What is Digg?106 Comments
- mentat0, on 07/21/2008, -3/+98No live cds on the list? Your average (read: dumb) user probably won't figure out how to use a VM or Cygwin, but it's certainly easier to download an iso, burn it, make sure the cd is in the drive, an reboot.
- mrblue182, on 07/21/2008, -2/+68Live CD? WAY easier than virtualization (imo) and less of a risk than installing programs.
- MoanRanger, on 07/21/2008, -6/+39FAIL! for not putting up Live Cd's as a first choice which is a fool proof choice for windoz users, as they seem to mess everything up!
- inactive, on 07/21/2008, -2/+27Wubi rocks, its not 100% stable tho.. but still worth a look-see.
- rmxz, on 07/21/2008, -1/+19Ouch what a bad article.
Each of these methods will leave the person with a bad impression.
The article's first suggestion (cygwin) has nothing to do with Linux except that it includes some GNU utilities that Linux happens to also include. It has as much to do with FreeBSD or Solaris as it does with Linux.
The other two methods the article suggested will give the user the impression that linux is more sluggish than it is; since neither method gives decent access to the hardware (not only the graphics chip for compviz, etc; but even hard drives, etc).
If Windows user here wants to try out linux - please ignore that article altogether and use the advice of a LiveCD that many others gave in these comments. - bodycoach2, on 07/21/2008, -0/+16Most Windows users are gamers? I didn't realize there were more gamers than business people using Windows. THAT explains the economic problems in the USA!!
- wontstoptalking, on 07/21/2008, -0/+10I think that was a mistake.
- Tenoq, on 07/21/2008, -1/+10You're assuming they know how to change the BIOS to boot from a CD - as more often than not new PCs are configured to boot HDD first.... :p
- mrblue182, on 07/21/2008, -3/+12Oh really? Then I must be the exception. (Oh, and most windows users don't game. Most don't know what steam is.)
- inactive, on 07/21/2008, -6/+15If someone can't discover linux on his own by curiosity then he's not made for that type of learning experience. Most Windows users are gamers and gamers don't waste their time discovering new non-gaming OS's
- IrvineKinneas50, on 07/21/2008, -15/+23I've tried Linux twice and I'm relatively tech-savvy and it was honestly just a gigantic pain in the ass. Once I found out that making ZSNES work on Linux was a five-minute process which required me to use command-line to re-compile (or something) the exe so it would run in Linux, I gave up. I'm sure this gets simpler after I do it a hundred thousand times, but it's not intuitive whatsoever. I'm going to go ahead and recommend that you don't waste your time trying Linux unless you're prepared to invest a lot of time into learning how to do things that take a double-click on Windows.
I'm prepared to get dugg down into oblivion, but it's the truth. Linux is a gigantic pain in the ass. - trollick, on 07/21/2008, -1/+9VirtualBox FTW
- WhiskeyLemur, on 06/30/2009, -2/+9Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Linux was never intended to be "newbie friendly." The very philosophy behind it seems to be customization and flexibility, both of which require a certain amount of familiarity with computers and how to make them do what you want them to do - and not just as an end-user. If all you need is a machine to run your web browser, word processor, and perhaps a couple of games, is it really worth the headache of working around an OS which is not immediately compatible with a large number of drivers?
Not that I'm thrilled with the bloated behemoth that is Vista, but since I'm a gamer, Ubuntu isn't a viable alternative anyway. I'm also not terribly tech savvy (and I'm sort of okay with that, having neither the time nor the inclination to delve into the details), so I need on OS which will take care of the background stuff for me. I realize that Linux gives you much more versatility than Windows can ever dream of, and unshackles you from the MS monopoly, but I'm not running anything so heavy-duty that it makes Vista lag noticeably. So - Ubuntu may be a superior OS as a whole, but it's too high-maintenance for the average user, and no amount of ports will change that any time soon, as far as I can tell. - darthjure, on 07/21/2008, -0/+7Live CDs are easy. You put it in the CD drive and reboot your pc. When you're done, reboot (it will automatically open the CD drive at the end so you can remove the CD) and it goes back to your native OS. Order one for free from Ubuntu. https://shipit.ubuntu.com/
However, in my case Ubuntu didn't recognize my wireless card so I couldn't go online. (Help was also online so I couldn't get any questions answered while booted to Linux.) You also can't save anything to the harddrive. It allowed me to try the user interface but not much else. - DickBreath, on 07/21/2008, -0/+7Virtual PC 2007's emulation of an S3 video card is only 16 bit graphics. This causes Linux live CD's not to work. You need a live CD that will boot up in text mode. Then VIM the /etc/X11/xorg.conf file and change screen depth from 32 to 16. Then do startX.
Much better is just to skip Microsoft Virtual PC tardware. - martinc00, on 07/21/2008, -0/+6Agreed but Live CD's lack a little in functionality and performance
- xptweakerntn, on 07/22/2008, -2/+8Oh really? That's sorta odd. I always thought virus's, spyware, defragmenting, and proprietary kernels were a pain in the ass. I guess I was wrong, because you just told me otherwise.
- inactive, on 07/22/2008, -1/+7I am kinda the same way. I don't want to notice my OS. I want it to get the hell out of my way and let me run my apps. XP runs like a tank at this point and I see no reason to stop using it.
- liljay2k, on 07/21/2008, -0/+6MS Virtual PC would not load on my Vista box (MS VPC can not find msxml 6). blah, so I just installed Virtual box which is great so far.
- hwy9nightkid, on 07/21/2008, -1/+7CYGWIN is garbage, it wouldn't let anyone know what linux is
- wontstoptalking, on 07/21/2008, -1/+7I would prefer VMs over Live CDs due to the fact that you get to see the install process (that scares away a bunch of would be linux users) and Live CDs do not always run very fast. Granted, VMs don't run as fast as the machines capabilites, but they are able to run at a higher resolution at a faster speed.
- dandonia, on 07/22/2008, -0/+5You ofton don't need to visit the bios - half the time it says - press F(number) to change boot sequance - people can see that.
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I get what you're say though but mentat0 is right - it's the easiest way to win
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on a seperate not I need to install cygwin now. - Epistaxis, on 07/22/2008, -0/+4Um, what year do you live in?
- Sharik, on 07/21/2008, -0/+4It's a trap!
- Doji, on 07/22/2008, -2/+6Why the hell were you using an exe in Linux? I just checked Ubuntu's repos, and ZSNES is in there. Open the package manager, search for zsnes, check it, and hit apply.
Damn. That was easy. - PhytoPhyter, on 07/21/2008, -0/+4Virtual PC has sub-par support for Linux. Puppy Linux, which is relatively lightweight, took FOREVER to boot. It even froze on some occasions.
- someguy92, on 07/21/2008, -0/+3Sure you can tweak the look of the gui to make it like xp or osx, but that's the point of it all. You have a choice.
- mvent2, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3No it isn't.
- secrity, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3Solaris and FreeBSD are UNIX; Linux is Unix-like, and Cygwin is a unique sort of Linux. Cygwin sucks ass as an OS, but it is great for adding Linux capabilities to a Windows environment.
- dizilbdog, on 07/21/2008, -5/+8How about for a ehm Mac guy?? I'd like to try Linux
- marx2k, on 07/22/2008, -2/+5Most PCs are defaulted to boot from 1) external USB 2) CD 3) HD, in that order
- sublimemm, on 07/21/2008, -0/+3there is a digg submission with a video of that :)
- ilikechaitea, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3i disagree...WUBI could literally not be easier, and it sorts out the whole booting thing for you, and runs closer to native than a VM.
Plus the article is talking about "trying" linux....WUBI's easy - inactive, on 07/22/2008, -4/+7Your tech-savvy and you say re-compile (or something)? :P There are packages for Redhat, Mandriva, Debian, Ubuntu and probably more for Zsnes. Guess your tech-savvyness couldn't direct your ass to the package manager.
- bradleyland, on 07/22/2008, -0/+3As convenient and interesting as Live CDs are, they don't represent a very good picture of the performance Linux has to offer. If your average user booted up a Live CD, they'd think that Linux was a slow loading troll of an operating system.
Honestly, there's no really _good_ way for someone to try Linux on their existing PC that is within reach of the average user. However, I have been receiving a lot of questions about the new line of netbooks coming from Asus, MSI, and HP. I think this is one segment where a lot of new users will be exposed to Linux, and I think Microsoft and Apple had better pay attention to this market segment, because it could be a serious thorn in their side as people become more comfortable with them. - Kral, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2It's not garbage, it's an incredible tool, but it's absolutely not appropriate for someone trying out Linux.
- marx2k, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2Armitage2k: so those people are stuck with the OS they have on the drive and if that gets wiped they throw out the computer? What?
- InorganicMatter, on 07/21/2008, -3/+5I'm going to play devil's advocate and say Live CDs don't belong here. No Live CD out there includes proper graphics drivers and enables Compiz by default. (Speaking of which, why can't anyone get this right? Just include the damn binary drivers, no one cares that they are close source.) Even Ubuntu, which makes the install process painless, still requires a reboot after installing (not possible on a Live CD). Having the user's first impression of Linux be a slow Live CD with crippled hardware support is not a good thing.
Virtualization is a far better way to try it, especially since OpenSUSE and Ubuntu include VMware-tools by default if they detect they are in a VM. - MattBD, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2Virtualbox is the best bet.
- Ademan, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2At least in my experience, the newer the computer the more likely it will boot from a cd first, however i know of at least 2 older (see 7 and 4 years old) dells defaulted to booting from the hdd first.
- ephekt, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2"Um, what year do you live in?"
2008, where I still have to edit config files to get certain things to work(sudoers for example), manually setup SAMBA and inevitably compile certain programs (iperf, deCSS etc). I will say that noob distros like Ubuntu will work more or less out the box if you only surf the web and read email, but I use my PC for a lot more than that. - Armitage2k, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2So they can't change a setting in the bios, but can recompile an app in Cygwin?!?! LOL!! Also, if he can't change a BIOS setting... then he wont be able to install Linux anyhow.... as you have to boot to CD... and who would want to install linux if they can't even research how to boot from CD??
- Knet88, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2Wow, no flamers showing up yet, is this a record for the past few weeks. It seems like every Linux article that goes up gets attacked instantly.
- Rolcol, on 07/22/2008, -2/+4An OEM install of Windows is harder than linux sometimes when your hardware doesn't work. You have to hunt down drivers. Sometimes the drivers aren't in the same place because if the computer came with Vista, there may not be any XP drivers.
- Hella, on 07/21/2008, -0/+2Virtualization is surprisingly easy. You don't even have to waste a CD. Download VirtualBox and create snapshots at milestones. This way if you mess something up you can just revert everything you changed. And you get almost full power except for graphics.
- korvins, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2Buried for mentioning Cygwin as a real and "easy" method to run "powerfull real Linux applications". Also for mentioning "cygwin1.dll, which acts as a Linux API emulation layer." as the easiest method to try out Linux. Do you want to scare Windows users about Linux or what?
If a windows user tries Cygwin is going to be really scared about linux for the rest of their lives. This guy did not have a clue about what is Linux.
Only Wubi is considered a good method. Virtual Machine could be put in the last place and it should include LiveCDs as other people mentioned. - Kral, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2The philosophy is Freedom. That doesn't exclude newbies.
- Artimusbill, on 07/22/2008, -0/+2Rolcol, if the oem box you bought doesn't have drivers for it's installed hardware, you NEED to find another company to buy from. I doubt people who are buying oem computers are doing a whole lot of switching OSs.
/agree on the Live CD thing. Great way to test drive linux. May not be the best as far as speed, but it does give you a good idea of what to expect. - V1ncent, on 07/22/2008, -1/+3LiveCD. End o'story. Article was not good for omitting the easiest and most obvious. K.I.S.S.
- inactive, on 07/22/2008, -0/+1Its sad that a grown man is so concerned with playing games.
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