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203 Comments
- Filipp0, on 05/31/2009, -19/+249I heard the hospital bill cost her an arm and a leg
- tonicboy, on 05/31/2009, -10/+96The worst part is that this resulted in a legal "battle". How was this a "battle"? It should have been a one-sided massacre of the medical staff involved. How a jury could possibly fail to award her a victory is beyond me. What the article doesn't say though, is why the kidney stone was not treated in the first place and why more was not done when her limbs started turning black. Sure seems like an "emergency room" situation to me, and yet nothing happened until a month later.
- Elsewhere42, on 05/31/2009, -1/+82Holy *****!
- adamroach, on 05/31/2009, -1/+70x 2
- rabidjester, on 05/31/2009, -2/+67Way to go out on a limb with that prediction
- morningmatters, on 05/31/2009, -0/+63Toronto Star sucks as it can't even copy and paste right. Here is the original AP article. It has several extra paragraphs which explained in better detail exactly how did the doctors mess up.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30999530/#storyContinu ...
Kocik, a 30-year veteran of ER medicine, insists she told Dr. Strong over the phone that Lisa Strong likely had a kidney stone. Dr. Strong works for a firm contracted by Lisa Strong's insurance company to make medical decisions if her personal doctor isn't available or chooses not to make the call.
But Kocik didn't write "kidney stone" on her diagnosis report. Asked during the trial if she wished she had written it down, Kocik said: "You better believe I wish I did ... a million times."
Dr. Strong remembers talking with Kocik and there was not a mention of a kidney stone. He also was not told she was in septic shock, so he went with a diagnosis of acute cholecystitis, a gallbladder condition unrelated to the kidneys.
Dr. Strong handled everything by phone, which is common in such cases.
"I did not come in in this particular case because, No. 1, I felt the patient was reasonably stable. I was not given a history that the patient was in septic shock or that she was crashing and dying," he said.
Unnecessary surgery
Kocik insists she stressed the dire condition. She said she expected Dr. Strong to give a few treatment orders and immediately come to the hospital. She also didn't turn the case over to her ER replacement during a shift change because Dr. Strong was calling the shots.
"I needed him to examine and make his own decision," Kocik said. "I wanted for him to come in. I expected him to come in."
But he never did. And Lisa Strong waited hours to undergo unnecessary surgery, which further weakened her. Finally, about 16 hours after she came to the ER, a test revealed the kidney stone that was causing her life-threatening infection. It was removed. - BossKey, on 05/31/2009, -9/+65Today I went to the doctor...
...
...
...FML - Filipp0, on 05/31/2009, -1/+54I heard she got so mad at the doctors that they had to disarm her.
- lordjeebus, on 05/31/2009, -3/+49I'm a physician and I'm impressed that many of you have such strong opinions about the issue - because I read the article and have no idea what actually happened to her. The amputations themselves seem to be the proper response to the unavoidable side effects of vasopressor therapy, which would be the only way to keep her alive during her severe infection (septic shock). The real question is what happened initially to trigger that infection, and what was done about it, and from her description it's not clear at all.
- wkrausmann, on 05/31/2009, -2/+46I've got to hand it to you, that was funny.
- appleofdischord, on 05/31/2009, -2/+40Well, hopefully the new trial will let her keep ahead.
- cmallinson, on 05/31/2009, -8/+46So, they screwed up, messing up her arms and legs, and then charged her $850,000 to take them off? Damn I'm glad I'm in Canada.
- furto, on 05/31/2009, -2/+34Guys giver her a break, she's 'armless.
- Scaryclouds, on 05/31/2009, -2/+31She definitely has a leg up on the competition.
- Nickolassc, on 05/31/2009, -1/+30Then go back to reddit with all the other pretentious *****.
- borez, on 05/31/2009, -3/+30She was stumped by the cost.
- Billions, on 05/31/2009, -0/+26"Measure Twice, Cut Once"
- carl25, on 05/31/2009, -0/+24how the hell can they still expect her to pay them 850k
- FlyingCaveman, on 05/31/2009, -13/+37She waited a month after her limbs started turning black before going back to the emergency room. Its not like she went to the doctor and they accidentally amputated all her limbs.
I'm going to side with the jury on this one. Although I can't blame her entirely.
She could have went to a different hospital, got a second opinion, something. Amputating her limbs may have saved her life, if she'd waited any longer she might be dead, something the article doesn't say. - slayernine, on 05/31/2009, -1/+24because they shouldn't have been rotting in the first place?
- 47f0, on 05/31/2009, -0/+21The not-so-simple part is that there were two physicians and two "care" agencies involved here. The ER physician had to turn over primary to the "phone-it-in" insurance physician. You'd think the insurance company doctor might have been aware of her history of kidney stones, but he still pulled a gall-bladder diagnosis out of his ass without ever having been within a mile of the patient.
In the meantime, if the ER physician overrules the insurance physician, there's a good chance nobody gets paid, and the patient goes into bankruptcy.
Yay for all-profit medicine. - lordjeebus, on 05/31/2009, -1/+22On reading the full story posted above by morningmatters, it makes more sense - proper treatment was delayed on hospital admission and the 2 doctors involved are blaming each other.
- Subduction, on 05/31/2009, -0/+19And that's this week's news from Florida.
- 47f0, on 05/31/2009, -5/+22Wrong - she was IN the hospital for a month. Kidney stone, ER admission, major infection resulting in immediate septic shock. No hospital, even one as incompetent as this one would have discharged her in the middle of a circulatory collapse like that.
But thanks for the medical lecture. While you fail at reading comprehension, it's still good advice. Except for the tiny detail that her limbs were already badly damaged in the initial circulatory failure, and no amount of being discharged to any other facility would have changed that. - 47f0, on 05/31/2009, -1/+18Well, here's what I have a strong opinion about - the hospital handed off primary responsibility to Dr. Strong - a phone-it-in doctor contracted by the patient's insurance company. If the lady had a history of kidney stones, shouldn't her freakin' insurance company have some clue about that, and not pull a gallbladder diagnosis out of the blue?
But thank goodness her insurance company is saving dollars by having phone-in doctors have more say than the physicians on site. - oda1, on 05/31/2009, -2/+18She ain't got no arms or legs.
- pintomp3, on 05/31/2009, -2/+17She's going to kneed plenty of insurance.
- wastelander, on 05/31/2009, -0/+14Its difficult to tell exactly what happened with the little information they provide.
With the fever and severe abdominal pain one would have to assume the obtained some sort of abdominal imaging. Did the ER doc get a CT scan, and if so, what did it show?
Kidney stones themselves, although painful are general not serious. What is serious is when you have an obstructing kidney stone with an infection behind it. Basically you get back-pressure which more or less pump bacteria right into you circulatory system and patients can get very sick very quickly. In this case antibiotics need to get start and urology consulted to relieved the obstruction--either through cystoscopy and ureteral stent or a nephrostomy.
An inflamed gallbladder can also, of course cause abdominal pain--although the location is usually different. With a fever of 106F; however, you wouldn't be thinking ascending cholangitis rather than regular cholycystitis. Here the situation is similar, with an infection behind and obstruction stone and again antibiotics along with relief of the obstruction is essential for treatment.
A CT of the abdoman should have revealed a blockage of the kidney.
For the galbladder, in addition to abdnomalities on the CT you would also expect abnormal liver tests.
Physical exam is, of course, also key in making the diagnosis.
Finally, there is the issue of sepsis. This is generally not a difficult diagnosis. I would like to know what her blood-work showed and what her vitals looked like before they took he to the OR.. was she stable enough to undergo surgery?
There are too many questions.. although it definitely sounds as if someone screwed up royally. - lordjeebus, on 05/31/2009, -0/+13Actually, having read the full version of the article, I think that the physicians are 100% to blame. It's just a question of which one - you'd have to see the medical records to make that determination.
As for the billing question - it should be paid for by the treating physicians' malpractice insurance, in my opinion, as the complications stemmed from some sort of error on their part. - Quach, on 05/31/2009, -2/+15Doctors watching too much House.
- andreo, on 05/31/2009, -1/+14Wait a sec... They screw up her medical treatment and they are still billing her? You would think step one would be making the "medical care" on the house...
- m0laria, on 05/31/2009, -1/+13It doesn't say in the article she was IN the hospital for a month.
- inactive, on 05/31/2009, -7/+19Oh please, walk it off, lady.
- smemily, on 05/31/2009, -0/+11I believe when saying he was glad to be in Canada, he was NOT being sarcastic.
- 47f0, on 05/31/2009, -0/+11No, they didn't come into the hospital carrying hacksaws - in fact, the doctor calling the shots never came in at all. The ER doctor had to hand the case over to another doctor, who was making the diagnosis by phone. Who was the other doctor? Her insurance physician. A guy who just phones it in. He never even laid eyes on the patient.
- draculthemad, on 05/31/2009, -2/+12They cant overturn the verdict and rule what they want.
They can only order a new trial. Doing it also opens the case and the judges actions to automatic scrutiny from a higher court as well. The party that may be getting their victory tossed out can also appeal the decision.
Yes, there is potential for abuse, but there are a lot of checks against that. Its also itself a check against tyranny by majority opinion. I don't have a problem with that.
- nonymous666, on 05/31/2009, -1/+11From reading the reading the full story posted above by morningmatters, the
problem was miscommunication between hospital physicians and insurance company physicians.
So the hospital isn't going to toss out the bill because they're blaming the insurance company for what happened. And the insurance company won't pay the bill because they blame the hospital for what happened. - bobbknight, on 05/31/2009, -2/+12The lawyer for Strong the woman who lost her limbs, tried to make the case to big.
I was a simple case.
I have a kidney stone.
They did not treat me for the kidney stone.
This caused me to get a life and limb threatening infection.
I lost my arms and legs because my kidney stone was not treated.
Simple. - winstonc, on 05/31/2009, -0/+10It wasn't a mistake in surgery. RTFA.
- pstroll, on 05/31/2009, -0/+10"...paging doctor Howard, doctor Fine, doctor Howard"
- grantmoore3d, on 05/31/2009, -2/+12What the ***** is wrong with you country!? Ignoring the controversy around the article... the cost of amputation cannot possibly warrant an $850,000 pricetag! Isn't is bad enough that the person must be amputated in the first place!? US health care is a ***** joke.
- hatetank138, on 05/31/2009, -0/+9I'm not sure you need to say "Hey, what about my kidney stone?" when you start changing colors and drying up.
It's the non-verbal cues, like say wilting or petrification, that could have been picked up on. - caitycat, on 05/31/2009, -0/+8I get the feeling you didn't actually read the article. The error was that her kidney stone was not treated...there was no clerical error causing limbs to be amputed. The limbs had to be amputated because of the resulting tissue death.
- hotshotveggie, on 05/31/2009, -0/+8More detailed story: http://www.wctv.tv/news/headlines/46504537.html
So you dont have to click it:
"Kocik, a 30-year veteran of ER medicine, insists she told Dr. Strong over the phone that Lisa Strong likely had a kidney stone. Dr. Strong works for a firm contracted by Lisa Strong's insurance company to make medical decisions if her personal doctor isn't available or chooses not to make the call.
But Kocik didn't write "kidney stone" on her diagnosis report. Asked during the trial if she wished she had written it down, Kocik said: "You better believe I wish I did ... a million times."
Dr. Strong remembers talking with Kocik and there was no a mention of a kidney stone. He also was not told she was in septic shock, so he went with a diagnosis of acute cholecystitis, a gallbladder condition unrelated to the kidneys.
Dr. Strong handled everything by phone, which is common in such cases.
"I did not come in this particular case because, No. 1, I felt the patient was reasonably stable. I was not given a history that the patient was in septic shock or that she was crashing and dying," he said.
Kocik insists she stressed the dire condition. She said she expected Dr. Strong to give a few treatment orders and immediately come to the hospital. She also didn't turn the case over to her ER replacement during a shift change because Dr. Strong was calling the shots.
"I needed him to examine and make his own decision," Kocik said. "I wanted for him to come in. I expected him to come in." " - ghatid, on 05/31/2009, -1/+9Maybe it's not so good because her husband left her:(
- tonicboy, on 05/31/2009, -1/+9*chuckle* Is it mean of me to enjoy watching someone make a complete ass of himself? RTFA indeed.
- earlvanze, on 05/31/2009, -0/+7Break a leg and go on with the plan!
- brickbat, on 05/31/2009, -1/+8You are a god-damn genius, Gump. It takes sheer brilliance to misunderstand the situation so thoroughly.
- wastelander, on 05/31/2009, -1/+8I don't think she ever left the hospital in that month.
- Lionhart, on 05/31/2009, -1/+8FLORIDA!
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