What is Digg?125 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -21/+62"This is a quote"
,----[ Quote ]
| This
| Is
| Retarded
`---- - baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -6/+37the patent on moduler OSs & kernels wont fly, GNU/Linux already does that and will be considered prior art..
sure it sounds scary & extremely draconian, microsoft is just shooting another bullet in their own foot...
the more microsoft squeezes the more their userbase slips thru their fingers...
i am not invalidating this article, just that i don't think the outcome will be that bad, it will be good for users that leave microsoft for other platform, the only one it is hurting is microsoft... - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -20/+47[quote]By withholding certification, a service provider may manage illegal or undesired modifications to a provided computer. Digital rights management may be used to enforce terms of use of the add-on module in keeping with licensing arrangements.[/quote]
What did I tell you people? I've been posting this repeatedly over the past two weeks, only to be dug down by MS shills like RedLion here. As you can see, he still doesn't want you to realize what MS is up to with Vista's "DRM" system--better known as Trusted Computing.
The "DRM" in Vista is far more than just a system to manage content. MS can block any driver, or even the hardware itself from installing in Vista unless it is certified by MS. This isn't just in Vista+1, it is already functional in Vista. MS chose not to activate that funcationality yet, they won't do it until they've got everyone trapped. (It's a trap)
If you know anyone in the media, tell them about what is hidden inside Vista. If this can be exposed in the mainstream, MS will have to stop it, because consumers aren't going to buy an OS that picks and chooses what software and hardware a user can run based on the whims of MS, Hollywood and the US government!
So-called Trusted Computing is a worse threat to freedom than even Net Non-Neutrality. And it is not just MS involved in this; this is something they want to slowly make standard for all devices so that anything connected to the net can be tracked and controlled.
Make sure hardware vendors know you're not going to put up with this latest round of totalitarian *****. It's going to take great effort to stop this, because there are a few entities, especially the US government and Hollywood, that are dead set on making Trusted Computing into law. - zombiedepot, on 10/12/2007, -8/+28No Vista for me. The day it's required for anything, I'm switching to Linux completely.
- RedLion, on 10/12/2007, -33/+49Oh please, I'm sick of those worst-case scenarios that the usual tinfoil-hat guy imagines in order to trash Microsoft. Let's see what is microsoft really going to do with that patent instead of making up stuff.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18Explain how my comment is "trolling".
Actually, more importantly, explain how Microsoft limiting what you can and can't put on YOUR computer that YOU purchased with YOUR own money as "the ultimate in choice".
Isn't this more of "the ultimate in MICROSOFT'S choice" ?
Can't wait to see these responses. - countmandible, on 11/15/2007, -1/+16@baalzebub
If you read the extended explanation at this page:
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2007012808444146
Microsoft is trying to patent a module delivery system, not the modular OS itself.
So the patent is suggestive of things to come from MS, but no one outside of MS knows what they are planning yet. - paku, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18I agree. In the long run, there is NOTHING Microsoft Vista can offer that other solutions (WinXP, OSX, Ubuntu, Open Office, XBOX360, Wii, MythTV) cannot.
Console gaming is killing most PC gaming except for WoW and Counter-Strike. Microsoft Office on WinXP does everything I need and more. Everything else is open source. Why upgrade?
If Vista doesn't offer something new, which as far as I can tell it doesn't, it will go the way of Microsoft Windows ME. - grubwort, on 10/12/2007, -8/+20How did Palladium pan out? We're about to find out - it *is* five years late, after all.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -7/+18What part of "Vista has the ability to block certain drivers or hardware" translates into "offer users the ultimate in choice" ???
Hell, I might as well RENT a computer instead of BUYING one. - mglmouser, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16The totally off-topic quote discussion does put in light that the quoting and replying system on Digg lacks in feature, or existence altogether.
The ASCII-art used might be might be "retarded" to some (notice the quote ;-) but it did highlight quoted text much better than "" does. The faded blueish background, also, always tricks me to think that the first line or so of a reply is actually quoted.
Digg needs a designer. - noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11If what he says is true I don't care how many 'security experts' say something, not being able to ustilise your hardware is *****.
You guys get pissed about Apple's closed hardware system but seem to be fine with MS having the ability to restrict you to 'approved' hardware manufacturers then dictate how that hardware interacts with your system. They may not do it but based off of his experience, if true, they have the means now. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -10/+19I have a $300 sound card, called the HDA Digital Mystique 7.1 AC3. It's an awseome card.
Vista is a trap for DRM. As a longtime Windows fan, I actually downgraded from Vista to XP Pro because of all the driver (DRM) problems I had.
In a nutshell, all 64-bit drivers must be signed/approved by MS. This allows them to control how the hardware works, including "virtual devices".
Why should you care, you ask. Like ripping DVDs? Making MP3s? What about recording TV shows? This new driver model threatens (and will ultimately stop) your basic ability to do these things. Right now, all you have to do is find a way of installing the drivers (Windows will tell you the install didn't work) and then press "F8" to bypass driver signing (EACH and EVERY time you reboot - as crazy as that is). But in the near future, driver signing will be mandatory, and your old hardware (even if it cost $300 like my sound card) will be worthless, or severely restricted in what it can do.
Side note: ASIO and unmixed audio streams are not supported under Vista. So even if you can convince the people who made your hardware to make an "approved" driver, it will have little functionality. Vista re-samples the audio and provides it's own personal "final mix" before sending it to the sound card for DRM purposes. All those fancy chipsets on your audio card do nothing, because they can't get access to the raw data they need. Nice... - lowerlogic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10We should keep bringing to attention these absurd software patent applications from Microsoft and other companies until it gets enough popularity to reach the mainstream news. If it ever gets that far the whole software patent process might finally be rethought and revised.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13=> Should MS not implement DRM on Vista they would be prosecuted as hell.
I don't understand your statement.
Why Microsoft will get prosecuted for not implementing DRM ?
=> Can your "open source brainwashed mind" understand it?
I am wondering who got brainwashed ?,
What is next Microsoft move ?
Certified Human eyes because RIAA don't want the whole family to watch the movies ?
Guys like you accept every shxt Microsoft throws at you.
Good luck. and good bye, You successfully transformed one guy from Windows to Linux. - chrisharcourt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10'Prior art' - exactly what I was thinking. I'm sure they'll try and get around it, probably through some kind of technical interpretation of exactly how the modularity works/is implemented.
- netdroid9, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Sounds scary, but it's still just a patent. For all we know, Microsoft could be thinking of letting Vista Starter Edition users upgrade their OS to use more RAM or more applications without having to upgrade to the next version of Vista.
At the moment all we have is speculation, and fairly shaky stuff at that. It could easily be a patent for Windows Embedded or something like that. - noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11You forgot your sarcasm tag?
Serriously, "offer users the ultimate choice"? What's that use a computer or don't? They talk about havng to install a module to use more memory for gods sake.
Microsoft was beginning to peak my interest again, but if there's more action on this than just the patent, ***** them, I'm happy where I am. - dirtySi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8To be honest, this patent spunds more like it's intended for the XBOX360, or whatever follows. It sounds very restrictive because the gaming platforms survive on game and hardware sales. No doubt, to ensure that the game publishers (rights holders) choose to continue to invest millions in the development of games and develop for the platform they are trying to patent a system that will allow them to control at the lowest level the hardware and software that can be supported on the kit. By controlling the add-ons, such as memory they can make more money from the hardware and recoup the cost of developing it, supporting it and offering the kit cheap (MS, Sony & Nintendo all lose $$$ on each box, but make up for it with peripheral sales, it's common business).
Before going crazy on what it means for Vista 2, just accept that the embedded OS of things like games consoles, mobile phones, TVs, MP3 players, etc are being developed to rqquire this kind of restriction - to protect the hardware manufacturer's bottom line, the shareholder's interests, the rights holders for the content available. Most companies get a bit pissed when their stuff gets stolen, so they try to protecdt it, and this includes making demands on the people who carry their stuff. After all, everyone is just trying to get rich - it's what all of these companies were started to do. Ultimately it's the system, and the money that causes all of these problems... - Sunsneezer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"It looks like Microsoft wants users to pay separately for every basic OS functionality that they use through some sort of web shop."
Am I the only one who thinks this is a pointless assumption? - mcflynnthm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9OK, I read the legalese over several times, and I don't see where this guy is getting the idea that we have to PAY for each individual OS component, or to upgrade RAM. He's kind of... pulling it out of his ass. The biggest thing I see here is MS trying to set a precedent to not allow drivers and such that are unsigned/unverified to be installed, which, considering the history of Windows getting FUBARed by bad drivers, makes sense. Yes, it makes for more of a closed system, and increases the time between new driver releases (if each has to be verified and signed by MS), but something had to be done to increase the security of these things, which is a blessing to most Windows users (not the power users, who know better than to install things willy-nilly).
I freely admit I may be misreading the patent's content. But I think the guy writing this is going all tin-foil-hat on us here and too many people are treating it as gospel. - akira117, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I agree, I see no reason to upgrade to vista. Not as good gaming performance, DRM, stupid flashy UI.
When I get a new laptop I'm installing Linux for sure.
Microsoft has bent over to the movie industry! - lowerlogic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I guess Microsoft hasn't heard of lsmod
- 1InMany, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8No one can deny that there's a fair amount of DRM and other ***** embedded in Vista ...
and if Steve Ballmer is to be believed (there's "plenty more where that came from"), one can safely bet on a lot of ***** in the coming times ... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"Ruler of the world", "enslaving the ignorant masses", "sucking satans *****".
Man, you should play less WoW and get laid more often. What a nerd! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@ColinY
May be u like microsoft to fxxx ur axx with a stick everytime u play a video, But I don't like it. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8An article published in a site called "Linux News" criticizing Vista. Should I trust it?
- rderveloy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Beep ... Beep ... Beep
This is a test of the emergency F.U.D. announcement system. This is only a test.
Beep ... Beep ... Beep
This has been a test of the emergency F.U.D. announcement system. Had there actually been any real direct evidence to abnormally fear, be uncertain about, or doubt something, official instructions would have followed.
We now resume your regularly scheduled program, digg, already in progress.... - ray901, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4***** you for spamming viceroes - get out of my digg space - blocked you turd
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"""DRM in drivers. LOLZ!!!
What else shall OSS whores and Apple shills invent to bash Vista?"""
So what you're saying is that all this time you haven't had the slightest idea what the DRM problems with Vista are, but you've been shooting your mouth off anyway?
Yes, ***OBVIOUSLY*** DRM in drivers. That is the CENTRAL UNDERLYING CONCEPT of the DRM problem, and has been very clearly specified and _stipulated by Microsoft_ as a requirement.
This is from Microsoft themselves to hardware/driver vendors, and it would be impossible for you to have even read what Microsoft themselves have to say about it without knowing this.
Do you have any idea what people have been talking about all this time? Do you know what DRM is? Do you know what content protection is? Do you know what TCP is intended to be?
Do you know what a computer is?
Seriously, why the hell have you been trying to "correct" people about it if you have no idea WTF what any of this stuff actually means or what the debate is actually about? - mikesbaker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5mac charges you for firmware updates already fanyboy
- godzilla808, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6naio21: I think you're being facetious, but just so others don't take you seriously here's some additional info:
To start with, a basic definition of DRM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Rights_Management
"Digital Rights Management... refers to any of several technologies used by publishers or copyright owners to control access to and usage of digital data or hardware, and to restrictions associated with a specific instance of a digital work or device."
Since the drivers are signed, the digital certs can be revoked, right? So if **AA states that a driver/hardware combination allows bypassing copyright protection, and Microsoft revokes the driver, doesn't that fit the definition above?
For more details, Google "Protected Media Path"
Note: I use Linux, Mac, and Windows equally -- no whoring or shilling for one in particular. Some of the stuff in Vista just gives me the creeps, though. - straxus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"I don't understand your statement. Why Microsoft will get prosecuted for not implementing DRM ?"
"Maybe because the record companies and movie industry wouldn't like it."
Don't be dense. No one is going to sue Microsoft for not implementing DRM. If Microsoft were to *bypass* DRM to playback protected content, certainly. But that's not what you said. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Is this article trying to define FUD or something?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Good point Paku, there is very little reason to upgrade to Vista if you already have a secure PC. Office 2007 will run on XP so that isn't a big motivator. I suppose over time that more and more things will be dedicated to Vista but for now there is little reason to upgrade UNLESS you are a novice who would really benefit from the greater level of security. So far I have not read anything that would make me want to upgrade.
Now, if they came up with something killer like natural voice recognition (that actually works) that would be something I'd be willing to upgrade both my hardware and software for. - subgeniusd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Arguing with Astroturfers is pointless.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13@noahhoward:
No sarcasm tag from 7of7. He comments on Digg as if he were Steve Ballmer's personal man whore. - motters, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3As a robotics hobbyist who attaches all kinds of things to computers the idea that the operating system might not support non-standard hardware is worrying. If excessive use of DRM makes the Windows OS no longer fit for purpose then I'll just have to go with Linux.
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"""microsoft hasn't restricted the hardware"""
"""even that paper is full of worst-case scenarios and most of them have been debunked by developers of the vista blog (like the myth that super audio CDs will be stopped by Vista's DRM (they are simply unsupported on Vista), the myth that Vista's DRM can interfere with other applications and the myth that vista DRM eats CPU even when you're not playing protected media)."""
Isn't it funny how the concept of "debunking" has become synonymous with "lying" these days?
Just so you know, the marketing spiel you're spouting has largely been "debunked" by Microsoft themselves.
Their content protection spec, and what they've said, clearly state that hardware WILL be limited by Vista's DRM, and that other programs will be interfered with.
Let's take something we can encapsulate in a small question for you:
Please explain how echo cancellation in 3rd party apps would be affected where Vista that wasn't doing both of those things. - truck87bp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Nerds might appreciate this: To my Family
As a Geek and your free Windows I.T. support for many years, I'm am sad to say that I will NOT be supporting the new release of Microsoft Windows Vista. Microsoft has relied heavily on myself and other family geeks to keep their product look like Shining Armour which we all know it isn't but its still pretty good. No more free ride for MS Vista.
MS thinks they own everything, the Internet, the Hardware Manufactures, the MS Geeks and I for one have truly had it with their attitude, their Monopoly and their way of doing strong arm business. MS helped make the Internet into what we have today but time has a way of changing everything.
I have no intentions of ever buying the Vista software, so if you need support, you will have to pay for the privilege of using Vista through the Microsoft Support Center after the, free support time frame runs out or Google your problem and try to fix it yourself or find some neighbor kid Geek to help you.
I will support you with all previous flavors of windows, XP, 2000, Me, 98, 95 and Bruno on his windows 3.11, 1989 IBM laptop that's still going strong.
Soon, I will be supporting some New Improved Linux Operating Systems that are as good as windows and all free of charge, oh yes, you can download them for 32 bit or 64 bit computers or I will burn a CD or DVD for you depending on what ends up being best for your needs or normal computing if you decide to switch to Linux like myself.
Personally, I'm betting on Linux Debian Ubuntu flavors because I've already tried their 6.10 release and its very easy to use and not very hard to learn at all, it just looks and works a little different. - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -19/+22This whole thing reminds me of a recent article, which foresees what it calls "Consumer Control Gear".
Cost analysis of Vista DRM: Part II
,----[ Quote ]
| Microsoft doesn't merely use DRM. To all intents and purposes it
| is DRM, better known as Digital Rights Management, Digital
| Restrictions Management or or just plain CRAP for Content
| Restriction, Annulment, and Protection, as ZDNet's David
| Berlind called it, eventually deferring to Richard Stallman's
| Cancellation, Restriction, and Punishment. We call it, simply,
| CCG, short for Consumer Control Gear.
`----
http://p2pnet.net/story/10827 - mcflynnthm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Enough is enough, viceroes. Blocked!
- subgeniusd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Obviously MSFT beefed up the Astroturf Squad for the big Vista party. You are arguing with con artists.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7naio21: Kernel access to drivers has been removed, which is why ASIO and similar programs no longer work. The express purpose is to stop "rogue drivers" from intercepting protected path content. M$ have tied the DRM concept to the driver framework itself, which is as much genius as it is treachery.
- noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3amen
- noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3You're absolutely right... but I'm not sure I even like the fact thatthey have thought about it.
- NeoRicen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3NO WHERE does that say a payment will be a required.
Sure it sounds bad but a patent is merely a patent until it becomes a product, we've yet to see how much of this will be implemented. All this says is that Microsoft reserves the right to use the contents of the patent, not that the next version of Windows will entirely lock people in this way. Microsofts over use of DRM isn't really malicious it strikes me as being more a desperate attempt to get the trust of the media companies in an attempt to become a major media player. The RIAA and MPAA are the ones responsible for all this DRM nonsense. MS is merely trying to get their favour.
Besides that may not necassarily be for Windows, it could be for Xbox, Zune or perhaps an unannounced product - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Actually, I'm saving to buy a MacBook Pro right now. There is NO way I'm upgrading to Vista. And once I have my MBP and all the software I need, I'm turning my XP Pro Thinkpad into an Ubuntu machine. Anything I have to have that's Windows only will most likely run under WINE...or I can just dual boot my MBP with XP or run XP under Parallels.
Goodbye MS. "Nice" knowing ya. - noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Congratulations, dirtySi, for being the first person to bring attention to another possibility without foaming at the mouth. Good point.
*damn... when I get no sleep I type one word but see another... fun. - NeoRicen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Um, no it isn't, barely anyone is rating Vista that great. There's tons of stories on Digg complaining about it and you're accusing it of being 'over rated'? Please.
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