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13% of developers picking Linux, outpacing Vista

electronista.com — Despite Microsoft's efforts, the majority of developers still aren't writing with Windows Vista in mind, a new study by Evans Data says. Only 8% are specifically coding with Vista in mind, while Linux is actually higher at 13% -- evidence that Microsoft's new OS isn't catching on.

Who dugg this? Made popular Jun 17, 2008

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  • estvir, on 06/17/2008, -40/+370Unbelievably stupid, here are some of the things wrong with this:

    - People don't really targe a specific version of Windows any more, they generally target .Net.
    - Since when do developers suddenly develop for a single version of Windows? Win 98 versions of software was available for some time despite Win 2000 AND Win XP being out.
    - Who did they survey? Oh, a bunch of people (A whole 380, watch out!) who would put up with Evans' spam? How damning.
    - It's worded rather ambiguously.
    - Just because their programs do not use something that is exclusively Vista-only it does not mean they're ignoring Vista, chances are if it works on XP it works on Vista.. and maybe even 2000 too.
    - 13%, that's bigger than 8%, right? Well, add 8 + 49 and you have, wait for it, 57! Guess how much bigger than 13 that is!
    - Look at the reasons why they do not like Vista, basically all of them have to do with the devlopers required to actually have a clue when developing, like not requiring admin access when you shouldn'nt need it.

    And so on.. but hey, it's bashing 'M$' so quick, Digg it up! Who cares about full of rbubsh it is! Why don't you guys just submit a daily story to Digg that says "LOL M$ HAH WINDOZ" and be done with stories like this? Maybe they could treat the story like the podcast section.

    And why the hell does the textbox for comments jump up/down?
  • crackah, on 06/17/2008, -40/+144Ergh yawn. Vista isnt as bad as digg has you believe.
  • din100, on 06/17/2008, -12/+8798% people don’t know how they come up with this %
  • KCorax, on 06/17/2008, -14/+75This article is such FUD. It treats Vista as an entirely new operating system and splits it from XP, even though the primary vector of development is the free-for-all .net framework.

    In order to get fair, we should then split up linux development between the various distros, then amortize for the portion of installations that are used entirely to run an Apache web server and so on.

    Don't give me the "even M$ doesn't use the .net framework" treatment. It's a software vendor platform and it clearly can't and shouldn't be used for the operating system itself. That said almost the entire developer division products (Visual Studio, SQL server, Expression) use it everywhere.
  • Murdats, on 06/17/2008, -3/+63as soon as I saw the 'targeting vista' I assumed this was a very slanted study.

    No one targets vista, they target windows, just like very few people 'target' fedora 9 or ubuntu heron
    now lets compare people who target windows compared to those who target linux.
  • Kingoftherings, on 06/17/2008, -34/+83Great news for the Linux Community. Hopefully we'll see more apps being made, and more bugs being fixed.
  • allenwrench, on 06/17/2008, -8/+45Nobody "targets Vista", they "target Windows". Among Windows flavors Vista pulled in 8% and XP 49%. I was impressed until I saw the figure for XP.
  • christianboutin, on 06/17/2008, -0/+22I'm rooting for Linux as much as it's possible without turning into a fanboy. But my thoughts on that article were pretty much summed up by you. Good show.
  • Murdats, on 06/17/2008, -1/+23"Mac fans, Linux users, Microsoft fans, Nintendo fans, Sony Fans,"

    the fact that the only one there that isnt followed by 'fans' is quite telling.
  • Davers, on 06/17/2008, -5/+26Not to mention the fact that "Vista" is referring to one version of an operating system, whereas "Linux" refers to dozens of operating systems. A fair comparison would be developers coding for "Windows" versus "Linux", or if they really want to say Vista, "Vista vs." a single Linux distro.
  • reisrocks, on 06/17/2008, -3/+21“Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that.”

    Homer Simpson.
  • ButchersBoy, on 06/17/2008, -13/+31I just got a new PC with Vista Ultimate. I like it.
  • Jamminn, on 06/17/2008, -10/+28** mumbles something good about Visual Studio and walks away **
  • Ravatar, on 06/17/2008, -2/+19Visual Studio 2008 was terribly slow before that hotfix. But I'll agree, Visual Studio kicks the hell out of most (if not every) other IDE.
  • earthmansurfer, on 06/17/2008, -3/+20I am a Linux user, but what you said is even clear to me.
    Be careful of statistic people. But, that being said, Linux is really making headway in many areas.
    M.S. really made a mistake by not having a small footprint O.S. for computers like the EE, etc. That is biting them.
  • ultrafez, on 06/17/2008, -4/+20I would have to agree with your mumble there, I like Visual Studio too...
  • AmaDaden, on 06/17/2008, -4/+18As a programmer the difference between Vista and XP is far far FAR greater then the difference between Fedora and Ubuntu. If you write something for one distro by the nature of *nix programing it should work on most other distros. Yes, .NET is a good bridge between the two OSes and nullifies most differences. But that is not the point of this article. The point is they are not THINKING about Vista not that the code will not work on it.

    "Only eight percent of software firms surveyed were specifically CODING WITH VISTA IN MIND, while additional data brought together by CNET indicates that 49 percent are still writing for Windows XP; 13 percent are programming for Linux, according to reports."

    To them Vista is, for whatever reason, not as important as XP. So what I am really seeing from this is that all the old Windows XP coders are not moving on to Vista. The digg title was misleading and clearly showing a Linux bias but that does not invalidate the story.
  • mGARANDEUR1, on 06/17/2008, -4/+18I really cannot tell people to switch over to linux. I've had two distros on my computer: SuSE and Ubuntu and both of them sucked. Open office just isn't as streamlined as the MS Office package.
  • reisrocks, on 06/17/2008, -1/+15Our code compiles and runs on linux.. In fact I'm one of the few developers working in Ubuntu.

    But our target platform is still... Windows.
  • Ravatar, on 06/17/2008, -5/+18That's exactly what I was thinking.

    All my MS work is done in C#/ASP.net now, I touch on C++/CLI very rarely, but even then it's portable enough to work on anything Windows 2000+. I'm not really sure how you "develop for Vista" on .net beyond setting a few application permission requests that you should be doing anyway.

    Garbage FUD article, I'm really curious if they're counting PHP/Perl/Python in the "linux" count.
  • MacParrot, on 06/17/2008, -2/+15Vista WILL get better. Considering the vast amount of software and hardware that Microsoft has to account for, it's amazing that they can put out a new version at all. No OS is without their problems. I'm a Mac guy and I installed Leopard on my kid's G5 iMac and then took it off because their wireless went to complete crap. So until Apple fixes wireless for G5s (the G4 iBook and QS 933 G4 tower I put it on worked without issues), their machine will stay with 10.4.

    Does this sound familar? How many people do we see on digg slamming Vista for some fault it introduced to their computer. Nothing and no one is perfect and I'm sure MS is working very hard on fixing the problems that Vista has. Read the mags, keep up with the reviews, and once your issues are solved, try it again.
  • bentman78, on 06/17/2008, -6/+18I've been running it since november of last year without problems. Like the OS. I also use freebsd as well, but it's a pain to set up the desktop the way you like it.
  • Dotnetsky, on 06/17/2008, -13/+25This came out of a very poorly designed survey by Evans Data, which was immediately picked up on by C-NET and others who are so hungry to find anything that they can try to make newsworthy that they don't even bother to do any fact-checking. Typical anti-Microsoft FUD.
  • aliguana, on 06/17/2008, -4/+16you have to write cross-platform software these days. Windows, Linux, OSX. Or at least leave the framework open enough that someone else could port it easily. Even in the business world, where people develop for Windows environments, there will come a time when the department head decides to go open-source (re French Police etc) and then you're screwed unless you can easily port your systems over.
  • chris9902, on 06/17/2008, -9/+20wtf is this garbage? I laugh about most of the crap posted on digg but this is beyond stupid.

  • lamiaconfitor, on 06/17/2008, -2/+13People who look beyond statistics? Look, I am an atheist, but Ill respect a creationist who THINKS about religion over a blind follower of a sect any day of the week. and you don't need to capitalize atheist, unless it is the first word of a sentence, it is not a religion.
  • aautopsy, on 06/17/2008, -2/+1349+13=62% developers targeting windows. It doesn't change that Linux has 13% of developers (according to this survey) are targeting windows.

    On the other hand, this isn't even the slightest surprising to me. Linux user to dev ratio is obviously a lot lower than windows.
  • tk0680, on 06/17/2008, -0/+11Gotta love articles that still suggest that Vista "may not be catching on" as if they expect widespread gasping and fainting from their readers.
  • Davers, on 06/17/2008, -9/+19Vista's getting FASTER by the day. Since it's release, updates have increased its performance to match XP's.
  • TnTBass, on 06/17/2008, -0/+10Digg makes you believe Vista was as bad as Windows ME. Windows ME was by far worse than any other OS ever created. (I don't think I'm exaggerating at all either).

    The problem with Vista is that it is such a huge disappointment. It promised so much, and just kept failing on those promises. If you ignore everything that it promised, and forget the annoyances, its not a bad OS.

    I've been using Vista since Beta. (I love when people quantify the amount of time they use the OS and consider themselves experts on how great or horrible it is, I just wanted to throw my two cents of obviously meaningless quantifications into my comment) It has came a long way since then, but it still has a long way to come.

    Mostly what you hear on Digg is disappointment. We've all been told Vista will lick our ass and tell us it tastes like ice cream, but all it does is suck our dicks, just like XP, and we don't like the new technique.
  • Ravatar, on 06/17/2008, -3/+13Exactly, apps written (properly) in .net will work for XP/Vista/2003/2008 (and Windows 2000/98/ME if you use .net 2.0) 32-bit and 64-bit out of the box. Not sure what the hell they're referring to when they say "targeting Vista".
  • grimward, on 06/17/2008, -10/+20Estvir, what's also pretty obvious to anyone whose been in corporate IT is that companies are pretty much phasing in Vista at the same pace they phased in XP, that is.. they're doing it very slowly as they both need system stability but they also want the new features. And last I heard, developers work in companies too .. go figure! :O

    So Estvir, you have my digg for tearing this crappy article apart, let's all laugh.. point our fingers and bury this POS.
  • aldableep3, on 06/17/2008, -2/+11you're right.. comparing a specific version of windows to the broad category of linux is retarded
  • BadAsh71, on 06/17/2008, -1/+10I think by "targeting Vista" or "coding with Vista in mind" the intent is that a programmer would intentionally make use of new UI Elements and other features of Vista. I can't see many developers doing that because then they would have to have multiple code branches to ensure compatibility with other, more used versions of Windows.

    I agree, more people target .NET and give less focus to a particular version of Windows. However, if Vista really did have the market share like Microsoft claims, more developers would utilize features of Vista in their applications which isn't happening... using .NET or anything else.
  • Ravatar, on 06/17/2008, -1/+9Yeah I was running OO for a while, but I started missing Outlook and threw on the rest of Office 2007. Haven't looked back since.
  • Lionhart, on 06/17/2008, -0/+8Please tell me I'm not the only one that realizes how hardcore this site rips off of Ars Technica.
  • Murdats, on 06/17/2008, -0/+8I would assume it to be the opposite.

    if you can see the source of a project you like, you can build on and contribute to it.
    if you see a closed source project you like, your only option is to build a competitor to it.
  • AmaDaden, on 06/17/2008, -1/+8@spectre_25gt Very true, but the same is also true for .NET and Java. So if the parent wants to call the .NET platform independent then i will look at *nix apps the same way. I am currently working as a Java programmer and we constantly have platform dependency issues. I have talked to .NET coders and they have said the same. When coded correctly there is no issue but there is always someone who puts in a hacky fix somewhere and mucks it all up.
  • waspbr, on 06/17/2008, -2/+9spoken like a true sheeple, if you don't want to use linux, fine no one will force you but get your facts straight. Linux is just an alternative, cheap and reliable, though if you wanna throw you money away fine by me. After installing and setting up linux machines pretty much run on their own, no fixing required. I've installed ubuntu on my mom' s computer, and unless she's become a geek (which a find to be a little unlikely), her computer just runs and it has been months since I had to touch anything in it.

    though I agree that the article is complete FUD, though I prefer linux, I am not a windows hater, I still dual boot with my trusty XP copy, but Linux is not the joke here buddy, you are.
  • dkitch, on 06/17/2008, -5/+12Rational comments? On my Digg?

    It's more likely than you think
  • Zoltair, on 06/17/2008, -4/+11yeah right....... HAHAHAHA
    I've had FAR fewer problems getting Vista to work on my systems then Linux/UBuntu, 3 days and still working on getting Ubuntu to work right. 1Hr, Vista up and running, no problems, and no cryptic undocumented hack to or edits to some obscure .conf file just to get it to boot. I use both Windows based systems and Linux based system, and there is no doubt Linux is FAR more challenging to get working. So far Vista has been flawless in my applications.

  • secrity, on 06/17/2008, -4/+11I disagree with you about corporations and Vista vs XP. When XP came out there was a bit of resistance, but I don't recall seeing hostility toward XP. Many companies took a go slow and see what happens approach with XP, I am seeing outright resistance and hostility toward Vista.

    I know of companies, including the one that I work for, that have specific plans NOT to install Vista on any corporate computers. The corporate standard distribution that is installed on every new or recyled laptop has XP and Office 2003. Vista and Office 2007 were evaluated and rejected.
  • silverbulletky, on 06/17/2008, -1/+8I'm waiting for someone to answer his question about the text box jumping around...
  • Ravatar, on 06/17/2008, -1/+7The problem is that they don't even know WHY they don't want Vista.

    - Deploying Vista with WIM is a hell of a lot easier than previous methods.
    - Group Policies are WAAAYYY better this time around with Vista. Thousands of new options including better control of removable drives and IO ports.
    - UAC does a decent job once the system is set up properly. GP settings can automatically deny UAC requests so your users don't get prompted when they don't need to be.
    - WinRM kicks the pants off of Remote Desktop
    - Event reporting is kick ass now. You have remote features and support for customizable event queries.
    - Network Access Protection to help prevent virus outbreaks.

    Vista has TONS of features specific to the enterprise
    The list could go on for miles. People who are running Windows Server 2003 servers with 2000/XP clients are doing themselves a disservice by refusing to consider a greatly beneficial update to their infrastructure.
  • inactive, on 06/17/2008, -5/+11but but but Eclipse!!! LOL
  • nephilimx, on 06/17/2008, -1/+7public embarrassment over C#? you shouldnt embarrassed since it pays so well.
  • loker269, on 06/17/2008, -1/+7eww you got logic mixed in with my digg comments....
  • l815, on 06/17/2008, -5/+11This is stupid. Vista is great, Linux is great. Most the open source apps I can't live without work on Vista + Linux, which means there is no "target" OS that I can see. They may favor one OS, but any serious application would most likely be written cross-platform if written for Linux specifically. That's why the Open Source community is so great.

    Stop ragging on Vista
    Stop ragging on Linux

    I don't care about apple :P (no offense, I just don't agree with the monopoly that is worse than Microsoft's)
  • flibuste, on 06/17/2008, -1/+7You are wrong on so many levels, your post becomes funny after a while.

    From DVD burning to games being the "pinnacle of complex applications", going through the "reality of Linux", you're accumulating mistakes and innacuracies.

    The reality is far different from your perception. However it's very real that you seem to know about profit margins, and nothing about softwares and operating systems.

    Please do not try to confuse people.
  • mGARANDEUR1, on 06/17/2008, -2/+8College users sit behind their campus firewall with their laptops and have no idea the security threats that face them. Go and ask a business user about the improved security updates and he/she might disagree with you.
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