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71 Comments
- burtonbe, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19Overall, this is a nice article; however it seems to use a lot of weasel words when describing parts of the LAMP stack. I'm not saying LAMP is without it faults, but to describe MySQL as something which "barely qualifies as a database," and to then go on to say SQLite "doesn't fully support typed data....This makes it a good choice for loosely typed languages" is misleading.
(Also, let's please not turn this discussion into a flame war over which software is better) - Celeron, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19My DESK and CHAIR servers will go greatly with the LAMP server.
- twistymcgee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10How does MySQL have a documentation advantage over PostgreSQL? I can usually find my way around the PostgreSQL docs much easier than the MySQL docs. Not to mention that PostgreSQL has stood the test of time as well as MySQL since they've both been aroung for about the same amount of time. You could say that PostgreSQL has been around longer if you count it's predecessors.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10The article's description of MySQL's performance characteristics ("speed on simple selects") seems to indicate that they may only be talking about (or familiar with) the MyISAM engine, which is certainly an engine that "barely qualifies as a database," rather than the much more robust InnoDB.
That alone though, makes me really question how in-depth the author really is informed about LAMP and its components. - MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9And, of course, if your needs for SQL aren't big, you can always use SQL Express. Mmmm...SQLCLR....
- Protoss, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13I...I love...carpet, I love desk....
- Protoss, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Lighttpd (http://lighttpd.net) ftw! It is a lot less bloated than Apache, and hey, it's good enough for mininova!
- tehpoutine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Reason #432810 not to use MySQL:
It's not free, they even try to scare people who are using it for inner-department projects into paying for their commercial licenses. MySQL officially considers a network connection to the mysql DB "linking" to the database, therefore your client software must be GPL or you need to pay (PHP is an exception). Also to add on to that, MySQL contains a lot of GPL components, which cannot be in their commercial version, so you'd get a worse version if you paid for it.
I think I'll continue using postgresql with their BSD licensed sexiness. - Phoenyx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7We use lighttpd where I work to serve out our image files and it rocks! It hands-down better than apache for static content.
(I installed the latest version today on my new Dapper install with synaptic.) - dcipjr, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12I love lamp.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@WorldGroove,
Check out PostgreSQL too - twistymcgee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6TheAttacks:
http://firebird.sourceforge.net/ - spectre_25gt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5This article seemed a little too lightweight for the subject it was covering. They didn't even mention Java servlets, ASP.NET, mod_perl... Yay, another story telling me about ROR.
- adolfojp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I run, manage and deploy an array of Linux (Debian mostly) and Windows servers and clients. My database, file, print, and domain servers run Debian. However, after this post I will be labeled as a Microsoftie. I like to think of myself as a person who likes to use the right tool for the job.
I can make you a web application in PHP, Ruby on Rails, Java + JSF and in ASP.NET. In fact, I do that for a living.
If I get to choose the platform I will choose ASP.NET for most situations. For complex applications that require multiple layers across multiple systems, including web services and rich clients .NET can't be beat. Integrating .NET servers with MONO GTK# clients is a dream. ASP.NET 2.0 loves CSS and producing standards compliant output. .NET delivers everything that Java promised and more. (Except for cross platform server compatibility. I can't blame them for trying to make money of a great product.)
In most situations, the time that I save by using ASP.NET will make up for the cost of the .NET servers.
For small to medium databases Postgresql can't be beat. - SniperSlap, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6You poor child.
- Chewie67, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I've tried most of the web development "platforms", and I find .NET to be the most intuitive for programming. If you come from a traditional, desktop development background, .NET will seem like second nature for you. If your not a programmer, just someone who learned how to write web pages, then maybe something like PHP, ASP or ColdFusion works for you. It comes with drawbacks, however, like having your code intermixed with your layout HTML.
It may not have a hip acronym like LAMP, and all the MS-Haters may ingore it out of spite, but it does a better job, IMHO. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -14/+18Microsoft Windows IIS .NET MSSQL :D
I'll get modded down, but the last couple of years have seen that combo brought to a level affordable by anyone (with a job), and .NET + MSSQL is an excellent, flexible, powerful and efficient combination. - desnotes, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I, too, thought it was a good article despite going after the popular applications in the LAMP stack. I wish Firebird had been explored deeper as I think it is one of the best "unknown" databases in the OSS world.
- hotani, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Informative article, but sadly no mention of python.
I've been using LAMP, and my most recent (very large) project has been done with LAM...CF - yeah, I know. Which brings me to my research on frameworks and alternatives to use for rewriting the system. I've decided to use a framework this time and will most likely go with 'LAPP'; Linux, Apache, PostgreSQL, Python via Django. Or, as the Django folks might say: "PAID" (PostgreSQL/Apache/Internet/Django). :-) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@bieber - seems to work out okay for all those sites running Java, using Oracle etc.
- kerplunk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Lighttpd is not only great for static content, I believe it is faster at serving PHP dynamic pages with FastCGI. I should do some real benchmarks for evidence. If you haven't tried lighttpd:
http://www.lighttpd.net
Truly amazing. - SniperSlap, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Those aren't Microsoft ads ya hotheadded fool. I stated above that the business I work at is wrestling with Java technology regularly. It's costing them piles in outsourced hours (cheap isn't cheap if it gets you nothing that works).
I promise you, at least 75% of the people reading here shop at the company I work for. You gotta check your pulse, your brain appears to be losing circulation. - WorldGroove, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Thank you. This is why I read digg; ....I had no idea that there was such a thing as an open-source database.
Now, I'm gonna go read if it supports things like stored procedures 'n such.... - Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10But are they compatible with the LAMP alternatives: LIGHTER, FLASHLIGHT, and GLOWSTICK?
- Snakedal337, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I personally like the LAMP idea, but XAMPP is much much easier, and is rather a full, all around server kit.
If you havn't herd about it, check it out :)
http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html - SniperSlap, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Developing for the web is all cohesion cohesion cohesion.
Microsoft's current ASP.NET 2.0 technology is the most cohesive server-side web solution that I have seen so far. PHP is a fantastic little language and I wrote many-a-web-script with it. But that same power is now available in the .NET 1.0/1.1 world in not just Microsoft but also Mono based servers. So if you want free, low level more-procedural web scripting for all platforms, ASP.NET 1.x would suit you just fine and as time goes on, it will only get better with 2.0 out there.
Where I work right now (They're big...) is having a nice little nightmare wrestling with over engineered, vague Java server side technologies. I spent two months (for my own personal use) comparing *gasp* "Java server side" and it's constituent horde of web technologies corraled by umbrella APIs *ungasp* versus ASP.NET 2.0...It was no contest. Microsoft is practically begging people to do ASP.NET 2.0 because it makes people buy their servers...
Proprietary, yes. But the nice side is that businesses like Microsoft because that's who they advertise to. If you can build on Microsoft technologies life is that much easier for YOU. Especially when your web technology isn't working against you every time you try to do something *cough* Java!.
The Rails -Ruby crowd sound like a fantastic new bunch. I don't know much about it, but I've heard only good things. I believe in the right tools for the job, but I couldn't reccomend Java to anyone I hated. It's far too complicated and a nightmare to maintain and extend. - Corvillus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Last I checked Digg used PHP. http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2006/04/digg_phps_scalability_and_perf.html
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'd like to see Firebird vs. PostgreSQL, they seem to be in the same niche. I've been impressed with Firebird so far.
- gmerin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2aside from the other issues already mentioned, listing Solaris as an alternative to Linux, is simply insulting to both Solaris and to Linux: both were designed for two totally different environments and utilizations. the article makes clear that the author has never supported either in a high-demand production environment, and his comparisons are misleading and useless.
- bogomill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@WorldGroove
Yes, Firebird does support stored procedures and such. - CypherXero, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6A machine capable of running that configuration does not exist yet...
- SniperSlap, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2That works well for hobbyist servers (I did it!)
But a business almost always has to end up paying for hosting, bandwith blah blah blah... Purchased MS hosting balances out in the end. If you're hosting locally, smart money says the business has already invested in a Windows server setup.
Nothing is more fun than the Gentoo server in my closet solution though ;) - adolfojp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Why did you get mod down? That was both funny and insightful.
[sarcasm]Gotta love Digg's moderation system.[/sarcasm] - twistymcgee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3GamingLab:
I see what you mean now, but when both have a lot of results it doesn't really matter anymore which one has more. There's plenty for either. Personally I prefer PostgreSQL mostly because it's what I'm more experienced with but I think either would be suitable for pretty much any web application these days.
By the way, thanks for the Google Fight website, I missed that one somehow. Now I see where my next few hours are going to be spent.
Appartently I don't know how to reply properly. - fbg111, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2FLPR - FreeBSD, LightTPD, PostgreSQL, Rails
http://flpr.org
I'm looking forward to TurboGears (http://turbogears.com) integrating SQLAlchemy (http://sqlalchemy.org/) too, for a FLPT. - bieber, on 10/12/2007, -9/+11Of course, always a good idea to make your site dependent on proprietary software.
- SniperSlap, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Not to mention it will be LISA for "Longhorn".
- jinushaun, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Ah yes, documentation on MySQL's brand of non-compliant SQL. Yummy.
My frustration with MySQL is that version 5 introduced a lot of much needed SQL functionality (ie. store proc, triggers), but most of the servers I've worked with have really old version of MySQL. Subqueries weren't even available until 4.11 IIRC. Some are still in version 3.x.
MySQL really is the Visual Basic of SQL databases. - Crossmenjeff, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4brick, are you just looking at things in the room and saying you love them?
- icexe, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I use a WIMP myself (Windows/IIS6/MySQL/PHP). I do a lot of ASP and .NET development for work, but I love using PHP for my personal stuff, I also don't need anywhere near the power of MSSQL for personal use so MySQL fits the bill just fine. Having a platform that can seamlessly support all those languages without any hassles means the best of both worlds for me!
- joshpeek, on 10/12/2007, -8/+9MARS (MySQL Apache Rails Solaris)
https://store.joyent.com/products/show/4 - Burmask, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Have you also noticed how digg can slooowww down during the day? Wonder if they need more cycles in their LAMP configuration?
- sorrodos, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6I have been experimenting with Python (rather than PHP) using mod_python. Its nice too.
- brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I can never seem to move away from mod_perl for one primary reason: CPAN (not that I want to).
I dont know of any other language which has such a rich and well organized high-level extension library.
It has saved me hundreds of hours not just in programming time, but in finding, installing, and understanding the interface of the code I need. A lot of languages have vast extension libraries (most of them lower-level overall), some even have decent packaging systems, but I dont know of many which succeed in making the entire process so damn efficient. - samdu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Well, there's BAMP (BSD Apache MySQL PHP). Or LAPP (Linux Apache PostgresSQL PHP). Or any other combination of similar apps/OSes. The big thing is that you don't need to spend a ton of money on Windows, Oracle, MS SQL, IIS, etc... It's not brain surgery.
- m242, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2LAHJ.
Linux, Apache, Hypersonic, Java. Holy cow does that combo give you a fast app. - callumj, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I love it how the Microsoft ads are above, MS has to jump in on everything.
Good idea but could of covered a lot more options, why the heck Solaris? Theres no mention of Python nor mono. - TheAttacks, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5Excuse my ignorance, but what is Firebird exactly?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Lighttpd (perfect for me), Archlinux (great repos and up to date packages), MySQL (just benchmark it) and PHP - LAMP :)
- dyno, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Another alternative would be OpenACS (http://openacs.org), which is an opensource toolkit derived from Phillip Greenspun's ACS - back in the days of Arsdigita. OpenACS is based on Aolserver, TCL, and either PostgreSQL or Oracle. There are plenty of applications that you can use out-of-the-box, or to be used for the basis of a customised application. Kind of like an alternative to PHP Nukes.
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