni, on 03/01/2008, -1/+1Not going to happen. NVIDIA has the most to lose here, intel and AMD are the ones who can gain from this.
  • rpraddy, on 03/01/2008, -0/+0They ought to bow down.... just a matter of time....
  • computershack, on 03/01/2008, -1/+0To be honest, what's the point? nVidias own Linux drivers work extremely well and they're freely available. I think this is just complaining about something for the sake of it. This "tainted" business is just being taken to ridiculous lengths now.
    Still, if they do release open drivers, the "purists" will find something else to bitch about. Here's a suggestion: Life is too short and there's more important things to worry about than whether the graphics driver is closed or not. Grow up FFS.
    • JohnFlux, on 03/01/2008, -0/+0On a practical level, I find it annoying. I recently had to install a modern distro on about 50 machines. The distro didn't come with the proprietary nvidia drivers, and so I had to spend 2 days working out how to get the nvidia drivers to work and roll that into the kickstart system.
      If they were open source and just included, I wouldn't have had that problem at all.
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