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- SEMW, on 10/12/2007, -2/+77I'm sory, but as much as I like Ubuntu (though I've yet to try Feisty; I'm waiting for the RC); "Buy a new PC" should never be the right answer to any operating system problem. And that applies to Windows just as it does to Linux distros.
- scooter12, on 10/12/2007, -9/+43@smackywentz
You are switching them from Vista to Ubuntu? They purchased licenses for Vista ~2.5 months ago and the just said ok for the switch to Ubuntu? Seems a little hard to believe. - smackywentz, on 10/12/2007, -13/+47I just switched this past weekend to Ubuntu Feisty from XP on my Dell Inspiron 2200 and I absolutely love it! Wireless was ridiculously easy to set up and everything seems to work fine. I run IT at a company in Arlington and I'm switching them from Vista to Ubuntu this weekend. I thought open source would be horrible and all you fanboys were crazy, but I just drank the Kool-Aid and am askin' for seconds.
- NX910a, on 10/12/2007, -6/+31"I’ve had my idiot-zealot phase (”nothing but Linux is good enough”), but fortunately have left that far behind me."
Many, many other people should do this - Jorlwind, on 10/12/2007, -7/+31It's not a bad review, but I'm a bit disgusted by the way he treats it as a full desktop without a disclaimer (WAIT).
It's a BETA, it is not meant for critical review, its meant for testing, ironing out bugs and (perhaps) a bit of previewing. Its not fair to the development team at this point to review Feisty in this manner until it's released to the masses. Almost all betas will have bugs that won't stand up to a critical eye. - sishgupta, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24While I agree to an extent, with only 8 days left before release, and one before the RC, things should be almost as smooth as possible by now.
- ClayDragon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23No mouse click at all:
cat /proc/cpuinfo - userundefine, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26I don't think he's saying Linux isn't ready for the desktop. He claims he's been a linux user since 1993 so presumably he uses it for his desktop. He's pointing out some shortcomings though that I think are valid. For example, there should definitely be a GUI tool to add new resolutions instead of sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf. I see this all the time in the Ubuntuforums. I hope the next release takes this into consideration.
Apart from that, I think he adds extraneous information like dynamic multi-monitor support. First of all, it seems like an unusual complaint. How many typical users are there dying for this? I boot up my laptop from hibernated state (Feisty beta, never had a keyboard issue on the Dell Inspiron 6000) and just do standard computer things: browse web, write a few documents, etc. It's not my main computer, but that's not the point. On the other hand, if something that trivial is all there is to complain about, then it speaks volumes about how good the support for typical users is getting.
Ubuntu is getting better all the time. I'm sure the next release will be even better. - sishgupta, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17The guys first problem with xorg not doing widescreen out of the box is an xorg problem and should be fixed with xorg 7.3 which is due out during the feisty+1 development cycle so expect it in the next release of feisty. The next version of xorg is definitely something to keep an eye out for as it should make a relatively huge impact for the linux desktop.
It should be noted that the review is very machine based. On both of my computers feisty is flawless, but as always your mileage may vary depending on your hardware. I would recommend testing the livecd for your self and reviewing it on your own hardware. Your experience may be quite different from this reviewers. - Schpariel, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19He keeps blaming his ATi-graphics related problems on Linux!. Everyone knows that the official ATi drivers cause HUGE problems - it isn't Linux's fault if you have a ***** graphics card with ***** drivers.
BTW, ATi said that AIGLX is never going to be supported with the official drivers.
Next time buy a nVidia card instead of bitching about ATi problems in Linux. - SEMW, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15> Next time buy a nVidia card instead of bitching about ATi problems in Linux.
OK, I'll be sure to go back in time 3 years and tell my other self that I will want to experiment with Linux in 3 years time and not to buy an ATi graphics card.
Sorry, that's a load of crap. ATi accounts for, what -- at least a third of all graphics card sold, at a guess? Tell people to buy a new graphics card to run Linux, and they'll tell you to sod off, and go back to XP.
Now, trogdoor's comment:
> Please, stop telling people to learn the syntax of /etc/X11/xorg.conf. Unless they need to set up dual monitor support ( which I will admit is still a PITA )
> they will NEVER need to touch it. [...]
> If you have an ATi card and you aren't getting full resolution, install fglrx, restart X, enjoy
Now that's a bit better! Finally, a useful and informative comment. All those currently whining "It's not Linux, it's ATi, get an nVidia card!" -- stop whining and memorise the sentence "If you have an ATi card and you aren't getting full resolution, install fglrx, restart X, enjoy". Modded up. - pingveno, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Dynamic multi-monitor is extremely useful for someone who does presentations using a projector. Being able to put your laptop on a table, connect a monitor cable, and click a few buttons to start your presentation is invaluable. Linux's difficulties in this area is one reason that I keep a dual boot system (the other being application support, including games).
- plagiats, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I guess because checking "what is my CPU ?" is not the main question you ask yourself on a daily basis. "Where is that application to write spreadsheets?" or "How do I check my e-mails" seems more relevant. Don't they?
- rageguy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12This article does make some valid points, particularly in regards to setting up monitors and graphics drivers.
I'm sure the Ubuntu team could implement something similar to the wireless situation where proprietary graphics drivers are automagically installed, screen resolutions could be detected from a hardware database, xorg configurations are created by an easily accessible wizard. - trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13"I'm sure the Ubuntu team could implement something similar to the wireless situation where proprietary graphics drivers are automagically installed, screen resolutions could be detected from a hardware database, xorg configurations are created by an easily accessible wizard."
They already have, it's called the Restricted Drivers Manager and it's available in Feisty, the author simply didn't use it. ( a little dialog box will come up telling you that you need proprietary drivers to get full support for your hardware, check the box next to ATi/Nvidia driver and it will be installed and configured )
BTW, I have helped a lot of people on #Ubuntu who have had resolution problems and it always irritates me that the first thing that everyone else suggests when someone says that they can't get resolution X is to open their /etc/X11/xorg.conf and add resolution X.... the reason why it irritates me is that every single time ( without exception ) that resolution is already there and the real problem is that they don't have the correct drivers for their card installed.
Please, stop telling people to learn the syntax of /etc/X11/xorg.conf. Unless they need to set up dual monitor support ( which I will admit is still a PITA ) they will NEVER need to touch it. Ubuntu does an excellent job of configuring GFX cards, but no amount of configuration is going to get the hardware to work without the correct drivers.
If you have an ATi card and you aren't getting full resolution, install fglrx, restart X, enjoy
If you have an Nvidia card and you aren't getting full resolution, install the nvidia driver , restart X, enjoy
If you have an Intel card and you aren't getting full resolution, install 915resolution, restart X, enjoy - justnick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9yeah, that is definitely a show stopper for me as well. I was gonna switch but when I found out it took more than 3 clicks to see what proc I was using, I gave up.
seenxu -- In XP it is 3 unless you have a my computer icon on your desktop, then it is 2. - generalloy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"I am talking about mouse clicks and not about command line.
All naive users prefer mouse clicks to access any feature."
Copy that command line into a shell script. Boom, all you have to do is double click :)
(I'm sure you could output it graphically as well, somehow) - paulmdx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"I run IT at a company in Arlington and I'm switching them from Vista to Ubuntu this weekend."
*Please* report back on what the result is on Monday. I can't wait to hear what happens.
I'm going to go to the trouble of adding you as a friend just so I can digg your article. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Here's how i extended battery on a buddys laptop
sudo gedit /etc/default/acpi-support
change ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=false to true
Enable extra repos if you haven't already and
sudo apt-get install laptop-mode laptop-mode-tools laptop-detect cpufreqd
and do a restart.
Helped him out. Hopefully it'll work for you. - blamar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@truegodofwar
That's not completely true in all cases. My Linksys NIC with a Broadcom 4306 chipset still needs ndiswrapper to provide full functionality. Although I'll admit that the wireless support has grown leaps and bounds with this release. - roosterjm2k2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7What people don't understand, is that is doesnt matter who is to blame for problems.
So technically, its ATI's fault that their cards don't work well with their drivers in linux. Ok.
You know what, most people don't care. All they know, is that their video card doesnt work well in linux. End of story. It works in windows, it doesnt work in linux, windows > linux to them.
It works, really, in any situation (that logic i mean). Say you buy a nice new $2000 radio for your car. (this is just analogy, so dont go nuts over the details). Say the radio is slightly larger than the normal form factor. Now, its time to buy a new car. You find 2 cars that suit your needs. Now, 1 car, even though on the important merits may be less desirable, will work with your nice expensive radio. The other car, while technically better, wont. The reason it wont, is that the stereo is too big. Its the stereo manufacturers fault. The other car just happens to work, and the better (technically) car, though perfectly within standards, wont work. Do you buy a new stereo? Or do you just go with the other car.
Depending on what you know about cars, you may buy another stereo, but if your just trying to drive from point a to point b and listen to a kickass stereo in the process, you might just buy the lower quality car to keep your stereo.
The point? Doesnt matter who you blame, blame is irrelevant. It works in one, it doesnt in the other, end of story.
As tech-friendly folks, we tend to forget that...that most people just DO NOT CARE ... they just want a system that works without problems or the need to tweak it.
Personally, it doesnt bother me. A have laptop, with an ATI Mobile card in it...and a widescreen ... fglrx had it perfect within 5 minutes of finishing the core install of ubuntu (dapper in this case) ... so no real complaints from me. Even the dual monitor setup (i connect it to a 20" widescreen lcd when im home) caused little to no trouble. But, I know what I'm doing and Im comfortable working with it.
Linux will never rise to the top untill people realize that the opinions of the majority of linux users right now doen't count for *****. We're biased, we have a greater knowledge of how to use the system and how to tweak it to our needs, and we don't represent the kind of people that need to be convinced of linux before It can become top dog. - jma06, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@cherubim
Do you even know what the word "retard" means? Contrary to what you seem to think, it does not mean anyone who thinks different from you.
Perhaps you can't see it, but the reviewer shows enough expertise through the review in trouble-shooting and seems to be meticulous in describing problems he encountered as well as link to known bug reports. He has done his homework before starting to write. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6This was exactly my experience. I ended up searching online to change the resolution and found out about this xorg.conf nonsense. So I added, my resolution to xorg.conf and guess what happens? Nothing! It still didn't show up in the list of resolutions I could change too. I had to download resapplet, just to change the resolution. A normal windows users would not be so dedicated. In Windows this just works. How come linux can't be like this?
Also, I still don't know how to fix the battery life. - emblemparade, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Sigh. I'm tired of reviews of free operating systems always beginning with "installation" and hardware woes. This is so unfair and not "balanced" at all! When you buy a desktop or laptop with Windows pre-installed, you can be sure that all the right drivers are there and more or less tested.
A more balanced review would either start with a machine pre-installed with a free operating system, *or* would give a more honest thought as to what it takes to get hardware set up on Windows. From many years of experience with various versions of Windows, I can tell you that you're OK as long as you're have drivers for the current version of the operating system. Older or newer hardware often would require much wrangling and registry editing and weird things to get it to work. Yes, just like with free operating systems.
We're in a weird situation today where people are "switching" to free operating systems. That is, they bought a computer in which all the hardware was Windows-ready, and now are trying to shove a free operating system onto it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The truth is that there are Linux drivers for a vast variety of hardware, including a lot of old hardware that isn't supported well in newer versions of Windows. But the lists don't match.
Perhaps with the new pre-installed Dell machines coming out, we will soon see reviews of free operating systems without the unfair "swtiching" prelude. When that happens, it's inevitable that reviews will be glowing, even when it comes to hardware. Hey, my webcam worked in Ubuntu as soon as I plugged it in. It never worked properly in Windows XP. - trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I have helped a lot of people on #Ubuntu who have had resolution problems and it always irritates me that the first thing that everyone else suggests when someone says that they can't get resolution X is to open their /etc/X11/xorg.conf and add resolution X.... the reason why it irritates me is that every single time ( without exception ) that resolution is already there and the real problem is that they don't have the correct drivers for their card installed.
Please, stop telling people to learn the syntax of /etc/X11/xorg.conf. Unless they need to set up dual monitor support ( which I will admit is still a PITA ) they will NEVER need to touch it. Ubuntu does an excellent job of configuring GFX cards, but no amount of configuration is going to get the hardware to work without the correct drivers.
If you have an ATi card and you aren't getting full resolution, install fglrx, restart X, enjoy
If you have an Nvidia card and you aren't getting full resolution, install the nvidia driver , restart X, enjoy
If you have an Intel card and you aren't getting full resolution, install 915resolution, restart X, enjoy - Izacus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5That pretty much sums up Ubuntu experience on my Toshiba laptop also. Including the crap-working external display support over ATi drivers, awful battery life even with all power-saving turned on and still crappy wireless support (I have to switch between ad-hoc, EAP protected and WPA2 protected networks. The Wireless manager works only with the last mentioned).
Nice work for Ubuntu team, but still not good enough. - DigitalJester, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Good balanced read. Now, lets get this guy to do more decent reviews. Not, OMFG! Tis ubutnu! LOL. I liked this article. I might actually give Feisty a go.
- aprice2704, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Interesting and realistic review -- it echos my own experiences with my Dell 5150 (using Edgy though).
I have to say that some of the problems are just as likely to occur during a Windows install on a randomly chosen set of hardware. The last time I tried a Windows install it was much harder to get going than Edgy.
I am much looking forward to Feisty!! - ajifans, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4To be fair Toshiba products are among the most linux-unfriendly on the market. Their new motherboards (made by Phoenix) lock you out if you try and install another OS on them.
You can't judge the quality of the product when you're using hardware that was designed to make life difficult for anyone who dares not use Microsoft. - Izacus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Whoo, guess what. My problems have nothing to do with BIOS (and yes, I have the newest version of Phoenix BIOS... it only made sure all special keys work out of the box on Vista). I believe you was told in comments on that article, that it was just a pile of *****.
Mobility Radeon X1600 is the same as in all other laptops, and the same problem remains on all other laptops with this graphics card. Same with wireless, the 3945ABG is standard centrino wireless. It CAN connect to those networks, but I always have to manually invoke the wpa_supplicant or maiually set ad-hoc settings with iwconfig for it to work. Where's the autmatic roaming between those networks (which we have since... eeer... Windows XP SP2? Or even waaay before if you used the software with wireless card)? Not to mention the per-network firewall profiles which autmatically change in Vista. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"sooo because you couldn't figure out how to change your resolution, Linux sucks..."
I didn't say that. I actually got it too work...after 20 minutes of dicking around on the internet and messing with the terminal. My point is that small problems like this cause most windows users to give up. With only a little bit of effort these problems can be fixed. - Izacus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Well, as I said. Netowork manager does not support Ad-hoc or the authentication used on the EAP network, so it's useless for me (since I have to manually setup settings each time or run a script).
- chicken101, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Feisty is all kinds of awesome. For me (with an ati gfx card), desktop effects worked even when I was in the live cd.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2For me things are more intuitive in KDE and everything it alot more customizable. Kickoff is the best menu I've ever used. Other than that I guess I love Konqueror, Amarok and Konversation. Not a big fan of Kmail though.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Read the article. WPA works out of the box, just type your password in the little box. I can personally confirm this.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5I like OpenSuSE (using 10.2 now) but I'm itching to see if they can make Kubuntu better as I like ubuntu's way of doing things better than SuSE's, but prefer KDE to Gnome.
Nice to see it's coming along nicely and it looks like Edgy -> Feisty is going to be a much bigger leap than Dapper -> Edgy was.
Will the Kickoff menu be in Kubuntu 7.04 by default? I like it alot.
My mouth is watering waiting for Feisty Final... - cesclaveria, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2go ahead and try Kubuntu, I have been a happy user since the one before dapper (dont quiet remember the name right now) and I have never looked back to Gnome (even tough, I like it, but KDE suits me better)
- Spudster, on 06/26/2008, -0/+1These guys raise a good point. If we're ever going to have an open source OS be successful, it HAS to be designed from the ground up as both functional and user friendly.
- 661p, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Balanced yeah, but still pretty positive! I'm definately trying Feisty
- poodbrown, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Good Review, nicely put together.
- Casedot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1i dont know, i tried Kubuntu but I really got around in Gnome faster. I learned linux on gnome so i am partial to it i guess.
- Morphinity, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3This could be the first time I use Linux. I've tried before, but I couldn't figure out how to get it to install.
- generalloy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"
Mobility Radeon X1600 is the same as in all other laptops, and the same problem remains on all other laptops with this graphics card. Same with wireless, the 3945ABG is standard centrino wireless. It CAN connect to those networks, but I always have to manually invoke the wpa_supplicant or maiually set ad-hoc settings with iwconfig for it to work. Where's the autmatic roaming between those networks (which we have since... eeer... Windows XP SP2? Or even waaay before if you used the software with wireless card)? Not to mention the per-network firewall profiles which autmatically change in Vista."
ATI is unfriendly to radeon and only the reverse engineered open source drivers work well, with the caveat that they support new cards (like your X1600) slowly.
Automatic roaming, WPA? What about network-manager-gnome? It's default in Feisty Fawn and you can install it from Dapper Drake on, if you like... - digitalghost1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I'm using Edgy for my desktop and dual booted on my Laptop with XP. I find it annoying in my noob-knowledge of Linux, the fact that my wireless 3945ABG on my HP Laptop nw8440 doesn't turn ON from within Ubuntu Edgy. I have to enable it in XP, reboot and then Ubuntu Edgy will 'see' it (????) and allow me to connect to my WEP secured wireless network. Otherwise the wireless NIC is not even available as a piece of hardware from the network-gnome-manager.
So, I agree with the article Ubuntu on laptop has some work, the desktop box end support is pretty strong. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I do this same test every release and never get beyond wireless. I have WPA, and while I can take my laptop downstairs to plug it in, I don't think I should have to.
You tend to lose interest pretty quick when ya can't get connected. I'm always left with the "well, there's always next time" thought.
Then I just go back to using my old distro. I love the theory behind the Live CDs and whatnot, but when you can't get it to work 100% out of the box, it tends to make itself look bad. - Casedot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1can i ask why you like KDE over gnome? I'm curious because i always thought gnome was better for whatever reason. I like how it separates the different categories of apps in the panel as opposed to the old fashioned "start menu"
- bipolar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@roosterjm2k2
"It works, really, in any situation (that logic i mean). Say you buy a nice new $2000 radio for your car. (this is just analogy, so dont go nuts over the details). Say the radio is slightly larger than the normal form factor. Now, its time to buy a new car."
Hmmm.... that would be *your* fault for buying a head unit in a non standard form factor. They *do* actually have standard sizes for head units. I know, that completely bypasses the point you were trying to make, but it does bring up another one. If you don't follow standards, it will bite you in the ass eventually. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"Read the article."
Reread my post. I was referring to current and past releases of Ubuntu. - unsolicited, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4You guys really are not concerned about naive users.
You are hard wired for developers. -
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