What is Digg?50 Comments
- jd33, on 10/11/2007, -3/+56Jesus saves, Buddha does incremental backups.
- Neorio, on 10/11/2007, -0/+16I've been playing around with ZFS in the latest FreeBSD 7 snapshot. Its nice. You'll want it for your file server.
- daedius, on 10/11/2007, -5/+21I found this quote insightful:
"Buddha came to the world to show the path of righteousness, to destroy the path of error, and to break down sorrow. Buddhism is not agnosticism or atheism. Buddha did not deny God. He only said: "Do not bother about questions like 'Is there God?', 'Do I exist?', 'Is the world real or not?'. Do not waste your time and energy in useless discussions. Become a practical religious man. Purify your heart. Control the mind. Lead a virtuous life. You will attain Nirvana or emancipation or eternal bliss."
To accuse Buddha as an atheist or agnostic is simply foolish. Buddha found no use in metaphysical wrangling. He declined to enter into metaphysics. Is there God or no God? Is life eternal or non-eternal? These questions were set aside as not requiring an answer for the attainment of Nirvana. "
http://www.dlshq.org/religions/buddhism.htm
Forget your names and analogies when they are no longer needed. They only lead one astray from understanding. - ibis, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9The licence Sun has released ZFS under isn't compatible with the Linux kernel, so it can't currently be included. That's what Linus meant, Sun has gone "Here is ZFS and it's open source, well, um, except that we licenced it in a way that everyone can use it except for Linux". The only way to do it unless Sun re-licence it will be through "FUSE" which moves filesystems out of the kernel and runs them in userspace. This has a performance penalty though.
- theatrus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Already possible in OpenSolaris builds.
- theatrus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Yes but can you backup snapshots which are created in constant time (hint: you can't, to snapshot you must copy everything with rsync)? rsync is a good tool, ZFS snapshots+send are different and superior tool for this application.
- jcardinal, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9Please put in Ubuntu and OpenSuse!
- Noah0504, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7I want this available for Linux. Although, I think Linus was just complaining about the fact that Sun isn't really sharing ZFS.
- devindotcom, on 10/11/2007, -3/+8Apple is pretending to....
http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/13/leopard-does-does-not-use-zfs-part-iii-it-does-kinda/ - ricree, on 10/11/2007, -9/+13Looks great. Anyone know when it's going to be out on an OS someone actually uses?
- funkytaco, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6If you have rsync available (alot of Linux distro's do) you can use rsync to create incremental backups
To backup from a local directory "/backup/weekly" to a remote directory called "/backups" in your remote home folder
nice -10 rsync -azve ssh /backup/weekly/ remoteuser@mybackupserver.net:/backups
(note that the rsync options depend on your rsync version and platform. You can even keep it from prompting for a password and put it into a cron if you use "ssh-keygen -t dsa" without passwords and setup ~/.ssh/authorized_keys with the output of id_dsa.pub)
rsync two local directories (from here to there):
[you@yourserver you]$ mkdir here
[you@yourserver you]$ mkdir there
[you@yourserver you]$ touch here/file
[you@yourserver you]$ rsync -avz here/ there/
building file list ... done
./
file
wrote 123 bytes read 36 bytes 318.00 bytes/sec
total size is 0 speedup is 0.00
[you@yourserver you]$ ls there/
file
rsync has a few options (like compression, deleting, et ceter)... see "man rsync" for more info or the help file. - bigboehmboy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Wow, Digg users turning a story about ZFS into a philosophical debate and comparison of religions? Isn't it usually the other way around on digg?
- devindotcom, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4@widman
FTA:
ZFS "is only available a read-only option from the command line," according to an Apple spokesperson.
so it's available in a really weak way, which was my point. - webmink, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4As well as being in all the OpenSolaris distros, ZFS is in FreeBSD, it's in OS X 10.5, there's a FUSE version. Well and truly shared.
- lolhax, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Is available in Linux through FUSE, but a beta version only; and I don't like my filesystems to be a beta version.
Anyways, here's a link to the guy's blog (The one who's porting it)
http://zfs-on-fuse.blogspot.com/ - widman, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4@devindotcom
Not really http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/06/12/zfs-not-an-option-for-leopard - klaarn, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2so that's how time machine works in leopard...
- fluxion, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2final verdict: very nice
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Whenever there is a conversation about ZFS there is a huge number of comments how ZFS is cool and all for servers and RAIDs but it's pretty much useless on workstations or laptops. This article gives all these laptop scenarios in order to address precisely those comments.
- ShyGuy91284, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2As a ZFS user for over half a year now, I can say it is brilliant. I haven't used many features, but the compression works quite well (and is flexible), and RAID-Z is bulletproof from my experiences. A friend of mine has had issues with Intel's Matrix RAID numerous times, but my RAID-Z array has dealt with abrupt power offs and system reinstalls with no problem whatsoever (Although Solaris itself didn't always deal so well). Moving a RAID-Z partition is as easy as plugging the drives into any controller in any config on another system and doing "zpool import ". Hopefully it gets ported soon. Solaris has a number of brilliant things to it, but its usability is still horrible.
- muszek, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3Dugg for telling me what ZFS can do... but TFA is kinda stupid in a way that it tries too hard to claim it's prove that ZFS is cool for laptops...
1. "laptop users need backup". How's a laptop user different? If anything, laptop users are less likely to need backups then, say, server admins.
2. "laptops have only 1 hard drive and are prone to disasters". meaning you can't make a RAID with redundant data. Again, how's that laptop-specific?
3. "built-in compression"... he doesn't make a laptop-related point, but he actually could, as laptops have smaller disks.
4. "laptops will have multiple storage devices and ZFS has built-in software RAID". Earlier he said ZFS is great for laptops because they have 1 disk. Now it's great because they will have more than one disk.
As I said in the begining - dugg for being informative. I should've buried it for using lame logic. - Error601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Neither a snapshot or copying data to another disk should ever be considered a backup. A backup is only on removable media taken off the system.
- GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1What's to stop a re-implementation. Sun have insinuated that they would give a GPLv3 style recurring indemnification patent license if they did reimplement it (note you don't need GPLv3 to do this, it just makes it a requirement rather than an option).
- itanshi, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2not caring about deep religious questions != not choosing a side (inferred - wavering between them)
he is sideless, such is peace - theatrus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Agree, its pretty bullet proof.
And yes, Solaris is in 1993 in terms user friendlyness and usability... At least it comes with a copy of bash (can you say tab-complete?). But its not default. - nixfu, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2See: http://www.rsnapshot.org/
rsnapshot is a filesystem snapshot utility for making backups of local and remote systems.
Using rsync and hard links, it is possible to keep multiple, full backups instantly available. The disk space required is just a little more than the space of one full backup, plus incrementals.
Depending on your configuration, it is quite possible to set up in just a few minutes. Files can be restored by the users who own them, without the root user getting involved.
There are no tapes to change, so once it's set up, you may never need to think about it again.
Works great, been around for a while now, lots of people use it..... its Time Machine for NIX-Geeks. - GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@daedius
If he says not to worry about whether God exists without affirming or denying his existence then he was agnostic by definition. You argument reads like this to me. Buddha isn't an agnostic because "argument that defines agnosticism". - sqrt7744, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4@daedius: Having been steeped since birth in Western Civilization (including at long stint in Physics at the University), I never have found avoiding the great questions either insightful or inherently interesting. The quote you have from Buddha indicates that he was a pragmatist - not a thinker.
- fweeky, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2dump(8) and restore(8) also do incremental backups, and are quite popular in the BSD world.
FreeBSD's UFS2 also supports snapshots, and dump will, by default, use them to create point-in-time consistant backups (you can of course make your own too). Sadly there's not as scalable as ZFS's; larger filesystems generally take significantly longer to snapshot.
Matt Dillon of DragonFlyBSD fame is working on yet another next-gen filsystem, which in some respects is aiming to be more powerful than ZFS; http://kerneltrap.org/node/7779 -- multi-master (multiple systems can run the same filesystem read-write), logless replication (so a node can go offline and the fs doesn't need to log what it will need to send when it comes back up), multi-node self-healing (like cross-machine RAID), in addition to things like unlimited snapshots, rapid recovery and so forth. Yum. - Error601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1You can kind of boot off it. It really boots a small UFS which bootstraps ZFS. The issue is getting enough into your boot code to bring up the pool.
- Error601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1So, bash not being default is your only point? Tcsh kick's bash's butt anyway.
- Error601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Isn't that block level? ZFS combines the volume manage and filesystem to give you a lot more flexibility. For one, you don't have to pre-allocate disk partitions to filesystems. It's all dynamically allocated as needed.
- widman, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Snapshots have been part of the BSD filesystem for a while. http://www.mckusick.com/softdep/
Sun didn't invent it. Also NetApp has better filesystems, just not open source. - buddhabelieves, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1jd33 is right i do make incremental backups, until Leopard comes out then I'm using timemachine :)
- Error601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I'd give that a big "not likely". At least not for a while until they recoup their development costs. The I/O driver inter-dependency issues on a kernel without tight release control is also problematic.
- Error601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I don't agree. Backups should be multi-generational. I should be able to restore the systems for any given day in at least the last few months. A lot of times something major will get corrupted and no one will notice for a while. But they time they do, a simple remote copy will have already moved that corruption out and your data is totally gone.
- Error601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Rsync is not even remotely the same thing as a snapshot as it's not a point in time image. Backing up active files by copying generally just produces junk.
- stephdau, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Good one. That's the best and deepest quote I've read in a while.
- ultrasonoro, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Wow, I love that website layout.
- digguserer, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Actually, a backup can be a copy to another system too. Once you try to backup 2TB to removable storage you will realize that removable media is probably the worst method to backup around. The zfs method of using remote systems (can be across the country) to backup to will probably become the standard a few years from now.
- DarkJesus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Fast incremental backflips?
Sounds awesome. - Error601, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1Ah...the clueless kids. Stick head in sand and dig down facts.
- Error601, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2Ah...the industry clueless kids. Solaris is everywhere especially on the midrange to large.
- mikerb73, on 10/11/2007, -2/+0The only reason I'm not doing backflips over ZFS is that (at least on Solaris 10) you can't boot off it.
I'm hearing the next Solaris 10 update might fix this?? - Rice, on 10/11/2007, -8/+5Apple, please put ZFS in Leopard.
Sincerely, Rice - funkytaco, on 10/11/2007, -9/+4The next OSX has the option to use ZFS on read-only partitions.
- KibibyteBrain, on 10/11/2007, -13/+5@fly1m1 Buddha was an Atheist.
- j0c1f3r, on 10/11/2007, -12/+1so......
- Fly1m1, on 10/11/2007, -17/+5Atheists use Drobo.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -17/+3ntbackup.exe
Browsing Digg on your phone just got easier with our enhancements to the 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is